I don’t know. Brees completed 124 balls to running backs last season. That is a ton. NO also had two other WRs but Cooks still caught a lot more balls in the short and intermediate range than he has here. He averaged around 13 yards per catch in NO and 17 with us.They don't have Gronk in New Orleans. And they didn't have running backs (until Kamara this season) who can catch the ball out of the backfield like we do. Cooks just isn't the third down option in our offense because he's not an underneath/short yardage guy. He's a burner who makes big plays, and that's exactly what the Pats are using him for.
That's why late in the game, Brady started going deep on the sidelines when he wasn't going to Gronk over the middle. The philosophy is if you're going to go man to man on Cooks, then let's see if you're fast enough to stay with him. It worked on one play beautifully, but Cooks went out of bounds and got a penalty.
Edit: The other thing is Cooks tends to run routes that are longer, and take more time to develop, and unfortunately, last week for example, Brady simply didn't have enough time in the pocket to wait for those routes. If the offensive line doesn't hold up, Cooks will be the first weapon to disappear.
Good point. You are obviously correct.You're right, but back then this was "correctly" ruled NOT a catch, since the ball couldn't touch the ground under any circumstances and be a completion:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-top-ten/0ap2000000113876/Top-Ten-Controversial-Calls-Burt-Emanuel-s-catch
Turns out defining a catch is hard. I think the current rule is the best iteration yet.
I thought it was that Ben wanted to clock it but sideline overruled that, so Eli ran the play.Rodney calling Ben a liar. Saying if Ben had told everyone to clock it, Eli wouldn't have run the route.
I'm not too sure how well taken Rodney's point is anyways given that nobody else seemed to be running the play.I thought it was that Ben wanted to clock it but sideline overruled that, so Eli ran the play.
Either way--Steelers talk before the game, lose, talk after game.
Shut up dudes.
Yeah, I agree with this point overall, I wouldn't say Cooks has been a disappointment, and he has never been a pure move-the-chains type receiver, but there have been a couple of matchups this year where teams were daring the Pats to go to him outside on 3rd down and the execution wasn't really there. It's something I would hope might come out next year with more offseason work.I don’t know. Brees completed 124 balls to running backs last season. That is a ton. NO also had two other WRs but Cooks still caught a lot more balls in the short and intermediate range than he has here. He averaged around 13 yards per catch in NO and 17 with us.
Yeah I didn't want to be the turd, but I was a little surprised there was no taunting call on Gronk. I'm glad, because it was hilarious.Contrary to this group's usual course, the officials didn't dominate the game.
I think there are officials who would have given gronk a taunting penalty after the 2pt play.
So good on them for not getting in the way of a great game.
secondedIs there a place I can get the Pats radio highlights from today?
I would think Zolak had a coronary on air.
There should be a montage with radio highlights on Toucher and Rich tomorrow morning. Might be best to tune in at the top of each hour or get the podcast.seconded
the incomparable Rob Gronkowski, who had nine catches for 168 yards, caught a 2-point conversion pass and again showed why he’s the greatest tight end in NFL history.
Yikes. Leadership.Roethlisberger said postgame that he wanted a spike and FG, but sidelines wanted to try to catch Pats.
Also I believe it was Richards who wrestled a Steelers receiver (Bell?) to the ground hard after forward contact was clearly stopped — could easily have been called a personal foul.Contrary to this group's usual course, the officials didn't dominate the game.
I think there are officials who would have given gronk a taunting penalty after the 2pt play.
So good on them for not getting in the way of a great game.
Who does the postgame? Felger & Mazz?The Patriots postgame show opening up by talking about how it was essentially a gift and we can't call Roger Goodell names any longer was off-putting.
It was the right fucking call and Goodell is an asshole.
I'll take Valentine back, too. And throw in that Rivers kid.They can have Brown and Shazier if we can have Edelman, Hightower, Hogan, Van Noy, Mitchell, Bennett, and Cannon
Or is it Ordway and Smerlas? They are all jackasses.Who does the postgame? Felger & Mazz?
Agreed, I've seen the same thing, as well as timing being slightly off on slants and other bread-and-butter short patterns. I'm hoping that it just comes over time.Yeah, I agree with this point overall, I wouldn't say Cooks has been a disappointment, and he has never been a pure move-the-chains type receiver, but there have been a couple of matchups this year where teams were daring the Pats to go to him outside on 3rd down and the execution wasn't really there. It's something I would hope might come out next year with more offseason work.
This is like the worst post ever. It implies that you're judging another post based on who they root for rather than the quality of their posting.So, I can judge whether this discussion is worth having, who is your favorite NFL team. That may help.
not a catch and not a catch
This is like the worst post ever. It implies that you're judging another post based on who they root for rather than the quality of their posting.
Wasn’t that the fourth time or so he’d (or others) tried to explain to that poster why it wasn’t a catch?This is like the worst post ever. It implies that you're judging another post based on who they root for rather than the quality of their posting.
The rule is you need to maintain possession all the way to the ground. I guess the confusion is at what point does the rule no longer matter.Wasn’t that the fourth time or so he’d (or others) tried to explain to that poster why it wasn’t a catch?
After he goes to the ground and maintain possession.The rule is you need to maintain possession all the way to the ground. I guess the confusion is at what point does the rule no longer matter.
You need to read what you’ve written before you hit reply. You’ve done this a few times in this very thread.The rule is you need to maintain possession all the way to the ground. I guess the confusion is at what point does the rule no longer matter.
I'm sorry, but the judges were looking for "he was always playing the angles".To be fair, Pythagoras did have rooting interests.
Yeah, that was my implication. We were on about the third or fourth post by the same poster going over the same ground. I was a couple of replies to the poster into it and we weren't connecting. We all have obvious biases. I think it's an easy call, but there's no shame in admitting that may be because I'm a Patriots fan. If axx is really a neutral it's interesting to me to try to understand what he or she is seeing and to understand it. But as the conversation wore on it seemed likely what people were saying about the rule just wasn't sinking in. That's still the case. If axx is a Steelers fan then it's probably best to just let it go because we're more likely having an emotional discussion (on both his and my sides) and it's not really going to get anywhere.This is like the worst post ever. It implies that you're judging another post based on who they root for rather than the quality of their posting.
I believe both Roethlisberger and Eli confirmed in post-game interviews that Ben signaled that he would throw a slant to Eli. Part of the problem is that there was no time to signal to the entire offense that there would be a play, or what the play would be. So everyone but Ben and Eli were expecting a spike; therefore, no chance for any pick plays or other moves by the other receivers. So the only option was to throw into triple coverage with a predictable result, or throw the ball away and hope that the officials don't call grounding.Rodney calling Ben a liar. Saying if Ben had told everyone to clock it, Eli wouldn't have run the route.
Wasn't this a drop by Bell? I thought they could have called something there, but it would have been a marginal call at best. Richards can't assume the Bell dropped it, and we can't assume that he saw the ball hit the ground. He played that as if it was a catch and the runner needed to be tackled. Also, if you watch the play again Bell makes it look worse than it actually was because he tries to fling Richards away after he had dropped it. Good no call in my book.Also I believe it was Richards who wrestled a Steelers receiver (Bell?) to the ground hard after forward contact was clearly stopped — could easily have been called a personal foul.
I too was worried /curious when I saw him do that live. Completely expecting a taunting flag at that point and glad it wasn't thrown. As the 4th quarter progressed and Gronk made play after play, by the 2 pt conversion he had amped himself into such a rage that he was walking around in a continual flex. Great to see but hoping he didn't go "Gronk SMASH" on someone.Contrary to this group's usual course, the officials didn't dominate the game.
I think there are officials who would have given gronk a taunting penalty after the 2pt play.
So good on them for not getting in the way of a great game.
He was clearly annoyed by the contact and rolled to fling the defender off which made it look worse. I had a running tab with a friend who is a Steelers fan and after that play and his complaint my message to him was AFC NORTH FOOTBALL!!!Wasn't this a drop by Bell?... Also, if you watch the play again Bell makes it look worse than it actually was because he tries to fling Richards away after he had dropped it. Good no call in my book.
First, grounding requires imminent loss of yardage due to pressure. That wasn't the case. Ben double pumped. He had plenty of time to throw it away. Grounding was never in play. It was just a very poor decision. He tried to force it in there. That's on him.I believe both Roethlisberger and Eli confirmed in post-game interviews that Ben signaled that he would throw a slant to Eli. Part of the problem is that there was no time to signal to the entire offense that there would be a play, or what the play would be. So everyone but Ben and Eli were expecting a spike; therefore, no chance for any pick plays or other moves by the other receivers. So the only option was to throw into triple coverage with a predictable result, or throw the ball away and hope that the officials don't call grounding.
The play had no chance of working. So, it was not a daring play call to win the game; it was just stupid.
Agree with your second point. The mistake was throwing into the flat on 2nd down if they weren’t prepared to immediately run a play if the receiver was a stopped in bounds. Either only throw into the end zone on 2nd or have a play ready to go on 3rd. The fake clocking was dumb, and it was totally a panic move. There was lots of time to run a real play into the end zone with multiple receiving options.First, grounding requires imminent loss of yardage due to pressure. That wasn't the case. Ben double pumped. He had plenty of time to throw it away. Grounding was never in play. It was just a very poor decision. He tried to force it in there. That's on him.
Second, I might be in the minority here, but I think they had time to call a play. They had 21 seconds, he should have a couple quick plays he can call. I think it was just moving too fast for him. I mean if you are going to spike it then take your time and let the clock run. No need to call it right away. I think they panicked a bit when they were tackled in bounds.
Probably shouldn't have thrown anything sorry of the end zone if they weren't prepared. Which they had plenty of time to do. That review was long, they had time to discuss options and scenarios.
Live it looked more like the lunge (with his knee down) toward the EZ could be considered a "football move".If axx is really a neutral it's interesting to me to try to understand what he or she is seeing and to understand it.
I understand what you're saying, but I'm not 100% sure on the bolded. When Roethlisberger throws the pass, he's about to be hit by a Pats defender coming from his right. And I can never get over how Brady got called for grounding in Seattle a few seasons ago when he threw the ball out of the back of the end zone at the end of the half. So, while I would not necessarily expect a grounding call, it's certainly not out of the question either.First, grounding requires imminent loss of yardage due to pressure. That wasn't the case. Ben double pumped. He had plenty of time to throw it away. Grounding was never in play. It was just a very poor decision. He tried to force it in there. That's on him.
Second, I might be in the minority here, but I think they had time to call a play. They had 21 seconds, he should have a couple quick plays he can call. I think it was just moving too fast for him. I mean if you are going to spike it then take your time and let the clock run. No need to call it right away. I think they panicked a bit when they were tackled in bounds.
Probably shouldn't have thrown anything sorry of the end zone if they weren't prepared. Which they had plenty of time to do. That review was long, they had time to discuss options and scenarios.
i finally found a screen capture of the Seattle play. There isn’t a pats player within 20 yards of where Brady threw the ball.I understand what you're saying, but I'm not 100% sure on the bolded. When Roethlisberger throws the pass, he's about to be hit by a Pats defender coming from his right. And I can never get over how Brady got called for grounding in Seattle a few seasons ago when he threw the ball out of the back of the end zone at the end of the half. So, while I would not necessarily expect a grounding call, it's certainly not out of the question either.
Anyway, that's a minor detail. The problem was that they ended up in a bad situation entirely of their own doing once the reversal occurred. As you said, they had plenty of time to audible an actual play and be prepared to throw it away.