Except that Butler doesn't just cost you the pick. He costs the pick plus considerably more, starting with some combination of Crowder, Bradley, Jaylen Brown, and perhaps another pick or two, plus at least one player with an expiring deal as salary filler that cuts down your ability to do another deal.This makes no sense. You can't trade the pick because of the chance that player becomes an All-Star? Jimmy Butler is an All-Star in his prime on a below market deal RIGHT NOW. The likelihood of that pick becoming something as good as Butler isn't that great.
Why would Bradley and/or Crowder be in the trade? They aren't needed to make the money work. They have more value to the C's than the Bulls. Jerebko, Green, Brown, and Smart would lose minutes or be traded. I don't see Bradley or Crowder going anywhere.Except that Butler doesn't just cost you the pick. He costs the pick plus considerably more, starting with some combination of Crowder, Bradley, Jaylen Brown, and perhaps another pick or two, plus at least one player with an expiring deal as salary filler that cuts down your ability to do another deal.
I'd gladly part with both Brooklyn picks for superstar like Anthony Davis or Richard Westbrook.. Butler isn't in their league. He's an overachieving 6-6 player with a balky knee and in a year or two Jaylen Brown may be better.
Take away Bradley and Crowder and add Butler. Do the revamped Celtics beat Cleveland? I doubt it. Meanwhile, they've tossed away a shot at a top five player in the draft of the decade. If Butler coming out of Marquette were in the 2016 draft, he'd be taken somewhere in the middle of the second round.
Funny, I think the team that has to get him is Philly.If Butler is traded, the Celtics have to be the destination, it just makes too much sense for both sides. I think Crowder, Amir and this year's Nets pick would have to going, along with Rozier + a non-BK pick or two, though if Danny could work something around Crowder, Brown and BK2018 ++, he'd deserve GM of the year. Butler's contract would provide great flexibility.
The chances of Jaylen Brown being as good as Butler is now is miniscule. And the chances of that happening in a year or two are zero.He's an overachieving 6-6 player with a balky knee and in a year or two Jaylen Brown may be better.
I agree completely that the odds of Brown being better than Butler in a year or two are super low (super close to impossible).The chances of Jaylen Brown being as good as Butler is now is miniscule. And the chances of that happening in a year or two are zero.
I agree Butler is really good, but as mentioned in the first paragraph, he needs to keep this up a full season, not 36 games.There have been 9 players to put up at least 25 points, 4 assists, 6 rebounds, and 1.5 steals over a full season.
Butler is at 25.2, 4.5, 6.8, 1.7
He is really fucking good. Jaylen Brown has a tiny chance of being as good as Butler. Tiny.
This is an excellent post. My only question is how do the Celts get Millsap after trading everything for Butler?Looking at the next two drafts plus the Celtics young assets is tantalizing. However you also need context. As was mentioned upthread, the Cavs are a bit hobbled.
The Celtics, meanwhile are incredibly deep, they have good talent across their roster (I would argue that IT4 has made a huge leap into the top 15 and possibly top ten elite offensive players in the league). Were you able to add a Butler, they take a step forward and are the second best team in the East. Add Millsap and you have a squad that can push the Cavs to the limit and likely beats them. Furthermore, if you can hold on to two of Bradley, Smart and Crowder you have the defensive rotation to take away Curry and even Thompson for spots when playing Golden State.
Finally, our discussions around here about Davis, Giannis, Gobert, Wiggins, Levine, Russell, Parker etc shows that NBA talent evaluation and, ultimately, development are hit and miss for even the best organizations. Even if you have lots of talent, its still hard to win - see Minnesota or Milwaukee, the former who is headed for the lottery again and the latter who is very inconsistent.
Furthermore, talent develops non-linearly so there is a chance that a player may be drafted by Boston, show little development and go elsewhere to flourish, years later. Jaylen Brown may well be a poor man't Butler but he may also be a rich man's Evan Turner. We don't know and holding on to him because you are worried that he may be the former seems silly if you can get the real product.
Ainge has done a masterful job at acquiring assets and gets more mixed marks in talent evaluation. My sense, from his body of work, is that if he can pull together a talented roster to win now he will do so because of the risk involved in talent evaluation/development and the time it takes to build a competitive roster. The C's have that right now.
I dunno dude, Brown's career averages are 5.1, 1.9 and 0.6.I agree completely that the odds of Brown being better than Butler in a year or two are super low (super close to impossible).
But the odds of Brown ever averaging 25 points, 7 rebounds and 4.5 assists by the time he is 27 (7 or 8 more seasons) is a little bit higher than minuscule.
Plus this is Jimmy's best performance of his career.
His career averages are 15, 5, and 3. I think Brown can do that in a few years.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleji01.html
That's an excellent get for Cleveland. It stabilizes their wing rotation and adds even more shooting. I still think backup PG and C are issues, but Korver is a legit piece.
Woj says Cleveland just got Korver. Good fit.
Yeah I get it. I was not trying to imply that Brown will be Butler.I dunno dude, Brown's career averages are 5.1, 1.9 and 0.6.
Agreed. That is a really nice move for the Cavs.That's an excellent get for Cleveland. It stabilizes their wing rotation and adds even more shooting. I still think backup PG and C are issues, but Korver is a legit piece.
Very true. Excellent post.Nobody was beating the Warriors last year until Cleveland did (and OKC almost did). If you gauge every deal from the perspective of "Does this move win us a championship" instead of "Does this deal get us a closer to a championship" you're likely going to be left in the middle of the pack for a long, long time. There is no blueprint for creating a title team; you take the opportunities presented to you. That doesn't mean throwing away all your assets in go-for-it-now moves, but it does mean everything can and should be on the table.
Funny, I think the team that has to get him is Philly.
He's been good enough for the last three years to show that this season is a reasonable progression, and not some crazy outlier. Barring catastrophic injury, he's going to be much, much better at basketball than Jaylen Brown over the next four years.Yeah I get it. I was not trying to imply that Brown will be Butler.
That is wishful thinking.
I was only trying to point out the comparison of a in his prime All-Star to a rookie isn't really fair.
Jimmy Butler as a 22 year old rookie was 2.6, 1.3, and 0.3.
But Brown is a rookie on a good team.
To be fair Butler wasn't really Butler until this year. He has seemingly made "the leap".
Well you don't trade everything for Butler. You do one of the Brooklyn picks and players for Butler and a non-Brooklyn pick and player for Millsap. Brown, one of the stash bigs, a Brooklyn pick and the TWolves pick for Butler. Rozier, the other stash big and the Grizzlies 19 pick for Millsap. That probably doesn't get it done but thats the kind of framework Danny might start with.This is an excellent post. My only question is how do the Celts get Millsap after trading everything for Butler?
I think Millsap and Butler give the C's a shot to maybe beat Cleveland.
Minus injuries, the Celts are probably not beating GSW this year.
That is the issue I see. Trade in all the assets for the hope of making the finals and more than likely losing as a beat case scenario.
When Durant signed with the Warriors, it made it better for the Celts to stay the course and use the Nets picks.
The Warriors are playing some transcendent basketball right now. The current iteration of the Celtics plus Butler is not beating them in a 7 game series.
Two*I thought Butler was terrific the last episode Years too. Shrugs
Yes, you're missing it.Wait, am I missing why we are talking about Butler? Sounds like he's not gettable at the moment. They wanna move on from rondo, but heard nothing about Butler
Oh sick thank you! I didn't see Bucher tweet
They should get more than a future 1st for Kyle Korver?What in the fuck Atlanta
Yup - this is getting fun. I feel like Danny is going to come away with one of Millsap or Butler.I love trade season!!!!!!!!
That sounds like a pretty good framework for a deal.Well you don't trade everything for Butler. You do one of the Brooklyn picks and players for Butler and a non-Brooklyn pick and player for Millsap. Brown, one of the stash bigs, a Brooklyn pick and the TWolves pick for Butler. Rozier, the other stash big and the Grizzlies 19 pick for Millsap. That probably doesn't get it done but thats the kind of framework Danny might start with.
So, basically every Western Conference team that is fighting for the right to get swept by Golden State and Toronto.Per Woj, Toronto, Denver, Sacramento and New Orleans are among teams with an interest in Millsap.
Why would they?That sounds like a pretty good framework for a deal.
I would hope they could use the 2018 pick for Butler and keep the 2017 pick.
I am fine with trading Brown for Butler, but I wonder if the Bulls would rather have Bradley or Crowder.
I don't know how much Celtics basketball or general NBA basketball you watch but I don't agree with your take. The Cs played the Cavs close at home and are the type of team that can give the Warriors trouble. Curry is stifled against a Bradley or Smart.The Celtics have no chance to beat Cleveland this year, barring an injury to LBJ or Irving. I wouldn't trade anything of value (even Yabu) for a half season of Paul Millsap, which probably doesn't get them any further than they'd go without him.
But, I think you take that chance if it's for the right price of course. I'm a fan of always going for it. Lebron tears his acl tomorrow and it's there for the taking.The Celtics have no chance to beat Cleveland this year, barring an injury to LBJ or Irving. I wouldn't trade anything of value (even Yabu) for a half season of Paul Millsap, which probably doesn't get them any further than they'd go without him.
so Korver for a late 1st next season + whatever you get in return for Dunleavy (whom I presume has less trade value than Korver)Great pickup for Cleveland. Bummer. I always liked Kyle Korver. Now I have to root against him.
Plus he must live in my neighborhood, since I've seen him on several occasions. Oh well.
Michael Scotto @MikeAScotto 40m40 minutes agoPer Woj, Toronto, Denver, Sacramento and New Orleans are among teams with an interest in Millsap.
We only have 1 pick this year - Brooklyn's. But I would love to figure out a way to get SoSH binky WCS.Sacto needs a 3rd team with a 1st. Boston has an extra first....Thier own.
What can they steal from Sacto for the 1st this year? Cauley-Stein is a pipe dream right?
I might take the 2021 1st. Just keeps the resources rolling in for danny.
https://www.outsideonline.com/1928041/one-day-year-fitness-planFor 15 years, Elliott thought about what his friend called misogi. “We’ve evolved with a desire to challenge ourselves,” he says. “It was necessary to get the tribe over the pass in winter, to hunt the mammoth. Now we live in the center of the table. We’re afraid to fail. Fuck that! How can you reach the edge of your potential without risking failure?”
Elliott gradually honed his own version of misogi, which would require completing only once or twice a year. “If it’s hard enough,” he believes, “the lesson will last.”
“This is about testing your abilities in a foreign environment,” he says. “The more blind, the more bold and adventurous the effort.” There’s no entry fee. No spectators. “It’s not a ride at Disneyland or a Tough Mudder,” he says. “It’s a personal quest designed by you. And it’s really fucking hard. You have a 50 percent chance of success, at best.” Regardless of the outcome—the thinking goes—you’ll realize your potential.
I often wonder what my wife would say if she knew how much time I spend thinking about a guy averaging 4 and 2.We only have 1 pick this year - Brooklyn's. But I would love to figure out a way to get SoSH binky WCS.