Arsenal 2015-2016: The One That Got Away
- Thread starter blueguitar322
- Start date
If things hold, these are our potential opponents in the R16:
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Atletico Madrid
Wolfsburg
Zenit
Anybody but Barcelona. Zenit or Wolfsburg would be ideal. We'd be underdogs against the Madrid clubs but I'd still give us a puncher's chance. But drawing Barcelona again would just blow.
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Atletico Madrid
Wolfsburg
Zenit
Anybody but Barcelona. Zenit or Wolfsburg would be ideal. We'd be underdogs against the Madrid clubs but I'd still give us a puncher's chance. But drawing Barcelona again would just blow.
89 min: “Is this one of the least Arsenal-esque performances of recent times?” wonders Tom Atkins. “Big name players delivering, no late dramas, no injuries and a magnificent hat-trick by a big striker. Satchel may not be on the field but the impact he’s had on the side is evident.” It’s going to be weird hearingArsenal fans not being able to complain about anything.
At this point, I don't care who we play. Anything after this is playing with house money.
Of course, by next Monday I'll change my mind and be really upset if we draw Barca or Real after drawing Bayern in the group stage.
Of course, by next Monday I'll change my mind and be really upset if we draw Barca or Real after drawing Bayern in the group stage.
Let's state the obvious: when you're chasing the league title, two games and out in the Champions League is better than an extended Thursday hell in the Europa League. So tonight was nice.
Avoiding Sp*rsday football was essential.
Gol Campbell was the man of the match for me, honestly. I know Giroud had all the goals but Campbell was goddamn everywhere. Set up the 2nd goal brilliantly and was just relentless on tracking back and playing defense. You could tell it meant something for him to play against and beat his former loan team. Maybe bitterness that they had the chance to buy him after the loan and simply returned him to London?
Campbell was fantastic. I agree 100% with you that the second goal was amazing but the relentless workrate really stood out, as it has in other recent matches too. I don't know if he'll ever be a star but I could see him being a very valuable squad player - sort of like how Park Ji-Sung was for Manchester United for many years - as a winger that you can trust to work his ass off, come up with a few big moments in the final third, and generally serve as a useful tactical piece. For me, he has earned the starting RW position ahead of Ox (assuming Ramsey is in CM for a while) and I hope Wenger keeps giving him chances.
All of which sounds pretty incredible for a player Wenger bought and then refused to use until circumstances forced his hand. Sounds remarkably like Coquelin, doesn't it? There's nothing quite like squad depth hiding in plain sight...I wish I knew whether Arsene was in on the joke or not.
By the by, appropos of nothing, while looking at the Arsenal Academy squad...
http://www.arsenal.com/academy/players
...to see who the next potential Coquelin/Campbell phoenix-from-the-ashes type might be, I've realised that we're secretly compiling an all-name team to beat all all-name teams. Seriously, you could field this XI in the U21 league right now:
Goalie: Hugo Keto
Defenders: Ilias Chatzitheodoridis, Julio Pleguezuelo, Tolaji Bola (aka "Tolaj Ebola"), Chiori Johnson
Midfielders: Ismael Bennacer, Vlad Dragomir, Savvas Mourgos, Jeff Reine-Adelaide (aka "JEFF")
Attackers: Yassin Fortune, Stephy Mavididi
Subs: Deyan Iliev, Kristopher da Graca, Tafari Moore, Jordi Osei-Tutu, Kostas Pileas, Marcus Agyei-Tabi, Kaylen Hinds, Alex Iwobi, Edward Nketiah, Donyell Malen
And that's not even including loanees Gedion Zelalem, Wellington Silva and the immortal Ainsley Maitland-Niles (Conservative).
http://www.arsenal.com/academy/players
...to see who the next potential Coquelin/Campbell phoenix-from-the-ashes type might be, I've realised that we're secretly compiling an all-name team to beat all all-name teams. Seriously, you could field this XI in the U21 league right now:
Goalie: Hugo Keto
Defenders: Ilias Chatzitheodoridis, Julio Pleguezuelo, Tolaji Bola (aka "Tolaj Ebola"), Chiori Johnson
Midfielders: Ismael Bennacer, Vlad Dragomir, Savvas Mourgos, Jeff Reine-Adelaide (aka "JEFF")
Attackers: Yassin Fortune, Stephy Mavididi
Subs: Deyan Iliev, Kristopher da Graca, Tafari Moore, Jordi Osei-Tutu, Kostas Pileas, Marcus Agyei-Tabi, Kaylen Hinds, Alex Iwobi, Edward Nketiah, Donyell Malen
And that's not even including loanees Gedion Zelalem, Wellington Silva and the immortal Ainsley Maitland-Niles (Conservative).
Incidentally, I'm pretty sure Arsenal have an even 20% chance of drawing each of these five teams. Normally that wouldn't work out so neatly, insofar as usually you wind up in a situation where another Spanish team would have finished second in its group and therefore couldn't draw Barca/Real/Atletico, making Arsenal that much more likely to get one of them. But the breakdown of the last 16 by nationality is pretty remarkable - only England had teams finish both first and second in the group stage:
England (3): Chelsea (1st in their group), Man City (1st), Arsenal (2nd)
Spain (3): Real Madrid (1st), Barcelona (1st), Atletico Madrid (1st)
Germany (2): Wolfsburg (1st), Bayern Munich (1st)
Italy (2): Juventus (2nd), Roma (2nd)
The remaining six countries each had only one team go through: France (PSG), Netherlands (PSV), Portugal (Benfica), Ukraine (Dynamo Kiev), Russia (Zenit) and Belgium (Gent).
The knockout stage draw takes place at 6 a.m. ET on Monday, by the way.
I hate to ruin this because it is quite odd in a perfect sort of way as you note, but Zenit can't draw Dynamo Kiev.
The upshot from what I understand is that we're slightly more likely to draw Zenit than the other four clubs.
Wait...what? UEFA treats Russia and Ukraine as being the same country? Which part of the Putin-FIFA conspiracy is this connected to?
I'm thinking this is more "We don't want away fans killing home fans and vice versa", given you're talking arguably the two most strongly nationalist clubs in Russia and Ukraine.
Congrats on getting through guys, even if only to avoid the Eastern European thursday night clashes.
I don't know what Olympiakos was doing but there was space all over the pitch through the middle, and a team with Arsenal's caliber will cut you up with time and space. Either way, cheers on a pretty impressive group stage comeback.
I don't know what Olympiakos was doing but there was space all over the pitch through the middle, and a team with Arsenal's caliber will cut you up with time and space. Either way, cheers on a pretty impressive group stage comeback.
Thanks, DH.
Question for those that watched the whole game and not just the highlights: I noticed that there were many instances, especially early on, where Olympiakos had their own share of chances, especially coming off of the wings. What is the main attribution to that? Was it the width that they had? Was it the openness of the game and how much Arsenal were pursuing goals? Did Arsenal adjust at all to this?
It looked like Nacho was under pressure, which really hasn't been the case much this year.
Question for those that watched the whole game and not just the highlights: I noticed that there were many instances, especially early on, where Olympiakos had their own share of chances, especially coming off of the wings. What is the main attribution to that? Was it the width that they had? Was it the openness of the game and how much Arsenal were pursuing goals? Did Arsenal adjust at all to this?
It looked like Nacho was under pressure, which really hasn't been the case much this year.
Wingers (Joel and Theo) weren't properly tracking back to help the fullbacks and when those guys pushed up too, they were getting caught out. Arsene must've said something and I think Theo and Joel might've even swapped sides after 15-20 minutes and the problem went away. The announcers did note early on that the Arsenal attackers were perhaps pushing too hard for a goal.
It seemed to me that Olympiakos was targeting Bellerin in particular and that when Wenger swapped Campbell onto that side, our shape got a lot stronger. Wenger probably wanted to play Theo at RW because that's where he is most comfortable and dangerous in attack, but the combination of Theo and Bellerin on the right - plus Mertesacker being the right sided CB and with Flamini instead of the more mobile Coquelin sitting in front - is really not a good one. We give up too much space to counter into and then often leave the BFG stranded in wide spaces in unsettled situations against opponents and that's a dangerous formula. Once Alexis returns and we can play him at LW, Campbell RW, and alternate Theo and Giroud through the middle, I think we'll be in better shape.
This is a pretty good example of that Bellerin-Theo-Mertesacker trio just falling apart against a counter down on our right. Theo is nowhere to be seen, Bellerin has positioned himself too high up the pitch and can't get back in time to stop the attack or prevent the next pass, and Mertesacker is totally helpless in these situations.
No Alexis Sunday. Hopefully, he's back for City. Need to scrape together another win. Hopefully, Giroud continues to fire.
2010 Barca
2011 Barca
2013 Bayern
2014 Bayern
2016 Barca
Well, any given Wednesday and all that but the football gods continue to make it easy for Arsenal to focus on the league and FA Cup.
2011 Barca
2013 Bayern
2014 Bayern
2016 Barca
Well, any given Wednesday and all that but the football gods continue to make it easy for Arsenal to focus on the league and FA Cup.
Can't say that Arsenal hasn't had a chance to play some of the best teams in the world. Can't complain about it either, since that's what I love about the Champions League. Facing off against those teams...
..even though I don't really get to watch these matches anymore.
..even though I don't really get to watch these matches anymore.
Well, fuck.
I will say this: I think this is the best Arsenal team for a long while and that we match up better with this version of Barcelona than previous editions under Guardiola or those ridiculously dominant Bayern teams. Without fucking Xavi around, we will get a sniff of the ball and actually have a chance to play. I think we have the players to hurt them on the counter and to find 2-4 goals across the two legs. But our back six (esp Ramsey - who I assume will be at CM - and Bellerin) will have to stay tactically disciplined so that we don't get caught out and then play out of their minds in the lengthy spells that we'll be under pressure. Its a longshot but we have a chance.
I will say this: I think this is the best Arsenal team for a long while and that we match up better with this version of Barcelona than previous editions under Guardiola or those ridiculously dominant Bayern teams. Without fucking Xavi around, we will get a sniff of the ball and actually have a chance to play. I think we have the players to hurt them on the counter and to find 2-4 goals across the two legs. But our back six (esp Ramsey - who I assume will be at CM - and Bellerin) will have to stay tactically disciplined so that we don't get caught out and then play out of their minds in the lengthy spells that we'll be under pressure. Its a longshot but we have a chance.
Guys. It's Barca. There's always a way in football but that team is far more likely to embarrass you than you are to score 4 goals. There's no shame in going out to them if it happens. They've made City look like a pub team on multiple occasions.
Speaking of embarrassing and pub teams, I think you're about to look like Barca next week. I can't remember the last time I had less confidence heading into a match. I'd rip someone's hands off for a draw right now.
Speaking of embarrassing and pub teams, I think you're about to look like Barca next week. I can't remember the last time I had less confidence heading into a match. I'd rip someone's hands off for a draw right now.
If they stay healthy and hit the form of last spring, we're going to get hammered. But that's not a given.
I'm feeling pretty good about next Monday but you never know. I expect Pelligrini to play cautiously like he did at Old Trafford, maybe with both Fernandinho and Delph as twin DMs, and wouldn't be surprised if it's a cautious match that only opens up if and when either side scores.
My gut feeling is that not having Cazorla or Coquelin will make life tough for Arsenal.
It will be interesting to see Wenger's tactics for this one. The past few games against City, Arsenal have given away the majority of possession and played a very conservative 4-1-4-1. I can't see that working as well with a midfield trio of Ozil/Ramsey/Flamini.
It will be interesting to see Wenger's tactics for this one. The past few games against City, Arsenal have given away the majority of possession and played a very conservative 4-1-4-1. I can't see that working as well with a midfield trio of Ozil/Ramsey/Flamini.
Ha, yeah, I'm not at all confident, but the defeatist attitude is really annoying. Not sure Arsenal has a puncher's chance against a full strength Barcelona, but I'd rather be playing the Barcas of the world on Tuesdays and Wednesday than playing in the central Jutland region of Denmark on Thursday.
I hope you're right on City's form. I'd love to see a thrashing of your boys in person.
I'm very afraid of the City match. On form, Arsenal should have thrashed Chelsea earlier this season as well...and against proper opposition, even opposition playing as indifferently as Man City, I'm not convinced Arsenal has the confidence to automatically rise to the challenge and play like they did against Man Utd. For me, Monday night is a crapshoot.
Alexis not in our squad, Aguero starting for City.
We are playing the same lineup as last weekend. Giroud up top and Campbell, Ozil, Theo behind. City look to be playing Aguero up top, Silva in the hole, and Delph and De Bruyne on the wings. Kompany didn't make the squad so its Mangala-Otamendi in central defense.
We are playing the same lineup as last weekend. Giroud up top and Campbell, Ozil, Theo behind. City look to be playing Aguero up top, Silva in the hole, and Delph and De Bruyne on the wings. Kompany didn't make the squad so its Mangala-Otamendi in central defense.
Meanwhile, it looks like Alexis won't be back until Jan 10th and the timelines on both Wilshere (late January?) and Welbeck (February?) have been pushed back. We are going to be desperately thin ovre the next ten days and I really, really hope Wenger doesn't push certain players - especially Aaron Ramsey - too hard.
We desperately need to buy both a midfielder and a forward capable of playing through the middle this January. We don't even need to buy quality, which would be ideal but is almost impossible to do during the winter break, we simply need warm bodies that are at least replacement level Premier League players.
We desperately need to buy both a midfielder and a forward capable of playing through the middle this January. We don't even need to buy quality, which would be ideal but is almost impossible to do during the winter break, we simply need warm bodies that are at least replacement level Premier League players.
How do you define "replacement level" in this context, MMS? Is that the Flamini level? Chambers? Gnabry? Rosicky? (Actually, is Rosicky still alive?) I fear that even if Wenger does buy someone in January, he'll wait until the end of January in search of maximum monetary value instead of buying in early January to maximise on-the-pitch playing value.
Don't get me wrong - I'm super excited to be four points clear of Man City and further clear of the other realistic title contenders.* But this could easily become the year where Wenger's transfer policy is directly responsible for Arsenal failing to win a title they are favored to win halfway through the season. Thank God Joel Campbell came good...
(*Leicester isn't a realistic title contender, is it? Is it?)
Don't get me wrong - I'm super excited to be four points clear of Man City and further clear of the other realistic title contenders.* But this could easily become the year where Wenger's transfer policy is directly responsible for Arsenal failing to win a title they are favored to win halfway through the season. Thank God Joel Campbell came good...
(*Leicester isn't a realistic title contender, is it? Is it?)
Replacement-level is probably not a great term when talking about football, so let's scratch that and just say squad players. For example, I'd be very happy to add the Russian guy Kokorin that has been rumored. I doubt he's better than Walcott or Giroud, but he's a legitimate striker we can bring off the bench and he'll only cost 4-5m from the sound of it. Right now our attacking threats on the bench are Ox, Iwobi, and Gibbs, which is just freaking ridiculous. I think we have the quality to win the league but we're going to suffer if we have further injuries and we go through a spell where we literally have no strikers or no CMs that can pick a pass.
Basically, I'm not counting on anything from Welbeck, who has no clear return date and will probably have missed close to a year of football if and when he does come back, or Cazorla, who won't be back until mid-April by the sound of it. We desperately need players that can just do a job in those positions, providing a striking option off the bench and another midfield option.
Yeah, that all sounds about right.
For the record, the transfer window opens on 2 January. In theory, that means Arsenal only has three more matches to get through (at Southampton and home to Bournemouth and Newcastle - hardly a murderer's row) before reinforcements can arrive. But if Wenger waits for the transfer deadline on 1 February before buying, those reinforcements would potentially miss league matches at Liverpool and Stoke and home to Chelsea. That's why buying early is sooooo important.
For the record, the transfer window opens on 2 January. In theory, that means Arsenal only has three more matches to get through (at Southampton and home to Bournemouth and Newcastle - hardly a murderer's row) before reinforcements can arrive. But if Wenger waits for the transfer deadline on 1 February before buying, those reinforcements would potentially miss league matches at Liverpool and Stoke and home to Chelsea. That's why buying early is sooooo important.
In that way, I don't think our (most of the posters in this thread) assessment of what Arsenal needed/needs has changed since the start of the Summer. It's more the case that those needs are even more prevalent now due to the extremely predictable injuries that have occurred. I doubt business moves fast in this transfer window though. Wenger's got to go for it. This is Arsenal's best chance at the League in years and a reinforcement or two could make all of the difference. Win the league, bring in a star or two more, and take a shot at Europe.
A lot of news sources are now reporting that we're going to sign Basel midfielder Mohamed Elneny right at the beginning of the transfer window. This looks like more than your usual transfer rumor mill stuff and, unlike links to players like Ruben Neves or Adrian Rabiot, its a very believable rumor - Basel will win their league with or without Elneny, they're not in the Champions League anymore, and he's exactly the type of cheap under-the-radar player that Wenger likes.
From what I can tell, Elneny is an athletic DM that can also pull the strings from deep and pick a pass. Its a tiny sample (5 games, 450 minutes), but in the Europa League this fall he was 2nd among all players in passes completed per game (92), 8th in pass completion percentage (92), and first among all midfielders in long balls (8). I've been saying for a while that we needed a central midfielder that could play alongside Coquelin in the Cazorla role or alongside Ramsey in a lone DM role and this guy at least fits the profile in the abstract.
With Leicester losing, we can go top with a win today. We haven't won at St. Mary's in forever, but Southampton is in awful form so we may be meeting them at the right time.
From what I can tell, Elneny is an athletic DM that can also pull the strings from deep and pick a pass. Its a tiny sample (5 games, 450 minutes), but in the Europa League this fall he was 2nd among all players in passes completed per game (92), 8th in pass completion percentage (92), and first among all midfielders in long balls (8). I've been saying for a while that we needed a central midfielder that could play alongside Coquelin in the Cazorla role or alongside Ramsey in a lone DM role and this guy at least fits the profile in the abstract.
With Leicester losing, we can go top with a win today. We haven't won at St. Mary's in forever, but Southampton is in awful form so we may be meeting them at the right time.
Having reflected on last night's disaster, I'm surprisingly sanguine. It was a bad stylistic matchup, particularly given Arsenal's injury problems and the team Wenger had to pick, but it was the sort of match where Arsenal might have snuck a draw or even a win had several key moments not gone wrong - the first goal was a total fluke (a great and incredibly skillful fluke, but an unrepeatable fluke all the same), and the second down to a clear foul on Long in the build-up which the ref somehow missed. Take those away and anything can happen; with them, Southampton's momentum snowballed, and a woefully-out-of-form Ox isn't exactly the spark plug you need to fire up a lackadaisical performance. Six points out of six in the next two games are now essential, but until tomorrow evening I'm not about to panic.
Agree completely. Just beat Bournemouth and Newcastle and we'll be perfectly fine.
I'm officially very nervous for this match, and not just because we really need the three points. Wenger is playing with fire putting Ramsey out there two days after his last game. All his major leg muscle injuries in the last few years have occurred when he has played two matches in a short span of time.
Good win and no injuries.
Ozil had 9 key passes (including an assist) and a goal and was on 95% passing accuracy. If Walcott and Giroud had come to play, he might already have the PL assist record.
Cech now has the all-time clean sheets record too. Mostly a Chelsea record but still have to pinch myself that he's now wearing red and white. So much more assured than anyone else over the last 10 years.
I also thought Chambers acquitted himself really well as DM. A bit shaky first 15 minutes but then helped control the game ever since. Better footwork than Coq/Flamini for sure.
Now rest up and recover for Newcastle on Saturday.
Ozil had 9 key passes (including an assist) and a goal and was on 95% passing accuracy. If Walcott and Giroud had come to play, he might already have the PL assist record.
Cech now has the all-time clean sheets record too. Mostly a Chelsea record but still have to pinch myself that he's now wearing red and white. So much more assured than anyone else over the last 10 years.
I also thought Chambers acquitted himself really well as DM. A bit shaky first 15 minutes but then helped control the game ever since. Better footwork than Coq/Flamini for sure.
Now rest up and recover for Newcastle on Saturday.
Another good game to be at.
I thought Arsenal started shaky. Ramsey, Giroud, and Theo all struggled, but Ramsey especially looked poor to start. I thought that he looked better as the game went on, but definitely not his best. While I agree that Chambers acquitted himself well, I do feel that he's not comfortable with the passing aspect of the game. He slows things down a lot and doesn't look to switch it much. Most of his passes seemed to go to one of the centerbacks. While his final ball or shot weren't on tonight, I thought Ox was rather lively. He took guys on with success and did a decent job of tracking back. Hopefully, tonight was a confidence boost for him.
Of course, the men of the match were Ozil and Gabriel. What can you say about Ozil that hasn't already been said. He's one of those rare footballers that both sees and can make the killer ball. Just an otherworldly gift from the gods. Gabriel was finding the ball on corners and was bossing it defensively. I love the man's fearlessness. He doesn't back down. I thought he was particularly great in the back.
Good win.
I thought Arsenal started shaky. Ramsey, Giroud, and Theo all struggled, but Ramsey especially looked poor to start. I thought that he looked better as the game went on, but definitely not his best. While I agree that Chambers acquitted himself well, I do feel that he's not comfortable with the passing aspect of the game. He slows things down a lot and doesn't look to switch it much. Most of his passes seemed to go to one of the centerbacks. While his final ball or shot weren't on tonight, I thought Ox was rather lively. He took guys on with success and did a decent job of tracking back. Hopefully, tonight was a confidence boost for him.
Of course, the men of the match were Ozil and Gabriel. What can you say about Ozil that hasn't already been said. He's one of those rare footballers that both sees and can make the killer ball. Just an otherworldly gift from the gods. Gabriel was finding the ball on corners and was bossing it defensively. I love the man's fearlessness. He doesn't back down. I thought he was particularly great in the back.
Good win.
Ozil's ball to Theo (that Theo of course bungled because he's a bum) was the stuff of wet dreams. Just ridiculous ability.
