Your preferred Celtic target at #3

Your choice (sorry trade is not among the choices, since that obviously depends on the trade target)

  • Bender

    Votes: 56 46.7%
  • Hield

    Votes: 12 10.0%
  • Dunn

    Votes: 21 17.5%
  • Murray

    Votes: 15 12.5%
  • Brown

    Votes: 5 4.2%
  • Chriss

    Votes: 11 9.2%

  • Total voters
    120
  • Poll closed .

nighthob

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If they're willing to pay tax, wouldn't the best scenario for both teams be a S&T for Barnes?
I don't think anyone wants to pay Barnes the sort of money it takes to meet the trade rules. Maybe Brooklyn if they get desperate enough. But we're discussing something like 4/95 for Harrison Barnes to make the deal work, if you're OKC that's a recipe for disaster. They're better off with a sign & trade for nothing so that they can generate a large TPE.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't think anyone wants to pay Barnes the sort of money it takes to meet the trade rules. Maybe Brooklyn if they get desperate enough. But we're discussing something like 4/95 for Harrison Barnes to make the deal work, if you're OKC that's a recipe for disaster. They're better off with a sign & trade for nothing so that they can generate a large TPE.
Barnes is getting maxed this off-season, almost guaranteed. Maybe OKC doesn't want him, but if you're losing Durant and trying to get Westbrook to stay Barnes probably makes sense.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Barnes is getting maxed this off-season, almost guaranteed. Maybe OKC doesn't want him, but if you're losing Durant and trying to get Westbrook to stay Barnes probably makes sense.
Barnes would be the type of player someone like Brooklyn pays when they can't lure anyone else. As a fan of the team holding their '17 and '18 unprotected draft pick I could not be more happier with Jeff Green Reincarnate ending up a Net.
 

nighthob

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Barnes would be the type of player someone like Brooklyn pays when they can't lure anyone else. As a fan of the team holding their '17 and '18 unprotected draft pick I could not be more happier with Jeff Green Reincarnate ending up a Net.
This. In spades.
 

mauf

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Durant would be as much of a "one-year rental" as LeBron is in Cleveland. Technically he will opt out only for the purpose of assuring he receives the new max in 12 months. If Durant signs in Oakland he is going to be there with Curry for awhile.
That's what the Lakers thought when they acquired Dwight Howard. Neither KD nor Curry is a raging asshole like Howard or Kobe, but team chemistry can also go awry in more subtle ways.

The Cavs were willing to make two ill-advised deals (Wiggins for Love, max-money deal for Kyrie) to lure LBJ because the Cavs had no other attractive options, and because they were confident that LBJ wouldn't kick his hometown team to the curb for the second time. Neither of those considerations is true for the Dubs this summer -- they will be a contender for the next few years if they simply retain their current core, and KD's legacy wouldn't take a meaningful hit if he did a "one and done" campaign with the Dubs in 2016-17.
 

nighthob

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That's what the Lakers thought when they acquired Dwight Howard. Neither KD nor Curry is a raging asshole like Howard or Kobe, but team chemistry can also go awry in more subtle ways.
The Lakers traded for a pending free agent, Howard did not sign a contract there.
 

In my lifetime

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It's official in 4 hours, when we can lock this thread after the Celtics channel the "luck of the Irish" into the #1 selection. At least one can always hope.
 

Devizier

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I just read up a little on Dragan Bender and saw that his step vertical leap is 27.5 inches, which would make him the worst (measured) in this years draft.

I cannot comprehend an NBA athlete with a lower vertical than I had as a high schooler. I don't know if that speaks to his ability to succeed in the NBA but it tempers my enthusiasm somewhat.
 

nighthob

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Unfortunately the trade value isn't exactly great as the teams with any interest at all are Philly and the teams drafting 4-7, and they're not giving up their future all stars for it. I'm fine with a trade down to add a second lottery pick in 2017, though. Or to Philly for their 2017 #1s.
 

Cellar-Door

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To me Bender is the no doubt pick at #3.
His upside is so much higher to me than any of the other options.
Worst pick of the players usually in that tier (Bender, Hield, Murray, Dunn, Brown) to me is Hield, I don't see how you spend a #3 pick on a guy who looks like a 1 skill wing player who struggles against NBA athleticism.
 

moly99

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My dream: a three team trade to bring in a big who can defend the rim and set screens and also pick up Jaylen Brown with a pick somewhere in 6-9. Or possibly just trading the Kings for Boogie and the 8th pick.
 

plucy

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My dream: a three team trade to bring in a big who can defend the rim and set screens and also pick up Jaylen Brown with a pick somewhere in 6-9. Or possibly just trading the Kings for Boogie and the 8th pick.
Vlade supposedly loves Hield, but WCS is the only thing he has to bridge the value gap from 3 to 8 that should interest Ainge. 8 is also a good spot for Skal, who has been rumored to be a target for DA.
 

mcpickl

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Unfortunately the trade value isn't exactly great as the teams with any interest at all are Philly and the teams drafting 4-7, and they're not giving up their future all stars for it. I'm fine with a trade down to add a second lottery pick in 2017, though. Or to Philly for their 2017 #1s.
Why are these the only teams with interest in the pick?
 

DannyDarwinism

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To me Bender is the no doubt pick at #3.
His upside is so much higher to me than any of the other options.
Worst pick of the players usually in that tier (Bender, Hield, Murray, Dunn, Brown) to me is Hield, I don't see how you spend a #3 pick on a guy who looks like a 1 skill wing player who struggles against NBA athleticism.
Agree completely about Bender, and I'm relatively bullish on Dunn. Bender's likely further away from contributing than the other guys (Brown excepted), but if the scouting reports I've read are accurate, agile, hard-nosed, high IQ, 7-foot 18 year-olds who can pass and shoot don't come around too often. I expect they'll trade the pick, but I'd be excited to watch Bender progress with the Celtics.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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To me Bender is the no doubt pick at #3.
His upside is so much higher to me than any of the other options.
Worst pick of the players usually in that tier (Bender, Hield, Murray, Dunn, Brown) to me is Hield, I don't see how you spend a #3 pick on a guy who looks like a 1 skill wing player who struggles against NBA athleticism.
I'd be stunned if they want Hield, given how highly they value versatility. Find a shooter elsewhere who has already proven he can step in and do it. Hield does no good for us if he's on the Redick path to NBA relevance.
 

moly99

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Vlade supposedly loves Hield, but WCS is the only thing he has to bridge the value gap from 3 to 8 that should interest Ainge. 8 is also a good spot for Skal, who has been rumored to be a target for DA.
That would work for me too.

I just don't want to come out of this with yet another combo guard or stretch 4 while we still have no long term solutions at C and SF.
 

nighthob

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Why are these the only teams with interest in the pick?
Oh, I'm sure that Golden State would love the pick, they're just not giving you Curry, Thompson, or Green for it. I'm also positive they could trade it for more above average players, but they already have 17 of those guys. When you have pick # n+1 in an N player draft your trade options shrink considerably.
 

mcpickl

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Oh, I'm sure that Golden State would love the pick, they're just not giving you Curry, Thompson, or Green for it. I'm also positive they could trade it for more above average players, but they already have 17 of those guys. When you have pick # n+1 in an N player draft your trade options shrink considerably.
Right. Just not down to the extremely limited pool you mentioned.

I'd actually guess that it's more likely they find a suitor from outside the parameters you listed than inside of it.
 

nighthob

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Vlade supposedly loves Hield, but WCS is the only thing he has to bridge the value gap from 3 to 8 that should interest Ainge. 8 is also a good spot for Skal, who has been rumored to be a target for DA.
I wouldn't mind this, but I would see about screwing an extra first round pick out of the Kings in the process. Cauley-Stein would be a huge boost on the defensive end for Boston even if the pickings at #8 are going to be slimmer. It might put Marquis Chriss on the table for them.
 

nighthob

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Right. Just not down to the extremely limited pool you mentioned.

I'd actually guess that it's more likely they find a suitor from outside the parameters you listed than inside of it.
I'd guess it's more likely that there isn't a trade at all. Much like #6 a couple of years back I'm sure they'll try, but there won't be any all stars available for the pick and Boston will end up using it on someone like Jamal Murray.
 

ALiveH

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If I'm Ainge and I can't package this for a difference maker, my backup plan is to call the Nuggets & see what they'd be willing to give up to move up from #7 to #3 (preferably Jokic but i'd settle for the future 1st they have coming from Memphis). #7 seems like the sweet spot in the draft for us to pick up Hield (ready to contribute right away as a shooter with potential to be more than that down the road) or a great value pick at #7 if one of the consensus 3-6 slip (Bender/Brown/Dunn/Murray).

btw, Hield overall had an outstanding conf & NCAA tournament in which every game was an elimination game.
 
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nighthob

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If I'm Ainge and I can't package this for a difference maker, my backup plan is to call the Nuggets & see what they'd be willing to give up to move up from #7 to #3 (preferably Jokic but i'd settle for the future 1st they have coming from Memphis). #7 seems like the sweet spot in the draft for us to pick up Hield (ready to contribute right away as a shooter with potential to be more than that down the road) or a great value pick at #7 if one of the consensus 3-6 slip (Bender/Brown/Dunn/Murray).
That's the sort of deal that I think is most likely if there's a trade, and if they can pick up an extra lottery pick and Hield I'm all for it.
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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If I'm Ainge and I can't package this for a difference maker, my backup plan is to call the Nuggets & see what they'd be willing to give up to move up from #7 to #3 (preferably Jokic but i'd settle for the future 1st they have coming from Memphis). #7 seems like the sweet spot in the draft for us to pick up Hield (ready to contribute right away as a shooter with potential to be more than that down the road) or a great value pick at #7 if one of the consensus 3-6 slip (Bender/Brown/Dunn/Murray).

btw, Hield overall had an outstanding conf & NCAA tournament in which every game was an elimination game.
Hield won't fall past the Pels at 6.
 

DJnVa

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Hield won't fall past the Pels at 6.
Then call them first. And I know Redick is an easy target, but essentially adding a guy for free that can hit 40% of his threes isn't a bad thing. Hield will have some deficiencies but I think Stevens will be able to find ways to use him if that's where we go.

Regarding Bender, I've read that he's agile and athletic, but can't jump over a phone book--that seems an odd combo--is that the case?
 

Auger34

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I know this is restating the obvious but Ainge wants to trade/package this pick to get a veteran All-Star. It seems like everything is available but the future BKN picks (2017 and 2018), IT, Crowder, and Smart (I think Smart could be traded in the right package but for the purpose of this exercise he can't.

What do you guys think is a realistic target for all the picks this year, Avery Bradley, and Amir Johnson? Is that enough for Jimmy Butler? Cousins? (Chris Mannix speculated they would be after Paul George but I think the price would be prohibitive and a decent amount more than Butler or Cousins.)
 

RoDaddy

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I wouldn't mind this, but I would see about screwing an extra first round pick out of the Kings in the process. Cauley-Stein would be a huge boost on the defensive end for Boston even if the pickings at #8 are going to be slimmer. It might put Marquis Chriss on the table for them.
Yeah, I'm totally on board with trying to get WCS who, from what I've read, looks like he's passed the first year test toward becoming a quality starting center. Here's a recent scouting report on him from a few months ago:

http://upsidemotor.com/2016/03/14/willie-cauley-stein-sacramento-kings-potential-utah-jazz-defense-shot-blocking/

This is guy is basically everything we need y'all!! Sorry if I'm misinterpreting this, but from the above posts it sounds like the hope is that Sac would send him and the #8 pick to us for #3? I don't see this at all. To me, especially with a proven year of development under his belt and therefore someone who can contribute right away, WCS is worth more than anyone we can get in the draft at #3, so I'd trade that pick straight up for him. Maybe we'd also have to throw in another #1 pick this year (which I'd still do, even if it's the Dallas pick). And even there, it's not clear that Sac would want to trade him - young quality big men in this league are very valuable
 

nighthob

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Yeah, I'm totally on board with trying to get WCS who, from what I've read, looks like he's passed the first year test toward becoming a quality starting center. Here's a recent scouting report on him from a few months ago:

http://upsidemotor.com/2016/03/14/willie-cauley-stein-sacramento-kings-potential-utah-jazz-defense-shot-blocking/

This is guy is basically everything we need y'all!! Sorry if I'm misinterpreting this, but from the above posts it sounds like the hope is that Sac would send him and the #8 pick to us for #3? I don't see this at all. To me, especially with a proven year of development under his belt and therefore someone who can contribute right away, WCS is worth more than anyone we can get in the draft at #3, so I'd trade that pick straight up for him. Maybe we'd also have to throw in another #1 pick this year (which I'd still do, even if it's the Dallas pick). And even there, it's not clear that Sac would want to trade him - young quality big men in this league are very valuable
The rumors are that there are a lot of guards on the Kings' wish list, none of whom will be available #8. By then what will be available are more of what they already have. When you have the Boogieman backup C isn't a priority. Unless they're looking to trade Cousins and make Cauley-Stein the starting center, I'm OK with that.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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Yeah, I'm totally on board with trying to get WCS who, from what I've read, looks like he's passed the first year test toward becoming a quality starting center. Here's a recent scouting report on him from a few months ago:

http://upsidemotor.com/2016/03/14/willie-cauley-stein-sacramento-kings-potential-utah-jazz-defense-shot-blocking/

This is guy is basically everything we need y'all!! Sorry if I'm misinterpreting this, but from the above posts it sounds like the hope is that Sac would send him and the #8 pick to us for #3? I don't see this at all. To me, especially with a proven year of development under his belt and therefore someone who can contribute right away, WCS is worth more than anyone we can get in the draft at #3, so I'd trade that pick straight up for him. Maybe we'd also have to throw in another #1 pick this year (which I'd still do, even if it's the Dallas pick). And even there, it's not clear that Sac would want to trade him - young quality big men in this league are very valuable
This is where I am as well. I doubt Suckramento wants to trade him, but if they did, I suspect it would be at least #3 and #16 (without the #8 coming back), or maybe #3 plus a player (Smart, Bradley).

I would trade the #3 and Smart for WCS. I know it is an overpay, but as someone said in the 76ers thread, "at some point you have to move forward". They have to use the assets they have to fill holes, and not worry about overpaying.


If I'm Ainge and I can't package this for a difference maker, my backup plan is to call the Nuggets & see what they'd be willing to give up to move up from #7 to #3 (preferably Jokic but i'd settle for the future 1st they have coming from Memphis). #7 seems like the sweet spot in the draft for us to pick up Hield (ready to contribute right away as a shooter with potential to be more than that down the road) or a great value pick at #7 if one of the consensus 3-6 slip (Bender/Brown/Dunn/Murray).

btw, Hield overall had an outstanding conf & NCAA tournament in which every game was an elimination game.
In general he did, but not against Villanova, likely the most talented and athletic opponent that Oklahoma faced. He was terrible in that game, especially in the first half when the game was still in reach. Tough to define a guy by one game, but I think that is where a lot of the concern about how he will perform against NBA-level defenders comes from.
 

nighthob

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I know this is restating the obvious but Ainge wants to trade/package this pick to get a veteran All-Star. It seems like everything is available but the future BKN picks (2017 and 2018), IT, Crowder, and Smart (I think Smart could be traded in the right package but for the purpose of this exercise he can't.

What do you guys think is a realistic target for all the picks this year, Avery Bradley, and Amir Johnson? Is that enough for Jimmy Butler? Cousins? (Chris Mannix speculated they would be after Paul George but I think the price would be prohibitive and a decent amount more than Butler or Cousins.)
I think the odds of landing a veteran all star with the third pick in a two man draft are roughly equivalent to their odds two years ago when they were shopping the sixth pick in a similar scenario. Pretty much everything that could have gone wrong did (Dallas making the playoffs, landing the third pick, Chicago's owners overruling management on the Butler front, etc.) so Boston may need to readjust their target date for summer 2017 with Brooklyn the early favourite to be the worst team in the NBA next year.
 

EL Jeffe

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I'm not seeing the Bender love as the Celtics don't need another below the rim big. If they go big, I'd rather they take Skal at #3 than Bender (and I thought Skal was mainly hot garbage as an over-aged frosh last year). Skal basically has the same skill-set as Bender except Skal has hops and can block/alter shots. I'm not advocating taking Skal at #3, just that I think he'd be a better fit for Boston than Bender (who strikes me as a scrawny version of Olynyk). With an NBA PED program, maybe Skal starts to fulfill on the promise he showed before being exposed as a passive floater at Kentucky. Boston desperately needs mobile, athletic bigs (I mean, Jerebko was probably their most athletic big last year which is really sad) so taking Bender doesn't change that equation.

Murray is still my choice if they stick with the #3 pick as I see him as the player with the best combination of NBA ready skills with room to improve (he was an 18 year old freshman; he reclassified to join Kentucky's 2015 incoming class). I like the Brandon Roy comps and while I wish he were a little more athletic, he has a nice mixture of skills and intangibles (carries himself like an alpha dog, competes defensively, has always shown well in international competitions, etc.). If they take Murray, they should be able to move Bradley for a nice piece.

Trading #3 would still be my preferred option though and I'll be more surprised than not if they do actually keep the pick.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Murray (or Dunn) also neatly fills the ball-handling role that led Evan freaking Turner to playing almost 30mpg this season. Wouldn't hate grabbing him at all, though a trade has been my A, B, and C preference from the get-go.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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Then call them first. And I know Redick is an easy target, but essentially adding a guy for free that can hit 40% of his threes isn't a bad thing. Hield will have some deficiencies but I think Stevens will be able to find ways to use him if that's where we go.

Regarding Bender, I've read that he's agile and athletic, but can't jump over a phone book--that seems an odd combo--is that the case?
Here's a youtube video on Bender covering all aspects of his game. It's long, but there's plenty to see. Video clips kick in a few minutes into video.

 

DJnVa

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Yeah, I'm totally on board with trying to get WCS who, from what I've read, looks like he's passed the first year test toward becoming a quality starting center.
We took Butler off our list here because the Bulls sent him to the lottery. The Kings sent WCS.
 

EL Jeffe

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This whole "sending a guy to the lottery" thing seems so overstated to me. It's not like Chicago is going to turn down a monster package for Butler just because they sent him to the lottery. "Gee, we'd love to accept #3, #16 future Brooklyn pick and Marcus Smart/Avery Bradley for Jimmy Butler, but we have to say 'no' because he did a 5 second national TV appearance before the draft lottery. If only we'd known, we'd have sent Jo Noah instead! Drats."

Sending a guy to the lottery seems like a really minor show of support that's just as likely to be a negotiating ploy for the other GMs as anything else. I mean, is Ainge now not going to listen to IT offers because they sent IT to be their lottery representative? Perhaps I'm missing something but does anyone really care or remember who represented different teams at the lottery (except that time the Bucks sent the cute girl)? Everyone is available for the right price. Chicago was never going to just give Butler away but I'm sure they'll move him if the right offer comes around (and I seriously doubt last night affected what they will consider to be the "right offer").
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I'd argue that Sacramento sending WCS to the lottery makes it more, not less, likely that they would subsequently trade him, if only to fulfill ARCO's Razor (the wildest move is usually the one we will pursue).
 

DJnVa

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This whole "sending a guy to the lottery" thing seems so overstated to me. It's not like Chicago is going to turn down a monster package for Butler just because they sent him to the lottery. "Gee, we'd love to accept #3, #16 future Brooklyn pick and Marcus Smart/Avery Bradley for Jimmy Butler, but we have to say 'no' because he did a 5 second national TV appearance before the draft lottery. If only we'd known, we'd have sent Jo Noah instead! Drats."
My point was more that there were a lot of posts here talking about Butler, then someone posts "Butler is going to lottery" and then everyone changed their mind.
 

moly99

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This is guy is basically everything we need y'all!! Sorry if I'm misinterpreting this, but from the above posts it sounds like the hope is that Sac would send him and the #8 pick to us for #3? I don't see this at all.
The Kings are desperate for a player like Hield and already have DMC at center. (Or WCS if they would be willing to trade Boogie.) They might want another pick, but the one thing the Celtics have in abundance is late first/early second draft picks. So that should not hold up a trade.
 

nighthob

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I'd argue that Sacramento sending WCS to the lottery makes it more, not less, likely that they would subsequently trade him, if only to fulfill ARCO's Razor (the wildest move is usually the one we will pursue).
They really are the one wildcard team. They're like the Billy King Nets in that the most useful tool for predicting their next move is a Magic 8 Ball.
 

DJnVa

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I don't understand the "They have Boogie, they can trade WCS" thing. They knew they had Boogie when they got WCS. What's changed?
 

nighthob

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No, that's not it. They drafted Cauley-Stein because he was the best player available when they picked. This is the NBA, not the NFL, you always go BPA and figure out the rest later. But in Sacramento he's destined to be a bench player behind Cousins (unless LA goes all in and deals Russell/#2 for Cousins, which I can totally see happening). So what Cauley-Stein really is for the Kings is expendable for upgrades elsewhere. Again, unless it's Cousins that's going and Cauley-Stein is taking over the starting job.