Would a lousy 2019 tarnish 2018 at all for you?

tims4wins

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Jul 15, 2005
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This is kind of a spin-off of the “trade a title for last place thread”. All of last year we had a thread called “is this the best Red Sox team ever?” that eventually morphed into “this IS the best Red Sox team ever”. I said after the season that I thought it was the best season in Red Sox history but not necessarily the best team.

If the same cast of characters has a lousy 2019, does that change your opinion of 2018? When 2014 and 2015 happened, we (rightfully IMO) began to look at 2013 as somewhat of a fluke occurrence. The 2018 team had a historic season, and as has been pointed out elsewhere, romped through the playoffs despite their ace and closer barely contributing.

If the 2019 team fails to turn it around in a meaningful way, it will reinforce my opinion that while it was the greatest season in Sox history, it was not necessarily the best team. It doesn’t take away the magic of last year, but to me it would change my historical perspective on the team.

Maybe this is a bunch of garbage and everyone will disagree with me but I thought it might be worthy of its own discussion.

And yes, I realize between this thread, the hangover thread, the trade off thread, and the Pedroia thread, there is a lot of negativity in Sox Nation right now.
 

JohntheBaptist

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Jul 13, 2005
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No, of course not.

2013 was not a "fluke" either. They had the best record, run differential, and OPS in the AL, as well as the most team WAR. Their ERA+ was 4th in the league. The only MLB team with a better Pythag, the Cardinals, they beat in six games in the WS.
 
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snowmanny

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Dec 8, 2005
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Hahaha. No. Also the Patriots won. I'm in a pretty good mood all year so far.

Ed: also I think they'll end up pretty good
 

Valek123

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Jul 13, 2005
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Not a bit. Last year was magic but that team was stacked and all performed well. If the result of having so much amazing happen in one season ending with a WS victory is a horrific regression so be it. Once upon a time it had been almost 9 decades since the Sox won anything, my how the times have changed.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Mar 11, 2007
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Honestly... yeah... not completely... but a little bit. It'd be different from the 2013 team which I never thought really had a chance from the start and even all through the playoffs. They were just an odd collection that put it all together... the fact that they fell apart the following year was somewhat expected. There's no reason why they're playing like shit this year other than mental.
There's something about this team right now that is really frustrating and it is tarnishing 2018. It's the same team... so my feelings on this team pretty much goes all the way back to when they acquired Sale and Kimbrell. Those two were the pieces that made "this team"... This Team. Added JDM then Eovaldi... subtracted Kimbrell. This team has been since 2017 season and whilst that season's version got bumped out it was still a good season. If they continue to fall apart it will hurt how I feel about This Team's 2018... .if they start to play competitively again and get at least close to a playoff spot, I'd be disappointed but the "tarnish" of the 2018 season will be pretty less than it feels right now.

Edit-I'm 47. I remember the '86 team clearly and loved that club... which was pretty much the same club in '87 which played garbage and it did make my feelings change about the '86 season.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Oct 23, 2001
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What is it with all the existential angst about a crappy three weeks of baseball? Can the team actually lose 100 games before we commit ritual suicide over the 2019 suckitude?
 

Mystic Merlin

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Sep 21, 2007
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What kind of thread is this?

No succeeding season will ever ruin a championship. They won 108 games and cleaned out the other three best teams in baseball without reaching an elimination game.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Jul 19, 2005
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Totally.

Indeed, the 86 years following the 1918 World Series have nothing on what’s happened since 2018. See you all in 2104?
 

JohntheBaptist

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Misery is, for many (most?), still an integral part of being a Red Sox fan. Even contemplating this is fucking bizarre. Last year could almost literally not have been more perfect and you're entertaining the idea of a bad season after it tainting that?

Seriously, pretend you're a Pirates fan and you hear someone talking like that.
 

rhswanzey

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Oct 17, 2017
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Dumb thread. Flags fly forever. My feeling coming into the year was they'd win, like, 94 games, and people would find a way to be mad about it, because this is one of the only towns where I guess you've got to be the best team in franchise history every year, or blow it up.

They're still going to win 90-something and at least grab a WC - they just got a big block of the losing out of the way. And we'll be disappointed, because Boston.

In the Sky Is Falling threads, I think people should make a qualifying statement before punting on this group less than 20 games in: "I believe two of these three statements are indicative of the true talent level of this team: a bottom 10 defense, a bottom 10 offense, and/or a worst in MLB rotation." Even pessimists should have a very hard time standing behind two of those claims over six months. Rough stretches happen and they'll play better. Then we can start the "Vazquez Appreciation Thread", like normal.
 

uncannymanny

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Jan 12, 2007
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Maybe I can get walked through this thought process. Is it like they lose 3 in a row the second week of April and you’re like “you know, last season when they were the best team in franchise history wasn’t all that great.” It doesn’t even fucking make sense.

This thread is more embarrassing than the team’s play thus far.
 

brandonchristensen

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Feb 4, 2012
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No.

The only thing is that it makes 2019 that much more confusing. Like, what we are seeing shouldn’t be happening. Even regression, which I think was expected, wouldn’t be this.
 

Wallball Tingle

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Jul 16, 2005
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Jesus God, no. They won 108 and tore up the postseason, beating a real juggernaut in the Astros. It was fucking great and it is fucking great.
 

brs3

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May 20, 2008
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It's annoying to watch this team play poorly, because I enjoy watching baseball every night...but I sleep pretty well. I have since 2004. 2018 was like watching season one of Heroes. 2019 so far is like watching the rest of Heroes. I'm hopeful they'll turn it around..and if they don't, it doesn't take away from the greatest season/team I ever watched in my life.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Only if it turned out that the reason for the regression is that either every player on the 2018 team was using PEDs and they aren't doing so anymore, or that they had been taken over by bodysnatchers and it was actually Jason Giambi, Alex Rodriguez, Munson, O'Neill, Bucky Dent, and Lou Piniella wearing Red Sox uniforms last year. And Cora was really Billy Martin and Steinbrenner was the owner
 

syoo8

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Jun 2, 2007
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I am still surprised that there is baseball already. Game 5 of the 2018 WS seemed like only a couple of weeks ago.
 

nvalvo

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Jul 16, 2005
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My view of this is that I have been seeing this core come together since 2012, when Bradley and Bogaerts were raking and Matt Barnes had one of the most dominant A ball stints ever (2012 Greenville line: 5 GS for 26.2 IP, 2-0, 0.34 ERA, 42 K against 4 BB, 1 earned run, 12 hits) and it was beginning to look like the 2011 draft class might have been a special one. Betts and Swihart showed up next. Then Benintendi and Devers. Moncada and Kopech.

Did I think Henry Owens or Matt Barnes or Anderson Espinoza was going to be the ace of the 2018 World Series Champion Boston Red Sox? Yes, probably.

I've never really believed it was going to be possible to hold this core together for long because the failure of those guys led to a mostly FA starting rotation: I've made that argument many times elsewhere on this board. But I believed from the darkest depths of the 2011-2012 seasons that we were going to have a championship window between 2017-2019, and look what happened: we won a title during that window. It's basically the most satisfying thing that can happen in sports fandom, IMO, to watch a championship core come together over half a decade and succeed.

I'd love to take another run this year, if we can get back moving in the right direction. But if we can't, we can't, and we'll have to trade a bunch of expiring contracts at the deadline or in the offseason — Porcello, Moreland and Pearce, JBJ, maybe JDM, Betts if he won't resign — and build back up from the farm. It happens.
 

m0ckduck

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Jul 20, 2005
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My first reaction is, “Hell, no!“ along with nearly every poster here. But, as a thought exercise, I’m thinking about what sequence of events would or could tarnish my memories of 2018. The best I could come up with:

- PED scandal retroactive to 2018, as mentioned above
- Intense acrimony. Like, Betts revealing that he hates Bradley and Benintendi and was doing whole outfield dance thing through gritted teeth, and will never resign.
- Bobby Valentine being re-hired mid season