Adam Caplan @caplannfl 3m3 minutes ago
#Patriots and former #Jaguars TE Clay Harbor agreed to terms on a contract, source said.
#Patriots and former #Jaguars TE Clay Harbor agreed to terms on a contract, source said.
Cut Develin, use Harbor at FB in 2-back sets to block/provide an actual safety valve when passing out of the formation. They can also use him all over the field - pass protection in line or out of the backfield, receiver, flat option - from the gun. If he can actually carry the ball - like BB seems to imply with his comparison to Marcel Reese - all the better.As much fun as it would be to see a 5 wide set of Gronk, Bennett, Develin, Harbor and Williams, I doubt Harbor makes the final 53. If anything he seems like Develin insurance in case the leg injury isn't fully healed. They basically play the same position.
They had a lot of opportunity to use Williams at tackle last year with the injuries to Solder and Cannon and went with Fleming and Stork instead. I guess it's possible they change their minds, but I doubt Harbor, more of a move TE, factors into that at all.I think they really like Develin and wonder if this is a sign that they may play Williams more exclusively at - and have him focus more on - tackle. I'd love for that to be the case because it would tell me they see him as a positive internal solution at that position.
I'm pretty psyched about what Harbor could be in this offense.Cut Develin, use Harbor at FB in 2-back sets to block/provide an actual safety valve when passing out of the formation. They can also use him all over the field - pass protection in line or out of the backfield, receiver, flat option - from the gun. If he can actually carry the ball - like BB seems to imply with his comparison to Marcel Reese - all the better.
He seems too versatile to simply bring in for training camp fodder. I've done no research on him myself, but if he provides the kind of flexibility people have implied, I don't see him as as training camp casualty.
Maybe, but the difference is that now they could go into the season with Williams fully in a new role, as opposed to jumping into it last year when injuries forced their hand.They had a lot of opportunity to use Williams at tackle last year with the injuries to Solder and Cannon and went with Fleming and Stork instead. I guess it's possible they change their minds, but I doubt Harbor, more of a move TE, factors into that at all.
Williams had been working throughout his pro career as a tackle, including in the preseason last year before the Pats traded for him. After the Pats traded for him (about two weeks before the season opener), they moved him back to tight end. So he wouldn't have been jumping into tackle as a new role - he had been working there quite a bit. At any rate, they moved Fleming to left tackle and Stork to right tackle, both of which were new roles for them, rather than use Williams.Maybe, but the difference is that now they could go into the season with Williams fully in a new role, as opposed to jumping into it last year when injuries forced their hand.
Yeah, just eyeballing from way out, I would guess Williams is more on the bubble (with the Bennett and Harbor acquisitions) than either Dev or Harbor.Williams had been working throughout his pro career as a tackle, including in the preseason last year before the Pats traded for him. After the Pats traded for him (about two weeks before the season opener), they moved him back to tight end. So he wouldn't have been jumping into tackle as a new role - he had been working there quite a bit. At any rate, they moved Fleming to left tackle and Stork to right tackle, both of which were new roles for them, rather than use Williams.
I guess it's possible that the Pats traded for him planning to use him at tight end and have since decided he's not a fit there. He's certainly not a lock to make the roster.
Develin obviously doesn't have the resume that Harbor does but if I'm not mistaken he's been used at TE, FB, HB and out wide. Where else is there?I'm pretty psyched about what Harbor could be in this offense.
He doesn't seem to move like Hernandez despite the combine numbers. However, if you watch Reece play you can't believe the production that's possible with him either. If he brings half of what Reece does he's more than worth a roster spot.
Not sure where the Develin angle is coming from though. Harbor lines up in all kinds of places that Develin does not and cannot.
I'm pretty psyched about what Harbor could be in this offense.
He doesn't seem to move like Hernandez despite the combine numbers. However, if you watch Reece play you can't believe the production that's possible with him either. If he brings half of what Reece does he's more than worth a roster spot.
Not sure where the Develin angle is coming from though. Harbor lines up in all kinds of places that Develin does not and cannot.
Pretty sure I'm the only person that said that.Wow. Belichick compares the guy to Reese in how he lines up, not in skill or playmaking ability, and the whole board thinks Develin is now expendable... Crazy.
You have to admit, though: You are close to being the whole boardPretty sure I'm the only person that said that.
I reluctantly admit it.You have to admit, though: You are close to being the whole board
Develin is a key part to the run game. He's a fantastic lead blocker and teams have to be wary of his receiving skills. Oh, and Belichick LOVES him. He was a defensive end at Brown turned HB. If he was from NJ Bill may have adopted him.Is Develin actually good? As in good enough to be a dedicated FB. He's certainly an FB but when is the last time a FB was worthy of significantly dedicated assets? He seems relatively replaceable.
I'm sure opposing defenses are spending half the week game planning against his career 0.3 catches per gameteams have to be wary of his receiving skills.
http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/12/12/9891792/patriots-are-missing-james-develin-in-the-passing-gameI'm sure opposing defenses are spending half the week game planning against his career 0.3 catches per game
Since Develin took over as the lead fullback in 2013 through this stage of the 2015 season, the Patriots actually average 0.82 fewer yards per carry in the rushing game when Develin is on the field, versus when he is off the field. On the flip side, the Patriots passing attack averages 1.11 yards per play more with Develin in the backfield. The average passing play jumps from 6.39 yards per passing play (similar to Chad Henne) to 7.50 (closer to Drew Brees).
Why? Defenses actually have to respect the rushing game when Develin is on the field, and then he's also a threat in the passing game out of the play action. He keeps the linebackers occupied and thinking, while there's zero chance that teams have to account for Mason in the passing game.
If he couldn't he could probably bullshit you enough with vague comparisons that you'd come away impressed by his knowledge.I wonder if you could name any player to BB and he could immediately give a report and compare to another player.
First, no, he's not a key part of the run game, nor a "fantastic lead blocker". According to the article you clearly read but applied no critical thinking towards points out, the team rushes for roughly 20% more yards per play without him on the field. As a fullback, his number one job is to, you know, help the run game. Lorenzo Neal was a "fantastic lead blocker". James Develin is the face of a dying position.Develin is a key part to the run game. He's a fantastic lead blocker and teams have to be wary of his receiving skills. Oh, and Belichick LOVES him. He was a defensive end at Brown turned HB. If he was from NJ Bill may have adopted him.
One draft pick to watch out for is Dan Vitale, the "Superback" that has lined up everywhere atIf they both make the team, I suspect Develin gets on the field for conventional rushing downs and Harbor gets on the field for conventional passing downs.
http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/2/27/11125266/nfl-combine-studs-and-duds-running-backsIn short, this guy could have an Aaron Hernandez type role where he's a Joker TE that can line up all over the formation and be an effective receiver. Early on he's going to have to earn his way on Special Teams as a coverage player before working his way into the offense. He's not James Develin when it comes to being a road-grading fullback that can open holes yet, but there is room for growth in that area. Vitale has more upside as a receiver than Develin and can line up anywhere in the offensive formation, including tailback. My only concerns about him are pass protection and if he can separate from linebackers in single coverage.
Vitale looks interesting.One draft pick to watch out for is Dan Vitale, the "Superback" that has lined up everywhere at Northeastern (thanks @mascho!). I think BB trades the second of the 2nd round pick to get a day 2 & lower picks, and one of them could turn out to be Vitale. He's overlaps between what Develin and Harbor bring to the table.
http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/2/27/11125266/nfl-combine-studs-and-duds-running-backs
I mean, if we're going to be deleting ad hominem posts I assume that you just missed this one?More of the other 82%...
Correlation vs causation. I won't waste my time expounding on this idea in case it gets deleted.Well isn't that a bunch of nonsense. I get that the rushing numbers are less because the other teams see Develin and stack the box. Meaning they respect the rush attack. What you don't seem to get is that defenses didn't respect the run game with Develin off the field. Which would obviously lead to slightly increased rushing numbers and decreased passing numbers. And no we're not talking JUST Shaq Mason as player B. There were other players factored in the backfield since the numbers were tallied from 2013- present. Develin has a defined role in this offense AND he understands the scheme. If you don't see how that makes him different than 90% of the players in the league than I guess we're at an impasse.
As far as I can tell, Develin, Harbor, Bennett, and Williams are all free agents after the season, so FB/TE is a need, just not necessarily for 2016. Since few rookies contribute much as rookies, especially after the first round, it probably makes more sense to look at 2017 in terms of draft needs rather than this season.Vitale looks interesting.
But my hope is that they use their best draft picks on the positions of need that they have not addressed fully in free agency -- offensive line, RB and depth in the secondary. I realize what you're suggesting is not necessarily mutually exclusive with that. But another option at a hybrid type (RB/TE/HB/FB) seems like a luxury item at this point given the what seem to me to be real pressing needs on the o-line and RB, in particular.
He was a sixth round pick. The team's other sixth round pick was traded before the preseason for a guy who didn't even make the team. Derby was a longshot then and he's a longshot now.PS: What must AJ Derby be thinking now? He went from a guy who seemed to be in the mix to someone with some serious obstacles in front of him.
The Pats didn't have a fullback between Heath Evans and James Develin (2009-2012), and they didn't have one last year after Develin was put on IR at the start of September. There's definitely a precedent for not having a dedicated fullback for week 1.I don't think that Develin and Harbor are in any direct competition for a roster spot. Develin is the starting full back and I would be very surprised if he doesn't make the final roster. Clay Harbor has been in the league six years and this is his third team. He is a tight end who offers some positional flexibility in that he can line up as a receiver or as a full back. Regardless of the declining importance of the full back position I don't think the Patriots are cutting their starting full back with plans of starting a converted tight end on rushing plays.
If they both make the team, I suspect Develin gets on the field for conventional rushing downs and Harbor gets on the field for conventional passing downs.
Good points both. I was being short sighted when I wrote that.As far as I can tell, Develin, Harbor, Bennett, and Williams are all free agents after the season, so FB/TE is a need, just not necessarily for 2016. Since few rookies contribute much as rookies, especially after the first round, it probably makes more sense to look at 2017 in terms of draft needs rather than this season.
He was a sixth round pick. The team's other sixth round pick was traded before the preseason for a guy who didn't even make the team. Derby was a longshot then and he's a longshot now.
I agree talent is a problem on the OL, but upgrading through the draft is somewhat problematic. At the end of the second round, they're unlikely to find a tackle better than Solder or Vollmer, and what good is adding another talented, unproven youngster to an interior group that already has talented, unproven youngsters? I think the ideal is getting a guy at 60 or 61 who can compete at guard right away and maybe move to tackle long-term, but throwing a couple of third- or fourth- rounders at OL seems like a waste to me. They have guys like that. I think that's part of the reasoning trading for Cooper.Good points both. I was being short sighted when I wrote that.
At the same time, I do hope they will focus most of their best chits on o-line and RB because the Pats' on field success in 2016 depends, in part, on upgrading those two positions. As to the line, Dante should help but they need better personnel, too.