Worst Coach Stories

[BigJimEd]

Has your son asked him about it? I know it is very tough at that age but if your son can handle it that is the best way.


And that coach seems like an ass. 11-1 is the perfect time to put someone in. And in no shape or form should winning take a priority over development at 10 years old.

That whole league needs to look at their priorities if they are waiting until the last game for that.


Edit: and the worst coaches aren't necessarily the ones doing it to give their kids an advantage but the ones doing it for their own ego.

 

[doc]

While this is true in some cases, holy crap I complete disagree with your premise that most guys do that.

We had this old guy coaching in our town Cal Ripkin League for years, he passed away about a years ago and this fall the FBI was at his house digging up the yard and basement looking for bodies. They didn't find any human bodies but they did find a lot of weird stuff liked dressed up manikins.

 

[Heinie Wagner]

I was an assistant with him in the lower levels and he definitely place winnings above development moreso than any coach I've seen.

I'm sorry for your kid to have a coach like this. Lower levels, meaning 9 year olds and younger? It's a shame if they even keep score at those levels. Baseball at those ages has nothing to do with winning and losing.

 

[moondog80]

I'm sorry for your kid to have a coach like this. Lower levels, meaning 9 year olds and younger? It's a shame if they even keep score at those levels. Baseball at those ages has nothing to do with winning and losing.

Yes, 9 and younger. When I started this thread last year, this guy was the inspiration.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/stealing-agressive-baserunning-in-little-league.15256/#post-2250293

 

[LeftyTG]

I'm sorry for your kid to have a coach like this. Lower levels, meaning 9 year olds and younger? It's a shame if they even keep score at those levels. Baseball at those ages has nothing to do with winning and losing.

I wish more people saw it this way. This was my first year coaching at the coach pitch level (7-8 year olds). I had a couple of 8 year olds who were pretty advanced, and the rest of the team was mostly just out of tee ball and had very rudimentary skills. I ran my team such that everyone got to play all the different positions and my practices had an emphasis on basic skills (batting stance orientation, making contact, throwing, trying not to be afraid of the ball when it is thrown to you, etc) and lots of reps (splitting the team into smaller groups and rotating stations) with an emphasis on encouraging the good and taking time to correct mistake.

I also wanted them to get used to "baseball" plays. Field a grounder, throw to first - even if I knew the chances of the throw being on target and/or the first baseman being able to catch an on target throw were low. I wanted them to learn "baseball" baserunning. I had no problem taking extra bases, but refused to let my team just run free hoping to draw errant throws. We'd play teams that specifically coached their kids to throw their arms up in the air as soon as a ball is fielded, in an effort to limit mistakes and runners getting multiple bases. The kids wouldn't even try to throw a runner out. We'd play teams where the runners just wouldn't stop circling the bases, knowing the chances of getting thrown out were low.

I made my peace with the fact that I was making a long term investment in my kids rather than chasing runs and wins. I knew we'd probably "lose" a lot of games, and we did (only one win the whole season, with one game left). The hard part is that my parents didn't really get it. Some did and were appreciative, but there was a lot of dissatisfaction and complaining about me in the stands with a vocal minority (my wife had to sit through a lot). It has been such an aggravating experience that I don't think I'm ever going to coach again.

 

[moondog80]

Yeah, I'm managing my other son's 7-8 coach pitch team now, and we played a guy last week who kept on having his kids take extra bases. I'm OK with it if the kid hits a bomb and you want to reward him with a double, but if it's your standard ground ball that goes through the infield, keep the kid at first. If nothing else, it keeps open the possibility of a force out at second, which is one of the few plays for an out that most kids that age will have a realistic shot at making.

 

[LoweTek]

So I'll weigh in here since I just concluded coaching a 9-10 Cal Ripken team. First place finish, lost in the semi-final game of the playoffs. Yep playoffs for 9-10 year olds. They had playoffs for my 7-8 year old team last Spring as well.

Firstly, I tend to agree with Heine regarding the guys who get involved in coaching kids or on the league boards. The majority make no bones about the fact they are there to take care of their kids and their kids' friends. There are some exceptions but very few. The league president had his youngest kid age out of the league 2-3 years ago but every other board member has kids in the program. They are for the most part nice enough guys, but it's understood why they are there.

I have coached for the past 12 years every age level in the league except T-Ball. I have never had a kid in the program. I'm one of the guys doing it purely for the love and preservation of the game. I have known of only one other guy who coached without a kid and he lasted only one season.

As far as competitive games go, I'm afraid it's what the parents want. I also think baseball is a unique opportunity to teach a kid the dynamics of success and failure and the cause and effect of same while the stakes are still low. There really is no where to hide on a baseball field. If anything the sooner they learn some of these lessons the better. They will be competing all their lives, one way or another.

Now, my compromise is I play the kids at the positions they say they want to play for the first half of the season. I always poll the kids' parents at the beginning of the year and get their first, second and third choice of position. After the halfway point, I counsel them suggesting I do not want to place them in a position on the field where they will not be successful and they should expect to play the positions their skill sets make them best suited for. This is oftentimes as basic as a safety issue. Lack of fielding skill or fear of the baseball can endanger a kid playing a vulnerable position.

Must play rules force me to sit one or two kids for the first two innings. In the first half of the season this was done on a rotating basis. Every kid, including the stars, took their turn sitting.

If all 11 show up for a game, I also have to sit two kids every inning. Same proposition, this rotated for the first half and was more based on merit in the second half.

As far as the pitching question, I give kids a shot if they demonstrate in practice they are able to throw strikes at least half the time. I encourage kids with stronger arms to try pitching. However, I always post a game plan on the fence. It shows where each kid is slated to play each inning. This includes pitchers.

I always counsel the kids penciled in as pitchers the plan could and most likely will, change. This could be due to pitch count limits being reached, effectiveness vs. ineffectiveness, the game score, etc. I have had kids penciled in for their pitching debuts and had to disappoint them. They all eventually got a shot though.

As for putting his kid into an 11-1 game, very bad optics. I would never consider it unless for some reason I was out of other options. However, in my experience a bad pitching outing, e.g. walks everybody to the point he has to be removed, does more damage to a kid than having him wait for another opportunity. I hate, hate, hate having to remove pitchers in the middle of an inning. I want the pitchers to be in a reasonable position to succeed pitching or at any position for that matter. If they don't, it's partly on me.

If your son wants to pitch, practice with him. YouTube has a trove of free pitching mechanics videos. If you're not enough of a player to help him, have him practice with a friend or get him some pitching lessons. If he can consistently throw strikes, he'll pitch. Don't look at it as a right but as an opportunity to be earned.

 

[moondog80]

Thanks LoweTek...I've been throwing with him a few times a week, it's really all we can do. He hasn't yet had a chance to prove himself in practice because...the team doesn't practice. We have a field reserved every Sunday, but that's AAU day so the coaches throughout the league all blow it off. We've practiced once all year, and that was for an hour that was just BP (the practice slot is two hours long). I'm pretty sure the guy hasn't seen my kid throw one pitch this year, in any setting.

It's quite possible he just thinks the kid isn't good enough, which is fine. But then don't pencil him in, be all "hey bud, I hope you're excited to pitch today" and then pull the rug out from under him and give your own kid the glory in an 11-1 game, and offer him no explanation.

 

[BroodsSexton]

It's quite possible he just thinks the kid isn't good enough, which is fine. But then don't pencil him in, be all "hey bud, I hope you're excited to pitch today" and then pull the rug out from under him and give your own kid the glory in an 11-1 game, and offer him no explanation.

This is a huge pet peeve. You basically described my son, and the experience he had with a coach when he was a bit younger. We took it as an opportunity to talk about the role of a manager, and the nature of power, and to teach him the lesson that sometimes authority figures use their power in unfair ways, and he should be on the lookout for that and understand when someone is abusing their power.

We encouraged him to talk to the coach about his concerns in an appropriate way (i.e. not during the game, away from the team after practice) and the coach just lied his face off to him again. By that point, though, he saw what was going on and understood it a bit better. I refused to be the parent fighting his battles for him--it's baseball, and this is a low stakes way of experiencing the world.

He stuck with it, had a great time with his teammates (the whole thing probably bothered me more than him), and still plays. A couple years later he is getting pitching opportunities. He isn't the hardest thrower, or the coach's son, but he throws strikes. At some point the manager will need someone to put the ball in the strike zone.

 

[Heinie Wagner]

I have coached for the past 12 years every age level in the league except T-Ball. I have never had a kid in the program. I'm one of the guys doing it purely for the love and preservation of the game.

You are awesome! I salute you. Youth sports needs more guys like you.

 

[Heinie Wagner]

If your son wants to pitch, practice with him.

So true, so true. Plus, having a catch with your son is one of the greatest, most memorable things you can do as a father. Be patient, give him 3-4 positives for every correction and have fun. It won't last forever.

My father's day present a few years ago was to go to Home Depot, buy supplies and build a wooden pitchers mound in our backyard. It gets a lot of use.

 

[troparra]

Anyone have advice for talking to coaches about a kids' playing time? My son is a 6th grader on a 5th/6th grade lacrosse team, and I really don't think the coaches realize how little my son plays. After almost every game now, the coaches send an email, "Because the team played so hard last night, practice on Tuesday is cancelled!".
So my son ends up playing 7 minutes of a game (running time) and then practice is cancelled. Considering in a lacrosse game you may not ever touch the ball, he may has well jog down to the 7-Eleven on the corner three times a week for all the lacrosse he's learning.


edit: clarity

 

[Hendu for Kutch]

Honestly, that just sounds like a shitty coach who doesn't want to put the time in. I could be wrong, of course, but practice is just as if not more important than games at the elementary school level, IMO. To be regularly cancelling them is pretty poor form and indicates to me that it's not about teaching the kids and helping them improve with that coach.

One thing you can do is ask the coach if he's still willing to have the practice for any kids that would like to get some extra work in. If he says no, I'd just email the rest of the team and see if any of them want to practice with your son.

 

[troparra]

It's odd because my son had the same coaches last year and it was lacrosse, lacrosse, lacrosse for 2 months straight - practices, games, tournaments, etc.. I don't think we had one practice cancelled last year.

It's not a cheap club to be on, either.

 

[Doug Beerabelli]

Practice much more important than games at that age - that's just stupid to "reward" the team by taking away an opportunity to improve. Even worse that you're paying for it in a significant way, and you're not getting your money's worth, even if it's a volunteer coach - they know the expectations (being in similar situation as asst. coach for baseball travel team).

 

[moondog80]

One thing you can do is ask the coach if he's still willing to have the practice for any kids that would like to get some extra work in. If he says no, I'd just email the rest of the team and see if any of them want to practice with your son.

I think a typical coach would likely to see that as showing him (her) up.

 

[Hendu for Kutch]

I think a typical coach would likely to see that as showing him (her) up.

Asking him if he'd still be willing to hold the practice or asking anyone else if they want to practice?

If it's the former, I'm not sure how that would be the case. Asking the coach for help getting better is an insult?

If it's the latter, I'm not sure why you'd give a shit at that point. He's shown he isn't interested.

 

[troparra]

I think a typical coach would likely to see that as showing him (her) up.

Yeah, with this team I wouldn't do that. There are 4 coaches, for one, so it's not like one coach is too busy and they can't have practices. It is a multi-coach decision. And overall the team is kind of clubby. My wife and I are relatively new to the area (and the sport), so we don't want to step into something we'll regret later on.

My major issue is this. My son plays middie. On our team, and on the other teams we've played, middies play for about 3-5 minutes at a time, at which point a new line of middies enters. Middies run constantly, so they need a lot of rest.
That's fine. However, my son's team has a "man up" team and a "man down" team, which is for times when there is a penalty flag. So when a player gets sent to the penalty area, the "man up" or "man down" team enters the game. If you're not on one of those, you come out of the game.

Well, there are tons of penalties in these games, so my son enters a game, and literally 10 seconds later he'll be yanked back out because of a penalty (not his penalty, mind you). This happens all game long. So the coaches probably think they're putting him in the game a lot, but he's not staying in the game because of this man up/man down business.

The same guys have been on the man up/man down team all season. They are all the best players (including all the coaches' sons). And it's not like they are rotating to let other players get experience in those situations. It's maddening.
It makes sense to have a rotation like this, but only if your primary concern is W's and L's. I don't think that should be a primary concern in the 5th/6th grade level. Maybe on the "elite" team, where playing time is not guaranteed, but this is not an elite team.

 

[Heinie Wagner]

Anyone have advice for talking to coaches about a kids' playing time? My son is a 6th grader on a 5th/6th grade lacrosse team, and I really don't think the coaches realize how little my son plays. After almost every game now, the coaches send an email, "Because the team played so hard last night, practice on Tuesday is cancelled!"

5th/6th graders need a day or days off after a game? That's just silly. More likely, the coach wants a day off. Can you get your son on another team?

You could try telling the coach how much your son enjoys his practices and how much you see your son improving because of the practices and how disappointed both of you are when practices get canceled.

Have you asked any other parents how they feel about practices getting canceled?

 

[Freddy Linn]

Yeah, with this team I wouldn't do that. There are 4 coaches, for one, so it's not like one coach is too busy and they can't have practices. It is a multi-coach decision. And overall the team is kind of clubby. My wife and I are relatively new to the area (and the sport), so we don't want to step into something we'll regret later on.

My major issue is this. My son plays middie. On our team, and on the other teams we've played, middies play for about 3-5 minutes at a time, at which point a new line of middies enters. Middies run constantly, so they need a lot of rest.
That's fine. However, my son's team has a "man up" team and a "man down" team, which is for times when there is a penalty flag. So when a player gets sent to the penalty area, the "man up" or "man down" team enters the game. If you're not on one of those, you come out of the game.

Well, there are tons of penalties in these games, so my son enters a game, and literally 10 seconds later he'll be yanked back out because of a penalty (not his penalty, mind you). This happens all game long. So the coaches probably think they're putting him in the game a lot, but he's not staying in the game because of this man up/man down business.

The same guys have been on the man up/man down team all season. They are all the best players (including all the coaches' sons). And it's not like they are rotating to let other players get experience in those situations. It's maddening.
It makes sense to have a rotation like this, but only if your primary concern is W's and L's. I don't think that should be a primary concern in the 5th/6th grade level. Maybe on the "elite" team, where playing time is not guaranteed, but this is not an elite team.

A bunch of random thoughts...

I've been a rec lax coach for 3/4, 5/6 and 7/8 for a program that is dominant at the state level on the West Coast, and competitive nationally against East Coast prep teams. I am also somewhat involved with club/travel teams, beginning with 6th graders.

Our rec teams lose a lot of games. And yet our high school team dominates because our teams are so much deeper than our opponents. And that starts with the philosophy at the rec level.

At 5/6 rec, all players play all positions. They rotate from defense to middie to attack to bench. Many parents hate it because it results in a lot of losses. But we don't keep score or have a scoreboard.

At 5/6 rec, there is no man up/man down unit. Everyone pretty much plays the same amount.

Kids don't pick a position until the 5/6 rec season ends and they try out for the town select team to go to a few tournaments. Because we do it that way, we struggle for wins early against programs who have their kids pick positions (and try out for the select teams) in February versus May.

Once we get to 7/8, "daddy coaches" are phased out or sit third chair. Since they might have more discretion with playing time (that is the point at which effort in practice and games is recognized with more run, and kids have committed to a particular position), they don't get to dictate who is out there. We have alumni of the program as official head coaches and a cadre of parents who get it as assistants. The dads deal more with strategy and managing personalities/dealing with issues and don't have much say on who goes out there.

I battle with parents constantly about our approach. Some are pissed that we don't let them watch practices. I've had parents call me a shitty coach because we don't go undefeated and play just 14 guys. I tell them to look at the banners. Developing the bottom end of the roster pays enormous future dividends.

"Elite" travel teams are a different deal. These are usually coached by dads who are former D1 players. My son plays the same position as the coach's son, so naturally his playing time is reduced as that inferior kid gets a ton of run. As long as the practices are great and the improvement is visible, I can tolerate the situation, but the daddy coach situation is definitely tiresome. I'm willing to go to another travel team to get more run if the situation doesn't rectify itself.

Rec/town shouldn't ever be treated like elite/travel. It's a short-term mindset that may produce more wins in relatively meaningless games but ultimately forces kids out of the game.

 

[troparra]

5th/6th graders need a day or days off after a game? That's just silly. More likely, the coach wants a day off. Can you get your son on another team?

You could try telling the coach how much your son enjoys his practices and how much you see your son improving because of the practices and how disappointed both of you are when practices get canceled.

Have you asked any other parents how they feel about practices getting canceled?

That's a good suggestion to let the coaches know how much my son liked the practices.
As for another team, there are multiple options because there are some non-school based lacrosse organizations he could join. They are significantly more expensive, but it is an option.

I haven't asked other parents about cancelled practices, but there are a couple other parents who are a little miffed with the playing time issue. They have kids in the same boat as my son in that they get yanked at each penalty.

 

[troparra]

A bunch of random thoughts...

I've been a rec lax coach for 3/4, 5/6 and 7/8 for a program that is dominant at the state level on the West Coast, and competitive nationally against East Coast prep teams. I am also somewhat involved with club/travel teams, beginning with 6th graders.

Our rec teams lose a lot of games. And yet our high school team dominates because our teams are so much deeper than our opponents. And that starts with the philosophy at the rec level.

At 5/6 rec, all players play all positions. They rotate from defense to middie to attack to bench. Many parents hate it because it results in a lot of losses. But we don't keep score or have a scoreboard.

At 5/6 rec, there is no man up/man down unit. Everyone pretty much plays the same amount.

Kids don't pick a position until the 5/6 rec season ends and they try out for the town select team to go to a few tournaments. Because we do it that way, we struggle for wins early against programs who have their kids pick positions (and try out for the select teams) in February versus May.

Once we get to 7/8, "daddy coaches" are phased out or sit third chair. Since they might have more discretion with playing time (that is the point at which effort in practice and games is recognized with more run, and kids have committed to a particular position), they don't get to dictate who is out there. We have alumni of the program as official head coaches and a cadre of parents who get it as assistants. The dads deal more with strategy and managing personalities/dealing with issues and don't have much say on who goes out there.

I battle with parents constantly about our approach. Some are pissed that we don't let them watch practices. I've had parents call me a shitty coach because we don't go undefeated and play just 14 guys. I tell them to look at the banners. Developing the bottom end of the roster pays enormous future dividends.

"Elite" travel teams are a different deal. These are usually coached by dads who are former D1 players. My son plays the same position as the coach's son, so naturally his playing time is reduced as that inferior kid gets a ton of run. As long as the practices are great and the improvement is visible, I can tolerate the situation, but the daddy coach situation is definitely tiresome. I'm willing to go to another travel team to get more run if the situation doesn't rectify itself.

Rec/town shouldn't ever be treated like elite/travel. It's a short-term mindset that may produce more wins in relatively meaningless games but ultimately forces kids out of the game.

Thanks for this. I agree with your take on 5/6 rec teams. For some reason, my son was placed at middie on day one and that's where he plays no matter what. He didn't want to play middie, they just put him there. I told him to tell his coaches he'd like to try another position, but he won't because the coaches told them if any player asks to play a different position, they'll sit and not play. I told him I was pretty sure the coaches' sons were lobbying behind the scenes.

It's a sad situation because he really enjoys lacrosse and he had such a great experience last year. This year is completely different and I don't think he has developed as much as he could have. The philosophy last year was much like you described for 5/6 rec. This year, I don't know what happened but it's so much worse. But it certainly seems that, for whatever reason, they are focusing on getting the best players the most minutes so they can win a lot of games. I don't know why the same coaches would radically shift philosophy, but they clearly did.

 

[Heinie Wagner]

For some reason, my son was placed at middie on day one and that's where he plays no matter what.

If possible, find another place for your son to play, this alone is awful. Coaches telling kids if they ask to play other positions, they'll sit? Terrible, terrible stuff, don't they want kids to have fun?

 

[troparra]

Well, the lacrosse season is over. The last few weeks of the season were better, no cancelled practices, my son played a lot more. The trick that worked was during the game, my son would ask the coaches when he was going in again, and they'd then send him in soon after.
Later in the season, I heard one of the coaches telling another kid that if they are not playing enough, they should tell the coaches because sometimes they lose track of who's playing and who's not.

They still had that man up/man down team in place, and they never rotated players off their assigned positions, so it could have been better. But my son ended the season on a pretty good note and so far he's excited about next year.

 

[troparra]

My son's lacrosse team was in a tournament last weekend. It consisted of 3 games on Saturday, and on Sunday they seeded teams into a 16 team bracket for the championship round. Win and move on, lose and go home.
My son's team ended up making it to the final game.
Here is what is interesting. The team they played in the final was a team that they had beaten just a few days before (last Wednesday) by a score of 10-5. So going into the game, everybody thought they were going to win a championship.
Now this program has two teams (based on school colors - White and Purple), and one of our coaches was worried they'd switch up their roster for the championship by combining the best players from both teams.

Well, the team they played (White) crushed my son's team. It was only 6-2, but the score could have easily been 12-2 for all the slightly off shots they took and a few great saves by our goalie. And we were lucky to score 2 goals. In thinking about it, I could see no way how my son's team could have beaten that team, even though they did beat them 4 days earlier.

Do teams bring in ringers for tournaments, or switch up rosters or something? I'm trying to figure out how and why this would happen. If combining teams, who would be willing to be dumped from the original team for the better players?

 

[tonyandpals]

I wouldn't read into it too much. I've had instances (in summer league travel baseball) where we had to use 'rostered' alternates (usually younger kids) in order to field a team, and we'd get smoked. We'd play the same team a week or so later and crush them with our regulars. Not sure how the rosters work in those tournaments, but it's not uncommon to change the complexion of a team w/ just 2-3 players.

 

[leftfieldlegacy]

Do teams bring in ringers for tournaments, or switch up rosters or something? I'm trying to figure out how and why this would happen. If combining teams, who would be willing to be dumped from the original team for the better players?

I don't think it is common but, yes, it happens. In 2008 my son was 11 and he played against a team from Millburn NJ that was later disqualified from the district LL tournament for roster issues.

Last year, the league was called Millburn-Short Hills Little League, and it came under fire from the national Little League organization for putting together the rosters of its 11 and 12 year old All Start teams in a way that allowed returning players to stay together on one of them, instead of having them spread evenly between the two.

Ostensibly, Little League officials said, that gave them an edge. So the national organization disqualified one Millburn team from the district playoffs, and other Millburn teams withdrew from district play before they faced a similar fate.

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

Maybe purely anecdotal, but I have found lacrosse to be the most lax (heh heh) when it comes to roster rules/regulations. When my son played, we'd play some of the bigger towns 2-3 times a year and never see the same kids twice. Same thing in tournaments/jamborees-kids would be moving all over playing for different teams from their town in the same age group.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Do teams bring in ringers for tournaments, or switch up rosters or something? I'm trying to figure out how and why this would happen. If combining teams, who would be willing to be dumped from the original team for the better players?

Heck, we've got a town in our local rec league (8 towns, ~4200 residents/town) that's been caught doing that in most every boys sport and some girls sports (when one of their supposedly balanced teams is eliminated from playoffs, that team's better players miraculously find themselves rostered on the surviving team).

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

Maybe purely anecdotal, but I have found lacrosse to be the most lax (heh heh) when it comes to roster rules/regulations. When my son played, we'd play some of the bigger towns 2-3 times a year and never see the same kids twice. Same thing in tournaments/jamborees-kids would be moving all over playing for different teams from their town in the same age group.

That sounds so familiar to my lax experience. Due to it being a newer sport in our area, so not as popular as baseball or spring soccer, many towns/clubs have to combine grades in different ways simply to field teams. To even things out, you;d come to a gentlemen's agreement with an opposing coach about what age and quality of players you'd bring to a game....until game time, at which point you'd see that you brought a team of third graders and inexperienced fourth graders, and they brought mostly fourth graders with what looked like a few fifth graders to boot.

 

[troparra]

I wouldn't read into it too much. I've had instances (in summer league travel baseball) where we had to use 'rostered' alternates (usually younger kids) in order to field a team, and we'd get smoked. We'd play the same team a week or so later and crush them with our regulars. Not sure how the rosters work in those tournaments, but it's not uncommon to change the complexion of a team w/ just 2-3 players.

True. We actually played a different team in this same tourney that was much better than when we had played them a couple of weeks before. According to one of my son's coaches, they had 3 of their best players missing the first time around.

But in this championship game, the team we faced was SO much better than the one from earlier in the week. I guess it's possible they had a bunch of really good 6th graders missing in the first game. It just seemed fishy that they turned into clearly the best team we had faced all season.

 

[robssecondjob]

In travel soccer a couple of seasons ago we beat a team from Martha's Vineyard handily. A couple of weeks later in the first round of the playoffs we have the Vineyard again. Our home field this time. They demolished us. Turns out they roster the maximum number of players and only the top of the roster travels. Home games the bottom of the roster plays.

As a ref this season I had one team try and sneak an illegal player by me. Didn't work. Coach got suspended.

 

[Freddy Linn]

Without all the details, I'm not sure there is anything nefarious going on.

Straight rec teams don't play tournaments. Two types of teams do: "select" town teams and club/travel teams.

What I will say is that lacrosse is in this weird spot between "grow the game"/rules aren't important versus "winning is all that matters". Teams can really rationalize any decision to roster a kid. The sport hasn't matured enough to really bang on a team for being liberal with the rules. Does it happen? All the time. Doesn't matter, these events are wholly inconsequential.

My town all star team gets annihilated at these tournaments. Our tryout/club team wins them. I prefer being with the town team.

So, without more info, I'm not surprised that the result of a non-tournament game got reversed in a tournament. For what it's worth, I could flip the result of a tournament game with one player, the faceoff guy. I'd be curious if in the latter game they had a different guy at the dot.

 

[DJnVa]

And if it's anything like soccer tourneys, most allow you to guest roster a certain number (it's 5 for soccer), so sometimes a club might only be sending one team to a tourney, but they augment that with a few players from another age-appropriate squad ( ora kid on younger squad that can handle playing up).

 

[troparra]

Well, the mystery was solved today. Apparently, one of my son's coaches did some sleuthing trying to match up game photos with roster numbers, and it seems the team in the championship game was not the same as the one from the previous week. But nothing unseemly happened. The tournament simply had listed the wrong team in the bracket. So while the tourney website was updated saying the "White" team was the opponent, which is who we played the previous Wednesday, it was actually the Purple team that moved on, and that's who beat my son's team in the finals.

They were a completely different team, that's why they seemed so different!

I think I better be careful about what controversies I get sucked into with this group.

 

[tonyandpals]

They were a completely different team, that's why they seemed so different!

I laughed. Thanks for the update!

 

[Heinie Wagner]

The trick that worked was during the game, my son would ask the coaches when he was going in again, and they'd then send him in soon after.
Later in the season, I heard one of the coaches telling another kid that if they are not playing enough, they should tell the coaches because sometimes they lose track of who's playing and who's not.

Good for your son for figuring that out and making the best of it.

As for the coaches, that is truly pathetic. What is so important during a youth sports game (5/6th grade right) that you can't keep track of playing time when you have multiple coaches. Have a printed plan, get a clip board, track it, that should be someone's primary responsibility (asst coach).

I don't allow kids to ask me or the other coaches when they're going back in the game. What a terrible habit to cultivate. Imagine a whole team getting to high school with that habit, they're going to drive a coach crazy.

 

[LoweTek]

10U. I print out a position plan every game and hang it on the inside of the dugout fence in three different places. I explain to the kids it can vary due to pitching changes, etc. I tell the kids to always be ready and know where they are going each inning. It doesn't change often. It shows who is playing where for every inning. Everybody is in the batting order.

We have must play rules. Primarily, every kid must play 6 consecutive outs in the field no later than the fourth inning. So with an 11 man roster, two kids have to sit the first two innings to accomplish this. I rotate the players who have to sit the first two innings.

I rotate other bench innings fairly among all players until the position strengths and weaknesses get worked out.

I can't imagine the hassle of doing it the way you describe this coach does it.

 

[EddieYost]

With an 11 man roster no one should have to sit two innings, nevermind two in a row.

 

[LoweTek]

Do the math. Every player has to play six consecutive outs in the field no later than the 4th inning. Tell me another way other than sitting two for two consecutive innings. When I say sit, I mean not be in the field. They are all in the batting lineup.

 

[GreenMonster49]

Do the math. Every player has to play six consecutive outs in the field no later than the 4th inning. Tell me another way other than sitting two for two consecutive innings. When I say sit, I mean not be in the field. They are all in the batting lineup.

Right now, you have the following (capital letters are playing):

1: abCDEFGHIJK
2: abCDEFGHIJK
3: ABcdEFGHIJK
4: ABcdEFGHIJK

You could do something like the following, but it might not be worth it, because you have to move kids in and out of the field each inning::
1: abCDEFGHIJK
2: ABcdEFGHIJK
3: ABCDefGHIJK
4: ABCDEFghIJK

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

https://patch.com/new-jersey/fairlawn-saddlebrook/fair-lawn-soccer-coach-headbutts-opposing-coach-assaults-his-son

FAIR LAWN, NJ — A youth soccer coach was charged with two counts of assault after he head-butted an opposing coach and assaulted a 9-year-old player at a game Sept. 10, police said.

Police responded to Berdan Grove Park at 4:17 p.m. on a report of fight on the soccer field, Sgt. Brian Metzler said.

Sean Cormack, 45, of Fair Lawn, was charged with two counts of simple assault after he head-butted an opposing coach after a verbal altercation about the game, Metzler said. The opposing coach is a 52-year-old man from Midland Park, he said.

Cormack also struck the coach's 9-year-old son with his hand as the boy and other players and coaches tried to break up the fight, police said.

The boy was taken to Hackensack University Medical Center with dizziness, Metzler said. Cormack was taken to Valley Hospital with a head injury, he said.

 

[Leather]

I just started my first youth coaching gig. I am an assistant coach on a community rec sports 6U T-Ball team. My twin boys play on it, I observed last year and it was kind of dull to just sit there, so I figured what the heck.

We had a "game" on Saturday. Games are 2 innings, every kid hits, every kid scores. When the team's full lineup is done, the next team is up. Kids in the field basically spread out around the all-dirt infield; someone plays first base, but otherwise the "positioning" is simply making sure kids don't bunch up and there are no gaping holes. Typically, you get about 10 kids playing, so the infield is going to be pretty crowded, no matter what you do. Some kids closer in (a little behind the pitchers' mount), some kids farther out, take turns. Prevent the ball hogs from getting every dribbler (and they are almost all dribblers), or a situation where 5 kids think a ball is coming toward them. And they are all terrible fielders, so there's a 75% chance a ball squeeks to the kids playing further back. It's more pinball than baseball.

Or at least I thought.

On Saturday, between innings, the opposing coach, this meaty loudmouth, walks over to our us:

"You guys always play four up front?!"
"Excuse me?"
"I see you guys are playing 4 up front. I've never seen that. Is that how you do it?"

Our head coach looks at me and neither of us can really process what he's asking. And then it hits us that he's accusing us of stacking the box as a deliberate strategy to prevent his team from getting "big" hits.

Us: "Well, we uh...That's just where the kids find room to play, but if you have another suggestion..."
Him: "No. No. But maybe we'll do that, too, if that's how you are going to play it. Seems like you're embarrassing my kids. They can't get any big hits."
Us: "Well...look, really, no, we would never do that. We'd be happy to move the kids around more if you..."
Him: "Well I've never seen that strategy. But if that's how you do it, we'll do it to. That way it's fair."
Us: "Seriously, we have never..."
Him: "Nope. It's fine. I'll bring my kids up, too, then."

He huffs off.

 

[Winger 03]

That guy caught on to your 6 year old T-Ball shift!

 

[LoweTek]

I think you have to be an idiot to take 6U T-Ball that seriously. I would have told him to GTF away from me and take it up with the league.

 

[EddieYost]

I just started my first youth coaching gig. I am an assistant coach on a community rec sports 6U T-Ball team. My twin boys play on it, I observed last year and it was kind of dull to just sit there, so I figured what the heck.

We had a "game" on Saturday. Games are 2 innings, every kid hits, every kid scores. When the team's full lineup is done, the next team is up. Kids in the field basically spread out around the all-dirt infield; someone plays first base, but otherwise the "positioning" is simply making sure kids don't bunch up and there are no gaping holes. Typically, you get about 10 kids playing, so the infield is going to be pretty crowded, no matter what you do. Some kids closer in (a little behind the pitchers' mount), some kids farther out, take turns. Prevent the ball hogs from getting every dribbler (and they are almost all dribblers), or a situation where 5 kids think a ball is coming toward them. And they are all terrible fielders, so there's a 75% chance a ball squeeks to the kids playing further back. It's more pinball than baseball.

Or at least I thought.

On Saturday, between innings, the opposing coach, this meaty loudmouth, walks over to our us:

"You guys always play four up front?!"
"Excuse me?"
"I see you guys are playing 4 up front. I've never seen that. Is that how you do it?"

Our head coach looks at me and neither of us can really process what he's asking. And then it hits us that he's accusing us of stacking the box as a deliberate strategy to prevent his team from getting "big" hits.

Us: "Well, we uh...That's just where the kids find room to play, but if you have another suggestion..."
Him: "No. No. But maybe we'll do that, too, if that's how you are going to play it. Seems like you're embarrassing my kids. They can't get any big hits."
Us: "Well...look, really, no, we would never do that. We'd be happy to move the kids around more if you..."
Him: "Well I've never seen that strategy. But if that's how you do it, we'll do it to. That way it's fair."
Us: "Seriously, we have never..."
Him: "Nope. It's fine. I'll bring my kids up, too, then."

He huffs off.

When my kids did t-ball, I got sick of watching 10 kids scramble after 1 dribbler, so we broke it up. Half the kids went into the outfield and a coach tossed them popups and rolled balls to them. The other half played defense. The 2nd inning, they switched. That kept the kids engaged a bit more and prevented the 1-2 aggressive boys from gobbling up the few hits.

It was a long time ago. I don't recall asking anyone or looking for the other team to validate it. It worked for us.

 

[moondog80]

I would always try to play it "straight" at that age -- 4 in the IF and 5 in OF, and the rest on the bench -- but that was only to get the kids to learn the positions. I would sometimes see teams going to a loaded up IF, but always assumed it was just that the other coach found it easier to keep the kids engaged that way. I never cared either way, and I certainly never saw it as being done for a competitive advantage.

 

[Leather]

Yeah, what's odd is that every other team does the same thing: all kids in the infield.

Whatever. It was strange.

 

[Humphrey]

When my daughter played t ball everything was station to station. One base at a time and you got to go to that base whether an out (rare) was recorded or not. An "inning" ended when everyone got up. 3 inning games.

Remember one kid being better than everyone else and he's been a 4 year starter in high school.

 

[Cumberland Blues]

When I coached t-ball, we played a regular IF/OF alignment if for no other reason than the kids learned where the SS stands and which is LF and which is RF and shit like that which nobody should have to teach at the next level when it starts to look a little like baseball. Frankly, having multiple infielders in seems dangerous to me. Every team usually has 1 or 2 kids who actually know what they're doing - one of them hits a liner off the forehead of a kid standing halfway in on the grass and that's all sorts of trouble for the league.