The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

8slim · Oct 8, 2023

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rodderick said:
The line isn't this horrible in terms of personnel, what gives here? They weren't anywhere near this bad last year either.

Personally I think they are this horrible. Andrews is washed up, Onwenu is bad likely because he’s still hurt, Brown only plays well when he feels like it, and the rest of the line is piecemeal garbage.

They need to replace literally everyone in the top 8.

SMU_Sox · Oct 8, 2023

rodderick said:
The line isn't this horrible in terms of personnel, what gives here? They weren't anywhere near this bad last year either.

That is why reps are so important. Also Mafi can't handle them. Mafi apparently was goodish against Dallas but he was a disaster today.

lexrageorge · Oct 8, 2023

Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Correct.

Just like last game, there's no option. You give him the season and cross your fingers.

Again, I'm cool with them giving him a Patricia-less year to see if he could play a real offense. Now that it's obvious he can't, I'm shaking my head at the decision to not compete for Lamar Jackson's services.

Ravens weren't about to let Jackson go, and they had all the leverage.

lexrageorge · Oct 8, 2023

rodderick said:
The line isn't this horrible in terms of personnel, what gives here? They weren't anywhere near this bad last year either.

Onwenu is still struggling to come back from offseason surgery, which is worrying in several ways. Strange has been similarly struggling with a knee injury suffered the first week of training camp, never a good sign. And he didn't play today anyway. Dave Andrews and Trent Brown are both effectively washed. The rest of the line is a bunch of retreads and/or rookies being asked to play roles they weren't drafted for.

BaseballJones · Oct 8, 2023

Euclis20 said:
Or he knew that the team wasn't a legit super bowl contender this year, and the single most important goal this year was to determine whether or not Mac was the future at QB. If the answer to that question is no (safe to say that answer to that question is no), better to bottom out than to have a mediocre backup come in and pump up the win total by 2-3 games.

Yeah I mean… how do we know that BB isn’t kind of “tanking” by having Mac start? I don’t know. I agree with your take here. Definitely needed this season to really see if Mac could be the guy. I know it’s super easy to react hugely negatively to these last two games but holy smokes it’s been BAAAAAAAAAAD.

72-3 the last two games. Omg.

8slim · Oct 8, 2023

What if Mac played great this season? And we were sitting at, say, 7-2 and he got hurt. Not a season ender, but out for 4 games. We want fucking Zappe to play those games?

We needed a vet backup QB whether Mac was bad *or good*.

Kenny F'ing Powers · Oct 8, 2023

lexrageorge said:
Ravens weren't about to let Jackson go, and they had all the leverage.

He wasn't franchised, he was restricted. With the amount of cap the Patriots have in coming seasons - especially 2024, when the Ravens are almost up against - I'm sure the Patriots could have got creative if they wanted to.

lexrageorge · Oct 8, 2023

Kenny F'ing Powers said:
He wasn't franchised, he was restricted. With the amount of cap the Patriots have in coming seasons - especially 2024, when the Ravens are almost up against - I'm sure the Patriots could have got creative if they wanted to.

Ravens score all of 10 points against a weak Steelers defense, with Lamar averaging 6.2 ypc. Yes, that looks stellar compared to today, but I'm not at all convinced Lamar Jackson is going to be the answer Ravens fans were hoping for.

Deathofthebambino · Oct 8, 2023

lexrageorge said:
Ravens score all of 10 points against a weak Steelers defense, with Lamar averaging 6.2 ypc. Yes, that looks stellar compared to today, but I'm not at all convinced Lamar Jackson is going to be the answer Ravens fans were hoping for.

Yup, and all 10 of those Ravens points came in their first 3 possessions of the game. Their defense was balling out all afternoon, hanging on, while Lamar and the offense did nothing. They let Pittsburgh hang around, and then Pitt scored twice in the 4th, game over.

Lamar Jackson is a great runner, he's not a great QB and good defensive coaches can figure him out.

Kenny F'ing Powers · Oct 8, 2023

lexrageorge said:
Ravens score all of 10 points against a weak Steelers defense, with Lamar averaging 6.2 ypc. Yes, that looks stellar compared to today, but I'm not at all convinced Lamar Jackson is going to be the answer Ravens fans were hoping for.

Unless we end up with one of the top 2 QBs in this draft, we'll most likely make it through all 5 years of Lamars new Ravens contract without getting anything close to his production.

I'm not sure he's the answer either. Unless the question is, "Name a QB significantly better than Mac Jones."

lexrageorge · Oct 8, 2023

Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Unless we end up with one of the top 2 QBs in this draft, we'll most likely make it through all 5 years of Lamars new Ravens contract without getting anything close to his production.

I'm not sure he's the answer either. Unless the question is, "Name a QB significantly better than Mac Jones."

Then a team should never both drafting a QB outside the top 2.

BigJimEd · Oct 8, 2023

Kenny F'ing Powers said:
He wasn't franchised, he was restricted. With the amount of cap the Patriots have in coming seasons - especially 2024, when the Ravens are almost up against - I'm sure the Patriots could have got creative if they wanted to.

He was franchised. Non-exclusive but franchised. Ravens had option to match any offer or receive two first round picks.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Oct 8, 2023

8slim said:
Bill said Mac’s still the starter. Not that they have any other choice.

This is a massive mistake.

Yes, the OL is terrible and not helping him at all and his WRs are underwhelming. But Mac is broken. His mechanics, his footwork, and most importantly his decision-making are not NFL caliber and have not improved one iota. In short he's not an NFL player and should be treated accordingly.

I'd rather they roll with anyone else at this point. Zappe is terrible too, but Cunningham at least can show some running ability. I'd rather roll the dice with anyone else but Mac at this point, because Mac stinks.

Time to Mo Vaughn · Oct 8, 2023

8slim said:
What if Mac played great this season? And we were sitting at, say, 7-2 and he got hurt. Not a season ender, but out for 4 games. We want fucking Zappe to play those games?

We needed a vet backup QB whether Mac was bad *or good*.

If they were 7-2 with Mac, they'd probably go 4-0 with Zappe in those games.

Kenny F'ing Powers · Oct 8, 2023

BigJimEd said:
He was franchised. Non-exclusive but franchised. Ravens had option to match any offer or receive two first round picks.

Which was my point about getting creative with the cap space they had in 2024 compared to the lack of capspace the Ravens had.

Cellar-Door · Oct 8, 2023

8slim said:
What if Mac played great this season? And we were sitting at, say, 7-2 and he got hurt. Not a season ender, but out for 4 games. We want fucking Zappe to play those games?

We needed a vet backup QB whether Mac was bad *or good*.

Who are we talking about? People wildly overrate the veteran backups available who are willing to join mediocre teams who won't let them compete to start. Also... They'd be is a similar situation to most teams.. Your starting QB goes down you're generally screwed unless the team is loaded

cornwalls@6 · Oct 8, 2023

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
This is a massive mistake.

Yes, the OL is terrible and not helping him at all and his WRs are underwhelming. But Mac is broken. His mechanics, his footwork, and most importantly his decision-making are not NFL caliber and have not improved one iota. In short he's not an NFL player and should be treated accordingly.

I'd rather they roll with anyone else at this point. Zappe is terrible too, but Cunningham at least can show some running ability. I'd rather roll the dice with anyone else but Mac at this point, because Mac stinks.

This is all true, but what’s your goal for the season at this point? Win 4-5 games, and be marginally more entertaining in the process? The season is gone. Ride it out with Mac. “Tank” organically, and start the rebuild in the off season.

Seels · Oct 8, 2023

The discussion about Grier Zappe and Cunningham misses the point. This team is not winning games with any of them. It does not in any way help them to have Zappe play 10% better than Mac (even if that were to happen). None of those guys are the answer. Mac almost certainly isn't either, but those guys definitely aren't (though I'm open to Cunningham being explored at a point).

There's functionally no point to Zappe even being on the roster. Yea - he doesn't get snaps. But his upside is like...maybe a poor man's Sam Darnold? What's the point

IdiotKicker · Oct 8, 2023

Seels said:
The discussion about Grier Zappe and Cunningham misses the point. This team is not winning games with any of them. It does not in any way help them to have Zappe play 10% better than Mac (even if that were to happen). None of those guys are the answer. Mac almost certainly isn't either, but those guys definitely aren't (though I'm open to Cunningham being explored at a point).

There's functionally no point to Zappe even being on the roster. Yea - he doesn't get snaps. But his upside is like...maybe a poor man's Sam Darnold? What's the point

Beyond that - you’re not going to see what Cunningham has behind this OL. “Hey our OL is shit and is giving up pressure on half the plays. What a great chance to develop a new young QB who has never played in an NFL game!”

E5 Yaz · Oct 8, 2023

It's as though some expect that every other facet of the offense will improve if they just move on from Jones

8slim · Oct 8, 2023

E5 Yaz said:
It's as though some expect that every other facet of the offense will improve if they just move on from Jones

Yup. Sometimes in college you can go from a pocket QB to a mobile QB and see an uptick in offensive performance, even when you have a bad line and WRs. But that’s not gonna happen in the pros.

dirtynine · Oct 8, 2023

Zappe, who cares. Cunningham would be more interesting to watch and have the same effect on the outcome, I imagine. But none of it really matters.

azsoxpatsfan · Oct 8, 2023

I think a lot of the desire to see Grier or Cunningham or Zappe is that the team is going to be bad either way, but people are sick of being this bad with Mac and would rather be this bad with anyone else. That’s where I am. Zappe is an atrocious QB, but I would easily have more interest watching Grier or Cunningham rather than Mac, even if the result is the same

Seels · Oct 8, 2023

Why? The version of the Pats that is competitive next won't be led by Grier or Cunningham, so why bother?

Rearranging chairs on Titanic

BigSoxFan · Oct 8, 2023

Seels said:
Why? The version of the Pats that is competitive next won't be led by Grier or Cunningham, so why bother?

Rearranging chairs on Titanic

People are bothering because watching Mac is not enjoyable at all. Watching the other guys might be 1-2% more enjoyable. In the end, none of it ultimately matters but watching Mac is a miserable experience. So, I’d like to watch a different kind of miserable experience.

azsoxpatsfan · Oct 8, 2023

BigSoxFan said:
People are bothering because watching Mac is not enjoyable at all. Watching the other guys might be 1-2% more enjoyable. In the end, none of it ultimately matters but watching Mac is a miserable experience. So, I’d like to watch a different kind of miserable experience.

Exactly. It for sure is rearranging chairs on the titanic and won’t actually lead to wins, but watching Mac is fucking painful. Maybe someone else will at least occasionally do something fun

Awesome Fossum · Oct 8, 2023

You also never know until you see. Cunningham probably isn't going to amount to anything, but it's not a 0% chance. This is more like saying, why bother grabbing onto a piece of flotsam as the Titanic sinks? You're going to die of hypothermia anyway.

Petagine in a Bottle · Oct 8, 2023

They’ve lost the last two games by a combined score of 72-3. I have a hard time seeing how it could possibly get any worse.

rodderick · Oct 8, 2023

The thing with Mac is that I'm kinda done with the whole "feeling sorry for myself" vibe he carries around. Honestly. It's starting to bother me a whole lot. Would rather have a guy who throws a stupid pick and starts hitting himself in the helmet than this "oh geez, I suck, golly, why can't things go right for me?" vibe he exudes.

Was happy enough to yell at coaches and roll his eyes in response to play calls last year, now that they have an established OC he's looking like Hardy Har Har.

CoffeeNerdness · Oct 8, 2023

Given the line play what are the odds of Mac making through the next 12 games without getting injured? 25%?

DennyDoyle'sBoil · Oct 8, 2023

Mac is the best QB on the roster, so he starts. It’s not complicated. If Bill had a better QB on the roster, he probably would start him.

genoasalami · Oct 8, 2023

TB12 covered for a lot of questionable draft picks/roster moves. Now, bad personnel decisions matter. Injuries have made a sub par roster even worse. Do you trust BB to rebuild the roster? There’s no quick fix.

ShaneTrot · Oct 8, 2023

I think you bench Mac to tell the team that his play is unacceptable and is actively hurting the team. Does his line suck? Yes. Do the receivers suck? Yes. But they have always have had a culture of accountability, his turnovers are destroying their chance to win.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Oct 8, 2023

The bad OL and WRs doesn’t excuse the horrible decisions he’s making. Two weeks in a row he’s thrown a Pick 6 that he had no earthly business throwing.

I’m tired of watching him suck. The other guys might suck too but watching them suck might at least be interesting for a while.

Harry Hooper · Oct 8, 2023

DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Mac is the best QB on the roster, so he starts. It’s not complicated. If Bill had a better QB on the roster, he probably would start him.

That was the justification for Cam Newton's starts too. It's a bad place to be.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Oct 8, 2023

Harry Hooper said:
That was the justification for Cam Newton's starts too. It's a bad place to be.

Cam’s starts were roughly 3 billion times easier to watch than this season’s from Mac.

twibnotes · Oct 8, 2023

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Cam’s starts were roughly 3 billion times easier to watch than this season’s from Mac.

which is really saying something bc they were brutal

NomarsFool · Oct 8, 2023

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Cam’s starts were roughly 3 billion times easier to watch than this season’s from Mac.

I don’t know. I think Mac can at least throw a screen pass.

sezwho · Oct 8, 2023

NomarsFool said:
I don’t know. I think Mac can at least throw a screen pass.

He couldn’t even toss it to Rham today. Sad difference is they’ve ‘coached/developed’ him into this, where Cam looked like he was heaving paint cans day 1. Both situations also sadly throw plenty of shade at a GM/HC.

PC Drunken Friar · Oct 8, 2023

ShaneTrot said:
I think you bench Mac to tell the team that his play is unacceptable and is actively hurting the team. Does his line suck? Yes. Do the receivers suck? Yes. But they have always have had a culture of accountability, his turnovers are destroying their chance to win.

A full game of Zappe and this team may be literally the worst offensive performance of the last 30 years. (Weather conditions are exempt)

SMU_Sox · Oct 8, 2023

We’re already at worst offensive performance level though. In terms of EPA they are 32nd/32nd.

schillzilla · Oct 8, 2023

SMU_Sox said:
View attachment 72233

We’re already at worst offensive performance level though. In terms of EPA they are 32nd/32nd.

So we literally have nothing to lose by trying someone else. Last is last. Will it help? Probably not, but we have seen enough of this movie

8slim · Oct 8, 2023

schillzilla said:
So we literally have nothing to lose by trying someone else. Last is last. Will it help? Probably not, but we have seen enough of this movie

Head coaches don’t think that way though. They won’t try something just to try it. Bill certainly isn’t going to do that.

ShaneTrot · Oct 8, 2023

PC Drunken Friar said:
A full game of Zappe and this team may be literally the worst offensive performance of the last 30 years. (Weather conditions are exempt)

You apparently did not watch the game today.

AlNipper49 · Oct 8, 2023

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
The bad OL and WRs doesn’t excuse the horrible decisions he’s making. Two weeks in a row he’s thrown a Pick 6 that he had no earthly business throwing.

I’m tired of watching him suck. The other guys might suck too but watching them suck might at least be interesting for a while.

I’m a Mac apologist in the sense it’s really tough to find a QB and if you have someone decent it’s worth it to develop it versus going to get a retread to do the same thing.

With that said, you give him a lot of rope and at this point of his career, the results and that if you want to keep him it will be dealing with overpaying for a position that has to be great or bad enough to back into a high draft position.

There are Brock Purdys out there. I do not know who they are but BB and the team should have a very large data set on who to look at. Mac isn’t the long term answer, this season ain’t ending in a SB and those things give them a very enviable position of taking on risk with almost no downside that doesn’t already exist. Cunningham or maybe 20 other QBs could at least give a higher percentage chance of finding upside out there.

We know what Jones’ ceiling is at this point. Finding out more at this point is just pushing a decision out rather than making a decision.

caesarbear · Oct 9, 2023

The value in seeing someone, anyone other than Mac at starting QB, is the mentality of leadership the role is supposed to have and he clearly lacks. I don't care if Zappe or whoever doesn't have the talent in practice or the arm to make highlight throws in game. I want to see how this offense responds to new leadership under center. I'm not expecting a Brady-to-Wiggins style elevation, but I want to see this offense perform mentally without Mac.

GPO Man · Oct 9, 2023

Any chance the Pats swing a trade for another QB, a solid backup type?

rodderick · Oct 9, 2023

GPO Man said:
Any chance the Pats swing a trade for another QB, a solid backup type?

At best you'd be getting a guy like Case Keenum and it would take him about four weeks to be able to perform at least adequately in the offense. Gotta roll with what they have.

Kenny F'ing Powers · Oct 9, 2023

GPO Man said:
Any chance the Pats swing a trade for another QB, a solid backup type?

To what end? The schedule is brutal, the teams 2 best defenders are injured, and the other offensive personnel are pretty bad.

I'm not sure why people are rooting to see anyone else at QB. Give me the top pick in the draft, please.

IdiotKicker · Oct 9, 2023

A new QB this year does not make this team competitive. Like, Mac can be not the guy and the offense can need a total talent overhaul at the same time. Because you don’t average a net of 4.8 points points per game on offense because of a bad QB. I mean, lots of teams have bad QBs. This current stretch is historically bad, and that’s a team effort.

The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

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