Your preferred Celtic target at #3

Your choice (sorry trade is not among the choices, since that obviously depends on the trade target)

  • Bender

    Votes: 56 46.7%
  • Hield

    Votes: 12 10.0%
  • Dunn

    Votes: 21 17.5%
  • Murray

    Votes: 15 12.5%
  • Brown

    Votes: 5 4.2%
  • Chriss

    Votes: 11 9.2%

  • Total voters
    120
  • Poll closed .

queenb

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Jan 6, 2016
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Not to completely hijack the thread, but anyone remember Dave Hopla? He's the dude who comes to basketball camps, gives an hour-long motivational speech, and shoots the entire time. He claims to hit 98% of his shots (mostly 15-18 footers if I'm not mistaken), which seems legit. I saw him a few times at Nelson Sanders camp, and every time he missed, which was once or twice per lecture, kids would gasp and jokingly boo, and then he'd hit the next 100 in a row.

Apparently he parlayed that into shooting coach jobs with the Raps and Wizards, and this source has some of his reported percentages:

In 2005 he shot a blistering 98.20%, making 35,332 of 35,979 shots!

Dave was 260 for 281 from the 3-point line for a percentage of 92.52% and on three occasions he was perfect from the field (263 of 263 on 6/25 at the University of Maryland, 339 of 339 on 7/28 at the CT Starters camp and 272 of 272 on 8/2 at UCLA) during his lecture
[emphasis theirs. lol]
 

DannyDarwinism

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Not to completely hijack the thread, but anyone remember Dave Hopla? He's the dude who comes to basketball camps, gives an hour-long motivational speech, and shoots the entire time. He claims to hit 98% of his shots (mostly 15-18 footers if I'm not mistaken), which seems legit. I saw him a few times at Nelson Sanders camp, and every time he missed, which was once or twice per lecture, kids would gasp and jokingly boo, and then he'd hit the next 100 in a row.

Apparently he parlayed that into shooting coach jobs with the Raps and Wizards, and this source has some of his reported percentages:

In 2005 he shot a blistering 98.20%, making 35,332 of 35,979 shots!

Dave was 260 for 281 from the 3-point line for a percentage of 92.52% and on three occasions he was perfect from the field (263 of 263 on 6/25 at the University of Maryland, 339 of 339 on 7/28 at the CT Starters camp and 272 of 272 on 8/2 at UCLA) during his lecture
[emphasis theirs. lol]
I also went to Cowens basketball camp (early 90s) and I remember a guy they brought in to give a talk on shooting. I don't remember his name or playing pedigree, but he did the entire lecture while taking jumpers from all over the court and missed a grand total of one.

I'm still concerned about Murray's capacity to defend, but his attitude is definitely a plus- he seems like a guy who lives for the moment. I wish I'd seen him play more point though, I don't really have a good sense of his ability as a distributor.
Just googled "Dave Hopla" and I'm pretty sure this is the guy I was talking about.
 

queenb

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Just googled "Dave Hopla" and I'm pretty sure this is the guy I was talking about.
My bad - definitely. This was the same era. Also impressive was how he would just grab some random kid to be his rebounder, like a 10 year-old, who would have to fire him passes on target and in rhythm. They usually weren't but he managed to get set and knock it down every time.
 

zenter

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To add to the Cool Story Bro set, I've seen Dwight Howard shoot practice free throws on a couple occasions. Both times he's been north of 70%.
And my addition is about pregame warmups. Saw Olynyk last year (pre-IT) in Brooklyn hit all but one 3 pointer near the line (wasn't watching closely until I noticed he kept hitting them), and make like 5/7 doing jumpshots near the half court line. Best of anyone on the Cs side. He probably had 12 points in the game, none from behind the arc.

EDIT: I was wrong. He had 6 points.
 
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Not to completely hijack the thread, but anyone remember Dave Hopla? He's the dude who comes to basketball camps, gives an hour-long motivational speech, and shoots the entire time. He claims to hit 98% of his shots (mostly 15-18 footers if I'm not mistaken), which seems legit. I saw him a few times at Nelson Sanders camp, and every time he missed, which was once or twice per lecture, kids would gasp and jokingly boo, and then he'd hit the next 100 in a row.

Apparently he parlayed that into shooting coach jobs with the Raps and Wizards, and this source has some of his reported percentages:

In 2005 he shot a blistering 98.20%, making 35,332 of 35,979 shots!

Dave was 260 for 281 from the 3-point line for a percentage of 92.52% and on three occasions he was perfect from the field (263 of 263 on 6/25 at the University of Maryland, 339 of 339 on 7/28 at the CT Starters camp and 272 of 272 on 8/2 at UCLA) during his lecture
[emphasis theirs. lol]
Haha...I went to that camp over 20 years ago and saw him do that as well. It was hypnotic.

I also saw Drazen Petrovic hit something like 97 out of 100 once at a Nets practice when I was interning at CBS Sports. They weren't three pointers, instead he was rotating between three spots from the top of the key. It was pretty amazing.
 

southshoresoxfan

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Jul 15, 2005
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Not to completely hijack the thread, but anyone remember Dave Hopla? He's the dude who comes to basketball camps, gives an hour-long motivational speech, and shoots the entire time. He claims to hit 98% of his shots (mostly 15-18 footers if I'm not mistaken), which seems legit. I saw him a few times at Nelson Sanders camp, and every time he missed, which was once or twice per lecture, kids would gasp and jokingly boo, and then he'd hit the next 100 in a row.

Apparently he parlayed that into shooting coach jobs with the Raps and Wizards, and this source has some of his reported percentages:

In 2005 he shot a blistering 98.20%, making 35,332 of 35,979 shots!

Dave was 260 for 281 from the 3-point line for a percentage of 92.52% and on three occasions he was perfect from the field (263 of 263 on 6/25 at the University of Maryland, 339 of 339 on 7/28 at the CT Starters camp and 272 of 272 on 8/2 at UCLA) during his lecture
[emphasis theirs. lol]
This guy came to a camp i used to attend. Hed give the lecture while talking and just draining shot after shot. His handle sucked tho
 

boca

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Austin Ainge has said that Murray had the best score this year, not all time.
 

mt8thsw9th

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Jul 17, 2005
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Not to completely hijack the thread, but anyone remember Dave Hopla? He's the dude who comes to basketball camps, gives an hour-long motivational speech, and shoots the entire time. He claims to hit 98% of his shots (mostly 15-18 footers if I'm not mistaken), which seems legit. I saw him a few times at Nelson Sanders camp, and every time he missed, which was once or twice per lecture, kids would gasp and jokingly boo, and then he'd hit the next 100 in a row.
I went to Reggie Lewis basketball camp at Northeastern. Dude didn't show up that year, and then he was gone. :(

I went to Play Ball Baseball Camp for years, which was run by Glenn Tufts (drafted right after Yount and Winfield in 1973). Part of the fun of the camp was when he'd gather all the campers around and just hit bombs for a half hour. It just looks so easy when these types of guys take BP or shoot on an empty court, while most of the populace struggles hitting 60 MPH pitches and hitting more than 5 out of 10 free throws. Sports are hard.

/threadjack
 

Deathofthebambino

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I also went to Cowens basketball camp (early 90s) and I remember a guy they brought in to give a talk on shooting. I don't remember his name or playing pedigree, but he did the entire lecture while taking jumpers from all over the court and missed a grand total of one.

I'm still concerned about Murray's capacity to defend, but his attitude is definitely a plus- he seems like a guy who lives for the moment. I wish I'd seen him play more point though, I don't really have a good sense of his ability as a distributor.
I know exactly who you are talking about. He came to my high school and did the same thing. He never stopped shooting, and making every single shot, while doing his entire lecture. I still remember the kid who he pulled out of the group that got to "rebound" and pass back to him. I couldn't name more than 4 of the teachers I had in high school, but that guy's presentation left such an impression on me that I remember which kid was chosen randomly to just catch the ball after it went through the net and pass it back to him. It was insane. I would imagine he took north of 200 shots from the free throw line out, and didn't miss a single one. Just a middle aged white guy draining shots, while barely paying attention, and explaining to us that it was really nothing but form.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Haha. I hadn't made it to the end of the thread when I made that post, and I see you guys figured out who he was. Amazing. Never change SOSH.
 

nighthob

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I mean he looks like the sort of player that Danny loves, so it wouldn't shock me in the least. I was OK with Brown as a mid lottery pick, so if they're swapping out with someone in the 6-8 range I'd feel better about it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I mean he looks like the sort of player that Danny loves, so it wouldn't shock me in the least. I was OK with Brown as a mid lottery pick, so if they're swapping out with someone in the 6-8 range I'd feel better about it.
Is there really much difference between 3 and 7-8 though? There are some votes at 3 on this board for guys who will go 7th and 8th......maybe lower. I don't see the disparity with the exception of the Pelicans at 6 who (confirmed through family) offered a promise to Dunn for him to shut down workouts.
 

NoXInNixon

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Is there really much difference between 3 and 7-8 though? There are some votes at 3 on this board for guys who will go 7th and 8th......maybe lower. I don't see the disparity with the exception of the Pelicans at 6 who (confirmed through family) offered a promise to Dunn for him to shut down workouts.
That's because we don't have access to the mountains of scouting information the Celtics surely have, nor do we have the decades of experience closely watching the game to be able to know what to look for in a prospect that makes him more likely to be a future All-star or MVP.

If Danny is actually indifferent to picking 3-8 because he thinks those 6 players are all effectively equally talented and good fits for the Celtics, I would be amazed.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Blakely's mock draft (8.0) has Cs getting Bender, Korkmaz, and Hernangomez, which like a pretty good result.

Edit: I think I am going senile. Brown would be the correct reference, not Bender. Sorry!
 
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Cellar-Door

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So Steve Kyler also hears Brown will be the pick if it isn't traded.

On the Bender front, he's working out in Boston on the 21st.
 

HomeRunBaker

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That's because we don't have access to the mountains of scouting information the Celtics surely have, nor do we have the decades of experience closely watching the game to be able to know what to look for in a prospect that makes him more likely to be a future All-star or MVP.

If Danny is actually indifferent to picking 3-8 because he thinks those 6 players are all effectively equally talented and good fits for the Celtics, I would be amazed.
I feel you are giving scouts too much credit here. It's pretty clear that there is a gap after 1/2 with most knowledgeable fans having varying opinions on how 3-8 are grouped......I would be surprised if teams didn't also have the same 1/2 along with different opinions on the rest based especially on need and opinion of Bender/Chriss/Jaylen.....of which there is not a mountain of information on even from where they sit.

Ainge intimidated what I've heard in the past in that the workouts don't tell them much more than what they already know. Much of what they already know is what we have also had access to over the past 9 months.
 

Sprowl

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Perfectly reasonable on all counts. I won't ever believe Ainge is a Bender guy and I've always felt trading this pick was his prime motivation. We've really missed a wing shot creator since Pierce left.
Is there good reason to think that Brown can create his own shot (or make plays for others) at the wing? Most of the writeups praise his defense and athleticism, but his development on offense seems to be lagging, and his performance at Berkeley was a disappointment.
 

snowmanny

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Is there really much difference between 3 and 7-8 though? There are some votes at 3 on this board for guys who will go 7th and 8th......maybe lower. I don't see the disparity with the exception of the Pelicans at 6 who (confirmed through family) offered a promise to Dunn for him to shut down workouts.
I would submit that it is likely that one or two of the guys picked 3-8 are going to have much better careers than the rest of them. I would submit that Danny is generally pretty good at identifying talent.
It's very likely that he has one or two targets picked out, even if the mocks have them all jumbled up and there is no consensus 3/4. If you believe that everyone from 3-8 has a similar chance of being a good player, sure you pick it out of a hat or you trade down. I'd be shocked if that's how Ainge is thinking about the draft. I'd much rather they stay at three and pick the best guy, or trade out entirely, than go to eight and leave their pick in the hands of the other teams.

On the other hand, as I said before, Brown reminds me too much of Ron Mercer to get all giddy about him at three.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I would submit that it is likely that one or two of the guys picked 3-8 are going to have much better careers than the rest of them. I would submit that Danny is generally pretty good at identifying talent.
It's very likely that he has one or two targets picked out, even if the mocks have them all jumbled up and there is no consensus 3/4. If you believe that everyone from 3-8 has a similar chance of being a good player, sure you pick it out of a hat or you trade down. I'd be shocked if that's how Ainge is thinking about the draft. I'd much rather they stay at three and pick the best guy, or trade out entirely, than go to eight and leave their pick in the hands of the other teams.

On the other hand, as I said before, Brown reminds me too much of Ron Mercer to get all giddy about him at three.
No you are misunderstanding my point. I'm certain Ainge has a very strong opinion of a player or two at his #3 slot as well as others he wouldn't even consider......my point was that his ranking of 3-8 is different than many other GM's in this years tight 3-8 grouping who also feel strongly about their opinion. I don't feel Ainge has shown anything more than decent/ok in his drafting much like many other experienced GM's.....that doesn't diminish the strength of his (or other GM's) opinion.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Is there good reason to think that Brown can create his own shot (or make plays for others) at the wing? Most of the writeups praise his defense and athleticism, but his development on offense seems to be lagging, and his performance at Berkeley was a disappointment.
Oh absolutely. Brown has the single most important skill for a slasher in his quick first step which once he gains experience and improves his jumper can be used to gain separation and create angles. He's also explosive going up to the rim. It's all upside at this point at age 19 however he has all the physical skills to be a bigger Jimmy Butler-type offensive player......or dare it say, a Paul Pierce-type.

I thought his freshman year was full of ups and downs as most freshman players are. He played in an offense filled with bigs and non-shooters so spacing in his half court sets were nonexistent yet still had some great performances and voted first team All Pac-10. I woudn't call his freshman year a disappointment at all and we also have to take into account how the college zone rules along with Cal's lack of spacing hampered his game quite a bit it.

He's high risk/high reward unlike someone like Hield. If Brown has the internal motor to reach his physical potential the sky is the limit (Pierce/Butler) and if he is seduced by the NBA lifestyle and/or fails to develop his game you're now talking about a guy who would bounce around looking to find his niche on someone's second unit. Whereas a Hield I see as not far from Redick in either direction due to him never having elite shot creating ability against NBA length and athleticism.
 
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nighthob

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I would submit that it is likely that one or two of the guys picked 3-8 are going to have much better careers than the rest of them. I would submit that Danny is generally pretty good at identifying talent.
It's very likely that he has one or two targets picked out, even if the mocks have them all jumbled up and there is no consensus 3/4. If you believe that everyone from 3-8 has a similar chance of being a good player, sure you pick it out of a hat or you trade down. I'd be shocked if that's how Ainge is thinking about the draft. I'd much rather they stay at three and pick the best guy, or trade out entirely, than go to eight and leave their pick in the hands of the other teams.

On the other hand, as I said before, Brown reminds me too much of Ron Mercer to get all giddy about him at three.
Ron Mercer was never that explosive. He also wasn't a great finisher. What he was was born a decade too late. If he'd arrived in the NBA a dozen years earlier you'd hear Bob Ryan telling long-winded anecdotes about what a great mid-range shooter he was and how kids these days can't do it.
 

Cellar-Door

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Sprowl

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Oh absolutely. Brown has the single most important skill for a slasher in his quick first step which once he gains experience and improves his jumper can be used to gain separation and create angles. He's also explosive going up to the rim. It's all upside at this point at age 19 however he has all the physical skills to be a bigger Jimmy Butler-type offensive player......or dare it say, a Paul Pierce-type...
Pierce's moves off the drive were good enough, and his long-distance game got better in his later years, but Pierce's bread-and-butter was always the off-balance turnaround from the elbows. Like Jordan's or Lewis's pop-up jumper off the dribble, it's a rare skill, not just a a routine skill added in development. I'm skeptical about whether any player who doesn't show that move as a Berkeley freshman can be expected to develop it later in life. That's why I'm hesitant to go for another Paul Pierce when the first Dragan Bender looks promising.

...if indeed he is, which I don't know. If the Celtics keep the pick, then I would agree that Brown should be taken ahead of the Murray-Hield-Dunn guard platter. Drafting for need ahead of best-player-available points to a frontcourt player.

Deal Danny Deal.
 

mauf

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m If the Celtics keep the pick, then I would agree that Brown should be taken ahead of the Murray-Hield-Dunn guard platter.
Really? Nobody has nice things to say about Brown's basketball IQ (he was easily the worst college player of the four). Plus, a 6-7 guy who can't shoot is useless in today's NBA, and there's an excellent chance that's precisely what Brown is. Even if you think his ceiling is higher than the others', I don't think the C's can give him the minutes in his first couple seasons that he needs to develop.
 

Sprowl

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Really? Nobody has nice things to say about Brown's basketball IQ (he was easily the worst college player of the four). Plus, a 6-7 guy who can't shoot is useless in today's NBA, and there's an excellent chance that's precisely what Brown is. Even if you think his ceiling is higher than the others', I don't think the C's can give him the minutes in his first couple seasons that he needs to develop.
I'm not enamoured of Brown either, but this is one of those rare years when a GM should be drafting not BPA but immediate club improvement. I see Brown as a viable Crowder backup in year 1, and possibly playing alongside Crowder as a 3/4 combo.

Best scenario is still that Ainge manages to turn #3, (Bradley or Smart), a 2nd rounder, and Young into the stuff that dreams are made of. Our dreams are flexible, but in this case, that means a big man (Cousins?), or a wing (Butler?). I'm looking for a four-team draft day bargain, whose exact details won't be revealed until the embargo has expired. For decades after, we'll remember it as the Cousins Punto trade.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Really? Nobody has nice things to say about Brown's basketball IQ (he was easily the worst college player of the four). Plus, a 6-7 guy who can't shoot is useless in today's NBA, and there's an excellent chance that's precisely what Brown is. Even if you think his ceiling is higher than the others', I don't think the C's can give him the minutes in his first couple seasons that he needs to develop.
If you google Brown and Basketball IQ you get varying results - some are high, some find it average, and others low. As HRB mentioned, some of his bad stats apparently can be explained on personnel/system. Finally, it is said that in workouts he is shooting the ball better than during the season - he has decent enough form and may just need a few minor tweaks, unlike Smart who had some major mechanical flaws.

And at the very least, Brown competes on defense and has the athletic ability to do so.

I'd be okay with Brown (though I remain convinced that Bender will be the guy absent trade). Brown has a chance to be the best player on a Finals team. Not a great one but still he has one and from all indications he has the motivation and work ethic to get there.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I've come around on him a bit, mainly due to questions about the other options, but also because I think it sounds like the Celtics would be a good fit for him. Maybe I'm wish-casting, but from what I've read, he sounds like a guy who need a stable but challenging environment to thrive. Some of the orange flags- loose handle and inconsistent shooting mechanics- are in areas that we can reasonably expect a 19 year-old to improve on. The concerns about his decision-making and tendency to coast are more troubling to me, but this is where I think he could benefit from playing on a good team with a coach like Stevens. He sounds like a smart guy who seeks out older mentors, so my hope is that he'd blossom when surrounded by veterans in a professional environment. At this point I think I'd prefer him over Chriss as the high upside/high risk pick because of Chriss's more documented BB IQ questions and his rebounding deficiencies, but there's still 9 days left, so I'll probably change my mind again a couple more time. God I love the NBA draft when the Celtics have a bunch of picks...
 

Eddie Jurak

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Brown sounds like someone who might provide immediate benefit as a role player - the Celtics lacked depth behind Crowder at SF and at times this limited their ability to play smaller lineups with Crowder at the 4. And relying on an injured Crowder really hurt them in the playoffs.

I don't think they should be drafting at #3 looking to fill immediate needs, but he would fill one.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
I don't think they should be drafting at #3 looking to fill immediate needs, but he would fill one.
Agreed, if Ainge and crew drafts for fit rather than BPA he will have failed big time. (unless KD is coming and said "draft Buddy...")

Danny has the long term in mind, not just next year. If, which is 85% likely I would say, we keep the pick the player can be under control for up to nine years. That is very likely longer than any player on the roster today. This is one of the top four assets Danny has for building a contending team. (Smart, Jae, Isaiah, #3, Bradley, 2017 Nets pick, 2018 Nets Pick)

If they determine Murray has the highest shot of becoming a star you draft him and make it work, same with Bender, Chriss, Dunn, or Brown.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I feel like they would draft Dunn and not look back if they didn't already have Bradley/Smart/IT/(Rozier).

Which also makes me think they should just draft him anyway.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I feel like they would draft Dunn and not look back if they didn't already have Bradley/Smart/IT/(Rozier).

Which also makes me think they should just draft him anyway.
Dunn could be drafted in a similar fashion that Wiggins was by Cleveland two years ago......with the intent to use this player for a pre-training camp trade. There will be several teams interested in moving up for Dunn today who may up their offer following the draft. Not saying this will happen but you have had Philadelphia and Phoenix who have been all over Dunn since the winter and New Orleans who have tried to get him to shut down workouts and hold back medicals to all teams for a promise at 6 (which he declined)........which doesn't take into account Minnesota who is now rumored to love him which I haven't been able to confirm yet. I still don't know what Phoenix has up their sleeve but I've mentioned them months ago and trust me it's legit.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What is the Phoenix thing you mentioned?
Only that his Dad told me back in February that Philly and Phoenix were all over him. He told me about the Pelican promise attempt last month.....which was followed by a chuckle and a "nice try."