FWIW, the first couple of minutes of episode 1 of Welcome to Wrexham is a pretty cool rewatch. The part where they are walking on the ground and McElhenney tells Reynolds that there is a version of the story where they are villains.
Wrexham? I hardly know him.
- Thread starter DJnVa
- Start date
It very much seems like the Ref saw he was close to the tunnel and decided to end the game and make a run for it (not that it was probably anything but a few more seconds anyways). I love the speed he and the linesmen show getting off the field.
Will be interesting to see what happens with Wrexham moving forward.
A great story, to be sure, but Rob and Ryan got promoted basically the same way every team gets to the top of the table. They were able to spend more money than almost anyone else, and bought talent and coaching that was levels above where they were.
That probably isn’t going to be the case for too much longer. Eventually, they’re going to run into the issue where the stadium and club only generates so much revenue and they can’t just outspend everyone else.
I don’t know where that point is. Maybe they’re well funded for the Football League. I think it’s cool that the team has had success, I just don’t know how long they can keep that momentum moving forward.
A great story, to be sure, but Rob and Ryan got promoted basically the same way every team gets to the top of the table. They were able to spend more money than almost anyone else, and bought talent and coaching that was levels above where they were.
That probably isn’t going to be the case for too much longer. Eventually, they’re going to run into the issue where the stadium and club only generates so much revenue and they can’t just outspend everyone else.
I don’t know where that point is. Maybe they’re well funded for the Football League. I think it’s cool that the team has had success, I just don’t know how long they can keep that momentum moving forward.
I don't think they get too far ahead of themselves, but it's clear the club offers players, managers, and personnel ancillary benefits that nearly no other club can offer. That will help them stay competitive even if they move up the table and have to tangle with other clubs with the same or more financial might. The English FA really owe these guys--people are going to tune into lower leagues for the first time ever because of Wrexham (myself included).
Right. Deal with TikTok and Expedia are several tiers above where they’re at. An American tour? A television series? They must sell jerseys and merchandise at a rate far beyond their peer clubs.
The big trick for the owners will be creating a virtuous cycle here where the ad & merch sales feed stadium improvements that support the squad that pump the ad & merch…
It’s a wild opportunity they’ve created here. And an amazing story.
I think they’re also self aware enough to know that at some point they’ll be smaller fish in a bigger sea.
Ryan is a pretty savvy businessman. He’s sold Aviation Gin. He’s sold Mint Mobile. I suspect at some point they sell Wrexham for a handsome profit, but that might be a few years and another promotion down the line.
Anyone thinking Wrexham will be in the PL is probably fooling themselves. But on the other side of the coin, the team has the history, fan base and even the bones of infrastructure to be a legit league 1 team, even with just a decent amount of investment.
The fact that they were in the National League is probably under where a team of their size probably should have been. They were completely mismanaged for many many years to the point that the fans had to pass the hat to save the team from folding altogether.
The fact that they were in the National League is probably under where a team of their size probably should have been. They were completely mismanaged for many many years to the point that the fans had to pass the hat to save the team from folding altogether.
Wrexham was in the Championship from '79-82 and League One (and whatever it was named prior) for most of its history. They clearly have sufficient fan support to stay in the EFL, and probably to make it to League One. Further development than that would be unrealistic but that is a high quality level of football for the fans at that point - they would feel like they had been restored to the place their club deserved.
The median payroll in League One is under £ 4M. Double that for coaching staff, marketing and other business-side expenses (the payroll-to-revenue ratios* of the premier league are stupid and basically not a guide to most sensible leagues and clubs), and you've got a pretty reasonable total amount of revenue to cover. Heck, the DocuSeries makes $3.2M / year all by itself. As that link details, season ticket sales have tripled, the kit sponsorship deals have been racking up... it seems like a pretty sustainable jump in spend for them.
edit: in fact I'm going to embed the twitter thread, it's that important to understanding their situation.
View: https://twitter.com/JoePompliano/status/1580587331081613312
There's also been a proposed EFL salary cap of 60% of club revenue, which while strongly pushed back on in the Championship, makes a lot more sense for League One and League Two and may yet be adopted, and that would protect Wrexham to some degree as long as their fan following can be sustained.
* speaking of club economics like that, the Deloitte annual football report from 2022 is fascinating reading start to finish, for anyone on this board.
The median payroll in League One is under £ 4M. Double that for coaching staff, marketing and other business-side expenses (the payroll-to-revenue ratios* of the premier league are stupid and basically not a guide to most sensible leagues and clubs), and you've got a pretty reasonable total amount of revenue to cover. Heck, the DocuSeries makes $3.2M / year all by itself. As that link details, season ticket sales have tripled, the kit sponsorship deals have been racking up... it seems like a pretty sustainable jump in spend for them.
edit: in fact I'm going to embed the twitter thread, it's that important to understanding their situation.
View: https://twitter.com/JoePompliano/status/1580587331081613312
There's also been a proposed EFL salary cap of 60% of club revenue, which while strongly pushed back on in the Championship, makes a lot more sense for League One and League Two and may yet be adopted, and that would protect Wrexham to some degree as long as their fan following can be sustained.
* speaking of club economics like that, the Deloitte annual football report from 2022 is fascinating reading start to finish, for anyone on this board.
Last edited:
5,500 more seats will help. I guess they now have to balance club building in a sustainable way with off the chart expectations. Will the fan base be ok and will international interest remain with a run of toiling in Leagues One and Two? If they want to get to the championship and stay there, which seems like a stretch but doable with the clout these guys have, they are going to need to be really smart and continue to surround themselves with good people.
Spending money alone is never enough to get promoted. It’s obvious but you need to spend money correctly. An 800,000 pound contract is make or break. They hit gold with Paul Mullin and rode him to a trophy. But one signing like that, which does not work out, and you are struggling mid-table at best.
Getting out of the National League is huge, because there are only two teams of 24 that drop from League Two each year, and getting promoted to League One is easier, because four go up and top 7 gets you in the playoff. But the flip side is that staying up in League One is rough with four going down.
Spending money alone is never enough to get promoted. It’s obvious but you need to spend money correctly. An 800,000 pound contract is make or break. They hit gold with Paul Mullin and rode him to a trophy. But one signing like that, which does not work out, and you are struggling mid-table at best.
Getting out of the National League is huge, because there are only two teams of 24 that drop from League Two each year, and getting promoted to League One is easier, because four go up and top 7 gets you in the playoff. But the flip side is that staying up in League One is rough with four going down.
I mean, this is Wrexham's history in the English football pyramid. They barely made it to the second division once and they mostly been a 3d and 4th division team.
Reynolds is also an expert at marketing. Aviation Gin and Mint mobile sold for the amounts they did purely through marketing, and the company he owns was responsible for the ads for both from what I understand. They have been doing a great job at taking advantage of every opportunity they can to promote the team. As they rise up the ranks I think the opportunities will increase for them. It's just going to depend on hiring the right football people and finding the right players. The money will be there I think.
Not to belabor the point, but re the bolded if all else is equal (or close to it) players, managers, and football people will go for Wrexham because it may offer new and different opportunities. Think about a young-ish pro who works in football ops. Maybe a wonky advanced stat type. They maybe get featured on the show, and suddenly clubs and people who never would've heard of them otherwise get noticed. Same thing for a player or manager. Of course cream usually rises to the top re players/managers, but as a player/manager if you feel you're underappreciated, this is a cool opportunity. Not to mention that you can probably secure some sponsorship deals and you will certainly earn a bigger following if that's your game.
Right... I feel like that's what I said. League 1 with proper investment is their historic level (with some blips into league 2).I mean, this is Wrexham's history in the English football pyramid. They barely made it to the second division once and they mostly been a 3d and 4th division team.
They had no idea what their demand was for merch, they sold out of home kits in like October and never restocked, I got a baby blue in Feb, but couldn't get any for my son. I think their market is probably unquantifiable completely at the moment, and a fun project for the buyer/planners since you woudn't want to outlay too much on merch as they'll have to predict a bubble where people stop caring internationally so you can't fully stock for that bubble, but they had to miss out on a lot of merch sales this year so numbers have to be in flux.
The stadium expansion will be huge though as long as they are respectable they'll fill it with locals at worst.
47 second mark bottom right there's someone storming the pitch in a scooter - right above the 2 in fluorescent jackets. THAT is an interview I want.
Yeah. Within a few months of taking over they attracted a proven league one coach, the former Chief executive of the EFL and CEO of Leeds, the former CEO of Liverpool when they won everything there was to win, and the director of football who took Southampton from league one back to the Premier League. The latter 3 are just advisors, but the team is definitely pulling above their weight. I know there was a former Wrexham playing connection, but I don't think Ben Foster comes out of retirement to play for them if not for their high media profile. But in the future they can still commit to the wrong player from a higher league. One who doesn't turn out to be Paul Mullins. They are going to have to turn over a lot of their roster if they want to gain more promotions, and there is a lot of opportunity to get a few signing wrong and really hurt their budget. When you work in volume, those things happen.
Last edited:
Feels like the one "miss" so far was underestimating the demand for merch. Heard they had an order for 25k game jerseys, bumped it to 35k and, well, try to fine one. Should be interesting to see how much Wrexham gear we will see in the States in the coming months. They will be ready this time.
Paul Mullin is a legit League One striker (he won the League Two Golden Boot with Cambridge and got them promoted to League One before signing with Wrexham). Yes, he reportedly was the highest paid player in the National League, but dropping down and signing with Wrexham turned out to be a genius move for him. He has a book coming out, is far more famous that anyone currently playing in League One/Two, and likely will have many more media or coaching opportunities once he retires than he ever would have had if he was playing elsewhere. He also got a chance to return close to home to raise his family (he was born in Merseyside) and can likely make a decent living after his career simply being Paul Mullin if he wants to remain in the area.
The show had an episode that featured a woman on a scooter who runs the program for the club that helps those who have accessibility issues make it to the matches. So not a big surprise.
I have mixed feelings about all this. But in the end, a win is a win. Having followed Exeter since around 1987, getting into league 2 is a big deal. Not sure they will make it up to League 1 so fast, but we will see.
excellent
(I hope my post didn't come across as mocking, it's genuinely something that caught my eye and intrigued me the story and think it would be interesting)
They'll have a team in the 7v7 soccer tournament in Cary in early June at WakeMed. Wolves and Dortmund also sending representation.
Current Team List
Can't accuse Reynolds of resting on his laurels. He's out there hustling.
View: https://twitter.com/VancityReynolds/status/1651142846206955521
View: https://twitter.com/VancityReynolds/status/1651142846206955521
Notts County were down 0-2 in the playoff sem-final, but got two with the second coming very late in stoppage time. They won it by scoring at the very end of added time to avoid having to go to penalties. They move on to Wembley.
Awesome. Really rooting for them to make the jump alongside Wrexham, it would be criminal not to go up after securing 107 points.
Only clicked on it because Ben Foster, so I figure it should go here:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqA8vwQZUnc
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqA8vwQZUnc
National League social media was going insane all morning when they were down.
Seriously though....it wouldn't be. People really don't understand that the playoffs, in a sense, have ALWAYS existed. Before the playoffs were launched, more often than not the difference between the last promotion spot and the runner-up, or the last relegation spot and runner up, was usually down to a handful of points at most. And that comes down to a key player getting injured for a few weeks, a crappy call in an away match at Crewe, your goalkeeper slipping at a crucial moment, all kinds of random events. The playoffs provide structured randomness, but the randomness, the "we got screwed" feeling.....it's been there for as long as relegation and promotion has existed. And if you have lived through it at either end of the table, it's brutal.
Staying down despite being 23 points (more than seven wins) clear in one of the very few leagues in Europe that only promotes two would have been cruel in an almost historical way.
I think you need to experience supporting a side at the other end of the table before you can understand that that wouldn't even be in the top 10% of cruel in an average 5 year period.
This seems to be the closest thing to a non-league thread that we have, so I will put this here. The biggest bummer of non-league is the end of the season folding of clubs. It seems like every few years someone gets tagged, and this year it is Southend. And behind the sad stories about fans losing their club are the arguably sadder stories of players, staff and others not getting paid for months on end but still going out there (sidebar: Southend wasn't too bad, all seem to have been paid eventually, but some waited months for wages, which must have sucked).
As a fan and former season-ticket holder of a club that went under (and is now back), I can tell you that it sucks. You feel really bad for yourself, and that this cool thing that you love doing will be gone, but then you realize that the guy who you see taking care of the turf every day at the club, the lady who is constantly running events etc. for the "VIPs" and corporate guests, the guy who has been doing the program for the last decade all have it way, way, way worse than you. Some of these clubs probably should not have existed for the last 30 years, but they did. And people cared about them, and some other people spent a lot of time working for low wages that they would sometimes not even receive. Blergh.
As a fan and former season-ticket holder of a club that went under (and is now back), I can tell you that it sucks. You feel really bad for yourself, and that this cool thing that you love doing will be gone, but then you realize that the guy who you see taking care of the turf every day at the club, the lady who is constantly running events etc. for the "VIPs" and corporate guests, the guy who has been doing the program for the last decade all have it way, way, way worse than you. Some of these clubs probably should not have existed for the last 30 years, but they did. And people cared about them, and some other people spent a lot of time working for low wages that they would sometimes not even receive. Blergh.
Can we get this guy a SOSH membership?
The 20th anniversary of 2004 is coming up and since then I've gotten married to a wonderful woman and have two great kids. I can't honestly rank all of those in an order truthful enough to stay married and out of a crooked retirement home seen on 60 minutes.
The 20th anniversary of 2004 is coming up and since then I've gotten married to a wonderful woman and have two great kids. I can't honestly rank all of those in an order truthful enough to stay married and out of a crooked retirement home seen on 60 minutes.
Hot take 1: There is nothing more overrated than being a male in the presence of the delivery of your child.
Hot take 2: F**k that guy who decided he didn't want to be sitting in a lounge reading the paper and smoking cigars while childbirth was occuring.
Hot take 3: There are about 10 sports events and another 10 life events that aren't just better than "being at the birth of my kid" but blow those times out of the water.
There, I said it.
So you'll be leading the welcoming committee for Kevin.
And I'm on Team Yam for all these. I felt useless during both of my wife's c-sections but wouldn't have missed them....unless maybe there was a game 7 at Fenway.
All this is 100% correct.
“I fell in love with my baby the moment I saw her” Fell in love with what? There’s really not that much to a newborn. They have no idea what you are. They are upset a lot. I was mostly afraid I was going to drop it or sit on it or something. It’s way easier to fall in love with a
puppy.
And then for months it’s a ton of work for very little short-term payoff. But eventually definitely worth it and would recommend
I fell in love with my daughter at about 7 months old. That was a good day. So I’d known her for several months and then all of a sudden it was like BOOM….I really love her! The development of my love for Malcom Butler followed a similar trajectory.
“I fell in love with my baby the moment I saw her” Fell in love with what? There’s really not that much to a newborn. They have no idea what you are. They are upset a lot. I was mostly afraid I was going to drop it or sit on it or something. It’s way easier to fall in love with a
puppy.
And then for months it’s a ton of work for very little short-term payoff. But eventually definitely worth it and would recommend
I fell in love with my daughter at about 7 months old. That was a good day. So I’d known her for several months and then all of a sudden it was like BOOM….I really love her! The development of my love for Malcom Butler followed a similar trajectory.
Every word of this is bang on. Whenever I encounter those dads who are like "It was the most awe inspiring moment of my life. It changed me." I smile and say "that's fantastic, so wonderful" and think "Have you never watched playoff hockey?????"
That's great. The ending with the kid asking mommy to clean it up was a nice touch too. I always feel terrible when I'm trying to do some parenting task and one of the lil Zosos insists that mommy does it. Mrs. Zoso never catches a break!
Biased, but as a Northampton fan... losing promotion on goal difference on the last day despite starting ahead and winning 3-1 (because the other team was playing the bottom side who'd given up and were playing half their youth team, so lost 7-0) seems crueler than any playoff loss.
Liverpool twice lost the actual title with points totals that were amongst the five most dominant in division history.
Yeah. There are so many variations of these. Sport pain takes so many wacky forms.
