Why? Is it a cost thing? Because Millsap's a better defender than CS, and defense is all CS does.
NBA trade season
- Thread starter Devizier
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WCS and Sacramento already have a rocky relationship. Can't imagine a scenario where he stays if Millsap is coming in.
Giving up first round picks for guys like Frye and Korver aren't good deals value-wise on the surface, but I've been continually impressed by David Griffin's ability to put talent around Lebron James despite their total lack of assets and cap space. They've cobbled together trade exceptions and late round picks into an actual bench that complements the talent of their big three.
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The idea of giving up either Brooklyn pick for Millsap seems absurd to me. Yes, Millsap is a legitimately good player, but he's not the difference between winning or losing a playoff series against Cleveland. The only way I move one of the two remaining Brooklyn picks is as part of a package for a true star (Butler, George, Brow, etc.). With or without Millsap, Cleveland is still going to have the best three players on the court. Granted, IT4, Horford and Bradley are good enough players where they'll have stretches of being the 2nd or 3rd best players, but not for 48mpg over a seven game playoff series once the Cavs turn up the intensity.
I have no problem with moving some of the surplus assets to get incrementally better and improve the chances of getting to the ECF, but to move a Brooklyn pick for a few months of a (quality) supporting/complimentary piece, no way. Barring unforeseen events, that's going to be a top 3-4 pick again this year. I can't see any path to Brooklyn being much better next year either.
I have no problem with moving some of the surplus assets to get incrementally better and improve the chances of getting to the ECF, but to move a Brooklyn pick for a few months of a (quality) supporting/complimentary piece, no way. Barring unforeseen events, that's going to be a top 3-4 pick again this year. I can't see any path to Brooklyn being much better next year either.
I don't think anybody disagrees with you about the Brooklyn picks. I don't think anybody's suggested that, and if you look at the rumors that are out there around Millsap, that would be a huge overpay.
That said, I think people are very, very seriously underestimating Paul Millsap. He is a steal, even as a rental, at the price that's rumored. He's elite on both ends of the floor, and has finished in the top 15 in the league in RPM for the last 2 years, and is there again this year. He'd very likely be the best player on the Celtics, and given where Kevin Love's reputation on this board was at this time last year, I'm surprised people think that the Celtics with Millsap wouldn't have one of the 3 best players on the floor in that series.
It's because one of them is cost controlled for two more years after this one and the other's a soon to be 32 year UFA. Meaning that this summer Boston either has to renounce Millsap to chase another free agent, or sign him, at a minimum, to one of those 4/135 deals and pray for the best. All told, the young, cost controlled PF/C makes a lot more sense for the Celtics given that they have Horford to mentor him.
Does Paul Millsap get a max contract this summer? I know everyone says that offhand because he's a top 15 player in the league and everyone got a max contract the past few years, but this is a different cap environment now. I don't see many teams shelling out $30M per year for him into his late 30s. If you could sign him for a four-year deal at say $25M per with the final year partially guaranteed does that change the calculus? I know he's 31 (almost 32) but he's still playing at an elite level. Given the aging curves of similar players would it be insane for him to keep this up for a year or two and then settle into a still-productive role in his mid-30s? If so, that's a player you'd probably want to acquire.
Fair enough. I think a Millsap rental makes a ton of sense for this team given the likely cost and the assets they have in place.
It seems super weird to me that people here are open to offering a first round pic for Cauley-Stein, who is, you know, bad but wouldn't add Rozier+ to that offer to give this team a chance to play for a spot in the finals. It changes nothing about this team's future, doesn't cost a single top 5 asset, and sends a message to free agents that Boston is all in about contending right now.
I think there are teams out there that would have no choice. I mentioned New Orleans upthread; if they can trade for his Bird Rights, he's basically their only path to making any substantial improvement in the next several years, and I suspect they'd bite the bullet on giving him the max.
Otherwise though, I suspect you're right and he's not a hands down max guy. I still think he's pricey, and I'm not suggesting the Celtics should view him as anything but a rental, but I'm with you in thinking that it's far from certain he ends up with a 4 year deal at max money.
I'm with you on Millsap but perhaps Bogut could be had for roughly the same price and might be a better fit.
Brooklyn signing Milsap to a max deal in the offseason makes some sense to me. His decline period will dovetail with Brooklyn finally getting its ability to use their own picks again, so it actually might help them get higher draft picks. Also, his rebounding helps shore up one of Lopez' weakness and the two would form 2/3rds of a very solid frontline for a couple of years.
An added incentive for Brooklyn is the PR they might derive as that iteration of the Nets might be able to win enough games to knock that year's #1 down to below a top 5. Fans at least wouldn't be bemoaning that "we traded away a top 1, 2, or 3... pick." Of course, the lottery might have something to say about that too.
An added incentive for Brooklyn is the PR they might derive as that iteration of the Nets might be able to win enough games to knock that year's #1 down to below a top 5. Fans at least wouldn't be bemoaning that "we traded away a top 1, 2, or 3... pick." Of course, the lottery might have something to say about that too.
I like Bogut fine, and he'll certainly be cheaper, but I don't think he helps Boston beat the teams Boston needs to beat to actually go anywhere. You don't really want Horford guarding 4s at this point in his career, and I think Millsap helps them matchup with Cleveland much better than Bogut would.
There are absolutely circumstances in which it makes sense. For example, if there really was a trade for Jimmy Butler then chasing Millsap to be the third scorer makes a ton of sense. Because adding Butler and Millsap absolutely makes Boston a tier one contender. I'm just not seeing it as a standalone.
I love Andrew Boguts game but unless its for a proverbial bucket of balls, a Cs trade for him makes little sense. As GMB notes, he does little to move the needle and I will add that, at this point in his career, he simply cannot stay healthy. This may not be a problem during the dog days of February and March. However its going to be a huge issue come playoff time.
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1) Bogut should be a heck of a lot cheaper to attain
2) Millsap is a far better player and far better fit.
No question that Millsap is a better player; certainly he's a better scorer. But Bogut is a better passer and arguably a better rebounder.
Toronto is rumored to be interested in Millsap, and is said to be offering Ross and Patterson. It wouldn't be too difficult to beat that offer if Ainge wanted to keep Millsap away from the Raptors.
Toronto is rumored to be interested in Millsap, and is said to be offering Ross and Patterson. It wouldn't be too difficult to beat that offer if Ainge wanted to keep Millsap away from the Raptors.
I mean, I get the idea behind it, but the flip side is that one is among the best PFs in the game and one isn't an NBA caliber player.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA 6m6 minutes ago
Sources: Cleveland, Atlanta targeting Saturday for trade call on Korver deal now. Hawks haven't found 3rd team deal to move on Dunleavy yet.
Sources: Cleveland, Atlanta targeting Saturday for trade call on Korver deal now. Hawks haven't found 3rd team deal to move on Dunleavy yet.
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine 1h1 hour ago
The Blazers just announced that they've completed their pick swap with Cleveland, setting the stage for the Kyle Korver trade
The Blazers just announced that they've completed their pick swap with Cleveland, setting the stage for the Kyle Korver trade
The Blazers would rather have the pick this year than next. The only reason it was a 2018 pick was because of the Stepien rule which now no longer applies.
1. They don't all have 2 years left, Noel is a free agent after this season so he has to be given a new contract.
2. Avery Bradley is worth considerably more than Noel as he's a much much better player on a better contract.
I wouldn't even entertain this if I was Ainge.
Apologies my bad, thought Noel was making 5.8MM in '17/'18...My fears of Bradley D-ing up IT are unfounded.
What's the guess on asking price for Noel for 1/2 season from a team going nowhere?
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If Noel moves, I suspect it is not as a rental. Whatever team is acquiring him is doing so to get 1) the right to match and/or 2) his Bird rights and the ability to sign him without using cap space.
I'm not so sure. Korver has sort of set the market for a role playing rental and the best teams in the league are typically strapped against the tax to where they look to move their low 1st round pick in the summer anyway as to not have to pay the guaranteed money for a player who likely won't ever help them......and now the rookie contracts will be making a huge leap (although in this specific case I believe it isn't until the following summer). Moving forward I expect to see more of the giving away of low 1sts but I can certainly see a team like Toronto who has 2 low firsts this summer making this play as a rental. Possibly the Spurs also. Both teams have easy salary matched in Sullinger, who is out for the year, and Dedmon who would be rendered completely useless with Noel.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA 27s27 seconds ago
Sources: Atlanta GM Wes Wilcox has started informing teams today that Paul Millsap is no longer on the trade market.
Sources: Atlanta GM Wes Wilcox has started informing teams today that Paul Millsap is no longer on the trade market.
So the offers he got were nowhere near what he was hoping. Can't fault him for trying .
Yeah, but now he loses Millsap for nothing in free agency. Better to get something than nothing I would think.
Zach Lowe said on his podcast last week that it wouldn't be the worst idea to just resign Millsap since they're still a good team and they're already invested long-term in Bazemore and Howard (who are neither young or enticing to potential FAs). Essentially he's still a good enough player that they can keep him, try to find the right mix of role players and hope to hit on another 2014-15 type season.
That's a little different since he's 35 and they have Bembry and Hardaway ready to take his minutes. They don't have a way to replace Millsap. I think if Toronto wanted to give them Ross, Patterson and a first rounder they'd have to consider it, but I'm not sure that deal is out there.
Does Korver really fit into their plans? He'll be 36 in March, they have Hardaway and Shroeder has taken a huge step forward.
Well, they do currently have the fourth best record in the east, within striking distance of the 2 seed. They're not going to win the NBA title, but neither are the Celtics. Wining a playoff series isn't nothing.
if you're not ready to blow it up, all you do is help your biggest foe while you are still trying to compete...makes little sense
Atlanta can't possibly see itself as a rival to Cleveland this year. "Trying to compete" doesn't have to mean "We think we can win a championship".
I get that they are kind of stuck in the middle here---solid playoff team with Millsap, but not a title contender. And limited realistic options to get better quickly either way. So the fact they are testing different paths feels reasonable to me.
I think what's a little odd is making it so public that you're shopping him, and then that you're not. you don't need to be so public about it if you're doing either of those, and so the question is why do it this way?
I think what's a little odd is making it so public that you're shopping him, and then that you're not. you don't need to be so public about it if you're doing either of those, and so the question is why do it this way?
4th straight DNP-CD for Okafor. What would it take to get him as a flier? Hard to imagine his ability to contribute has fallen so far so fast from the trade rumors over the summer.
His ability to contribute to winning basketball is the same now as it was over the summer: nil. It's just that everybody can see it more clearly now that Philly is off to the races without him.
Chris Paul to undergo surgery for torn ligament in left thumb. Expected to miss 6-8 weeks, per team.
Sad to hear. One of the truly great players in the game, and doesn't get nearly the hype of many others.