World Series Game 5: It's a Best of Three

jon abbey

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The first time these two pitchers faced each other in this series (game 1) lasted 2:28.
 

johnmd20

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Before I ask you kids to stay off my lawn...

This game started at 815 (first pitch) that's what makes it almost impossible to stay up. World Series games last longer because there are more meetings, challenges, and pitching changes, so they should start closer to 7, when all baseball games start.
That's just going too far, you can't expect anyone to be able to watch a baseball game at 4pm on a Sunday. Nevermind the fact that the best parts of the game always happen at around 8:30pm west coast time or thereafter. It sucks, it's east coast living, and it will not change.

Imagine how many fans baseball could have gotten last night if kids 15 and under could watch the game?
 

BigMike

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Before I ask you kids to stay off my lawn...

This game started at 815 (first pitch) that's what makes it almost impossible to stay up. World Series games last longer because there are more meetings, challenges, and pitching changes, so they should start closer to 7, when all baseball games start.
Well yes and no, it was a late start, but it also took over 4 and a half hours to play 9 innings

I watched the football game, got ready for bed, peaked in on this thread and realized the game was going on still, and then watched the end of the amazing game.
 

timlinin8th

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Imagine how many fans baseball could have gotten last night if kids 15 and under could watch the game?
My kid is a HUGE baseball fan and wanted to watch the whole game, but, schoolnight. MLB says they want to get younger viewership but then they schedule the games at times when they can catch most of their current demographic and bow down to the NFL.

Add me in to the list of people who passed out on my couch. Woke up and my cable was out from the storm anyways so who knows what I did or didn't miss due to falling asleep.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Scheduling comes up often here given the focus of SoSH and the fact that most posters are on the East Coast. The later start is clearly an issue for many current and prospective fans however I have to believe MLB has done some work on the optimal time to maximize eyeballs.

The reality is that an early weekend start would compete with the NFL (so far fewer eyeballs)while an early weekday start competes with work and extracurriculars for the Western time zones.

In short, the scheduling isn't likely to change any time soon. If you love playoff baseball, sleep deprivation is your price of admission.
 
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Joe Sixpack

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When the division series were going on, we had a poster here complaining that games were starting at 4pm eastern when people are still at work, and so MLB was screwing things up big time.

There's just no way to please everyone across multiple time zones.

While I personally would have liked an earlier start time on Sunday, most of the games are weekdays anyway and I can't see starting a world series game with a west coast team before 5pm pacific time on a weekday.
 

timlinin8th

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The reality is that an early weekend start would compete with the NFL (so far fewer eyeballs)while an early weekday start competes with work and extracurriculars for the Western time zones.

In short, the scheduling isn't likely to change any time soon. If you love playoff baseball, sleep deprivation is your price of admission.
No doubt, I agree with everything you said, its the natural drawbacks to the way the league HAS to schedule the games. Its also why those people who use viewership numbers between the NFL and MLB to predict the demise of baseball are comparing apples to kangaroos.

I'm just bummed that I haven't lasted to see some incredible extra-inning action live.
 

Marbleheader

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That's what happens when New York is unable to watch the network the series is on because of a cable dispute. PA and some other areas too. Also, Rangers and Giants don't do much for casual fans, no east coast team playing, etc. Too many factors to suggest it was solely the start time.
 

Joe Sixpack

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That's what happens when New York is unable to watch the network the series is on because of a cable dispute. PA and some other areas too. Also, Rangers and Giants don't do much for casual fans, no east coast team playing, etc. Too many factors to suggest it was solely the start time.
But the 7pm game in particular had much lower ratings than the other games in the same series starting at 8.
 

InstaFace

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Scheduling comes up often here given the focus of SoSH and the fact that most posters are on the East Coast. The later start is clearly an issue for many current and prospective fans however I have to believe MLB has done some work on the optimal time to maximize eyeballs.

The reality is that an early weekend start would compete with the NFL (so far fewer eyeballs)while an early weekday start competes with work and extracurriculars for the Western time zones.

In short, the scheduling isn't likely to change any time soon. If you love playoff baseball, sleep deprivation is your price of admission.
There's no reason they couldn't have started weekend-night games at 7pm ET, such as last night's. NFL's late-afternoon window finishes at 7, the SNF game doesn't start till 8:30... there's no good reason not to start it at 7pm ET / 4pm PT that I can see, other than "trust MLB, this is their business", which doesn't exactly make for good conversation.

Likewise Saturdays; they used to have daytime WS games on the weekends, would it kill them to have (say) a 4pm ET start, when the big wave of CFB is done?

Weeknights, I buy the 8pm for business hours on the west coast. Complaints about that are ignoring a key consideration. But weekends just seem sub-optimal to me.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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There's no reason they couldn't have started weekend-night games at 7pm ET, such as last night's. NFL's late-afternoon window finishes at 7, the SNF game doesn't start till 8:30... there's no good reason not to start it at 7pm ET / 4pm PT that I can see, other than "trust MLB, this is their business", which doesn't exactly make for good conversation.

Likewise Saturdays; they used to have daytime WS games on the weekends, would it kill them to have (say) a 4pm ET start, when the big wave of CFB is done?

Weeknights, I buy the 8pm for business hours on the west coast. Complaints about that are ignoring a key consideration. But weekends just seem sub-optimal to me.
I know a 7pm weekend start seems obvious to you and others however MLB doesn't seem to agree. I don't claim to know their reasons and while its easy to criticize them, I suspect they have done their homework on optimal start times and it points to 8pm ET.

Now it may be faulty logic on their part but I am uncomfortable in assuming that I or some random baseball fans on an internet message board know better than MLB about how they run their business.
 

InstaFace

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I don't know Dave Dombrowski's business better than he does, nor Danny Ainge or Bill Belichick, but I still consider it fun to speculate and reason and debate on the internet. Which is why I'm here, and why conversations here don't just start and end with "They know more than we do! End of discussion!". If the actions of authority figures possessed of greater information than you cause you to yield all skepticism and defer to them, I congratulate you, because my life would be far simpler (and my career likely more successful) if I were able to do that.

I suspect that 8pm was arrived at after much negotiation with Fox and their other TV partners, based on things such as those networks' lineup of other shows, demographic tweaking, perhaps a late adjustment for the particular teams participating and their markets, and yes, a heavy dose of planning around CFB and NFL. I'd be interested to learn more from someone (@Dehere ?) who actually knows this stuff. But absent a sophisticated explanation, I find myself wanting more, because like others in this thread I was basically so tired I was delirious, and found myself unable to even focus on the game, by the time of the 9th and 10th innings. I feel like I actually kinda missed appreciating a meaningful moment in baseball history by virtue of how late everything ran.
 

Giant GT

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I don't know Dave Dombrowski's business better than he does, nor Danny Ainge or Bill Belichick, but I still consider it fun to speculate and reason and debate on the internet. Which is why I'm here, and why conversations here don't just start and end with "They know more than we do! End of discussion!". If the actions of authority figures possessed of greater information than you cause you to yield all skepticism and defer to them, I congratulate you, because my life would be far simpler (and my career likely more successful) if I were able to do that.

I suspect that 8pm was arrived at after much negotiation with Fox and their other TV partners, based on things such as those networks' lineup of other shows, demographic tweaking, perhaps a late adjustment for the particular teams participating and their markets, and yes, a heavy dose of planning around CFB and NFL. I'd be interested to learn more from someone (@Dehere ?) who actually knows this stuff. But absent a sophisticated explanation, I find myself wanting more, because like others in this thread I was basically so tired I was delirious, and found myself unable to even focus on the game, by the time of the 9th and 10th innings. I feel like I actually kinda missed appreciating a meaningful moment in baseball history by virtue of how late everything ran.
The Cowboys vs Redskins game didn't end until about 7:45pm eastern time so they couldn't start the World Series any earlier since they were both broadcast on FOX. Imagine if they ever preempted a Cowboys game in the 4th quarter for baseball and how many irate fans would call the networks? In a bit of a surprise Game 5 did earn higher ratings than the Sunday Night Football game easily winning with a 12.8 vs 9.4 for SNF.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-tv-ratings-mlb-world-series-2017-steelers-vs-lions-nbc-snf-sunday-night-football-dodgers-astros-fox-baseball/jmlati3n2qey13w2gbyihgjku

With a strong 12.8 overnight TV rating, Fox's telecast of the Astros' thrilling World Series Game 5 win over the Dodgers handily beat NBC's "Sunday Night Football" telecast of the Steelers vs. Lions, which drew a 9.4 Nielsen rating. That means Sunday night's Game 5 numbers were 36 percent higher than the NFL's SNF numbers, according to Austin Karp of SportsBusiness Dail
 

barbed wire Bob

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The Cowboys vs Redskins game didn't end until about 7:45pm eastern time so they couldn't start the World Series any earlier since they were both broadcast on FOX. Imagine if they ever preempted a Cowboys game in the 4th quarter for baseball and how many irate fans would call the networks? In a bit of a surprise Game 5 did earn higher ratings than the Sunday Night Football game easily winning with a 12.8 vs 9.4 for SNF.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-tv-ratings-mlb-world-series-2017-steelers-vs-lions-nbc-snf-sunday-night-football-dodgers-astros-fox-baseball/jmlati3n2qey13w2gbyihgjku

With a strong 12.8 overnight TV rating, Fox's telecast of the Astros' thrilling World Series Game 5 win over the Dodgers handily beat NBC's "Sunday Night Football" telecast of the Steelers vs. Lions, which drew a 9.4 Nielsen rating. That means Sunday night's Game 5 numbers were 36 percent higher than the NFL's SNF numbers, according to Austin Karp of SportsBusiness Dail
I'm glad the ratings were good. I will bet the ratings for game 6 and (hopefully) game 7 will be sky high.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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With a strong 12.8 overnight TV rating, Fox's telecast of the Astros' thrilling World Series Game 5 win over the Dodgers handily beat NBC's "Sunday Night Football" telecast of the Steelers vs. Lions, which drew a 9.4 Nielsen rating. That means Sunday night's Game 5 numbers were 36 percent higher than the NFL's SNF numbers, according to Austin Karp of SportsBusiness Dail
How much of that is that there are a lot more people in Texas and Southern California than in Detroit and western Pennsylvania? Plus kneeling, of course...
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't know Dave Dombrowski's business better than he does, nor Danny Ainge or Bill Belichick, but I still consider it fun to speculate and reason and debate on the internet. Which is why I'm here, and why conversations here don't just start and end with "They know more than we do! End of discussion!". If the actions of authority figures possessed of greater information than you cause you to yield all skepticism and defer to them, I congratulate you, because my life would be far simpler (and my career likely more successful) if I were able to do that.

I suspect that 8pm was arrived at after much negotiation with Fox and their other TV partners, based on things such as those networks' lineup of other shows, demographic tweaking, perhaps a late adjustment for the particular teams participating and their markets, and yes, a heavy dose of planning around CFB and NFL. I'd be interested to learn more from someone (@Dehere ?) who actually knows this stuff. But absent a sophisticated explanation, I find myself wanting more, because like others in this thread I was basically so tired I was delirious, and found myself unable to even focus on the game, by the time of the 9th and 10th innings. I feel like I actually kinda missed appreciating a meaningful moment in baseball history by virtue of how late everything ran.
I completely agree with you that the late hour made appreciating the game more challenging. And you (we) should by all means continue to question our institutions here - I was simply responding to your statement that "There's no reason they couldn't have started the weekend-night games at 7pm ET...".

I also agree with the larger points that the relatively late start and even later ending of what was a very entertaining game resulted in a missed opportunity of sorts for MLB to reach a broader audience.

It's too bad because baseball is filled with a bunch of great young talent right now. Furthermore, unlike football, a typical game doesn't involve players routinely putting their careers or even their long term health at risk during each play or at least not to the same degree.
 

MuzzyField

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Baseball may have a window to rethink it's avoid all things NFL mindset. I hope they don't miss it.

The ratings are great for FOX, but networks and stations really only care about the numbers during prime-time. MLB needs to care more about the entire product. How many of us are eager to invest in something we aren't likely to make it through the experience until the end.

Game 6 of the 75 series was the first time I stayed up past midnight as a kid and wasn't sick. It was a big deal as it was a school night. I'm sure Sister Mary Holy Water needed to "tap" me on the head a few times with a ruler for dozing off the next day in class.

That game started at 8:30 and went just over 4-hours for 12-innings. When Fisk hit the pole we were able to still hit the pillow an hour + earlier than last night. I went to bed and missed it, but I'm already a baseball fan and MLB doesn't need to convince me to watch 200+ games next season.

There are potential MLB customers/news fans that didn't experience last night's incredible drama, and unlike me, had no reason to seek out the highlights this morning. Short-term it's opportunity missed, long-term there is going to be an opportunity lost MLB will end up paying a significant cost for.

I can't wait for game 6, I just wish more people under the age of 30 (or should it be 40) felt the same.

The NFL doesn't want the Pats or anyone else winning a playoff game or the Super Bowl after midnight, MLB needs to adopt the same policy. There is a reason prime-time football games no longer kickoff after 9pm ET. This isn't hard to figure out.
 

McBride11

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It's worth pointing out MLB scheduled a World Series game at 7pm EDT 6-7 years ago to appease the East Coasters, and it got killed in the ratings.
They were even lower in 2012 (2 years later). Maybe no one cares about the SF Giants playing the Rangers or Tigers. (I didn't).

There isn't a good answer, 8pm EDT games end at 11+, but if you start at 7 then the west coast has 4pm first pitches, which means the Dodgers won't fill their stadium until the 8th inning.
 

MuzzyField

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67% of TV eyeballs still live in the eastern and central time zones. If the Dodgers sold the tickets, who cares if they can't get to their seats? I don't remember Giants fans having any issues.

I'm in favor of, but not holding my breath for, the two time zone solution for the US. We need more sleep!
 

JimBoSox9

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It's an archaic assumption to make that if today's kids aren't staying up for the game live, they're missing out on the things that would otherwise make them fans. They're not checking the USA Today box scores when they wake up, ya know what I mean?
 

Giant GT

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They were even lower in 2012 (2 years later). Maybe no one cares about the SF Giants playing the Rangers or Tigers. (I didn't).

There isn't a good answer, 8pm EDT games end at 11+, but if you start at 7 then the west coast has 4pm first pitches, which means the Dodgers won't fill their stadium until the 8th inning.
That's because we have better transportation to SF than they do to Dodger Stadium. You can easily take public transportation and get dropped off right in front of AT&T Park. You're pretty much driving if you want to get to Dodger stadium.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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I don't know Dave Dombrowski's business better than he does, nor Danny Ainge or Bill Belichick, but I still consider it fun to speculate and reason and debate on the internet. Which is why I'm here, and why conversations here don't just start and end with "They know more than we do! End of discussion!". If the actions of authority figures possessed of greater information than you cause you to yield all skepticism and defer to them, I congratulate you, because my life would be far simpler (and my career likely more successful) if I were able to do that.

I suspect that 8pm was arrived at after much negotiation with Fox and their other TV partners, based on things such as those networks' lineup of other shows, demographic tweaking, perhaps a late adjustment for the particular teams participating and their markets, and yes, a heavy dose of planning around CFB and NFL. I'd be interested to learn more from someone (@Dehere ?) who actually knows this stuff. But absent a sophisticated explanation, I find myself wanting more, because like others in this thread I was basically so tired I was delirious, and found myself unable to even focus on the game, by the time of the 9th and 10th innings. I feel like I actually kinda missed appreciating a meaningful moment in baseball history by virtue of how late everything ran.
I can address this with some authority -- I'm a cable network programmer, and previously worked at CBS when the network first got football back in the late 90s and helped design TV schedules to optimize viewing in local markets where we owned O-&-O's.

It's undeniable that the TV networks are a driving force in setting the schedule -- they pay millions of dollars for the right to carry the games, and if they can't monetize those telecasts adequately the license fees dry up. Network research teams collaborate tightly with league officials and build a case for how a given schedule will maximize servicing key advertising clients and grow viewership among the target demographic.

[\grumpy old man on] What gets my goat, however is how critics and pundits often wring their hands about how terrible it is that the networks have so much sway in setting the schedule, running commercials, and other profit-driven considerations all because of greed and the almighty dollar. [To be clear, I'm not accusing InstaFace of being a hand-wringer or goat-getter, but I'm on a roll here...] The fact is the networks' objective (increase ratings to increase revenue) is in sync with baseball's objective (increased ratings is French for "more people are watching" which means a broader fan base which means more revenue). High ratings doesn't only mean "greed", at its core it means "satisfying more viewers". [/grumpy old man off]

I can think of one area where networks priorities don't necessarily align with that of the leagues -- the networks also want to shape the sports schedule so as to support their core prime time schedule as much as possible. That means lining things up so key network shows won't preempt the most important prime time entertainment franchises (no World Series on Thursdays, for instance), as well as positioning games to use as lead-ins and promotional platforms for complementary network programs. That's really more of a cable thing ("The Steve Harvey Show", "Conan O'Brien") than a broadcast network thing as far as baseball is concerned, though it does come into play with the NBA when games air on ABC.
 

MuzzyField

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For the under-25 crowd baseball is grandpa's game, and I blame MLB and it's players for allowing this to get this far. Enjoy the money now, and WHAT later?

The kids aren't checking the USA Today box scores or any other box score because they have no idea how to read them.

I have to ESPN3 NCAA baseball in 2018 with a crew of students that know the difference between a baseball and a hockey puck, and not much more. I never thought I'd ever have to have a training session in baseball 101 with a bunch of sports nuts, only a couple have actually played the game as kids. Is this the exception or the new rule?
 

timlinin8th

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The kids aren't checking the USA Today box scores or any other box score because they have no idea how to read them.
I didn't know how to read a box score as a kid and yet I grew up liking baseball well enough.

The kids aren't reading box scores or absorbing the game in the same manner that Grandpa does, because they are too busy watching highlights on Youtube.
 

timlinin8th

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The kids are watching NBA highlights, and soccer.
No kids are watching soccer. They "play" it when they are young because they can have zero rules and can swarm the ball like bees. That soccer narrative has been sold since I was young and yeah nobody watches soccer.

Just curious, what area are you in? I'm sure just like all sports viewership, its regional favorites. My 8 year old son, 9 year old and 3 year old nephews, all my friends kids, all of them, profess baseball as their favorite. My 8 year old knows more about the league than I do (again, Youtube). Yes, provincial Boston baseball love in play but just based on every kid I know baseball is doing just fine even if they can't stay up late to watch the games.
 

MuzzyField

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I'm currently in the south. They watch soccer live instead of cartoons on Saturday morning (NBC, FOX, are on board) too bad whatever is left of ESPN after Mickey guts Skipper will be a shell of what you except it to be. He'd already be fired, but Iger has no clue how to fix it. Spinning it off is still on the table, should be a concern.

The soccer footprint sort of reaches UCONN and heads south and west.

Is your 8-year-old being served well by MLB? I think the game is screwing this up and needs to be more aggressive in the marketing of stars and pace of play.

Why can the NBA market the western conference to all and Mike Trout and others on the left coast in baseball are in the witness protection program? MLB needs to fix this.
 

McBride11

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67% of TV eyeballs still live in the eastern and central time zones. If the Dodgers sold the tickets, who cares if they can't get to their seats? I don't remember Giants fans having any issues.

I'm in favor of, but not holding my breath for, the two time zone solution for the US. We need more sleep!
That's because we have better transportation to SF than they do to Dodger Stadium. You can easily take public transportation and get dropped off right in front of AT&T Park. You're pretty much driving if you want to get to Dodger stadium.

LA is notorious for getting into the stands late. It may not mean much but Im sure MLB doesnt want an empty-ish stadium to open the WS game 1.
 

JimD

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Is your 8-year-old being served well by MLB? I think the game is screwing this up and needs to be more aggressive in the marketing of stars and pace of play.
MLB has a tremendous digital media and social media presence, so I'd say that yes, they are serving the younger generations of sports fans well.
 

Spacemans Bong

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The median age of baseball viewers is like 57, while the NFL's is 50. Seven years isn't nothing, but no one's ever said the NFL has a young people problem. All that means is there's a lot of old people in America (true), and that they like sports. Or that they find watching a game on television more appealing than scrolling through GIFs on Twitter.

Shit, even the MLS's average viewing age is 40. Watching stuff on TV just isn't a millennial thing, I guess.
 

Spacemans Bong

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I'm currently in the south. They watch soccer live instead of cartoons on Saturday morning (NBC, FOX, are on board) too bad whatever is left of ESPN after Mickey guts Skipper will be a shell of what you except it to be. He'd already be fired, but Iger has no clue how to fix it. Spinning it off is still on the table, should be a concern.

The soccer footprint sort of reaches UCONN and heads south and west.

Is your 8-year-old being served well by MLB? I think the game is screwing this up and needs to be more aggressive in the marketing of stars and pace of play.

Why can the NBA market the western conference to all and Mike Trout and others on the left coast in baseball are in the witness protection program? MLB needs to fix this.
Mike Trout is personally boring, plays for the 3rd most popular team in Los Angeles, doesn't like doing advertisements, plays for a team that sucks most of the time, and is personally boring.

The NBA also doesn't have the problem of half their biggest stars speaking English as a second language. Even American-born Hispanic players suffer from this, Radio Shack couldn't help put A-Rod in the brown people box with Daisy Fuentes for a campaign. He should have been an advertiser's dream (look at him on TV now) but nope.