He is very good but some metrics don't value him highly and his midrange and rim attacking skills are, like feathered hair, not in style like they were many years ago.So does anyone still think Demar DeRozan isn't a very good player?
And I agree with this too. Man can ball.Conley might end up being the greatest player to never make the All-Star team.
Yup. He's a flawed if gifted offensive player who is horrible defensivelySo does anyone still think Demar DeRozan isn't a very good player?
You seem to take every perceived slight against a Warrior personally...Speaking of defense, I know I shouldn't listen to the nonsense that Stephen A. and Kellerman spew — and I guess this may fall under me getting cranky at someone side-eyeing the Warriors — but I choked on my coffee his morning when they both agreed that John Wall was the best PG in the playoffs, and that he was better than Curry because he was much better on defense.
Why is Wall better on defense than Curry again?
Because Curry has crushed him by defensive RPM this season (#13 to #55 among PGs); and beat him the season before (#6 to #14), and the season before (#2 to #4)?
Because Curry is a better defensive rebounder?
Because Curry gets more steals?
Because Curry is key part of a consistently elite defense (#2 this season) and Wall is a key part of a consistently crappy one (#20)?
Because Curry has totally destroyed Wall in their head-to-head matchups? (10-2 record, 30.3 pts per 36 on .693 true shooting to Wall's 16.9 pts on .486 true shooting)
Or is it more because, as Draymond Green recently noted, Curry has light skin and comes from a good family?
Honestly, I don't disagree with most of your opinions. I think the shooter label impacts the perception of Curry's other skills more than anything else. Some people still view him as the frail shooter that came into the league in 2009.Haha, maybe a little personally, but more just as a slight against rational, evidence-based analysis.
I guess if you're being charitable you could say that it's just a scouting-based observation, but I think there's almost zero chance Kellerman or Smith understand the two teams' defensive schemes well enough, or have observed the players closely and extensively enough on the defensive end to make such a bold claim. Defensive metrics like DRPM are noisy and unreliable, so people tend to ignore them. But then we're left with a self-perpetuating tautology like "screw all the numbers, we know Wall is a much better defender than Curry, because people like us say he's the much better defender."
I know my posting here doesn't change any of that, but I think one of the great things about sites like SoSH is that they question ESPN-style common wisdom that isn't actually grounded in evidence.
I'd say quite the opposite. He is like the prime Shaq of 3pt shooting and it leads to him (rightfully so in today's game) being put on the NBA Mt. Rushmore.Honestly, I don't disagree with most of your opinions. I think the shooter label impacts the perception of Curry's other skills more than anything else. Some people still view him as the frail shooter that came into the league in 2009.
Yeah, I'm sure that's a big part of it. And I don't mean to diminish the awesomeness of John Wall. But as Kliq notes, this is an insanely stacked era for PGs, which is what makes Kellerman's confident claim that Wall is the clear best among them so silly. The default assumption should be that he's not in the class of Curry, Harden, Westbrook and CP3, who by both advanced metrics and general acclaim are Top 5-8 NBA players. Then you get to the next tier of PGs — Conley, Lillard, IT, Lowry, Wall, Irving — and if you want to advocate for Wall towards the top of that tier, well, fine.I think the shooter label impacts the perception of Curry's other skills more than anything else. Some people still view him as the frail shooter that came into the league in 2009.
James, Curry, Leonard, Durant?NBA Mt. Rushmore.
Brother, it's Max Kellerman. He and SAS just started following the NBA two weeks ago. Their "takes" are no more informed and actually may be less so than all of our friends who just started following basketball because playoffs.Yeah, I'm sure that's a big part of it. And I don't mean to diminish the awesomeness of John Wall. But as Kliq notes, this is an insanely stacked era for PGs, which is what makes Kellerman's confident claim that Wall is the clear best among them so silly. The default assumption should be that he's not in the class of Curry, Harden, Westbrook and CP3, who by both advanced metrics and general acclaim are Top 5-8 NBA players. Then you get to the next tier of PGs — Conley, Lillard, IT, Lowry, Wall, Irving — and if you want to advocate for Wall towards the top of that tier, well, fine.
On related note, I kinda feel like the Wizards, while a dynamic and cool young team, seem to talk about themselves and carry themselves like they're several notches above what they've ever actually achieved; and Kellerman and Stephen A's comments about Wall feed in that. Would love to see the Cs (or even the Hawks!) take them down a peg.
Funny I heard someone on the radio make this same argument - that John Wall is so good he's a legitimate MVP candidate (given what he means to his team) but he may not be a top 5 PG.Yeah, I'm sure that's a big part of it. And I don't mean to diminish the awesomeness of John Wall. But as Kliq notes, this is an insanely stacked era for PGs, which is what makes Kellerman's confident claim that Wall is the clear best among them so silly. The default assumption should be that he's not in the class of Curry, Harden, Westbrook and CP3, who by both advanced metrics and general acclaim are Top 5-8 NBA players. Then you get to the next tier of PGs — Conley, Lillard, IT, Lowry, Wall, Irving — and if you want to advocate for Wall towards the top of that tier, well, fine.
On a related note, I kinda feel like the Wizards, while a dynamic and cool young team, seem to talk about themselves and carry themselves like they're several notches above what they've ever actually achieved; and Kellerman and Stephen A's comments about Wall feed in that. Would love to see the Cs (or even the Hawks!) take them down a peg.
I find them both annoying but claiming the two of them casually follow basketball is just as dumb as the stuff they spew for click bait daily. They are both huge bball fans.Brother, it's Max Kellerman. He and SAS just started following the NBA two weeks ago. Their "takes" are no more informed and actually may be less so than all of our friends who just started following basketball because playoffs.
In other news, the guy who appears to have actually earned even more respect from actual NBA pundits is Kawhi. He would be the no-doubt MVP if the voting were held today.
My guess is current voting would look like this:
Kawhi
LeBron
Harden
Curry
Westbrook
I would argue that LeBron should win it and that Curry should be higher than Harden but I suspect most voters would disagree based on discounting James because he has been doing it for so long and Curry for being on a super team.
They claim to be huge basketball fans but they aren't in the weeds looking at the stats beyond what they can read in the box scores. They aren't paid for analysis - they are paid for takes.I find them both annoying but claiming the two of them casually follow basketball is just as dumb as the stuff they spew for click bait daily. They are both huge bball fans.
The real meat of it is simple. For a large segment of NBA fans, Steph isn't gritty/real enough. Regardless of whatever analytics and actual accomplishments there are, he'll never win that group over.
Yeah and he had Deandre guarding him out there.I don't know how Hayward didn't take that shot
Oh they showed him on ESPN alright…. Balmer is amazingGreat effort tonight. Not sure if they showed him on the ESPN broadcast but the local broadcast has shown balmer and he is losing his mind.
CP needs some help. Too much to shoulder on his ownWhy the ball is in Austin Rivers' hands so much I have no idea.
I don't know. He seems to score every time he has the ball. Rivers should be spot-up shooting and that's it. He's a disaster.CP needs some help. Too much to shoulder on his own
I don't know. He seems to score every time he has the ball. Rivers should be spot-up shooting and that's it. He's a disaster.
EDIT: They just seem weirdly undisciplined on offense for a team that's got the point god. I don't know how you can let Rivers dribble away multiple possessions in a row without pulling him from the game -- unless you're his Dad, of course.
Phrasing. Cuz Pierce is the fucking man.Paul Pierce is fucking useless
No, it's 2017. He's useless and this game is over.Phrasing. Cuz Pierce is the fucking man.
Guess they should've gone to Brandon Bass to replace Blake huh?No, it's 2017. He's useless and this game is over.
Nice piss poor effort from the Clipps. No fire at all .
I admit I'm biased as a Jazz fan, but the calls on Favors in the 4th have been tough to stomach.The Clippers are down by a ton and Utah's big men have been called for every touch foul.