Yawkey Way now Jersey St again

charlieoscar

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There was a full-page statement in Today's Boston Globe (March 9, 2018, p. A5) from the Reverend Ray Hammond (pastor of the Bethel AME Church and a board member of the Yawkey Foundation) addressing the changing of the name of Yawkey back to Jersey Street "based on the belief that he was a racially divisive figure and that the change is needed to help the team promote and practice the values of diversity and inclusion."

He goes on to say, "The case against Yawkey is that if he did not outright resist bringing black ballplayers to the team in the 1950s he was slow to try to hire them, with the result that the Red Sox were the last team in Major League baseball to integrate. However, the record, much of it conformed by the Globe's own reporting at the time, shows otherwise."

He does on to note that they signed Lorenzo "Piper" Davis to a minor league contract in 1949 and "in 1950, 1952, and 1954, the Red Sox made strong offers to other teams to acquire such star black players as Larry Doby and Charley Neal, and Bill Greason, a promising pitcher, but were rebuffed; and in 1957 the team was about to promote a black pitching prospect, Earl Wilson, to the major league team, only to see him drafted into the military."

There is more about what the Yawkey's have done philanthropically.

One might say that the Yawkey Foundation chose the Reverend Hammond, a black pastor, as the most suitable person to speak up for Yawkey but there are facts that no one else is bringing up to be considered. I have mentioned Piper Davis but I forgot about Earl Wilson and the draft and I don't recall the rumors about Doby, Neal, and Greason.
 

joe dokes

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I think intelligent people are capable of acknowledging that at best his legacy is a complicated one.
Just as the Earl Wilson Era in Boston was complicated. Wikipedia (and Howard Bryant) says this:

Howard Bryant's book 'Shut Out' deals with Wilson's time at Boston. During spring training in 1966 he had entered a bar in Florida with two white colleagues, Dennis Bennett and Dave Morehead, and was told "we don't serve niggers here". Wilson left the bar and took the issue to Red Sox management, but was told to forget about it and not speak to the press. This was too much for the proud Wilson, who revealed what had happened to the media. He was traded to the Detroit Tigers for outfielder Don Demeter and pitcher Julio Navarro. Wilson would hit more home runs for Detroit as a pitcher than Demeter, while Navarro never pitched a game for Boston.
Tommy Harper claimed that he was similarly mistreated after bringing the Elks Club situation to management.
The Boston Red Sox aren't going to change history or eradicate problems in race relations. But sometimes even a small symbolic gesture speaks volumes. They aren't spearheading any efforts to have Yawkey's name eradicated from the history books. They aren't going to leave blank pages in the media guide.
 

charlieoscar

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I think intelligent people are capable of acknowledging that at best his legacy is a complicated one.
Just as the Earl Wilson Era in Boston was complicated. Wikipedia (and Howard Bryant) says this:...spring training in 1966 he had entered a bar in Florida with two white colleagues, Dennis Bennett and Dave Morehead, and was told "we don't serve niggers here". Wilson left the bar and took the issue to Red Sox management, but was told to forget about it and not speak to the press....
In 1965 I was attending an Air Force tech school at Keesler AFB in Keesler, Mississippi and walked into a bar with fellow GI in uniform, who was black. We were refused service. Did the USAF do anything about establishments like that? Did the United States Government do anything about establishments like that? I'm tired of all this shit about how Yawkey was a racist, particularly from people who weren't even alive back then. This country has been racist ever since the first settlers came in and stole the land from the natives living here. The 14th Amendment didn't do away with racism against Blacks; it just made it subtler. It can't even give women equality. It's got a long ways to go with its Washington Monument and Jefferson Memorial.
 

chrisfont9

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In 1965 I was attending an Air Force tech school at Keesler AFB in Keesler, Mississippi and walked into a bar with fellow GI in uniform, who was black. We were refused service. Did the USAF do anything about establishments like that? Did the United States Government do anything about establishments like that? I'm tired of all this shit about how Yawkey was a racist, particularly from people who weren't even alive back then. This country has been racist ever since the first settlers came in and stole the land from the natives living here. The 14th Amendment didn't do away with racism against Blacks; it just made it subtler. It can't even give women equality. It's got a long ways to go with its Washington Monument and Jefferson Memorial.
Are you saying we should just give up and accept it? I'm pretty sure things have gotten a lot better, even if there's still a ways to go, regarding all forms of bigotry.
 

joe dokes

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In 1965 I was attending an Air Force tech school at Keesler AFB in Keesler, Mississippi and walked into a bar with fellow GI in uniform, who was black. We were refused service. Did the USAF do anything about establishments like that? Did the United States Government do anything about establishments like that? I'm tired of all this shit about how Yawkey was a racist, particularly from people who weren't even alive back then. This country has been racist ever since the first settlers came in and stole the land from the natives living here. The 14th Amendment didn't do away with racism against Blacks; it just made it subtler. It can't even give women equality. It's got a long ways to go with its Washington Monument and Jefferson Memorial.
It sounds like you're saying that until everything is done, no one should do anything.

I cant speak to the USAF's efforts, but the "US Government" did at least try to do something about it, when it passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
And 20 years later, Mr. Yawkey's redsox was still accepting freebies from the Winter Haven Elks Club.


I wasn't alive during the Civil War. Fortunately, they wrote stuff down so I could learn from history.
 

charlieoscar

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I cant speak to the USAF's efforts, but the "US Government" did at least try to do something about it, when it passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Are you saying we should just give up and accept it? I'm pretty sure things have gotten a lot better, even if there's still a ways to go, regarding all forms of bigotry.
The Civil Rights Act of 1964. That was really a success, wasn't it?

I never intimated that we should just give up and accept things but I am saying that although our Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal," that still is interpreted as men equals male, white male. There is a whole lot more important things that need to be done other than changing a street name.

We have a bunch of people who did not know Yawkey personally accusing him of racism because his club was the last one in the majors to have a Black player and because he followed the Rules of the Elks Club in the South. These people do not know if Yawkey was truly a racist or if he just went along with the times, given that the Red Sox had spring training and minor league clubs in states where there were separate water fountains, restrooms, hotels, restaurants, etc., for Blacks. And let's face it, Boston has a history of racism that goes past Yawkey's time and Massachusetts was a slave state until the 1780s.
 

charlieoscar

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Or that the front office during the 40s and 50s was infested with racists and sorta-racists.
Don't you think that most of the clubs in the '40s and even into the '50s were reluctant to sign Blacks? Only six of the sixteen had Blacks on the major league roster before 1953 and two of the clubs in '53 didn't have one until September.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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You’re right, I didn’t know Tom Yawkey personally. I also didn’t know Marie Curie, can I say she was a great scientist? Can I say Thomas Edison was a great inventor? Can I say David Ortiz was a great hitter?

You judge a man by his actions and by his inactions. And Tom Yawkey’s actions and inactions show him to have been a racist and a man who allowed racist things to regularly occur in his organization.

Oh, and I don’t know the people behind the Yawkey Foundation, but I can tell you their work strongly suggests that they are not racists. And I can understand their fear of being painted with the same brush that Mr. Yawkey is being painted with, which is why they are defending his name.

And of course most or at least many teams were reluctant to sign Black players. But they did it anyway while the Red Sox did not. And most of those teams also had spring training and minor league teams in racist states, yet they figured out how to move forward.
 

joe dokes

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The Civil Rights Act of 1964. That was really a success, wasn't it?

I never intimated that we should just give up and accept things but I am saying that although our Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal," that still is interpreted as men equals male, white male. There is a whole lot more important things that need to be done other than changing a street name.

We have a bunch of people who did not know Yawkey personally accusing him of racism because his club was the last one in the majors to have a Black player and because he followed the Rules of the Elks Club in the South. These people do not know if Yawkey was truly a racist or if he just went along with the times, given that the Red Sox had spring training and minor league clubs in states where there were separate water fountains, restrooms, hotels, restaurants, etc., for Blacks. And let's face it, Boston has a history of racism that goes past Yawkey's time and Massachusetts was a slave state until the 1780s.
You talked about being denied service with a black colleague. You asked what has the government done about that. I think the civil Rights act of 1964 made it unlikely that you would be denied service under those circumstances.
Laws don't change attitudes. But Ollie's Barbecue has to serve you and your colleague lunch.

Yeah, there are a lot more important things to be done than changing a street name. But so what. No one is arguing that this will put an end to all bad things. But if we don't do things because there are more important things then we will never do anything.

And as far as Yawkey goes, what Lose said.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Don't you think that most of the clubs in the '40s and even into the '50s were reluctant to sign Blacks? Only six of the sixteen had Blacks on the major league roster before 1953 and two of the clubs in '53 didn't have one until September.
You keep repeating this like it's an earth shattering truth that you're laying on us. Most, if not all, people here understand the racial climate of the 1930s, 40s, 50s and 60s. There were a lot of racists and a lot of people who may not have been card-carying members of the KKK, but held a lot of abhorrent views on their fellow man. We get this.

What I don't think that you understand is that a majority of the people in this thread are arguing is that we should not lionize a man who did what "everyone else did". If you want to name a street after someone or erect a statute or honor in someway a person, let's pick someone who went against the grain. Broke the mold. Thought differently. Red Auerbach, Willie O'Ree, Sam Jethroe (who tried out for the Sox in the mid 40s but was told he wasn't good enough), the owner of the Boston Braves who brought Jethroe to Boston Lou Perini (he has some issues -- like moving the Braves to Milwaukee) or GM John Quinn. Folks like that.

Honest question, why should Boston honor Tom Yawkey? Aside from keeping the Red Sox in town (and hastening the Braves departure, BTW), what has he done to make BOSTON a better place to live?

There are other factors here too. Boston has not had a very good track record when it comes to race relations. To continue to honor a man who made it difficult for African Americans to be seen as equals, a man who was the boss of a horde of vehement racists, a man who simply did what his owner cohorts did* is not a good look. Boston, like this country, has a lot of wounds to heal race-wise. It should probably start by whiting out (IRONY!) the names of people who were racists (worst case scenarios) or too cowardly (best case scenario) to break rank with their era's thinking.

* BTW, if the Sox had been on the forefront of integration and started signing the best of the best in terms of Negro League stars, I would guarantee that we wouldn't have had to wait until 2004 to see a championship flag flying over Fenway Park and Ted Williams could have had his championship ring. So by being shortsighted and going along with the rest of his crew, Tom Yawkey seriously screwed that up. An owner who simply won't give his team and the city the best possible chance to win a World Series does not even deserve to have a toilet named after him.
 

chrisfont9

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The Civil Rights Act of 1964. That was really a success, wasn't it?

I never intimated that we should just give up and accept things but I am saying that although our Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal," that still is interpreted as men equals male, white male. There is a whole lot more important things that need to be done other than changing a street name.

We have a bunch of people who did not know Yawkey personally accusing him of racism because his club was the last one in the majors to have a Black player and because he followed the Rules of the Elks Club in the South. These people do not know if Yawkey was truly a racist or if he just went along with the times, given that the Red Sox had spring training and minor league clubs in states where there were separate water fountains, restrooms, hotels, restaurants, etc., for Blacks. And let's face it, Boston has a history of racism that goes past Yawkey's time and Massachusetts was a slave state until the 1780s.
I'm not accusing him of racism because the Sox didn't sign black players. I'm accusing him of racism because of reporting in Howard Bryant's book that make him sound like a pretty racist guy. It's possible he just went along with the times, long after times changed and all the other teams did too, for, as you say, I didn't know him. But I've informed myself as well as it's possible to do here.

Adding, a street name may not seem important, but if you were an older black man (or woman) who loved the sport of baseball and felt unwelcomed at Fenway in the 50s and 60s, thanks to the culture that built up around the team under Yawkey's stewardship, I bet this is more meaningful than you or I might perceive.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Adding, a street name may not seem important, but if you were an older black man (or woman) who loved the sport of baseball and felt unwelcomed at Fenway in the 50s and 60s, thanks to the culture that built up around the team under Yawkey's stewardship, I bet this is more meaningful than you or I might perceive.
Yes, and....any argument that objects to the move because a street name isn't that important kind of boomerangs. If street names aren't that important, why is it important that one continue to be named after this particular person? If it would make even a few people feel more comfortable and welcome in our city to restore that street to its old name, why on earth not do it?
 

charlieoscar

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What I don't think that you understand is that a majority of the people in this thread are arguing is that we should not lionize a man who did what "everyone else did".
And maybe Washington, D.C. should have its name changed...the Washington Monument, the State of Washington, Baltimore-Washington Airport, every street named Washington, the Jefferson Memorial, the coins and bills with their images, etc.

Howard Bryant's book...born in 1968, what makes him an expert on Yawkey?

yes...project ongoing [Civil Rights Act]
Yeah, ongoing for more than fifty years and we still have states trying their darndest to prevent the Black vote.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Sigh. Is this a hill you really want to die on?

And you’re right, Bryant wasn’t alive during the full Yawkey years. What does he know about it? What does any modern historian know about Ancient Rome, the Middle Ages, the Civil War. More specifically, what do you know about Yawkey? Did you grow up with him? Did you experience everything he did?

You’re flailing. Let it go.
 

Reverend

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Does anyone not believe that Yawkey ownership/stewardship delayed the team's return to championship glory?
 

charlieoscar

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Sigh. Is this a hill you really want to die on?

And you’re right, Bryant wasn’t alive during the full Yawkey years. What does he know about it? What does any modern historian know about Ancient Rome, the Middle Ages, the Civil War. More specifically, what do you know about Yawkey? Did you grow up with him? Did you experience everything he did?

You’re flailing. Let it go.
I never said that Yawkey was or was not a racist. Try learning how to read.
Where is the proof that he was racist? Or are we just basing it on opinions?

I did say: "This country has been racist ever since the first settlers came in and stole the land from the natives living here. The 14th Amendment didn't do away with racism against Blacks; it just made it subtler. It can't even give women equality. It's got a long ways to go with its Washington Monument and Jefferson Memorial."

According to a lot of the responders to what I have written, the name of Yawkey Way must be changed because he was a "racist" while it is perfectly okay to have our nation's capitol named after a slave owner. I get it; it's okay to live in a racist country just as long as your little street doesn't reflect it.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I never said that Yawkey was or was not a racist. Try learning how to read.
Where is the proof that he was racist? Or are we just basing it on opinions?

I did say: "This country has been racist ever since the first settlers came in and stole the land from the natives living here. The 14th Amendment didn't do away with racism against Blacks; it just made it subtler. It can't even give women equality. It's got a long ways to go with its Washington Monument and Jefferson Memorial."

According to a lot of the responders to what I have written, the name of Yawkey Way must be changed because he was a "racist" while it is perfectly okay to have our nation's capitol named after a slave owner. I get it; it's okay to live in a racist country just as long as your little street doesn't reflect it.
Okay. Then answer this question, in your opinion was Tom Yawkey racist? Pretty simple, yes or no question.

People, including me, have provided you with a lot of proof. You are ignoring it by saying, "Well, you weren't there." No shit. There were a lot of things that occurred in that annals of history that I don't find all that great either.

As for your notion that Tom Yawkey and George Washington are the same, I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. Raise your level of thought, please.
 

joe dokes

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I'm not racist. Where's my street??
Rev. Streets was in New Haven:
https://www.nhregister.com/connecticut/article/In-New-Haven-a-familiar-face-takes-the-helm-at-11408120.php


According to a lot of the responders to what I have written, the name of Yawkey Way must be changed because he was a "racist" while it is perfectly okay to have our nation's capitol named after a slave owner. I get it; it's okay to live in a racist country just as long as your little street doesn't reflect it.
My guess -- although apparently I can't know for sure because I am not them -- is that Red Sox ownership initially failed in its attempt to get the name of the nation's capital city changed. They were similarly rebuffed in their efforts at the monuments. Thus they settled for the local pat on the back.

I dont think there's anyone who posts here or is affiliated with the RedSox who thinks that "it's okay to live in a racist country just as long as your little street doesn't reflect it." And, in all honesty -- although I will give you the benefit of the doubt that it is not your intention -- to even suggest that is an insult to people who have given much (including their lives) in the continuing effort to change things little and big when it comes to racism in this country.

So stop. Or go away. Your choice. It's a free country.
 
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chrisfont9

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Does anyone not believe that Yawkey ownership/stewardship delayed the team's return to championship glory?
Right, it's not entirely about eradicating the stain of racism, although that would have been enough of a reason to rename the street. He wasn't merely racist; the racist culture of the team cost my dad the chance to grow up watching Jackie Robinson and Willie Mays (among others who literally came to the Sox asking for a contract) play in Boston. His racism undermined the product that was sold to us fans for decades. He had one job in Boston, owning the Sox, and he fucked it up because he and his underlings were so racist. And we should thank him by naming a street for him?
 

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That's the frustrating part of CHB. He does have the ability to write quality pieces from time to time; he just chooses not to.
 

EpsteinsGorillaSuit

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richgedman'sghost

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As I think I mentioned in the media thread I went to a roundtable discussion with CHB, Carfardo, Abraham and Tara Sullivan. Of course the topic of the name changing came up. They took an informal poll at the gathering and about 97 percent of the audience was against the change. Granted, the demographics of the audience must be considered. I think was one of only a handful of people who did not have first hand knowledge of the 1967 Red Sox. The audience was very old and very white with only a couple of people of color. I still thought the result was noteworthy if not surprising.
Abraham I think brought up a compromise solution of maybe changing the street name to Yawkey Foundation Way in honor of the work of the Foundation. CHB said he was deliberately keeping his own opinion private since it allows him to solicit the opinions of past Red Sox such as Tommy Harper, Reggie Smith, Mo Vaughn. In CHB's opinion, the players might not talk as freely to him about the issue if they knew that Dan had a preconceived opinion.
 

section15

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Honest question, why should Boston honor Tom Yawkey? Aside from keeping the Red Sox in town (and hastening the Braves departure, BTW), what has he done to make BOSTON a better place to live?
Not forgiving his actions/inactions on racial matters - but he DID do something extremely positive = he agreed to take over the primary sponsorship / promotion of the Jimmy Fund when the Braves left town in 1953.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I would have preferred something honoring a great African American in the history of Boston. However, just getting that racists name off the street is a small victory that will do for now anyways.
 

OCST

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I'm not racist. Where's my street??
where the streets have no name.
and if i go there, i'll go there with you.
it's all i can do.

Edit, to provide something other than a drive-by: it does seem to be a missed opportunity to make a statement with a new name, as opposed to just reverting back to the street-grid name that has no particular valence.
 
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EdRalphRomero

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If you were gonna re-name it after Pedro or Papi or whomever, it would be good to revert to a neutral name first. Then the new honoree can be the focus, not the removal of Yawkey.
 

Reverend

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If you were gonna re-name it after Pedro or Papi or whomever, it would be good to revert to a neutral name first. Then the new honoree can be the focus, not the removal of Yawkey.
The bridge over the Mass Pike has already been renamed for Papi, for what's it worth.

Which frankly fits like all get out, as far as I'm concerned.
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

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If you extrapolated KPD's argument further, it means if you support reverting Yawkey Way to Jersey Street, you can't follow Major League Baseball since there used to be a color line, otherwise you're a hypocrite.
 

Marbleheader

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I had the misfortune of still having 93.7 on my radio from the Red Sox game last night and Ordway, Merloni and Fauria were hammering Sam Kennedy saying they have destroyed Yawkey's reputation. Good lord.
 

Doc Zero

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Man, KPD hit me with a Twitter block faster than anyone's ever hit me with a Twitter block. I'm almost impressed.
 

Reverend

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Do some of these people even understand why we name things after people?
 

EdRalphRomero

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The bridge over the Mass Pike has already been renamed for Papi, for what's it worth.

Which frankly fits like all get out, as far as I'm concerned.
I only visit MA to go to Sox games and the endless parade of weddings for all my cousins whose families stayed in the state. Driving in Mass is endlessly baffling. Since it can't be any more confusing, I'm all for forcing clarifications along these lines -- "No you're looking for Big Papi Drive. This is Big Papi Boulevard."