Very interesting that Raines, Bagwell, Schilling and Edgar all saw huge jumps in voting while Bonds and Clemens saw much more modest increases.
Or Trammell for that matter.What the hell do these people have against Raines?
Pete Abraham @PeteAbe 6m6 minutes agoPeter Abraham is leading the charge on making all ballots public and I agree with him.
I would love to know the three who didn't vote for Griffey and the reasons why.
The only way I can see the non-vote for Griffey being justified is if the voter thought "he's going to get in, let's use my vote for someone else".Peter Abraham is leading the charge on making all ballots public and I agree with him.
I would love to know the three who didn't vote for Griffey and the reasons why.
Some also voted for Bonds and not Clemens.Which is more inexplicable? Three voters not voting for Griffey, or four voters voting for Clemens but not Bonds?
Because there's been an increase in attention to the voting process -- with the purge of some voters, and the call for making all ballots public. Hell, Willie Mays isn't even in the Top 10 vote getters of all time.What makes Griffey any more of a no doubter that should have got 100% than Johnson Pedro or Maddux over the past 2 years? There seems to be much more ridicule this year for some reason.
I can imagine someone convincing themselves that Bonds was a HOF'er before he took steroids, while Clemens needed the late career push to put him over the top.Some also voted for Bonds and not Clemens.
Yes, he thanked Jonah Keri specifically. I suspect Keri might print that tweet out and frame it.meanwhile, tim raines with a series of very classy tweets, thanking people for their support
He's questioning my math, not my premise. 199 total votes for Clemens and 195 total votes for Bonds means at least 4 people voted for Clemens but not Bonds, rather than precisely 4 people.I can imagine someone convincing themselves that Bonds was a HOF'er before he took steroids, while Clemens needed the late career push to put him over the top.
Weird that it took so long, seems like the #1 picks have definitely gotten better with time. Teams didn't know what the hell they were doing for he first 20 years. Chipper will be the next, A-Rod would get in if not for roids, and then we wait and see what happens with Harper-Price-Strausburg-Cole-Correa.espn: With his election to this year's Hall of Fame class, Ken Griffey Jr. is the first No. 1 overall draft pick in MLB history in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
meanwhile, tim raines with a series of very classy tweets, thanking people for their support
Very classy indeed. One has to think he is inducted next year .. He's almost there and the "last year on the ballot" boost should get him over the top. Mind you that didn't seem to help my man Alan Trammell.Yes, he thanked Jonah Keri specifically. I suspect Keri might print that tweet out and frame it.
Classiest move was thanking the people of Montreal in French.
Apparently, he's making that decision public tomorrow.So I guess Piazza wants to wear a Mets cap right?
Not a sabermetrics fan, I take it?I never really "got" the Raines candidacy argument, so if any of his fans would like to channel their righteous indignation into argument format, I'd be interested to read it.
Bagwell, though... yeah.
Second greatest lead off hitter of all-time, cursed by playing in the same era as the greatest and in a media market that didn't get enough attention. OPS+ of 139 - the same as David Ortiz - and OBP of .385. All HOF numbers, and it's not even borderline.I never really "got" the Raines candidacy argument, so if any of his fans would like to channel their righteous indignation into argument format, I'd be interested to read it.
Bagwell, though... yeah.
I'd go Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Guerrero, Martinez, Mussina, Raines, Ramirez, Schilling, and either Sheff or Walker2017 ballot
Carryover (15, with 2015 vote percentage)
Jeff Bagwell 71.6%
Tim Raines 69.8% (last year on ballot)
Trevor Hoffman 67.3%
Curt Schilling 52.3%
Roger Clemens 45.2%
Barry Bonds 44.3%
Edgar Martinez 43.4%
Mike Mussina 43.0%
Lee Smith 34.1% (last year on ballot)
Fred McGriff 20.9%
Jeff Kent 16.6%
Larry Walker 15.5%
Gary Sheffield 11.6%
Billy Wagner 10.5%
Sammy Sosa 7.0%
Newly added (12, not a complete list)
Ivan Rodriguez
Manny Ramirez
Vladimir Guerrero
Javier Vazquez
Mike Cameron
J.D. Drew
Jorge Posada
Magglio Ordonez
Edgar Renteria
Derrek Lee
Tim Wakefield
Jason Varitek
(2018 highlights: Chipper Jones, Jim Thome, Omar Vizquel)
The decision is not his to make though, right?Apparently, he's making that decision public tomorrow.
"The Museum staff works with each inductee by suggesting an appropriate logo option, or no logo at all," Hall of Fame president Jeff Idelson said. "For those whose most compelling contributions clearly took place with one team, a logo makes sense. For those whose careers were built significantly among multiple teams, not having a team logo is equally acceptable. Regardless of the selection, a Hall of Famer belongs to every team for which he played or managed, as well as every fan who followed his career."The decision is not his to make though, right?
Raines reasoning in 5 words: He was really fucking good.I never really "got" the Raines candidacy argument, so if any of his fans would like to channel their righteous indignation into argument format, I'd be interested to read it.
That's awesome and I hope it happens, just to see so many "purists" heads' explode.Jim Bowden @JimBowden_ESPN 29m29 minutes ago
Jeff Idleson,President of the National Baseball Hall of Fame left open the possibility of Ken Griffey Jr. hat being on backwards on plaque
Most advocacy I've read for him revolved around steals (a very small fraction of anyone's value given the 71% threshold), and some sort of intangible value ascribed to being a "leadoff hitter" (as opposed to, you know, his value as a position player regardless of where his manager had him in the lineup). Being a great leadoff hitter seems like being a great bunter, in terms of its value as a superlative. Was the guy a truly great hitter, in general? Certainly well-above-average, no doubt. But if we're going to start putting people in the HOF for leading an increasingly narrowly-defined sub-segment of the MLB population, that would seem a very slippery slope indeed, when you consider, say, LOOGYs or closers or utility infielders.Not a sabermetrics fan, I take it?
...during his 1983-1989 peak. Over his own 7-year peak, David Ortiz averaged a 160 OPS+ and a .406 OBP. And even with one of the more astonishing runs of postseason glory since the days of the pre-draft Yankees, Ortiz is nevertheless considered a borderline case by non-Sox fans. Over a 7-year stretch, here's a few other OPS+ numbers:Second greatest lead off hitter of all-time, cursed by playing in the same era as the greatest and in a media market that didn't get enough attention. OPS+ of 139 - the same as David Ortiz - and OBP of .385. All HOF numbers, and it's not even borderline.
I didn't say I hadn't followed him, or was unaware of his career. If you'd been capable of fully reading my post despite your vision being clouded with rage as you typed, you would've seen me say that I just didn't get his candidacy, as in, not being a fan of his, the case didn't resonate with me. Had someone else asked for a full-throated defense of, say, Schilling, I might be inclined to get up on that wall; but Raines just isn't my guy. Clearly he has his supporters here, so I figured one or two would want to make their own case in public fashion.Simple: fuck you you lazy piece of shit for expecting others to convince you on a player you have not followed. It is too bad that there are no outlets on the the internet that convincingly show that he is one of the greatest leadoff hitters of all time.
Do some research then come here and form an argument.
The 139 OPS+ may have been a peak number, but just to be clear, the .385 OBP is a career number....during his 1983-1989 peak.
Absolutely. This year it's only 3 voters, but it's many more voters almost every year. There's no reason, for example, that Ricky Henderson or Greg Maddux shouldn't have received unanimous votes. Every voter should have the fear of public shame as an disincentive to play games. If they feel strongly about their reasons for leaving someone off, then people should be able to ask them what those reasons are.Peter Abraham is leading the charge on making all ballots public and I agree with him.
I would love to know the three who didn't vote for Griffey and the reasons why.