The bench thread

nvalvo

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He's throwing out 67% of the baserunners in Portland!! Sweet!

He's not listed in Soxprospects' top 60. Hitting stats look middling. What's his profile?
Bats switch, okay hitter for a young catcher? There's not much in terms of write-ups online — Savin already linked the SP one. He hasn't really been a prospect, but I had been concerned about our depth at the position, so I noticed his hot streak and promotion the last few weeks.
 

Cesar Crespo

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After tonight's game, Holt is slashing .327/.389/.490. I was on board with moving him but he's proving me wrong so far. Still dealing with really SSS.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Holt's recent streak is reminiscent of vintage BROCKHOLT...8-game hitting streak with a .455/.455/.697 slash line. At the same time, Nunez has come back from his three days off for a tweak in his knee hitting .222/.276/.259 (buoyed by one 3 for 4 game in Oakland). Perhaps once Bogaerts is back, Holt will get more starts at 2B. At least until the hot streak subsides.
 

Unin10D

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I wouldn't be shocked in Nunez catches the return flight to the DL when Xander comes back. He looks like he could use a week or two off to try and get his knee right
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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After tonight's game, Holt is slashing .327/.389/.490. I was on board with moving him but he's proving me wrong so far. Still dealing with really SSS.
Me too!

His defense still isn’t as good as Lin’s, but Holt has certainly done enough with the stick in Bogaerts’ absence to justify staying on the roster.

Hopefully, the team will send Nunez to the 10-day when Bogaerts is activated. Because he’s definitely playing hobbled.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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Holt's recent streak is reminiscent of vintage BROCKHOLT...8-game hitting streak with a .455/.455/.697 slash line. At the same time, Nunez has come back from his three days off for a tweak in his knee hitting .222/.276/.259 (buoyed by one 3 for 4 game in Oakland). Perhaps once Bogaerts is back, Holt will get more starts at 2B. At least until the hot streak subsides.
I wouldn't be shocked in Nunez catches the return flight to the DL when Xander comes back. He looks like he could use a week or two off to try and get his knee right
I was thinking the same thing while watching the games the last two nights (with Nunez getting thrown out easily at home) - When X comes back, Holt to 2B and Nunez to DL. With Lin also in the mix at 2B. At this point< I'd rather see either Holt or Lin in the lineup over Nunez.
 

geoduck no quahog

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At what point of production does 3B defense supersede offense? Does Devers need to hit like Sandoval to be benched in favor of...(who?)

I think any OPS above league-average (or 700) justifies Devers learning on the job. Anything lower and I, for one, would like to see some bench involvement - even if only for late inning defense.

\Panic\
 

In my lifetime

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At what point of production does 3B defense supersede offense? Does Devers need to hit like Sandoval to be benched in favor of...(who?)

I think any OPS above league-average (or 700) justifies Devers learning on the job. Anything lower and I, for one, would like to see some bench involvement - even if only for late inning defense.

\Panic\
Please not this rabbit hole. Devers is far from a major problem especially in light of the fact that the only rostered player who is a better fielder at 3B is Lin and currently Nunez is so terrible in the field, that getting him out is preferable imo.
 

trekfan55

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Nuñez at 2b and Devers at 3b is clearly a liability. In one of the Oakland games a ball was hit right at Nuñez who was "shifted" and he still missed it. They don't lose the first Toronto game with Adrian Beltre playing 3b.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Actually they would since Beltre is currently on the DL and is 40 years old. Adrian Beltre has not played for the Sox in 8 years. Could we stop pining for him. Beltre is not walking through that door.
 

sean1562

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Is this where we talk about Moreland's great start to the season? If a lot of this team's underperformace really was toed to playing through injuries last season, that has to be colossally bad management. Starting to look like a pretty solid asset on the team, and not really that expensive. Maybe DD had a reason for locking him up early for 2 years? None of Duda, Morrison or even Alonso are playing all that well so far, Alonso clearly the best of the bunch with an OPS of .783.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Is this where we talk about Moreland's great start to the season?
It's a pretty typical Moreland start:

Career line for April: .267/.338/.464.
2018 line for April: .273/.339/.473.

If he's true to career form, he'll be even a little better in May, and then hit the skids in June and July. If he's still got an OPS over .800 on August 1, that'll definitely be something to talk about.
 

Adrian's Dome

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It's a pretty typical Moreland start:

Career line for April: .267/.338/.464.
2018 line for April: .273/.339/.473.

If he's true to career form, he'll be even a little better in May, and then hit the skids in June and July. If he's still got an OPS over .800 on August 1, that'll definitely be something to talk about.
I don't know where you're getting those numbers from, Moreland's line after yesterday's win (the last game in April) was .305/.373/.559.
 

sean1562

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Mitch Moreland is a bench player, why is it such a bad post? do we need to go back to the FA thread about his signing, with no posts since what, January? why does it matter?
 

rhswanzey

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Is this where we talk about Moreland's great start to the season? If a lot of this team's underperformace really was toed to playing through injuries last season, that has to be colossally bad management. Starting to look like a pretty solid asset on the team, and not really that expensive. Maybe DD had a reason for locking him up early for 2 years?
I'll admit that I was not thrilled about either Moreland signing, 2017 or 2018. I felt like giving Moreland 2 years this offseason was a little like giving Chris Young 2 years, where I understand the player is a good fit, but also wonder why we have to overpay for a part of the market that is kind of falling out. You also can't count on the same floor as the veteran player ages into year 2 of the deal.

That was Moreland's line going into last night's game. Which shows you how volatile rate numbers are for part-time players at this time of year.
None of Duda, Morrison or even Alonso are playing all that well so far, Alonso clearly the best of the bunch with an OPS of .783.
I think reading into April numbers for a bunch of established veterans is where you lose readers, because it was also pointed out that one decent game shot Moreland's triple slash up significantly, and we have to be cautious about overreacting to noise.

I would also expect that the front office decided that Moreland's defensive value as a complement to Hanley gave him an edge over a number of the other lower tier 1B available this winter who signed at a comparable AAV. I wouldn't take any of those guys in the 9th inning of a 1 run road game over Moreland, would you?

It's huge to have the option of starting Moreland regularly when he's hot (or someone at an corner IF/OF spot is injured), or to relegate him to the Malphabet role when he's not needed much on offense.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm not pining for Bryce Brentz, but a player of his ilk would look good on our bench right now. This team desperately needs a RHH OF that isn't JD. The team as a whole is hitting .236/.290/.380 vs lefties and .277/.342/.480 vs R. Getting Nunez out of the lineup when Pedroia comes back will help a little bit but Ben10 and JBJ have also offered nothing against lefties either. Respectively, Nunez, Ben10 and JBJ have an OPS of .384, .479 and .227 this season.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/team/stats/batting/_/name/bos/split/31

It's pretty interesting since quite a few guys are absolutely mashing lefties too. I know a lot of this is SSS, but those are some extreme splits. As a team, their OPS is 152 points higher vs R.

The only OF in the minors who fits the description of what the Redsox needs is Rusney Castillo and there is 0% chance he is getting called up. The only other player I can think of in the system is Blake Swihart. Kinda makes you wonder why he's even on the roster when they won't try him out at 2 positions of need.

I can't imagine a platoon bat costing much though I'm not sure what players are available. With the way JBJ is playing, we could need a full time OF come July anyway, but I don't see them replacing him even if he is 2014 levels of bad.
 

MikeM

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Keeping Swihart over Brentz certainly doesn't appear to make much sense in hindsight, especially with Bradley entering the year as such a big question mark and given Ben10's struggles against LHP isn't something coming out of left field.

Not pining or anything either, but I'd like that one back.
 

bosockboy

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Keeping Swihart over Brentz certainly doesn't appear to make much sense in hindsight, especially with Bradley entering the year as such a big question mark and given Ben10's struggles against LHP isn't something coming out of left field.

Not pining or anything either, but I'd like that one back.
He'd be pretty easy to get back. If not him, someone very similar.
 

grimshaw

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It's really surprising how little talent they have with right handed hitting outfielders. Castillo is obviously there but will never see the light of day.

Barfield, Danny Mars, and Tate Matheny are it between AA and AAA and they are all long shots to even make the majors.

I would work Travis in LF to see if he can be passable now that he has been activated.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Not sure if this is the appropriate thread but reading the last couple of posts and some of the Swihart posts in the catching thread raised a question in my mind that I couldn't figure out from Googling - if a team and a player on the 40-man roster both agree to move that player to the minor leagues, does the player still have to be DFA'd? From everything I've read it seems like the answer is "yes," which seems like an oversight on the Players Union's part given that if both player and team think going down to the minors is worthwhile it seems kind of dumb not to allow that.

And, if I'm wrong and there is a provision allowing for that, I would think it would be in Swihart's best interest to assent to such a move - I can't imagine he's particularly thrilled riding the bench day-in, day-out instead of getting some actual game action (at C, OF or even IF) in AAA.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Not sure if this is the appropriate thread but reading the last couple of posts and some of the Swihart posts in the catching thread raised a question in my mind that I couldn't figure out from Googling - if a team and a player on the 40-man roster both agree to move that player to the minor leagues, does the player still have to be DFA'd? From everything I've read it seems like the answer is "yes," which seems like an oversight on the Players Union's part given that if both player and team think going down to the minors is worthwhile it seems kind of dumb not to allow that.

And, if I'm wrong and there is a provision allowing for that, I would think it would be in Swihart's best interest to assent to such a move - I can't imagine he's particularly thrilled riding the bench day-in, day-out instead of getting some actual game action (at C, OF or even IF) in AAA.
Yes. They could fake an injury and give him some rehab games tho.
 

Cesar Crespo

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No, no they couldn't.
Yes was to the part that they can't send him down to the minors without DFAing him.

And people get phantom injuries a lot. It doesn't really matter because I don't see him agreeing to an injury when some team would give him a real shot in the majors.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Has this question been put to Cora? "The team overall has really struggled against LHs. Is this a problem area that's been identified and, if so, are there solutions or different approaches being considered?"
 

chawson

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Brentz is striking out in 33 percent of his PAs for the Las Vegas 51s. I can’t imagine how he’d help.

The first order of business is getting JBJ back on track.

What would folks here think of a trade for Mark Canha? Not seeing a lot of other candidates on non-contending teams that work. Canha hits lefties well and is a good 4th OF/Moreland platoon for 2019. He’s getting squeezed out of an A’s outfield rotation of Fowler, Pinder, Joyce, Powell, Piscotty, Barreto, and Mateo (and Smolinski, who it seems they’re done with). He’s a FA in 2022 and arb-eligible next year. I can’t imagine Johnson, a FA in 2024, wouldn’t get it done.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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A deal like that for someone like Canha would make some sense (especially if the guy has an option remaining). Canha himself is playing well and crushing LHs this year in a small sample size, but he has actually struggled against LHs (.530 OPS) in a slightly less small sample during his MLB career.
 

chawson

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A deal like that for someone like Canha would make some sense (especially if the guy has an option remaining). Canha himself is playing well and crushing LHs this year in a small sample size, but he has actually struggled against LHs (.530 OPS) in a slightly less small sample during his MLB career.
Canha does have options, fwiw, though I’m not sure how many. You’re right to point out that his productive 2015 season was better against RHP.

Sorry to idly speculate on trade targets. If the right fit is someone who can play the outfield, hit lefties, isn’t cost-prohibitive and plays for a non-contender, the options seem really slim. From what I can see, there’s Canha, Hunter Renfroe, Steve Pearce, Sean Rodriguez or Keon Broxton. Or Manny Margot if he’s lost his job to Franchy Cordero.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Canha does have options, fwiw, though I’m not sure how many. You’re right to point out that his productive 2015 season was better against RHP.

Sorry to idly speculate on trade targetsIf the right fit is someone who can play the outfield, hit lefties, isn’t cost-prohibitive and plays for a non-contender, the options seem really slim. From what I can see, there’s Canha, Hunter Renfroe, Steve Pearce, Sean Rodriguez or Keon Broxton. Or Manny Margot if he’s lost his job to Franchy Cordero.
Manny Margot is still 23 years old and would probably cost a decent amount to acquire.
 

chawson

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Manny Margot is still 23 years old and would probably cost a decent amount to acquire.
Surely, and especially from us. I was half-kidding—doubt Preller would wanna sign off on such a public self-own.
 

MikeM

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Brentz is striking out in 33 percent of his PAs for the Las Vegas 51s. I can’t imagine how he’d help.
Yeah Brentz is striking out a lot, but there is at least the .385/.467/.808 slash line against LHP though. I have an easier time imagining how that might be able to help then I do with our current bench configuration.

Plus as you pointed out, it probably is slim pickings out there.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yeah Brentz is striking out a lot, but there is at least the .385/.467/.808 slash line against LHP though. I have an easier time imagining how that might be able to help then I do with our current bench configuration.

Plus as you pointed out, it probably is slim pickings out there.
He also has a much lower K rate and a much higher walk rate vs Lefties his entire career. He has a completely different approach vs lefties.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Kinda makes you wonder why he's even on the roster when they won't try him out at 2 positions of need.
And just like that, he's playing DH vs a L today while the team sits JBJ. You'd have to think he's probably a better OF than JD but I guess we don't actually know that and JD wants to play defense.
 

AB in DC

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Pedroia's upcoming return raises some interesting questions. Assuming no one goes on the DL, the Sox don't have very good options:

1) DFA Nunez -- This seems very risky until we know that Pedroia's knee can hold up. Cora clearly doesn't trust Holt/Swihart to play 2B on a regular basis, so what happens if Pedey needs a few days off until he's back to normal?

2) DFA Swihart -- This has been beaten to death in other threads, but Vazquez off to a lousy start and Leon looking like nothing more than a replacement-level player, this seems like a bad idea.

3) Send Holt to Pawtucket briefly -- Only because he's the only one left with any options. He's hitting well enough so that this wouldn't make sense otherwise, but it could buy some time to see Pedroia on the field before having to DFA Nunez team

4) Go with a five-man bench, reduce pitching staff from 12 to 11 (Poyner going down to Pawtucket) -- This seems less than ideal with ERod and Pomeranz unable to pitch deep into ballgames. But perhaps Wright and BJohnson can soak up some innings.
 

Adrian's Dome

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Pedroia's upcoming return raises some interesting questions. Assuming no one goes on the DL, the Sox don't have very good options:

1) DFA Nunez -- This seems very risky until we know that Pedroia's knee can hold up. Cora clearly doesn't trust Holt/Swihart to play 2B on a regular basis, so what happens if Pedey needs a few days off until he's back to normal?

2) DFA Swihart -- This has been beaten to death in other threads, but Vazquez off to a lousy start and Leon looking like nothing more than a replacement-level player, this seems like a bad idea.

3) Send Holt to Pawtucket briefly -- Only because he's the only one left with any options. He's hitting well enough so that this wouldn't make sense otherwise, but it could buy some time to see Pedroia on the field before having to DFA Nunez team

4) Go with a five-man bench, reduce pitching staff from 12 to 11 (Poyner going down to Pawtucket) -- This seems less than ideal with ERod and Pomeranz unable to pitch deep into ballgames. But perhaps Wright and BJohnson can soak up some innings.
It's #4 and it's not really a question. The team isn't going to burn assets in order to keep Poyner around.
 

grimshaw

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It's #4 and it's not really a question. The team isn't going to burn assets in order to keep Poyner around.
I don't think 11 pitchers is sustainable.. Especially with 11 more straight games ending with 4 in Houston coming up. You can abuse Wright to a certain degree, but Johnson really can't be used that way effectively.

More logically you lock in to a bullpen with no reliever having options and Thornburg still in AAA. I just can't see them or any major league team for that matter setting themselves up that way.

DD has been discussing Swihart with other teams. I think that or someone getting DL'd is far likelier.
 
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EdRalphRomero

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Seems like a DL trip for Nunez makes the most sense right? I mean clearly the guy has been playing hurt. I get that it is weird that he is only DL'ed when a better option is available, but that doesn't change the fact that Nunez is hurt and probably could use a couple weeks of rest and treatment.
 

RIrooter09

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Seems like a DL trip for Nunez makes the most sense right? I mean clearly the guy has been playing hurt. I get that it is weird that he is only DL'ed when a better option is available, but that doesn't change the fact that Nunez is hurt and probably could use a couple weeks of rest and treatment.
Cora playing an ineffective/injured Nunez over a productive Holt has been one of the biggest mysteries of the season so far. Especially against RHP.
 

chawson

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Cora playing an ineffective/injured Nunez over a productive Holt has been one of the biggest mysteries of the season so far. Especially against RHP.
Yes, except the last part — Núñez hits better against right-handed pitching and Holt is better against left-.
 

grimshaw

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Seems like a DL trip for Nunez makes the most sense right? I mean clearly the guy has been playing hurt. I get that it is weird that he is only DL'ed when a better option is available, but that doesn't change the fact that Nunez is hurt and probably could use a couple weeks of rest and treatment.
Cora nixed that idea in his EEI interview yesterday as well as optioning JBJ.
 

soxeast

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Pedroia's upcoming return raises some interesting questions. Assuming no one goes on the DL, the Sox don't have very good options:

1) DFA Nunez -- This seems very risky until we know that Pedroia's knee can hold up. Cora clearly doesn't trust Holt/Swihart to play 2B on a regular basis, so what happens if Pedey needs a few days off until he's back to normal?

2) DFA Swihart -- This has been beaten to death in other threads, but Vazquez off to a lousy start and Leon looking like nothing more than a replacement-level player, this seems like a bad idea.

3) Send Holt to Pawtucket briefly -- Only because he's the only one left with any options. He's hitting well enough so that this wouldn't make sense otherwise, but it could buy some time to see Pedroia on the field before having to DFA Nunez team

4) Go with a five-man bench, reduce pitching staff from 12 to 11 (Poyner going down to Pawtucket) -- This seems less than ideal with ERod and Pomeranz unable to pitch deep into ballgames. But perhaps Wright and BJohnson can soak up some innings.
I would absolutely hate #3. I just heard Ian Browne saying - to paraphrase "now Nunez can go back to his super utility role once Pedroia coems back."

Holt is better than Nunez at the moment. Even when he faces rh batters. In Holt's 2014 and 2015 season's his big problem was playing every day. He wore down. His hitting vs rh batters if you don't play him every day would have shown to be superior to Nunez. It's absolutely mind-boggling that he isn't playing instead of Nunez at the moment.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Holt is better than Nunez at the moment. Even when he faces rh batters. In Holt's 2014 and 2015 season's his big problem was playing every day. He wore down. His hitting vs rh batters if you don't play him every day would have shown to be superior to Nunez. It's absolutely mind-boggling that he isn't playing instead of Nunez at the moment.
Obviously the jury is still out on Cora, but sometimes I feel like he set a hierarchy of batters 1-13 before the season started and has just refused to deviate from that whatsoever regardless of performance.
 

Cesar Crespo

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After hitting a HR in each of the last 2 games, Tzu Wei Lin is slashing .272/.344/.444 for the year in 86 PA at AAA. His GO/AO is 0.65, which is similar to the 0.63 he posted last year in his breakout season.

Something worth keeping an eye on, as he is a potential bench candidate. If Lin continues to hit like he did last year, he may even be more than that. He is hard to judge as a prospect because there clearly was a change in approach.