Zion train is coming our way

the moops

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I do think an inch makes a difference. 6'7" with mediocre wingspan is small for a PF, very small nearly unplayable for a center. 6'6" with mediocre wingspan is probably unplayable at the 5, and is starting to be an issue at the 4. It's partially what the height also tells us, we can look at him and see his reach and wingspan ratios to his body, if he's 6'5" or 6'6" there is an effect on reach and wingspan, and those are very important for the ability to play a "big" position in the NBA.
He does not have mediocre wingspan though. 6' 10.5" wingspan and 8'7" standing reach. Pair those with his insane jumping ability and body - you have someone who plays much bigger.

At this point the dude is a concensus top of the draft pick. Seems folish to focus on what he can't do
 

LondonSox

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I've said this before, but he has to develop an NBA skill that isn't just the ability to jump high. Can he pass? Can he shoot? Play really good defense? Watching him play against top competition in college is going to tell us a lot; him and Bol Bol are the two most interesting prospects to me.
He can pass and rebound and finish at the rim, if he can shoot OR defend he's a real prospect. I'm unclear on either but
 

Kliq

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He can pass and rebound and finish at the rim, if he can shoot OR defend he's a real prospect. I'm unclear on either but
I don’t know if he can pass and rebound really though; all we’ve seen is him in HS. He’s a different kid of prospect than Barrett; to me he really needs to prove himself in college against better competition.
 

LondonSox

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I don’t know if he can pass and rebound really though; all we’ve seen is him in HS. He’s a different kid of prospect than Barrett; to me he really needs to prove himself in college against better competition.
Sure he needs to prove himself but the idea you can't tell if he can pass or rebound in HS is a little silly. Sure there are questions but otherwise I would love to know how teams are going to draft from HS again soon.
Rebounding instincts and timing show, sure you can understand that some he is not really contested on etc but you can tell if there is natural ability there.
Passing too, he's really good at passing in transition which requires passing on the move at speed and being aware of others at pace. Now I'm not saying that means he will be good but he tries, in harder circumstances and in free flow pace basketball.

His highlights already show this, tip offensive rebounds to open players?

Yes I want to see more but let's not pretend he's a mystery box with nothing known.

I think defense is the one that you really can't take much from HS, other than rim protection and one vs one defense and even then with large salt pinches
 

chilidawg

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He does not have mediocre wingspan though. 6' 10.5" wingspan and 8'7" standing reach. Pair those with his insane jumping ability and body - you have someone who plays much bigger.

At this point the dude is a concensus top of the draft pick. Seems folish to focus on what he can't do
But he's really not the consensus top pick. I can't find a single mock that has him at the top.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Sure he needs to prove himself but the idea you can't tell if he can pass or rebound in HS is a little silly.
Yeah, the guy is 6'6", 285 and on one of the videos, his head came really close to hitting the rim and he pinned a ball that looked like it was 2/3rds up the backboard. He's going to be able to rebound.

He looks like he is just as explosive as Robert Williams but bigger.
 

sezwho

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This may not be correct about this guy, but many great athletes toil away as undersized forwards that could be great football players. Other than footbal killing you, some of those guys should switch sports.
If he went the direction of the NFL I think his size, wingspan and athleticism would be better served as a Left Tackle than TE (as would his salary and likely career length).

Also, I think the judges would also have accepted 'Iron like a Lion in Zion'
 

Sam Ray Not

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Was about to post. Very impressive — kinda reminds me of Z-Bo and Mike Conley Jr. all rolled into one.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Duke fans have got to be encouraged by the apparent chemistry between Zion and RJ. You can tell they like playing with each other. This team should be a blast to watch once Reddish and Jones come back and they start playing some decent competition.
 

chilidawg

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Was about to post. Very impressive — kinda reminds me of Z-Bo and Mike Conley Jr. all rolled into one.
I don't know how you watch that and not be impressed. His skill level is quite a bit better than I'd been led to believe.
 

DrewDawg

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Zion Williamson doesn't look like an NBA starter is his future to me. Maybe he develops, but he's a 6'5" center, he appears to have zero skills, his agility is garbage, he's just strong and a good vertical leaper.
You still think this after seeing that video?
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Funny that people keep talking about his being a tight end, because I saw Antonio Gates play basketball a lot when he was at Kent State and that's basically exactly what he looked like.
 

reggiecleveland

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I don't know how you watch that and not be impressed. His skill level is quite a bit better than I'd been led to believe.
I think this kid is really good, so this is just cautionary. He is tantalizing prospect and his quickness off his feet reminds me of Barkely.

But, it is a big difference from that team to the NBA, even to good D1. (I played for a team better than that McGill team) The biggest difference from Canadian ball to the NCAA is the size and athleticism of the forwards. Every time he put it on the floor and went to a secondary move he could simply over power the guys with little trouble. I played against Lorenzo Chalres who did similar things to guys at our level, though ZW is probably a lot better.

The way the game is spread out now IMHO makes heavy guys not as big an injury risk as when the had to compete for rebounds in traffic every possession and step on feet, get knockd down, come down hard, etc.
 

TripleOT

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Zion has explosiveness that no player that big has ever had. Barkley was a freak, but he never was hand over the square shot blocking freaky, or hit your head on the rim when dunking freaky.

This was my first extended look at Williamson. Wow. He was shown making one jumper in the last video, and looked pretty smooth hitting it. He hit a handful or threes in the first game. ZW doesn't look like the kind of guy who wants to settle for jumpers. Zion had a couple of nice passes along with the many rack attacks.

Of course, he's going to need to stretch the floor to be more than a sideshow in the NBA. I can't imagine Coach K letting him take a lot of outside shots with the bomb squad that K can put around him. We might not get a full understanding of his shooting ability, or lack of it, during his college career.
 

lovegtm

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Zion has explosiveness that no player that big has ever had. Barkley was a freak, but he never was hand over the square shot blocking freaky, or hit your head on the rim when dunking freaky.

This was my first extended look at Williamson. Wow. He was shown making one jumper in the last video, and looked pretty smooth hitting it. He hit a handful or threes in the first game. ZW doesn't look like the kind of guy who wants to settle for jumpers. Zion had a couple of nice passes along with the many rack attacks.

Of course, he's going to need to stretch the floor to be more than a sideshow in the NBA. I can't imagine Coach K letting him take a lot of outside shots with the bomb squad that K can put around him. We might not get a full understanding of his shooting ability, or lack of it, during his college career.
He should get to the line enough to generate some data points there though.
 

chilidawg

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I think this kid is really good, so this is just cautionary. He is tantalizing prospect and his quickness off his feet reminds me of Barkely.

But, it is a big difference from that team to the NBA, even to good D1. (I played for a team better than that McGill team) The biggest difference from Canadian ball to the NCAA is the size and athleticism of the forwards. Every time he put it on the floor and went to a secondary move he could simply over power the guys with little trouble. I played against Lorenzo Chalres who did similar things to guys at our level, though ZW is probably a lot better.

The way the game is spread out now IMHO makes heavy guys not as big an injury risk as when the had to compete for rebounds in traffic every possession and step on feet, get knockd down, come down hard, etc.
Obviously his physicality and explosiveness stood out against McGill, not surprising given the competition. But what really impressed me was his skill level. He made pull up mid range shots off the dribble, spot up 3's, difficult layups and had several nice assists. Looking forward to seeing him against the big boys of the NCAA.
 

Jimbodandy

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He should get to the line enough to generate some data points there though.
I was thinking the same thing. We'll get data points from three, but even more so from the line. He'll get to the line a lot.

A respectable percentage from there for an 18yo would do a lot to dispel doubt. A poor performance will add to the doubt.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Zion with a 25/7/7 night, shooting 11/13 from the field. As of now, he has the highest recorded BPM of any college player with meaningful minutes at 20.6. Anthony Davis is second at 18.7. KAT is the only other freshman to finish above 16 since they started keeping track in 2010.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&class_is_fr=Y&class_is_so=Y&class_is_jr=Y&class_is_sr=Y&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&games_type=A&c1stat=bpm&c1comp=gt&c1val=16&c2stat=mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=500&order_by=bpm

Only a handful of freshman have finished above 12.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&class_is_fr=Y&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&games_type=A&c1stat=bpm&c1comp=gt&c1val=12&c2stat=mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=500&order_by=bpm

His jump shot is still very much a question mark- 27% from 3 on 37 attempts, 67.5%FT on 114 attempts- but this thread has come a long way from the "is he even an NBA player?" days. Barring injury, the question now is where does he rank among #1 overall picks?
 

TripleOT

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I'm picking Zion at 1 and worrying about his jumper later. The 67.5% from the FT line for a freshman is a decent indicator that he can shoot. He's a 21st century Barkley with a better body and more lift/athleticism. Hopefully he will fall to two and the Sacto pick can get lucky at the lottery.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'm picking Zion at 1 and worrying about his jumper later. The 67.5% from the FT line for a freshman is a decent indicator that he can shoot. He's a 21st century Barkley with a better body and more lift/athleticism. Hopefully he will fall to two and the Sacto pick can get lucky at the lottery.
Zero chance he isn't picked at 1. Nobody is that stupid anymore. Fans are more informed and can follow guys like this for years.

Unless someone has a crystal ball portending a future of injuries or another freak problem AND job security up the wazoo, I just can't see it. He has shown more than enough already.
 

Kliq

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I was a skeptic of Zion just because it was impossible to tell how good he actually was in high school.

Seeing him at Duke has answered a lot of those questions. He's amazing and his efficiency is tremendous. You could talk me into Barrett being a better prospect because his game seems to have a natural fit more than Zion, but I'd take Zion #1 right now.
 

BigSoxFan

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As much as it'd suck for the Celtics, Zion going to the Knicks would be a great thing for the NBA.
 

lovegtm

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As much as it'd suck for the Celtics, Zion going to the Knicks would be a great thing for the NBA.
I'm very at peace with the Knicks getting good players. It's great for the NBA, MSG games are fun, and you know the Knicks will always f things up enough that they top out as a 4 seed, even with a generational talent. Everyone wins.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Yep, I don't know how any team, especially a team looking to you know, sell tickets and make money, could possibly pass on Zion.

That said, if I have the #2 pick, I'm not even taking Barrett. I'm all aboard the Ja Train now (Ja Morant from Murray State). That dude is a freak too, and IMO, may have the biggest NBA career of the 3 of them.

I also don't think folks should sleep on Markus Howard from Marquette. He's small, but that boy can shoot with anyone in the country.
 

maufman

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Yep, I don't know how any team, especially a team looking to you know, sell tickets and make money, could possibly pass on Zion.

That said, if I have the #2 pick, I'm not even taking Barrett. I'm all aboard the Ja Train now (Ja Morant from Murray State). That dude is a freak too, and IMO, may have the biggest NBA career of the 3 of them.

I also don't think folks should sleep on Markus Howard from Marquette. He's small, but that boy can shoot with anyone in the country.
I agree — if Morant’s 44-inch vertical checks out, he’ll be the 2nd pick.

I’m less bullish on Howard. He’s a helluva shooter, but the list of guys under 6 feet who have made an impact in the NBA is a short one.
 

DannyDarwinism

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He looked so, so good last night that 26/9/4/1/4 on 10/12 shooting and no turnovers doesn't even do it justice. He had a couple of pull-ups jumpers that were smooth enough to give hope that it's a weapon he'll add to his arsenal soon enough, but the two things that stand out to me whenever I see him are his court awareness and just how light he is on his feet. Guys who weigh in somewhere north of Aron Baynes shouldn't be able to do this:


He's the main reason that AD won't be going anywhere soon.
 

lovegtm

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He looked so, so good last night that 26/9/4/1/4 on 10/12 shooting and no turnovers doesn't even do it justice. He had a couple of pull-ups jumpers that were smooth enough to give hope that it's a weapon he'll add to his arsenal soon enough, but the two things that stand out to me whenever I see him are his court awareness and just how light he is on his feet. Guys who weigh in somewhere north of Aron Baynes shouldn't be able to do this:


He's the main reason that AD won't be going anywhere soon.
That's a ridiculous clip. I agree--I hold out hope for him if I'm NO. Not least because Demps probably thinks getting Zion could save his job.
 

jmm57

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Through 20 games, Zion is averaging 22 points per game. He has nearly as many blocks+steals (78) as missed FG attempts (80).
 

tims4wins

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Through 20 games, Zion is averaging 22 points per game. He has nearly as many blocks+steals (78) as missed FG attempts (80).
With 6 blocks plus steals today vs 3 missed FG, he now has more. It’s another Zion show today.
 

Big John

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I'm watching the game. He's good, but he's no LeBron. Ugly looking shot, both from the field and the line. Fabulous dunker though.

Reddish just made an excellent baseline drive and dish. I think he's better than Barrett.
 

DrewDawg

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Zion down...shoe ripped off when he planted. Grabbed right knee. Went to bench for few minutes, now locker room with slight limp.

 
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TripleOT

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The only reason for me to watch college basketball may be shelved for the season. These Duke number one picks just can't stay healthy in their one season there.
 

tims4wins

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Duke fans must be apoplectic right now.
Meh. Sucks but whatever. Hate one and done anyway. Do feel for Zion a bit in that of all the top recruits to come through he seems to be one of the most genuine - just seems to love the game, love his teammates, and tries to deflect the accolades and hype. Selfishly sure I hope he plays for Duke again but he has to do the best thing for himself and that is probably to shut it down.