Yeah, but who's in 2nd? The ongoing Bundesliga thread

[candylandriots]

We don't talk about the Bundesliga nearly as much as we should. If not for me blabbing about Union Berlin, there probably would be almost no mention at all. La Liga and Serie A seemingly get more traction.

But, I have 15 minutes during halftime of the Palace game, and I've been meaning to start this for a while. Even though Bayern has the title locked up for the 2700th time in a row...and Dortmund are in their normal 2nd place position there is a lot to discuss below that. While those two teams are Champions League regulars (with RB Leipzig coming closer to a sure thing as well), the turbulence among positions 3-8 makes this a relatively competitive league. Teams like Wolfsburg, Schalke (since relegated), Leverkusen, Gladbach and Hoffenheim have all been in the Champions League in the past 5 seasons, with others going deep in the Europa League. Hertha Berlin has barely kept their heads above water, in 15th place at the moment - competing with Stuttgart to get/stay out of the relegation playoff.

There's a pretty tight battle going on for the remaining European places (2 Champions League, 1 Europa League, 1 Conference League) among Leverkusen, RB Leipzig, Freiburg, Union Berlin and Hoffenheim. Bayern and Dortmund have punched their ticket for the Champions League. RB Leipzig is all but assured of a European spot, so 7th place will earn a Conference League slot should they win the DFB Pokal against Freiburg, and likely even if they lose it.

I'm not going to say anything else for the moment out of pure caution/superstition, but let's talk Fußball here.

 

[Stanley Steamer]

Let's hear it for Bochum, my friend Bruno's favorite team. Storied past, promoted last season, and sure to remain in the first division.

 

[Royal Reader]

Any room for a 2. Bundesliga interloper? Enormous game at the top today with Sankt Pauli visiting S04.

What with the loss of the Gazprom sponsorship and all, a swift return would be very useful not just in a sporting sense, but also avoiding a world of financial hurt for the Königsblauen.

 

[candylandriots]

Any room for a 2. Bundesliga interloper? Enormous game at the top today with Sankt Pauli visiting S04.

What with the loss of the Gazprom sponsorship and all, a swift return would be very useful not just in a sporting sense, but also avoiding a world of financial hurt for the Königsblauen.

Of course! There are some pretty big teams in the second division now and the fight for promotion is awfully tight. Four teams could still win the division, or even could entirely miss out on promotion. The bottom end is settled, with Erzebirge Are and Ingolstadt definitely going down, and Dynamo Dresden definitely in the pro/rel playoff (hopefully that rotten team will be sent down).

Would be nice to see the return of the Revierderby...

 

[Royal Reader]

League is so difficult to predict. Thought Schalke had blown it by getting thrashed at home by Werder... then Bremen lose at home the next week, and now it's S04 and HSV in pole position.

In Terodde we trust.

 

[Royal Reader]

SCHAAAAAAAALKE!

 

[candylandriots]

Today is the final day of the season. While know that Bayern have won the title and Fürth are relegated, there are still some things to be decided today.

At the bottom of the table Bielefeld (vs RB Leipzig) has an unlikely shot at moving up to the playoff. They need a win and a Stuttgart loss and to make up a 7 point goal differential. Meanwhile, Stuttgart (vs Köln) is trying to get out of the playoff spot. That would require them winning and Hertha (at Dortmund) losing, as Hertha’s GD is godawful.

At the top, Bayern and Dortmund are locked in to their traditional spots, and Leverkusen is third. The fight for the final Champions League slot is between RB Leipzig and Freiburg (who coincidentally play each other in the cup final next week). RB Leipzig hold a two point advantage and a significant lead in GD, so Freiburg (at Leverkusen) needs a win and an RB Leipzig loss (at Bielefeld).

My boys, Union Berlin, are technically alive for fourth, but it would require picking up something like a 30 goal diff on RBL today haha. I’m on my way to the game now where they play against Bochum. The UEL and the Conference League will have Union Berlin and Köln (edit: that’s not actually true as one of Freiburg or RB Leipzig will be in the UEL too), it’s just a question of which team goes where. Union (vs Bochum) has a 2 point advantage one goal over Köln. They’re also 1 point (and 8 GD) behind Freiburg for 5th. However 5th or 6th puts them in the Europa League, since both RB Leipzig and Freiburg are in the cup final. Freiburg almost certainly will end up in the UEL either by finishing 5th or 6th or through the Cup. Köln could move out of the Conference League by winning and a Union loss.

That’s about all that matters, though it’s interesting that UEL finalist Frankfurt is in 12th currently. So we could conceivably have a bottom half team make the Champions League.

Prost!

 

[Warning Track Speed]

Stuttgart misses a penalty but scores off a corner a minute later. Why the plain black jerseys for Koln? Did they have a Russian sponsor? Doesn't even appear there's a club crest on the shirt, unless it's black-on-black. Looks like 10 referees running around out there.

Edit: Actually there does appear to be a sponsor in black on the black shirt. If I was a marketing executive at REWE I might suggest a color combo that would give my brand a little more visibility.

 

[candylandriots]

Stuttgart misses a penalty but scores off a corner a minute later. Why the plain black jerseys for Koln? Did they have a Russian sponsor? Doesn't even appear there's a club crest on the shirt, unless it's black-on-black. Looks like 10 referees running around out there.

Edit: Actually there does appear to be a sponsor in black on the black shirt. If I was a marketing executive at REWE I might suggest a color combo that would give my brand a little more visibility.

That’s weird because Rewe’s store signs are always red and white!

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

Marco Rose fired at Dortmund. The overall solid performance and good "people like Dortmund!" vibes really help mask that the club is a bit of a basket case at the executive level. Hair trigger in churning through managers and completely inept at buying defensive players.

 

[candylandriots]

Hertha Berlin came back from a 1-0 defeat in the first leg of the relegation playoff to defeat Hamburg 2-0 in Hamburg, to hold their spot in the 1. Bundesliga, and keep Hamburg in the second for the 5th consecutive season.

(edit: that is in impressive run-on sentence if I do say so myself.)

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

I just put on the BR24 radio feed, and heard Felix Magath is managing Hertha. I’m shocked he’s still around, let alone managing 1. Bundesliga sides.

 

[candylandriots]

I just put on the BR24 radio feed, and heard Felix Magath is managing Hertha. I’m shocked he’s still around, let alone managing 1. Bundesliga sides.

To be fair, the average lifespan of a Hertha manager these days is like 1.1 Watfords. Give it a couple weeks.

 

[candylandriots]

Congratulations @Schnerres ! Nice to see those Dresden nazi pukes go down too.

Now there are fires in the stadium, in addition to the typical flares, which are being thrown onto the field of play.

 

[candylandriots]

Believe it or not, the 2. Bundesliga actually kicks off tonight somehow with Kaiserslautern and Hannover. Not sure exactly why it’s starting this early.

Meanwhile, tough news in the capital. While Union CB Timo Baumgartl recovers from testicular cancer treatment, Hertha forward Marco Richter was also diagnosed with the same this past week.

 

[candylandriots]

This also apparently happened last year too. There’s a guy, now on Hertha’s second team who is a YouTube/Instagram sensation. And all the kids want their picture with him.

 

[candylandriots]

Don't want to jinx it, but there's a pretty big upset brewing in the first round of the DFB Pokal...one of last year's finalists is about to go down to a team just promoted to the second division.

Terrence Boyd (USA) has just missed a couple opportunities to extend the lead, and former FC Union man Andreas Luthe looks good in goal.

 

[candylandriots]

Fucking hell: 1-1 Kaiserslautern / Freiburg.

Edit: had to open my dumb mouth.

 

[candylandriots]

Dortmund defender Nico Schulz has been accused of domestic violence against his ex-girlfriend, most seriously, of kicking her in the stomach, two weeks before giving birth.

https://www.welt.de/sport/article240339197/Borussia-Dortmund-Nico-Schulz-soll-schwangere-Freundin-misshandelt-haben.html

 

[nayrbrey]

Hey @candylandriots, I saw this article for a new book about Union Berlin and their promotion, will have to order it to better understand Berlin and the UB fans. It may give me a new team to root for. “Oon-yon” Berlin indeed.

https://worldsoccertalk.com/2022/08/18/union-berlin-book-tells-story-of-club-in-a-changing-city-and-country/

 

[candylandriots]

Hey @candylandriots, I saw this article for a new book about Union Berlin and their promotion, will have to order it to better understand Berlin and the UB fans. It may give me a new team to root for. “Oon-yon” Berlin indeed.

https://worldsoccertalk.com/2022/08/18/union-berlin-book-tells-story-of-club-in-a-changing-city-and-country/

Oh wow - thank you for letting me know about this! I think I mentioned that I’ve become friends with the father of one of my wife’s good friends (along with his best friend as well) - going to a bunch of games with them.

Well, Lisa actually bought this book for me as a gift a few months ago. Which is amazing except I’ve been intimidated to read it because it’s in German. Knowing there is an English version is a huge relief! I may have to cheat and read it this way

Edit: oops, not the same book after all. This is the one I got
View: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Christoph-Biermann/dp/3462001116


I’ll need to check out the one you suggested though too!

 

[nayrbrey]

Oh wow - thank you for letting me know about this! I think I mentioned that I’ve become friends with the father of one of my wife’s good friends (along with his best friend as well) - going to a bunch of games with them.

Well, Lisa actually bought this book for me as a gift a few months ago. Which is amazing except I’ve been intimidated to read it because it’s in German. Knowing there is an English version is a huge relief! I may have to cheat and read it this way

Edit: oops, not the same book after all. This is the one I got
View: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Christoph-Biermann/dp/3462001116


I’ll need to check out the one you suggested though too!

Glad I posted it then. I had wondered if there was a German language version of it. Good luck with the other one, just dive in and give it a try.

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

Utter collapse by Dortmund at home against Bremen, up 2 - 0 late in the second half, lost 3 - 2.

I think it’s Bayern’s year.

 

[candylandriots]

Utter collapse by Dortmund at home against Bremen, up 2 - 0 late in the second half, lost 3 - 2.

I think it’s Bayern’s year.

Wow - I cashed out my 5e bet on Dortmund when they were up 2-0. Good for me! I need to see the highlights. Bremen's first goal was in the 89th minute. Crazy.

 

[candylandriots]

Wut? Do I need to change the thread title?

 

[67YAZ]

Congrats @candylandriots! Your only worry should be Chelsea trying to hire Fischer next month.

 

[candylandriots]

Congrats @candylandriots! Your only worry should be Chelsea trying to hire Fischer next month.

Thanks! I know you’re joking about Chelsea in particular, don’t you go getting ideas like @Jimy Hendrix too!

My hopes with holding on to Fischer are a) he wants to be part of building something big and sees a path from his current hero to ultimate legend status by staying, b) the culture of the club is built around loyalty and solidarity (I’m sure that Fischer was part of the decision with Polter being effectively removed from the club during Covid for refusing a pay cut with everyone else, for example) and c) hoping teams like Chelsea will be too snobbish to shop in the bargain bin. Like, even if some Kardashian knew the exact dress she wanted was somehow at TJ Maxx for half price, she’d be too ashamed to buy it there.

Admittedly, my comfort level with these hopes weighing more than suitcases full of cash is is about as strong as Pefok’s penalty attempt today.

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

I don’t want to jinx anything, but my first team, 1860 Munich, has gotten off to a flying start, suffering their first loss 8 matches in, to SV Elversberg, and they’re both teams in the automatic promotion spots. 30 matches to go and all, but to get back to the 2. Liga…

 

[candylandriots]

I don’t want to jinx anything, but my first team, 1860 Munich, has gotten off to a flying start, suffering their first loss 8 matches in, to SV Elversberg, and they’re both teams in the automatic promotion spots. 30 matches to go and all, but to get back to the 2. Liga…

My first game in Germany was in 2016 with Union hosting them. Bobby Wood had a brace for Union. I can’t remember if 1860 got relegated at the end of that season or the next, but the fans were anticipating it, as I remember a sign from the visitors’ section that said something like “the farewell to the 2nd league tour”. Would be nice to see them move back up - good luck!

I went to my first non-league game on Saturday and had fun. I’ll try to post a little about it later.

 

[The Raccoon]

Quite an enjoyable saturday afternoon from the POV of a BVB fan.
Augsburg winning against FCB, Leverkusen losing points against Bremen and (most importantly) winning Das Derby against Schalke.
Being in first place is the cherry on top (even if it's just for a night until the power houses from Freiburg and Union join the action.)

Reus injury on the other hand didn't look good and may even cost him the world championships (again).

 

[candylandriots]

Sorry everyone else - Urs Fischer extended his contract, thank god

 

[candylandriots]

I don't expect it to get a whole lot of love here with the Man City-Liverpool match going on, but Sunday looks to be a lot of fun in Deutschland. At 11:30am eastern you have #1 Union Berlin vs. #4 Dortmund and at 1:30pm you have #3 Bayern Munich hosting #2 Freiburg. The Bundesliga is calling it Super Sunday.

 

[candylandriots]

Union got a gift from Dortmund early in the game, but it didn't matter. They were too good for BVB and won decisively 2-0, to extend their lead in the Bundesliga to 4 points, now with Bayern in 2nd after their 5-0 win over Freiburg. Since everyone else was watching Liverpool-City (I was at a bar that had that on too, and even in Berlin, there were more eyes on that game. Though everyone there were native English speakers, except strangely, the Germans in the back room there to watch the Patriots!)

Anyhow, here's an English translation of the game recap to catch you up. The headline translates to "Impressive Lecture: Union Berlin Defeated Dortmund Deservedly 2-0"

https://www-berliner--zeitung-de.translate.goog/sport-leidenschaft/1-fc-union-berlin/fussball-bundesliga-eindrucksvoller-vortrag-1-fc-union-berlin-besiegt-dortmund-verdient-mit-2-0-li.277293?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

I should add that Frederik Rønnow is turning into an elite goalkeeper. Union's defense is good, but he's given up only 6 goals in 10 Bundesliga games.

 

[candylandriots]

Posting something only tangentially related to Union Berlin. I went to see Pavement last night (rare show with a seat!) and thought some of you would get a laugh out of this. I have no idea why I had my camera running for this, but glad I caught it.

View: https://youtu.be/MIqLcNUzQd8

 

[67YAZ]

Posting something only tangentially related to Union Berlin. I went to see Pavement last night (rare show with a seat!) and thought some of you would get a laugh out of this. I have no idea why I had my camera running for this, but glad I caught it.

View: https://youtu.be/MIqLcNUzQd8

Excellent. But what’s the German equivalent of Bakersfield?

 

[candylandriots]

Excellent. But what’s the German equivalent of Bakersfield?

Maybe Bielefeld?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_conspiracy

I figured this game agains Leverkusen was a classic trap game, but damn, didn’t think it would be that bad.

 

[candylandriots]

Table after completion of the Hinrunde. Very tight at the top with only 2 points between 2nd and 6th.

 

[candylandriots]

As much as I liked Julian Ryerson, I am very much enjoying the Josip Juranovic era in Berlin. He’s assisted the last three goals and has been outstanding delivering corners.

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

Second yellow for a dive, you don't see that too often!

 

[candylandriots]

Second yellow for a dive, you don't see that too often!

Right? I almost tagged @SocrManiac but it’s my team. He definitely didn’t need to do that, but there was contact.

Don’t know if you saw any of the coverage after the game — and for those who didn’t watch the game — there was a pretty funny moment after it was over. Union was winning 2-1 and Wolfsburg brought up the goalie for the final corner. Union had a breakaway towards an open goal. Juranovic shot from like 70 yards out, but it was off target. Jerome Rousillon, who until a couple of days ago played for Wolfsburg himself, had a chance to more or less tap it in. He hesitated, and the Wolfsburg keeper was able to save a meaningless goal. His new teammates piled on him to celebrate the win anyway. A couple minutes later while Union was celebrating in front of the Waldseite, Juranovic set him up again to take a shot from the same distance, which he converted, to the laughs of everyone around.

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

That was a very funny non-goal. Not sure if the broadcast stayed long enough to catch that part of the celebrations, but I definitely didn’t so thanks for the info.

 

[SocrManiac]

Right? I almost tagged @SocrManiac but it’s my team. He definitely didn’t need to do that, but there was contact.

Don’t know if you saw any of the coverage after the game — and for those who didn’t watch the game — there was a pretty funny moment after it was over. Union was winning 2-1 and Wolfsburg brought up the goalie for the final corner. Union had a breakaway towards an open goal. Juranovic shot from like 70 yards out, but it was off target. Jerome Rousillon, who until a couple of days ago played for Wolfsburg himself, had a chance to more or less tap it in. He hesitated, and the Wolfsburg keeper was able to save a meaningless goal. His new teammates piled on him to celebrate the win anyway. A couple minutes later while Union was celebrating in front of the Waldseite, Juranovic set him up again to take a shot from the same distance, which he converted, to the laughs of everyone around.

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/10r27f8/jérôme_roussillon_of_union_berlin_fails_to/

Definitely my kind of shithousing.

 

[candylandriots]

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/10r27f8/jérôme_roussillon_of_union_berlin_fails_to/

Definitely my kind of shithousing.

Thank you for finding that!!! One of my friends that was at the game didn’t see the “goal” after it was all over, so I can share with him now too.

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

Bayern apparently considering sacking Nagelsmann, with Tuchel a leading candidate to replace him, per Fabrizio Romano:
View: https://twitter.com/fabrizioromano/status/1638997001118404615

 

[DJnVa]

Per Fab update, it’s done.

 

[the1andonly3003]

View: https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1639035450579886082?s=20


Is Cancelo allowed to face City?

 

[DJnVa]

Is Cancelo allowed to face City?

Yes, that's no longer a rule.

Thanks to a rule change in the 2018/19 season, it now no longer matters if a player has played in the Champions League for another team earlier in the competition. This is the same for the Europa League and the Europa Conference League.

The only thing that could have stopped Cancelo from playing for Bayern against City was if the German side had already registered three new players from the winter transfer window for the knockout phases of the Champions League.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

I'm open to the idea that Bayern didn't feel Nagelsman was a good fit culturally or some shit (he comes off as a bit of a prick) but that firing is completely absurd. Dude is >50% likely to win the Bundesliga and they've run roughshod over the Champions league going 8-0-0 with a 21-2 GD (and the two were in a meaningless tie v a Czech team) against the likes of Barca, Inter, and PSG. Tuchel will help them short term I'm sure but he's going to piss his way out of town in 20 months because that's what he does and then where are they?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I'm open to the idea that Bayern didn't feel Nagelsman was a good fit culturally or some shit (he comes off as a bit of a prick) but that firing is completely absurd. Dude is >50% likely to win the Bundesliga and they've run roughshod over the Champions league going 8-0-0 with a 21-2 GD (and the two were in a meaningless tie v a Czech team) against the likes of Barca, Inter, and PSG. Tuchel will help them short term I'm sure but he's going to piss his way out of town in 20 months because that's what he does and then where are they?

Nagelsmann's record at Bayern isn't very impressive by their standards. At this point, winning the league is the minimum expectation and its what you do on top of that which counts. Last year he lost 5-0 to Gladbach in the DFB Pokal and, more importantly, go knocked out of the CL by Villarreal. You are right that he is doing great in the CL this year but Bayern are also in more danger of losing the league than they have been in a decade.

Nevertheless, that's not a record that gets you sacked in late March on its own. There are rumors flying that he clashed with some of the sporting directors at Bayern and wasn't well liked by some influential players. Who knows what happened but I think something like that had to be part of it.

 

[tmracht]

The fifa career mode memes are top quality around this firing. Yes Tuchel should give them a bump and likely makes them a favorite for the UCL since TT is great at European Knockouts, but this as Dummy says is not a move that is long term thinking. Yet, the incremental value over not finishing second in the league probably is worth the TT blow up in 20 months.