When does a play end?So if the ball is in the air, it’s a first? Dumb.
When does a play end?So if the ball is in the air, it’s a first? Dumb.
I suppose, but that would be considered a defenseless receiver head shot there. I think it’s a fairly clear line. He was trying to break up the play.I don't know -- where do you draw the line? What if Weddle grabbed him by the throat 5 seconds later? What he did didn't affect the play.
The reason what he did was a personal foul wasn’t because it was late; it’s because he hit a defenseless receiver in the head. If he still meets the criteria for defenseless, then imo the play shouldn’t be over.I don't know -- where do you draw the line? What if Weddle grabbed him by the throat 5 seconds later? What he did didn't affect the play.
Right, but not after an incomplete fourth down pass.If it was just late, but I feel like that was to the head of a defenseless receiver. That normally isn’t called that way.
Play is over when the ball hits the ground. Incomplete.I see it, but what if the ball is still in the air somewhere, even if not close to anyone. When is the play over?
I understand it's right by the way the rule is written. I'm saying Weddle didn't walk up 10 seconds later and smack the guy. The foul occurred because Weddle was making a move that started when the ball was live.Why? The hit in no way interfered with the play. You rarely see it timed like this, but it's the right call.
Really? Defenseless receiver calls aren’t normally dead ball.Right, but not after an incomplete fourth down pass.
And the threat of the hit may influenced the receiver's ability to make the catch. Ruling it after the play gives TB the benefit of the foul which was to try to break up the pass.Weddle started to make his play when the ball was live. He made that play as part of thinking he might need to dislodge the ball. It's part of the play.
But Arians is likely pissed, so I'm okay.
This is where I’m at. It was a continuation of the play and the wr route. It’s not like the players were running off the field and a scuffle started. But whateverI guess I get it but that seems like it’s part of the play. If the Rams guy was taunting him and drew a flag it makes more sense.
This is where I fall on this.What’s the difference between that and roughing the passer? Stupid rule
Because it normally isn't after a 4th down.If it was just late, but I feel like that was to the head of a defenseless receiver. That normally isn’t called that way.
Yes, if the ball is still in play. That ball was on the ground before the hit. It's an objective standard.Really? Defenseless receiver calls aren’t normally dead ball.
Collinsworth is reading this thread.So if the hit had occurred before the ball hit the ground (a split second earlier), the ball would still have been live and it would have been first down Bucs.
Perhaps after the whistle?Exactly. Where would you draw the line?
Change of possession after the incompletion, are you proposing a time limit on what is a dead ball?
Any defenseless receiver hit should be part of the play imo. I think it’s gonna be pretty obvious when these happen.When does a play end?
I believe you all but that’s a shitty rule then. Free reign to take head shots at whoever you want if it’s fourth down.Yes, if the ball is still in play. That ball was on the ground before the hit. It's an objective standard.
Well, the whistle should blow when the ball hits the ground and there's been no penalty prior to it falling incomplete, as per the actual rules.Perhaps after the whistle?
That's fine. So was the tuck rule, maybe. But that is the rule.I believe you all but that’s a shitty rule then. Free reign to take head shots at whoever you want if it’s fourth down.
Sure, but the foul didn't actually occur until the ball was dead. The hit in no way impacted Evans' ability to catch the ball - we know this because the ball was on the ground before the hit occurred.I understand it's right by the way the rule is written. I'm saying Weddle didn't walk up 10 seconds later and smack the guy. The foul occurred because Weddle was making a move that started when the ball was live.
Roughing the passer, by definition, means the ball is gone.What’s the difference between that and roughing the passer? Stupid rule
Offensive holding is offset by DPI, yet the DPI can only happen after the offensive holding has occurred.Always wondered why the roughing the passer on an INT undid the INT especially in light of the application here
makes perfect sense to me given it had nothing to do with the incompletion and the play is over but seems inconsistent
Thank you for your input.After the famous tuck rule game, it is a bit unseemly for TB fans to complain too much about rigorous interpretation of rules ... that seem to violate common sense.
what is shaky there is the incentives—if you’re a defender in fourth down you might as well try to kill a receiver who has a line on a catch. If you knock ball out too win. If you hit him and ball has been dropped you have 50/50 shot you only lose yards. That’s not the incentives NFL wants in that playChange of possession after the incompletion, are you proposing a time limit on what is a dead ball?
Well, not perfectly.Stafford managing the play clock well.
To be fair, there was a penalty called...just not the one folks wanted.I believe you all but that’s a shitty rule then. Free reign to take head shots at whoever you want if it’s fourth down.
Only if you don't care about giving up 15 yards and potentially being fined or ejectedI believe you all but that’s a shitty rule then. Free reign to take head shots at whoever you want if it’s fourth down.
95% of fouls have no penalty at all if yardage is of no concern.what is shaky there is the incentives—if you’re a defender in fourth down you might as well try to kill a receiver who has a line on a catch. If you knock ball out too win. If you hit him and ball has been dropped you have 50/50 shot you only lose yards. That’s not the incentives NFL wants in that play
But the penalty is meaningless if possession changes (for the most part). You can actively try to injure guys.To be fair, there was a penalty called...just not the one folks wanted.