XFL: Round 2?

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
Are they going to play games or just do the national anthem then send everyone home?
 

mauidano

Mai Tais for everyone!
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2006
35,920
Maui

It is ABSOLUTELY a right wing football league. Good luck with getting quality players. Don't forget Vince and Linda; your buddy Donald crashed and burned his last foray in pro football famously.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,213
What would a right (or left) wing football league look like? Stress on toughness and lack of rules to protect the players? That was the original XFL.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
Does it matter that much? People watch college games; there's enough skilled players out there if it's marketed well, there's antipathy toward the NFL, and there are things they can do to make the games more watchable.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
Also, they're 71 and 72 respectively, but whose insides look worse right now? Trump with his McDonald's diet, or McMahon after 20 years of running what must be at least a gram of tren a week?
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,973
Here
If this is designed to be the right wing football league, I'm gonna barf.
Yes, I predicted this in the wrestling thread. It’s going to be massively catered to the Kapernick haters and “good old fashioned football,” and it will probably get some benefits from Congress and Trump along the way.

It will also fail because the real reason America is becoming less interested is because watching people die slowly is no fun and we now know that’s what’s happening. The level of competition will suck, too.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
Not only will XFL 2: The Quickening fail; it will hurt McMahon’s core business. The WWE might draw disproportionately from a Trump-loving crowd today, but its future growth lies almost entirely outside the United States, where Trump is as popular as hemorrhoids.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,624
Does it matter that much? People watch college games; there's enough skilled players out there if it's marketed well, there's antipathy toward the NFL, and there are things they can do to make the games more watchable.
Did you watch the XFL? It fucking sucked.

Good football (NFL) is doing shitty in the ratings. Bad football is going to be worse. This thing is going to crash and burn. Especially if it’s right-wing footbaw.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
Did you watch the XFL? It fucking sucked.

Good football (NFL) is doing shitty in the ratings. Bad football is going to be worse. This thing is going to crash and burn. Especially if it’s right-wing footbaw.
I'd have no idea how to game out the economics of it, but if they get the players on the cheap because they're only other option is the CFL, and the infrastructure is there in terms of stadiums (what did the XFL use?), then I wonder what percentage of NFL fans lean right-wing in the first place and what the cross section is between those and people who have stopped watching the NFL.

Also, it's anecdotal, but the people I know who care about the national anthem are also the people who seem to care least about concussions. Cuz men are men and America and all that.

And, if you have the President backing it, who knows, that's a lot of publicity and currying favor and potential thumbs on the scale because we now live in a banana republic.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

has big, douchey shoulders
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
It will fail miserably, as have all other professional football leagues in this country other than Arena. And that's because Arena found an interesting niche and didn't try to compete with the NFL.
People don't want to watch second rate football with no name players, and no network is going to pony up significant money to televise it.
 

SumnerH

Malt Liquor Picker
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
31,999
Alexandria, VA
Good football (NFL) is doing shitty in the ratings.
"Shitty" in the sense that it consistently crushes everything else in the ratings.

Top 8 rated shows last week:
1. Pats/Dolphins
2. Chargers/Chiefs
3. Bears/Lions
4. NFL Postgame
5. NFL Prekick
6. NFL Gameday Kickoff
7. Sportscenter
8. NFL Postgame (late)
9. Real Housewives of Atlanta
10. Anderson Cooper 360

That's in the demo; overall are slightly different but the basic picture is the same (the top 5 and 6 of the top 7 are NFL products).

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/weekly-ratings/cable-top-25-for-dec-11-17-2017/
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,797
Ugh, I can’t believe I’m going to have to waste brain space thinking about this league.

The general idea behind it is that the league can survive living off of rights fees if they can hook up with at least a major cable outlet. While you could argue football is down in popularity, the reality is the rights fees for the NFL are only going up. Unlike the XFL, which was partially owned by a network and thus was never really going to see a ton of money from rights fees; in theory if they could get a following the league could survive on rights fees from networks. It wouldn’t have to necessarily draw large attendances to remain viable.

Of course, the UFL was able to link up with some cable companies and had a lot of very wealthy business people backing it, and it never made anyone a dime. Vince is allegedly backing on the idea that people are sick of the NFL because they don’t like how the league is being run; whether that be anthem protests, concussion rules, etc. so a renegade league would have a chance at snagging those fans and building his league. Maybe he’ll get Trump on board as well. However, that thinking is ignorant to the fact that A) The decline in popularity of the NFL is exaggerated and B) People who stopped watching football probably stopped because of over-saturation of football or they were worried about player safety, or they thought the owners were assholes. All of those things would be counter-intuitive to what McMahon (allegedly) thinks will attract fans to his league.

Speaking of right-wing billionaires, Rupert Murdoch selling his company rather than pass it on to his children likely did have an effect on Vince. Vince has three “children” involved in the company; but Shane is only a performer and does not have any real control over the company and Stephanie is involved as a performer and as an ambassador and public relations role. Both of those roles would still be there for them if WWE was sold to a buyer. Stephanie’s husband, Triple H, is the only one really involved in the company in an executive capacity and is the heir apparent to Vince’s role whenever he decides to step down or dies; and he of course would likely still have that role if WWE is sold, since there are so few people in the world that would be qualified to have that position. Vince has always been unlikely to sell; but I know for a fact that when UFC sold for $4 billion that changed everything. There is no way WWE iS worth that much, but if they get an offer for say, $2.5 billion, it would be hard to turn down.

It should be noted that Vince’s ventures outside of wrestling; whether it was the World Bodybuilding Federation, ICOPRO, WWF New York or the XFL, have all been massive failures. If you watch wrestling now the general consensus is that Vince is behind the times and doesn’t have a good handle on what the mass audience in 2017 wants; so yeah, this isn’t likely to end well.
 

The Needler

New Member
Dec 7, 2016
1,803
I would guess they'd piggyback on the future Big Baller League's recruitment of players fresh out of high school, or even a year or two out before they become eligible for the NFL. What was the minimum age last time around?
 

deanx0

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2004
2,513
Orlando, FL
There are times when I really miss working up there--and this is one of them. I cannot imagine the chaos at corporate right now with his marketing and management teams furiously telling him what a great idea this is while they all die a bit more on the inside...
 

BunnzMcGinty

New Member
Jul 17, 2011
269
Vince McMahon will generate a lot of interest and buzz, promise faster games, more action, fewer flags, right all the wrongs of the NFL, promote a big premier packed with “stars” who were A-List presenters at the Daytime Emmys or CMA awards in 2003 and stellar production values. And people will tune in, and see basically the same football they’ve always seen, only without any players they’ve ever heard of or any teams they have any loyalty to.

Just like the last XFL. As I recall, the first week’s ratings were through the roof, and immediately tanked the following week. Does anyone remember much about the XFL other than the “He Hate Me” guy? Hell I remember the USFL better, and I was 9 when it folded.
 

jose melendez

Earl of Acie
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2003
31,092
Geneva, Switzerland
Not only will XFL 2: The Quickening fail; it will hurt McMahon’s core business. The WWE might draw disproportionately from a Trump-loving crowd today, but its future growth lies almost entirely outside the United States, where Trump is as popular as hemorrhoids.
WWE has a really ethnically diverse crowd, much more so than a lot of forms of entertainment, so I'd bet it's pretty politically divided. On the other hand, it's mostly men, which leans more Trump.
 

jose melendez

Earl of Acie
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2003
31,092
Geneva, Switzerland
It just occurred to me that if Trump wanted to by an NFL team, even after being POTUS, the owners would probably still try to keep him out of their club.
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
6,121
I wish I was rich enough to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a dumbass idea.

This is so monumentally stupid for reasons already mentioned in this thread. I'm just going to enjoy the hype machine, watch a couple games, be entertained by the crash and burn.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,543
One of the many reasons the xfl failed was that it looked too much like football. So it was bad football. Friends and I watching at the time thought they had to do thing like penalties for running out of binds. Or allowing players on the sidelines to make tackles if you do. Encourage taunting.
Get rid of eligible/ineligible receiver distinctions. "Everyone go long!" Rollerball/ outdoor arenaball.

Otherwise it's just shitty football.

Ultimately, it's going to be a McMahon family grift. He'll raise a lot of money from wealthy suckers who think that if every team is wearing camo and the stadium toilet paper has Kaepernick's face on it, then the nation's problems will be solved.

Then there'll be a bankruptcy through which everyone not named McMahon gets 15 cents on the dollar.

Brought to you by Sinclair Broadcasting.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,496
around the way
One of the many reasons the xfl failed was that it looked too much like football. So it was bad football. Friends and I watching at the time thought they had to do thing like penalties for running out of binds. Or allowing players on the sidelines to make tackles if you do. Encourage taunting.
Get rid of eligible/ineligible receiver distinctions. "Everyone go long!" Rollerball/ outdoor arenaball.

Otherwise it's just shitty football.

Ultimately, it's going to be a McMahon family grift. He'll raise a lot of money from wealthy suckers who think that if every team is wearing camo and the stadium toilet paper has Kaepernick's face on it, then the nation's problems will be solved.

Then there'll be a bankruptcy through which everyone not named McMahon gets 15 cents on the dollar.

Brought to you by Sinclair Broadcasting.
Looking too much like football is the key point.

There aren't really enough "stand, you ungrateful dark people" fans out there to sustain a professional league. Don't get me wrong, there's a shitload of those guys. But not enough.

The new league would have to have a LOT of rules differences, in order to attract an audience that supplements the anthem people. I'm thinking of the kickoff gimmick that the XFL had, but a bunch more things like it.

If the only answer to "why should I watch this?" is "because they stand" and "not flag football", they may not complete their first season.
 

Captaincoop

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
13,488
Santa Monica, CA
As silly as this may be, if it actually happens, there will probably be some benefit down the road to football fans.

Whenever one of these alternate leagues launches, it inevitably employs some gimmick or innovation that gets adopted by the major league.

The ABA was a horribly conceived and executed mess, but gave us the three-point line and the dunk contest. The USFL introduced replay challenges. The original XFL, IIRC, introduced the sky cameras that the NFL now uses.

It would be great if someone shamed the NFL into fixing some of the problems with its on-field product - a different approach to pass interference and the catch rule would be a good start.
 

Garshaparra

New Member
Feb 27, 2008
533
McCarver's Mushy Mouth
There aren't really enough "stand, you ungrateful dark people" fans out there to sustain a professional league. Don't get me wrong, there's a shitload of those guys. But not enough.
I dunno, NASCAR does pretty well.

I'm excited for this because it'll take Vince McMahon (and possibly Kevin Dunn, WWE's production chief) away from their stale, poorly conceived storylines on their 2 shows and perhaps put it in more capable hands. HHH has had a good run with NXT, and now it's time to see how he does with the full roster and 5 hours of live TV (plus 1-2 PPVs a month) to run.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,314
As silly as this may be, if it actually happens, there will probably be some benefit down the road to football fans.

Whenever one of these alternate leagues launches, it inevitably employs some gimmick or innovation that gets adopted by the major league.

The ABA was a horribly conceived and executed mess, but gave us the three-point line and the dunk contest. The USFL introduced replay challenges. The original XFL, IIRC, introduced the sky cameras that the NFL now uses.

It would be great if someone shamed the NFL into fixing some of the problems with its on-field product - a different approach to pass interference and the catch rule would be a good start.
In the hands of different people, I agree. And maybe there will be some marketing innovations, but this seems more a reaction to football not being 'Merican enough than any desire or idea to fix the on the field problems.
 

budcrew08

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 30, 2007
8,616
upstate NY
I'd have no idea how to game out the economics of it, but if they get the players on the cheap because they're only other option is the CFL, and the infrastructure is there in terms of stadiums (what did the XFL use?), then I wonder what percentage of NFL fans lean right-wing in the first place and what the cross section is between those and people who have stopped watching the NFL.

Also, it's anecdotal, but the people I know who care about the national anthem are also the people who seem to care least about concussions. Cuz men are men and America and all that.

And, if you have the President backing it, who knows, that's a lot of publicity and currying favor and potential thumbs on the scale because we now live in a banana republic.
XFL used some of the existing stadiums, I think LA was in the Coliseum? I remember the XFL the first time, I thought it was cool in 2001 when I was 19; at 36, maybe not so much.
 

budcrew08

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 30, 2007
8,616
upstate NY
Vince McMahon will generate a lot of interest and buzz, promise faster games, more action, fewer flags, right all the wrongs of the NFL, promote a big premier packed with “stars” who were A-List presenters at the Daytime Emmys or CMA awards in 2003 and stellar production values. And people will tune in, and see basically the same football they’ve always seen, only without any players they’ve ever heard of or any teams they have any loyalty to.

Just like the last XFL. As I recall, the first week’s ratings were through the roof, and immediately tanked the following week. Does anyone remember much about the XFL other than the “He Hate Me” guy? Hell I remember the USFL better, and I was 9 when it folded.
I remember that there was no opening kickoff, two guys (usually WRs) would run and try to dive on a “fumble” to determine possession. Of course, most guys got hurt doing it haha.
The XFL 30for30 is terrific, even if it was done by Dick Ebersol’s son (Ebersol, the former prez of NBC).
 

axx

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
8,131
I will say this - the NFL and the players union is headed for very nasty negotiations when the contract expires. You should totally expect a long lockout and/or strike. And then you have the TV deal expiring the following year and that's going to be drastically lower. So there's definitely an opportunity here.
 

Bosox1528

New Member
Dec 22, 2017
178
I don't see why everyone's groaning about a right wing football league. If you don't like it, don't watch. There's nothing wrong with trying to exploit a niche in the market. Right wing fans are pissed off. There's a lot of them. Somebody sees an opportunity and are gonna try to take it. Maybe it won't work maybe it will.

I'm not going to watch it because I watch football for quality, and this won't have as high of a quality, but I see nothing wrong with the idea
 

NortheasternPJ

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 16, 2004
19,334
I don't see why everyone's groaning about a right wing football league. If you don't like it, don't watch. There's nothing wrong with trying to exploit a niche in the market. Right wing fans are pissed off. There's a lot of them. Somebody sees an opportunity and are gonna try to take it. Maybe it won't work maybe it will.

I'm not going to watch it because I watch football for quality, and this won't have as high of a quality, but I see nothing wrong with the idea
Because it’s a message board. That’s what it’s here for.

This is like trotting our the Browns vs the Browns every week and expecting people to watch. It’s going to be brutal.
 

Awesome Fossum

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
3,910
Austin, TX
Everyone shouldn't get too locked in on the right wing stuff. That's an assumption people are drawing; we have no evidence that's Vince's vision, and it's worth noting that WWE programming steers far clear of politics under the current administration. Which is kind of amazing, considering Trump is literally a WWE Hall of Famer.

The value proposition for the XFL is simple: it's AAA football in the spring with major league production values and a tweaked ruleset. That's it.

If you fall hard on either side of the NFL vs College Football debate, I can see you not being interested in what the XFL has to offer. Their target market is the people who are just as happy to watch football on Saturdays as they are on Sundays. Hopefully enough of them will also be happy to watch it in the spring.
 

Awesome Fossum

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
3,910
Austin, TX
XFL used some of the existing stadiums, I think LA was in the Coliseum? I remember the XFL the first time, I thought it was cool in 2001 when I was 19; at 36, maybe not so much.
The original stadiums were the LA Coliseum, AT&T Park, Sam Boyd Stadium, Soldier Field, the Liberty Bowl, Legion Field, the Citrus Bowl and Giants Stadium.

Soccer specific stadiums have since been built in LA, Orlando, Chicago, and New York. That's a much better capacity for the XFL, and I'll be interested to see if they pursue those types of venues this time around. The Chargers and Toronto Argonauts both played in soccer specific stadiums this season.