XFL: Round 2?

[8slim]

College football programs have been around for 100+ years, you think they'd dry up and disappear in 2 years because 1% of the athlete pool was recruited to play in a new league? Doubtful. People follow college football for the uniforms, not for the players, anyway IMHO.

And one thing being overlooked here is that, while the players aren't paid a salary, they benefit from cutting edge training and nutrition and, in most cases now, luxury accommodations. The XFL is going to need a whole lot more than $100M to provide anything even comparable to what these players get from Power 5 schools in terms of training and exposure.

Plus, even if one thinks the education/degree these kids get the opportunity to pursue is a sham, by going to these colleges they get access to a vast network of alums and boosters. That tends to set up the majority of kids who don’t land in the NFL. Financial firms are loaded with ex-D1 football players who never sniffed the NFL, for example.

 

[jose melendez]

I suspect one of the problems they will have, among many, is that the instant something goes South, Vince will return to what he knows, which is doing things in the wrestling style, and it doesn't work when you can't script the games.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I suspect one of the problems they will have, among many, is that the instant something goes South, Vince will return to what he knows, which is doing things in the wrestling style, and it doesn't work when you can't script the games.

A Ha!

 

[reggiecleveland]

I do not think creatively changing the game is going to appeal to the Conservative crowd that just wants those pesky black guys to stand for the Anthem

 

[joe dokes]

I do not think creatively changing the game is going to appeal to the Conservative crowd that just wants those pesky black guys to stand for the Anthem

But Vince is counting on them to hand over their money just because he gave it a shot.

 

[Hoya81]

I suspect one of the problems they will have, among many, is that the instant something goes South, Vince will return to what he knows, which is doing things in the wrestling style, and it doesn't work when you can't script the games.

He tried that the first time around when things started getting bad. The first 20 seconds of this clip is playing up the feud between the NY/NJ coach and Jesse Ventura (doing color commentary).

 

[jose melendez]

I remember, that, the cheerleaders locker room, trying to get Tommy Maddox to cut a promo... it was all Vince going back to what he knows when times got tough. It will happen again.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

The first new content since the awkward rap video is out. It's definitely different than tanks and on fire helmets.





Also, I was reading an otherwise nothing article by the Las Vegas Review Journal, and the author threw this line in:

But will Las Vegas even be in the picture? Doesn’t appear likely. With the Raiders’ move to Las Vegas coinciding with the planned return of the XFL, a local tourism official said he would be surprised if the new stadium authority didn’t obtain a no-compete clause at Sam Boyd Stadium.

I'm assuming that both he and/or his local tourism are confused, because that doesn't make any sense to me at all. The stadium authority is trying to open an NFL stadium by fall 2020, so they secured no-compete clauses with the run down college stadium to prevent ... what? A possible XFL team from showing up in January 2020? Am I missing something? @Gunfighter 09

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

All those ads tell me is that the XFL is catering to low intelligence fans - which seems entirely consistent with their first spot being about how players would need to stand for the anthem.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

For the record, I haven't seen the league put anything out about the anthem (or the "criminality" line) since McMahon was asked about it at the press conference (I'm assuming that's what you're referring to with "first spot" -- if I've missed something, please let me know.) The December leak really hurt them, because it allowed people to use their imaginations and understandably come to the MAGA football conclusion. McMahon really needed an airtight answer to cut that speculation off at the start, and he just couldn't deliver. Hopefully two years of pace of play cartoons is enough to change some minds, but I'm not too optimistic.

Also, have you been to an NFL tailgate recently? I think the overlap between "football fans" and "low intelligence" is bigger than we might like to admit.

 

[Kliq]

The idea that this is going to be a right-wing football league has been dramatically overblown by people looking for it to fail. Those people need to realize that there are about 100 better reasons for why the XFL is going to fail.

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

The idea that this is going to be a right-wing football league has been dramatically overblown by people looking for it to fail. Those people need to realize that there are about 100 better reasons for why the XFL is going to fail.

How so? McMahon said it was going to be when his first comment about the league was about the flag. It's absolutely a right wing football league.

That doesn't mean that's the only reason its going to fail.

 

[kenneycb]

The NBA has all players stand for its anthem. Silver even sent out a memo reiterating it in September.

McMahon also stated there aren’t going to be any politics or social issues involved in the league, just football. But that’s not as fun of a headline to make fun of.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

How so? McMahon said it was going to be when his first comment about the league was about the flag. It's absolutely a right wing football league.

I'm not sure if you're being literal, but neither the introductory rap video nor McMahon during his prepared remarks said anything about the anthem/flag at the opening press conference; the emphasis was fast-paced, safer, family friendly. During the Q&A, he was first asked about Trump's potential support, to which he said he had no idea how Trump felt and that the league would not be involved in politics or social issues in any way. He was later asked about the anthem, and he bumbled around before confirming that the players would be expected to stand.

They definitely weren't great answers, so I won't fault anyone who was turned off by how he handled it. I think he blew his first and best opportunity to get away from this, as the headlines generated by the announcement confirm. But making it out to be a pillar of the league's marketing strategy is disingenuous, frankly.

 

[Kliq]

How so? McMahon said it was going to be when his first comment about the league was about the flag. It's absolutely a right wing football league.

That doesn't mean that's the only reason its going to fail.

That isn’t really what he said, he just said he expected players to stand for the anthem. As Fossum said, painting it like this is going to be a MAGA football league is disingenuous based on what we currently know about the league. The number one reaction I saw after the first press conference was about the anthem and that was just a little side note during the overall press conference.

 

[Reverend]

I'm not sure if you're being literal, but neither the introductory rap video nor McMahon during his prepared remarks said anything about the anthem/flag at the opening press conference; the emphasis was fast-paced, safer, family friendly. During the Q&A, he was first asked about Trump's potential support, to which he said he had no idea how Trump felt and that the league would not be involved in politics or social issues in any way. He was later asked about the anthem, and he bumbled around before confirming that the players would be expected to stand.

They definitely weren't great answers, so I won't fault anyone who was turned off by how he handled it. I think he blew his first and best opportunity to get away from this, as the headlines generated by the announcement confirm. But making it out to be a pillar of the league's marketing strategy is disingenuous, frankly.

Out of curiosity, do you consider WWE to be political in any way?

 

[Kliq]

Out of curiosity, do you consider WWE to be political in any way?

I know this question wasn't really meant for me; but I don't inherently find WWE more political than say, the NBA or the NFL. They might do some patriotic stuff on holidays, but I don't find the product on a regular basis to be anything but apolitical. The man running the company is a known Republican (well, his wife is, to be honest I don't think Vince knows or cares much about political affiliation) but you wouldn't know it just from watching the product.

You could make the argument that by during the occasional storyline where the American takes on the evil foreigner, is a political-based storyline, but I don't think it means anything more than when a movie has a foreign bad guy that is threatening Americans. In addition, the patriot vs the foreigner is a wrestling storyline that dates back over 100 years and is way more prevalent in wrestling promotions outside of the US, particularly in Japan and Mexico.

The irony in all of this is that Vince isn't even a fan of the national anthem, never playing it before WWE shows, which used to be customary for all promotions until the WWF took over in the 1980s. For big shows like WrestleMania, he usually opts for American the Beautiful instead.

 

[BigJimEd]

All those ads tell me is that the XFL is catering to low intelligence fans - which seems entirely consistent with their first spot being about how players would need to stand for the anthem.

Are you stating that fans that think players shoud stand for the anthem have low intelligence?

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

Are you stating that fans that think players shoud stand for the anthem have low intelligence?

I'm stating that there's a very high percentage of overlap in the venn diagram for the two groups.

That isn’t really what he said, he just said he expected players to stand for the anthem. As Fossum said, painting it like this is going to be a MAGA football league is disingenuous based on what we currently know about the league. The number one reaction I saw after the first press conference was about the anthem and that was just a little side note during the overall press conference.

Again - when your business makes a statement on one side of a big social issue - that influences how you're perceived and what you are. When McMahon said that players would need to stand, it meant something, whether or not he wanted it to. The sort of people who drive around with confederate flags hanging off their trucks (yeah, ironic) are going to watch because he said that.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

Out of curiosity, do you consider WWE to be political in any way?

I mean, McMahon is obviously a Republican, and I think it's fair to say that it's shone through in some ways in the past. They've certainly made a buck or two on regressive attitudes over the years, if you're inclined to associate that with just one political party.

In 2018 though, they're avoiding presidential politics like the plague, which I think is almost mind-blowing considering that the sitting president is literally in their Hall of Fame. That's why I never bought the speculation that the XFL would be MAGA football, and I think a lot of people are suffering from confirmation bias on this.

Again - when your business makes a statement on one side of a big social issue - that influences how you're perceived and what you are.

To the extent that perception is reality, you're certainly right. While I think your reaction is off base, it's one a lot of people share, and that's a reality the XFL is going to have to deal with.

 

[kenneycb]

I'm stating that there's a very high percentage of overlap in the venn diagram for the two groups.



Again - when your business makes a statement on one side of a big social issue - that influences how you're perceived and what you are. When McMahon said that players would need to stand, it meant something, whether or not he wanted it to. The sort of people who drive around with confederate flags hanging off their trucks (yeah, ironic) are going to watch because he said that.

So who is the NBA catering to with their statement on standing for the national anthem? It's a lazy argument that is being made to fit a pre-destined narrative that emerged when the return of the XFL was still leaking out.

 

[BigJimEd]

I'm stating that there's a very high percentage of overlap in the venn diagram for the two groups.

Do you know of any studies or anything to back that up? Or is it just your personal perception/bias?


I agree with those that calling it "right wing" football is severely overblown and premature

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

So who is the NBA catering to with their statement on standing for the national anthem? It's a lazy argument that is being made to fit a pre-destined narrative that emerged when the return of the XFL was still leaking out.

Its not a lazy argument.

Optics matter. If you don't want to politicize your business, don't make overtly political statements while discussing your business. And if you do choose to politicize your business, there are consequences to that.

The XFL, through Vince McMahon made a statement implying that a hard right wing stance is the correct one, and the left wing stance is not. Because of that, I believe the vast majority of their viewers will identify as right wing. Is this really controversial?

It doesn't matter if Vince McMahon wanted the new XFL to be "right wing football" - he, intentionally or otherwise, marketed it as such. He tied it to that cause.

 

[kenneycb]

But he did not make a hard right wing stance. The NBA makes the same exact stance and they are the farthest thing from a right wing league. People took his words and interpreted that as his stance. He literally said he wanted the league to be devoid of politics but people don't seem to be latching on to that. You do not have to interpret intent or meaning on that, which is, again, an actual quote from Vince McMahon talking about the XFL. But laziness and initial narratives run the course nowadays.

There aren't any actual details about the league so people just want to jump to conclusions so they can get a zinger on Twitter and a few extra followers. It's more of an issue I have with society in general but this is an example of it in action.

 

[Kliq]

It's funnier if the league fails if it is a MAGA-league; and it also justifies peoples' opinions on MAGA if the football league fails, and since I think it is a slam dunk to fail, it is logical for people to want to attach that label to the XFL.

 

[Reverend]

http://www.businessinsider.com/politics-sports-you-like-2013-3

 

[Awesome Fossum]

It doesn't matter if Vince McMahon wanted the new XFL to be "right wing football" - he, intentionally or otherwise, marketed it as such. He tied it to that cause.

The laziness is interpreting his answers as a hard line stance, given that he didn't bring the issue up, he initially tried to side step the topic entirely, and the league hasn't touched the topic since. He didn't tie the XFL to this cause; others set a noose and he walked right into it.

It's funnier if the league fails if it is a MAGA-league; and it also justifies peoples' opinions on MAGA if the football league fails, and since I think it is a slam dunk to fail, it is logical for people to want to attach that label to the XFL.

That's a shrewd and depressing observation. Maybe disingenuous is a better word than lazy.

The irony in all of this is that Vince isn't even a fan of the national anthem, never playing it before WWE shows, which used to be customary for all promotions until the WWF took over in the 1980s.

I was under the impression that Lilian Garcia sang it before every show when she was with the company. Is that wrong? Or did they stop when she left?

I watched the original XFL broadcast to see if the anthem was included, and it wasn't. The players made their entrances and they went straight to the "coin flip." That was pre-9/11 though. Simpler times.

http://www.businessinsider.com/politics-sports-you-like-2013-3

Thanks for sharing, that's interesting. I never would have guessed that WWE's audience skewed Democrat.

 

[Bozo Texino]

Thanks for sharing, that's interesting. I never would have guessed that WWE's audience skewed Democrat.

Lots of Latino and Black Americans at WWE shows.

 

[Hoodie Sleeves]

The laziness is interpreting his answers as a hard line stance, given that he didn't bring the issue up, he initially tried to side step the topic entirely, and the league hasn't touched the topic since. He didn't tie the XFL to this cause; others set a noose and he walked right into it.

Sure - and he's had ample opportunity to step out of that noose, and declined to do so.

You don't want to be political? Don't have flag displays. The fact that he's decided XFL2 will play the anthem, and have players salute the flag, despite the original XFL not doing that is clearly political.

 

[SumnerH]

Lots of Latino and Black Americans at WWE shows.

Yeah, my first thought looking at that was to be surprised at the NHL skewing Republican; after all, it's much more popular in the north, especially the northeast, than in the south. My second thought was that it's also a predominately white fanbase.

 

[The Napkin]

Sure - and he's had ample opportunity to step out of that noose, and declined to do so.

You don't want to be political? Don't have flag displays. The fact that he's decided XFL2 will play the anthem, and have players salute the flag, despite the original XFL not doing that is clearly political.

Is this performance art?

 

[Awesome Fossum]

Sure - and he's had ample opportunity to step out of that noose, and declined to do so.

You don't want to be political? Don't have flag displays. The fact that he's decided XFL2 will play the anthem, and have players salute the flag, despite the original XFL not doing that is clearly political.

If you were the XFL PR guy, what would you recommend doing to escape the noose now that it's cinched in tight? Surely you don't actually believe that dropping the anthem entirely wouldn't also be interpreted as political.

I think the best way to go at the outset would have been something along the lines of "we'll follow the NBA's lead on this" or maybe "we haven't even picked cities, let alone talked about the format of the pregame." But that ship has sailed, and I don't know what there is to be done at this point other than laying low and hoping that the NFL has it sorted out on their end by the 2019 season. This thing is quicksand; the more you struggle, the more you'll sink.

 

[kenneycb]

Isn't there also a pretty good chance the anthem will be significantly less politicized in two years? Before Kaepernick, hell even for the first couple times he did it, the anthem for 99% of fans and athletes was just that thing that took a couple minutes before the action started. I wouldn't be surprised if it reverts back to that in a short while as well.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

Isn't there also a pretty good chance the anthem will be significantly less politicized in two years? Before Kaepernick, hell even for the first couple times he did it, the anthem for 99% of fans and athletes was just that thing that took a couple minutes before the action started. I wouldn't be surprised if it reverts back to that in a short while as well.

The NFL mandated that the players stand on the sideline starting in 2009 because they began to receive money from the Department of Defense. Prior to this, all players remained in the locker room for the anthem.

 

[kenneycb]

And the amount of fans that both a) have made that connection and b) actually care/cared about that connection are quite minimal.

 

[Reverend]

Is this performance art?

Did we get an answer on this?

 

[OCST]

Getting back to goofy ABA-type rule innovations, I always wanted the PAT to be a true "conversion": it has to be kicked by the player scoring the touchdown.

You'd then have to factor in whether you're going to put a second-string RB at the goal line, for example, because he's a better kicker, if you're down six in the fourth quarter, say.

You'd also have high comedy on the odd occasion where a nose tackle ends up with a pick-six off a tipped ball.

From there I'd go to eliminating placekicks altogether in favor of dropkicks, but this would be a good start for me.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

It wouldn't be my cup of tea, but I'm getting the sense that they're going to eliminate special teams entirely. No punts, no kicks.

I really liked the 2001 punt rules: no fair catch, five yard halo, offense can't cross the line of scrimmage until the kick, and the ball is live after 25 yards. Some coaches would "onside punt" on third and long to try to recover downfield; others were so put off that they refused to exploit the rule on principle.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

Can we make this thread a catch all for non-NFL pro ball? I nominate "The Replacements: CFL, the ruins of Arena, and the march to XFL 2020" as the new thread name.

The Arena Football League released their 2018 schedule and announced a bunch of changes. Here are the highlights/lowlights:

• They are down to just four teams, the fewest since the first full season in 1987. The Cleveland Gladiators and Tampa Bay Storm are no more; the Albany Empire joins the reigning champion Philadelphia Soul and Ted Leonsis owned Washington Valor and Baltimore Brigade in the league.
  
  
• After a 12-week season, all four teams will make the playoffs. If that doesn't sound ridiculous enough, the semifinals are now going to be two-leg contest. Higher seed gets to pick which week they play at home. If the teams split, the aggregate score determines the winner (sort of a distinction without a difference; this is basically an eight-quarter game), and in the event of a tie, they will play an overtime round. I'm guessing this means it's possible for the first leg to end in a tie, but they didn't clarify that point.
  
  
• Season ticket holders will automatically get free tickets to all road games.
  
  
• Rule changes are forthcoming: "The competition committee also expects to make changes to game play that will shorten the duration of games and speed up the pace of play." The rule change they need to make is ending the "illegal defense" rule that limits defensive player movement. That's by far the worst part of Arena ball, IMO.

While Arena couldn't be lower, the CFL is the healthiest it's ever been. Here are the top story lines as the league opened free agency today:

• The Toronto Argonauts are reigning champions and have are now fully owned by Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment. Marc Trestman won the Grey Cup in his first year back in the league.
  
  
• All is not entirely well in Toronto, as former Cowboys linebacker Victor Butler made headlines for penning an article that beings with the line "The Argonauts are holding me hostage!" The gist is that CFL players are required to sign two-year contracts, but teams make handshake deals to release players after the first year so that they can pursue the NFL. The league has put out a statement saying that these deals are against the rules, and players like Butler have been more or less lied to. Not a great round of press when it comes to recruiting Americans.
  
  
• Everyone is on Johnny Manziel watch. The Tiger-Cats hold his rights, but it seems like Montreal is the most likely landing spot, with his former college OC Mike Sherman now in charge. My feeling is that Manziel is using this round of press to try to land on a NFL 90-man roster while trying to beat every penny he can out of Montreal. This is a two-year commitment, and if he plays well and behaves in Year 1, he's going to be a bargain in Year 2.
  
  
• The CFL currently sits at 9 teams, and the dream for a long time has been to get a team in The Maritimes to stretch the league from coast to coast, balance the conferences, and balance the schedule. For the first time in a long time, there appears to be a serious potential ownership group in Halifax. As it's always been, the missing piece is a stadium.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

Right on cue, Manziel has agreed to participate in The Spring League:

Launched last year, The Spring League essentially is a pre-draft showcase for available players who may end up being signed by NFL teams after the draft, ostensibly to fill needs that aren’t satisfied via the process of picking incoming rookies, one round at a time.

In 2016, all Spring League games were played at The Greenbrier, in West Virginia. This year, the games will be played in Austin, with four games played over a two-week period.

Manziel will play for the Spring League South team, with games on Saturday, April 7 and Saturday, April 14.

It's not a league; it's basically a training camp for free agents who want to get in front of NFL scouts. In the first iterations, many of the players were actually paying to participate. As best I can tell, the business model is to survive long enough for the NFL to agree to fund them.

This move doesn't totally close the door on the CFL; rookies report to camp on May 16 and veterans on May 20, so if no NFL team bites, he can still opt to head up north.

 

[richgedman'sghost]

Sure - and he's had ample opportunity to step out of that noose, and declined to do so.

You don't want to be political? Don't have flag displays. The fact that he's decided XFL2 will play the anthem, and have players salute the flag, despite the original XFL not doing that is clearly political.

Hoodie.. You still have not answered the question though. Do you consider the NBA a right wing league? The NBA requires all players to stand for the anthem. You are projecting your preconceived notion about what the XFL will be like. All sports leagues have flag displays. Even MLB and the NHL display the flag and sign the national anthem.

 

[Reverend]

Hoodie.. You still have not answered the question though. Do you consider the NBA a right wing league? The NBA requires all players to stand for the anthem. You are projecting your preconceived notion about what the XFL will be like. All sports leagues have flag displays. Even MLB and the NHL display the flag and sign the national anthem.

It’s kinda awesome that such a tiny typo could turn the entire thing into something that would, in fact, be totally inappropriate.

 

[Boston Brawler]

It’s kinda awesome that such a tiny typo could turn the entire thing into something that would, in fact, be totally inappropriate.

Or, totally appropriate.

 

[Bozo Texino]

The XFL draft is today!

This league is going to be cold diarrhea.

 

[InstaFace]

They're hiring like crazy, especially in tech positions, and if they weren't all located in Stamford CT, I'd have relished the opportunity to hit the NFL in the pocketbook a little bit.

 

[reggiecleveland]

The NBA has all players stand for its anthem. Silver even sent out a memo reiterating it in September.

McMahon also stated there aren’t going to be any politics or social issues involved in the league, just football. But that’s not as fun of a headline to make fun of.

Yeah but that was the Chinese anthem

 

[Ale Xander]

Some of the players with Foxboro and Boston connections include Jonas Gray, Andre Williams, and Sterling Moore

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Poor Jonas Gray hasn't even been drafted in the first 9 rounds of only skill players.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/10/15/xfl-draft-live-stream-follow-blog-every-team-fills-out-roster/3983857002/

 

[kelpapa]

The first player selected in the draft, Rashard Davis, has his name spelled incorrectly on that list.

 

[Captaincoop]

If Rashard Davis is the first player selected in the draft...not great.