Red Sox get Aaron Hill for Wilkerson and Rijo
- Thread starter johnnywayback
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Pomeranz is having a heck of a year, is young, not all that close to free agency, and strikes a lot of guys out. I think you have to lose one of Bencadeverspinoza.
edit: responding to post #46
edit: responding to post #46
I think any platooning is less about his neutralish splits and more about Hanley & Shaws huge ones.
Hill to 3B, with Shaw on the move for SP help seems like what this is signaling to me too. Holt also a possibility, with Shaw to LF.
There might be a gap in coverage at the hot corner in 2017 if Sandoval is a non-factor and Moncada isn't ready. Maybe Holt's your opening day starter in that case.
There might be a gap in coverage at the hot corner in 2017 if Sandoval is a non-factor and Moncada isn't ready. Maybe Holt's your opening day starter in that case.
Could you please consider using a variable other than "X" when discussing players who have been traded?
Here's what Sickels wrote about Wendell Rijo during the off-season:
8) Wendell Rijo, 2B, Grade B-/C+: Age 20, hit .260/.324/.381 with six homers, 15 steals, 34 walks, 94 strikeout in 404 at-bats in High-A, was just 19 for most of the season and playing considerably older competition. Power may increase further, defense took a large step forward in terms of reliability but tools likely limit him to second base.
He's currently hitting .186/.245/.266 in AA. Yuck. We've talked about Wilkerson. Aaron Hill is a solid bat off the bench that can cover the infield and probably learn 1B on the fly if he needs to play there (if we deal Shaw).
Good trade for a good bench upgrade from LaMarre to AHill.
8) Wendell Rijo, 2B, Grade B-/C+: Age 20, hit .260/.324/.381 with six homers, 15 steals, 34 walks, 94 strikeout in 404 at-bats in High-A, was just 19 for most of the season and playing considerably older competition. Power may increase further, defense took a large step forward in terms of reliability but tools likely limit him to second base.
He's currently hitting .186/.245/.266 in AA. Yuck. We've talked about Wilkerson. Aaron Hill is a solid bat off the bench that can cover the infield and probably learn 1B on the fly if he needs to play there (if we deal Shaw).
Good trade for a good bench upgrade from LaMarre to AHill.
Do I recall Hill liking to hit at Fenway when the Jays had him?
So does this mean they figure Chris Young is out for a long time and Holt is going to be in left not being able to fill in at third? OR is this just them trying to get more power from a RH hitter?
So does this mean they figure Chris Young is out for a long time and Holt is going to be in left not being able to fill in at third? OR is this just them trying to get more power from a RH hitter?
Great trade. 2+ months of a viable major league player for some organizational spare parts.
And for the folks who are wondering about Wilkerson, he would have gotten the start ahead of bullpen-Clay, if the club ever considered him a truly viable major league starter.
And for the folks who are wondering about Wilkerson, he would have gotten the start ahead of bullpen-Clay, if the club ever considered him a truly viable major league starter.
.308/.349/.490/.839 career slash line at Fenway... 7 home runs and 15 doubles in 198 at bats.
The case for Rijo is that he had that one really good year as an 18 year old in A ball, when he hit .254/.348/.416. The age 19 season was also solid. This year has been calamitous. If a change of scenery or new coaching can get him back to what he was doing, he's a prospect.
Todd RosiakVerified account@Todd_Rosiak
Stearns said the Brewers will have sufficient coverage at 3B with Will Middlebrooks and Hernan Perez. Jake Elmore can also play there.
I thought the same but while Hill has good #s I think (at least I was) you're thinking of Frank Catalonotto, who used to slaughter us.
I'm starting to warm up to moving Shaw. He's likely to always be average, bit below overall at 3rd, and who knows at 1st. Hill seems to project to do at least what Shaw's been doing at 3rd, enough to do a deal for the right SP.
I recall him being very good at first. I hate to give up on the guy this soon. He seems to be making some adjustments. But let's face it, they're going to have to trade somebody for pitching.
The Brewers AAA team is also located in Colorado Springs, CO - and their stadium is, believe it or not, 1,300 feet higher than Coors Field.
I'm not sure if that's "holy fuck not dead weight like Sandoval" talking.
Also yeah for reasons already stated in this thread Shaw/Holt look like the most expendable pieces at this point. Young isn't likely to have much value by the deadline.
Yeah, I don't think it'd be giving up on him, as opposed to cashing in on him. He's a solid player, and he's proven it for almost a full season now. Yes, he's slumped, but it sure looks to me like he's coming out of that, and when the guy is hot, he smokes the ball. He might well could bring back a good return for the mound.
Put me down as predicting they'll regret trading Wilkerson. I'm assuming they're working on adding a starter, but they're still relying on a knuckleballer and hoping on EdRod, and in the meantime SOS is scheduled to get the ball tomorrow. I'm obviously not a scout or pitching coach but it seems tough to miss so many bats in the high minors and not be at least useful at the next level.
Hill is whatever...obviously an improvement but he looked like he was on his way out of the majors coming into the year. Not a fan of the deal before giving Wilkerson a chance.
Hill is whatever...obviously an improvement but he looked like he was on his way out of the majors coming into the year. Not a fan of the deal before giving Wilkerson a chance.
And Reed Johnson, Overbay....there were several in the mid 2000's that killed us.
It's definitely "sell high" time on Shaw... I fear he is starting to turn back into a pumpkin. I like the trade.
Also, Rijo was demoted back down to Salem when Moncada moved up. Was tough on Rijo, but he was overmatched and (allegedly) has problems with concentration, leading to inconsistency in his performance.
Also, Rijo was demoted back down to Salem when Moncada moved up. Was tough on Rijo, but he was overmatched and (allegedly) has problems with concentration, leading to inconsistency in his performance.
I don't think this portends an immediate move (especially of Shaw) for pitching. DD seems to favor a bit more brute simplicity when compared to the previous few regimes' propensity for complicated stratagems. The Sox have been looking for a RHH bat off the bench for awhile, and you can overlook that he's not an OFer or his reverse splits in light of how he looks to have a good swing for Fenway and the relative cost to get him.
While it might be true that Shaw has played over his head he hasn't been slumping for a bit now. In the past 15 games his OPS is above .850...
I don't know, I think now is a sell low on Shaw and that he will be a very solid, if unspectacular, major leaguer. After the Middlebrooks Experience and Big Sandoval's Kitchen I'd think people wouldnt be so fast to jettison a guy who can play the corners competently and be a plus with the bat for a guy who has already proven he's nothing special (and that's not said to put him down).
Agree with all of this.
I'm not sure what people are expecting to get for Travis Shaw. Pitching at the deadline will be priced laughable for mediocrity and insane for quality. I don't want to give up Shaw for even Rich Hill's next DL stint.
Yup. It wouldn't be a shock if another deal happens, but it's not necessary in order for this to make sense on its own.
I would miss Shaw or Holt if they go, but they're the type of guys you give up if it gets you back a solid pitching asset.
I'm in the, this frees up Shaw as a cheap legit major league bat with positional versatility, now almost a full year sample size, camp. Ramirez is hitting well and playing a good 1B. Moncada is a year away at most. Maybe Panda comes back and can hit lefties again with a repaired shoulder.
They need a pitcher. Shaw in a package for Tehran is a lot better than Benintendi or Moncada in that package.
They need a pitcher. Shaw in a package for Tehran is a lot better than Benintendi or Moncada in that package.
Yeah, Hill is essentially Rutledge's replacement.
Not an essential piece, but an improvement. And for Wilkerson + Rijo, improvement at the MLB level is a good get.
I'm kinda thinking the Sox bought high on Hill. He was pretty lousy in 2014-15, and the decent numbers for 2017 seem driven by a ridiculously hot May. I think all this means is that despite the negative x-rays, they're still a bit worried about Shaw's foot.
Well, the Brewers believed enough in him to give up a player who surely has value and might get more as you approach the deadline. They were probably working in this deal and that's why Wilkerson wasn't called up. I think they had to give something to get something. Rijo was a complete flop at AA and no great shakes in Salem. Yeah, he's a year young for the levels he's at but that's all that keeps his value above zero.
Nothing earth shattering, and probably irrelevant barring an unfortunate injury to Pedey, but here's an article about Hill's defense at second base with some GIFs.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/aaron-hills-polarizing-defense/
Summary: Hill's below average with the glove, but can make some tough plays.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/aaron-hills-polarizing-defense/
Summary: Hill's below average with the glove, but can make some tough plays.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/trade-rumors-ervin-hellickson-redsox-phillies.html
- The Red Sox have been scouting Phillies right-hander Jeremy Hellickson lately tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports and MLB.com. ......... Dave Dombrowski said tonight on the conference call to discuss the Aaron Hill trade with the media that the fourth and fifth spots of his rotation are indeed areas of focus,........Hellickson could indeed fill one of those spots, as he’s delivered a solid 3.92 ERA with 7.9 K/9, 2.3 BB/9 and a 42.4 percent ground-ball rate in 105 2/3 innings. .....
They may have bought high on Hill but they also sold high on Wilkerson. He was independent ball in 2013 and has a FB that tops out at 92 and sits in the high 80s.
At 27 he is your classic AAAA pitcher.
http://news.soxprospects.com/2016/07/scouting-scratch-aaron-wilkerson.html
I don't see this as a prelude to a trade for Shaw either. To me it's replacing the primary right-handed bat off the bench who is currently on the DL with a torn hamstring. Those can take forever to heal. Hill can give days off to Shaw, Pedroia and Bogaerts. This way they can keep Holt in left and as the primary backup for Betts and JBJ with Brentz as his backup while Swihart goes through his rehab program. Once Swihart comes back, Brentz gets sent down again. Shaw stays at 3B while also being the back-up to Ramirez.
It's not just May. I would break his season into four parts.
1. Hill was ice-cold in April: .454 OPS.
2. In May, as you note, he was red-hot: 1.038, including a 3 HR game in Cincinnati.
3. The first two weeks of June, he slumped to a .582 OPS.
4. He has an .882 OPS in his 17 games since.
When Swihart is healthy again, I think he goes right back to AAA to catch. That's presuming his ankle returns to health which I'm not sure we should count on this year.
I agree with this assessment of Shaw and Moncada looks great right now in Portland (pretty similar to Salem except for walks being way down and trading 2B for HR). then again, I'd prefer prospects to force their way onto the roster more or less than move someone that I like in anticipation of their imminent success 2 levels beyond. I'd rather not jump back on the 3B carousel so quickly.
Sure it is, so is Buccholz for Tehran. Who else is in that package though so that both teams would agree to it? A Shaw-headlined package isn't bringing Tehran to Boston.
Hill has been a starter all of his career and the main assumption here is that he becomes a utility guy with the Sox, and mainly platoons with Shaw at 3B. I guess you do what you're told, but that means he gets to play 20-25% of the time, if that's the % of LHP. OK, he can also back up at second and short, but the guys that play there don't like to sit very often. So, unless Shaw is leaving and Hill gets 3B to himself, are we going to have a happy camper on our hands?
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Anyone else concerned about Hill's last two years in Arizona? His numbers are quite poor. Tough pitching in that division, but Chase Ballpark is supposed to be pretty hitter friendly. Hill had a couple of decent years, signed his big contract (or maybe it was an extension), and promptly shit the bed. His platoon split was virtually nonexistent for those two years. He is better this year so far, but taking the last three years together, he's underwhelming. Even with the platoon "advantage" he may not be that much better than Shaw against lefties.
Plus, bottom of the lineup guys platooning against lefty starters are kind of over-rated. You get maybe two ABs anyway, and then inevitably you're batting in the sixth inning against a righty reliever anyway.
And I agree with Al -- a $12 million platoon/utility guy is a definite malcontent risk.
Plus, bottom of the lineup guys platooning against lefty starters are kind of over-rated. You get maybe two ABs anyway, and then inevitably you're batting in the sixth inning against a righty reliever anyway.
And I agree with Al -- a $12 million platoon/utility guy is a definite malcontent risk.
As someone who's been to that bandbox many times, I can attest that it's quite hitter friendly, even by PCL standards.
At one point, the Rockies promoted their top pitching prospects from AA to avoid pitching there at all costs. It was one of the main factors why they moved their AAA team to Albuquerque.
Hill is very much like Holt. Positive, versatile and always upbeat. It would surprise me to see any displeasure outwardly.
This is true... and his downturn in production coincided with an injury.
Shaw has really impressed me and it looks like he's healthy again (coinciding with the his upturn in production). He's versatile (1st, 3rd, LF) with a great eye.... but I suspect he's actually undervalued not just by us, the FO, but also by other teams. He seems like a guy who will be a consistent 20HR, .850 OPS guy with some hot streaks and good (not great defense). With his versatility and the impending loss of Ortiz, he's the perfect fit to rotate through those positions- and one game at DH- without losing focus-