Workman suspended for 6 games for throwing behind Longoria

[NWsoxophile]

I called Selig's office to inquire as to whether the suspension reflects that the league is, upon reviewing the incident, upholding the interpretation of the umpiring crew on-field that Price did not intentionally hit Ortiz, or if they merely used the umpires' ruling as the basis for judgement. She reviewed the press release and said she had no idea. 
 
She then took my contact info and said "hopefully" someone will get back to me. I'll let you know.

 

[Jaylach]

This whole situation opens up the chance for me to ask a question about the "unwritten rules" that I've always wondered about.
 
It's not okay for a batter to admire a homerun, according to the unwritten rules, right? Why, then, is it okay for a pitcher to admire a strike out pitch and do their stupid first pump thing?

 

[SoxLegacy]

This is complete bullshit....Also, while Price was taking the "high road" and calling out Papi for using the term war, Price used the analogy of a battle in the same response. What an utter asshat.

 

[Orange Julia]

I called MLB, too.  That was fun!

Folks should never underestimate the power of just picking up the phone and talking to someone.

 

[bankshot1]

 
I don't think that there is any disagreement that MLB is handling this about as poorly as they could.

Lets assume MLB thinks this situation through as we have, (and has taken note of bodies hit and ejected). given the Price admission to intent, why rule in this manner, and in a manner when taken it totality, appears to be an unfair implementation of rules?

 

[NomarRS05]

I can say without hesitation that David Price is my least favorite player in the league. What a whiner.

 

[joe dokes]

This whole situation opens up the chance for me to ask a question about the "unwritten rules" that I've always wondered about.
 
It's not okay for a batter to admire a homerun, according to the unwritten rules, right? Why, then, is it okay for a pitcher to admire a strike out pitch and do their stupid first pump thing?

 
The whole unwrittens is stupid.....but there they are...
 
It might depend on context. Blowout game; rookie;respected vet; ARod; big K to end a rally.  I tried playing out an alternate scenario with a veteran HP ump.  Ortiz gets hit. HE knows what its about.  Workman hits Longoria in the ass. Warnings issued.  Nothing else happens.  After the game, Ortiz still vents at Price for going back on his word of apology (allegedly).  Probably no suspensions.
 
I used to think that every NFL team needed a Dave Semenko to just charge into the end zone to dive at the knees of some guy celebrating a TD.  Then I stopped caring.

 

[NWsoxophile]

This whole situation opens up the chance for me to ask a question about the "unwritten rules" that I've always wondered about.
 
It's not okay for a batter to admire a homerun, according to the unwritten rules, right? Why, then, is it okay for a pitcher to admire a strike out pitch and do their stupid first pump thing?

What about flipping the bat all vehement? Has Price told Myers not to act bigger than the game?

 

[Average Reds]

 
I mean, it's right there in front of you. Someone just posted it. It's not higher than his shoulders. There's no way that could have hit his head. Keep calling people idiots and fools all you want if that's all you have. It doesn't change that he clearly wasn't going to hit Longoria in the head.
 
Edit: For the record, I think it's pretty obvious Workman threw behind him on purpose. I was taking umbrage with your diatribe on headhunting. It's not what happened there.

 
If that's how you feel, then why have you been arguing with me? 
 
Also, please tell me where i went on a "headhunting diatribe?" Not once did I say that Workman was trying to hit him in the head.  I stated that it was obvious that he threw the ball exactly where he wanted - behind Longoria's head -  and to claim that the ball may have slipped or that we can't infer intent is foolish.  Meanwhile, you've been jumping into it and telling me that my interpretation is wrong because you can see that he threw a breaking ball - which is 100% false.  And then only after thinking about it do you back up and edit your post to completely contradict what you had been saying to that point.
 
You really need to make sure you understand what people are saying before you criticize them.

 

[Average Reds]

Lets assume MLB thinks this situation through as we have, (and has taken note of bodies hit and ejected). given the Price admission to intent, why rule in this manner, and in a manner when taken it totality, appears to be an unfair implementation of rules?

 
The workings of MLB when it comes to suspensions are often mysterious and unfathomable.
 
I have no problem with suspending Workman.  Doing nothing to Price is both ridiculous and foolish, because it ensures that this will carry over.  Hell, we may be engaging in figurative "wars" with Price and his team when he gets traded after mid-season or even next year at this point.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

 
If that's how you feel, then why have you been arguing with me?  Because that's what I have been saying all along? 
 
Not once did I say that Workman was trying to hit him in the head.  I stated that it was obvious that he threw the ball exactly where he wanted - behind Longoria's head -  and to claim that the ball may have slipped or that we can't infer intent is foolish.
 
You really need to make sure you understand what people are saying before you criticize them.

 
Why exactly? What did Workman or the team have to gain by him getting ejected?

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

I can say without hesitation that David Price is my least favorite player in the league. What a whiner.

Wait'll you see how he looks in pinstripes.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

IShe then took my contact info and said "hopefully" someone will get back to me. I'll let you know.

I too am full of hope

</pedantic>

 

[bankshot1]

 
The workings of MLB when it comes to suspensions are often mysterious and unfathomable.
 
I have no problem with suspending Workman.  Doing nothing to Price is both ridiculous and foolish, because it ensures that this will carry over.  Hell, we may be engaging in figurative "wars" with Price and his team when he gets traded after mid-season or even next year at this point.

Agreed. I understand the Workman suspension. I do not get the free pass for Price. I can only hope Farrell manages him in the ASG, and lets him pitch 12 innings,

 

[Average Reds]

 
Why exactly? What did Workman or the team have to gain by him getting ejected?

 
I can't tell you what he was thinking, but if I had to guess he probably thought that if he threw behind the batter he was going to get the same benefit of the doubt that Price got.  If that was his angle, then he was obviously wrong.

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
Why exactly? What did Workman or the team have to gain by him getting ejected?

 
The timing was key: Workman waited until he was about to be replaced. It sure looked like Workman had no interest in throwing at Longoria, but still wanted to deliver a purpose pitch.

 

[Average Reds]

Agreed. I understand the Workman suspension. I do not get the free pass for Price. I can only hope Farrell manages him in the ASG, and lets him pitch 12 innings,

 
I did not consider the possibilities of using the ASG as leverage here.
 
I remember back in '93 when Mike Mussina was selected and the game was in Camden Yards.  Everyone assumed that Mussina would pitch, but Cito Gaston had no intention of using Mussina and told him so.  Before the 9th inning, Mussina got up and started warming on his own in an attempt to get the crowd riled up and and pressure Gaston to put him in.  The TV cameras showed Gaston shaking his head and muttering profanities in the dugout, but he got his revenge by just leaving him there to warm up.  When the game ended Mussina fired his glove to the ground and stalked off.
 
We need Farrell to start thinking like Cito Gaston about the All Star Game.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

I can only hope Farrell manages him in the ASG, and lets him pitch 12 innings,

 
That would work as revenge, but it would suck for the fans.
 
Perhaps equally good revenge, but less disruptive to the game in general, would be if Farrell warmed him up and brought him in, and then removed him after one pitch.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

Use him as a Pinch Runner.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

Use him as a Pinch Runner.

 
Of course Farrell would never take the low road and do any of these things.
 
This is one of the few situations where Bobby Valentine would be the right guy for the job.

 

[soxhop411]

Marc Topkin ‏@TBTimes_Rays  12s
#Rays Maddon on Ortiz comments: "I'd like to believe if he ... had more of an opportunity to think about it, he'd respond differently.''

 

[MakMan44]

 
Marc Topkin ‏@TBTimes_Rays  12s
#Rays Maddon on Ortiz comments: "I'd like to believe if he ... had more of an opportunity to think about it, he'd respond differently.''
 

God, I hate Maddon. 

 

[Bone Chips]

Karma is a 5 letter, misogynistic word that is no longer allowed in game threads:


MIAMI -- Rays outfielder Wil Myers paid a visit to Dr. Douglas Carlan, a noted hand specialist, on Tuesday, and the news was not good.

The reigning American League Rookie of the Year Award winner has a slight stress fracture in his right wrist that is likely to cost him a considerable part of the season. Myers will not require surgery, but he will be in a cast for five to six weeks, then be re-evaluated.

If all goes well once he is re-evaluated, Myers will begin his rehab.

Myers injured his wrist when he collided with center fielder Desmond Jennings in the bottom of the 10th inning of the Red Sox's 3-2 win over the Rays on Friday night at Fenway Park. The outfielders were trying to run down A.J. Pierzynski's game-winning triple.

 

[strek1]

This ruling is an abomination to humanity

 

[AbbyNoho]

 
If that's how you feel, then why have you been arguing with me? 
 
Also, please tell me where i went on a "headhunting diatribe?" Not once did I say that Workman was trying to hit him in the head.  I stated that it was obvious that he threw the ball exactly where he wanted - behind Longoria's head -  and to claim that the ball may have slipped or that we can't infer intent is foolish.  Meanwhile, you've been jumping into it and telling me that my interpretation is wrong because you can see that he threw a breaking ball - which is 100% false.  And then only after thinking about it do you back up and edit your post to completely contradict what you had been saying to that point.
 
You really need to make sure you understand what people are saying before you criticize them.

 
So... this was just for shits and giggles?
 
 

 
 
Throwing behind a batter's head is about the worst thing a pitcher can do - certainly worse than plunking someone in the midsection like Price did to Papi.  A ball behind the head preys on the player's natural inclination to back up when he sees the ball coming at him.  This is how a player gets beaned and this sort of thing will always provoke a suspension.  Properly so.

 

 
And the edit only added what was behind the edit line. 
 
You had posts complaining about headhunting... and now that you finally actually looked at the damn pitch you claim you never said he was headhunting. So what was the point then? Just stop.

 

[soxhop411]

Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes  1m
David Price, when asked by pool reporter Marc Topkin whether he felt he should not be suspended: "Absolutely"

 

[Revkeith]

Pardon my ignorance here, but there has to be some kind of grievance the Sox can file past just a general appeal, right? Is there any precedent for this, or any other incident where there was a beanball war but only one team had personell suspended?

 

[Back Bay]

 
Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes  1m
David Price, when asked by pool reporter Marc Topkin whether he felt he should not be suspended: "Absolutely"
 

 
Did he put in any further requests too?

 

[Laser Show]

Maddon trolling hard:
 
https://twitter.com/GordonEdes/status/473957902835671040

 

[E5 Yaz]

Maddon trolling hard:
 
https://twitter.com/GordonEdes/status/473957902835671040

 
That's not trolling. He's answering the question. What would you want your manager to say?

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

 
I can't tell you what he was thinking, but if I had to guess he probably thought that if he threw behind the batter he was going to get the same benefit of the doubt that Price got.  If that was his angle, then he was obviously wrong.

 
I honestly appreciate the non-abrasive response.
 
 

 
The timing was key: Workman waited until he was about to be replaced. It sure looked like Workman had no interest in throwing at Longoria, but still wanted to deliver a purpose pitch.

 
I don't know. Sixth inning 1 out at 89 pitches in a close game and he's going to take himself out? He was pitching pretty well.

 

[canderson]

What sucks is Ortiz might not get another shot this year to face Price, who undoubtedly is very short-lived for his tenure as a Devil Ray*. They only have three games with Tampa before July 31 and the series is the final weekend of July.

* Last place team going nowhere deserves the name they had when they were perennial basement dwellers.

 

[Toe Nash]

 
 
This has been a long-term issue for MLB -- the warning after the first HBP is somewhat unfair to the team that got hit.   I think a more experienced plate ump might have waited until the Sox get a shot at some Rays's ass and *then* give the warning.

Or if they had any intention of getting rid of intentional HBPs that exist for no reason other than to boost Price's ego, they could have tossed him after the Ortiz HBP. 
 
I know he did it the "right" way, but why does he get to retaliate at all, especially for something that happened in October? It doesn't cause permanent injury to get hit in the butt or leg, but it still hurts and if the pitcher doesn't have Price's control, it could. Why do we tolerate it at all? Because it's an unwritten rule that you can't run the bases slowly? The umps along with the whole world clearly thought it was intentional and the whole mess could have been avoided if Price were tossed, plus he'd think twice about doing so next time.
 
Of course, I think fighting in the NHL should be totally banned for similar reasons too, so what do I know. In the context of the unwritten rules, I agree with this.

 

[snowmanny]

What I like is that Ortiz called Price a "bitch" a "bad loser" who pulled "punk ass shit" and cries like "a little girl," and basically Price can't hit him because he will get suspended next time. Can Price even throw inside to Papi this year? Instead of putting Ortiz on notice or whatever, Price is sort of boxed in.

 

[Tim Salmon]

What I like is that Ortiz called Price a "bitch" a "bad loser" who pulled "punk ass shit" and cries like "a little girl," and basically Price can't hit him because he will get suspended next time. Can Price even throw inside to Papi this year? Instead of putting Ortiz on notice or whatever, Price is sort of boxed in.

 
After how it's played out so far, are you sure he doesn't just get another warning?

 

[mauidano]

Bull shit it is.  On appeal maybe three games and he wouldn't miss a start.

 

[ALiveH]

don't understand this at all.
 
workman tried to hit someone, was ejected & suspended.
 
Price tried to hit someone, in the opinion of the umpire - which is why the warning was issued.  Yet, MLB doesn't suspend Price. 
 
Regardless of execution, MLB agrees both players had the same intent.  Why are some pitchers suspended for throwing at someone and others aren't?  Shouldn't they all be or none of them be?

 

[moondog80]

don't understand this at all.
 
workman tried to hit someone, was ejected & suspended.
 
Price tried to hit someone, in the opinion of the umpire - which is why the warning was issued.  Yet, MLB doesn't suspend Price. 
 
Regardless of execution, MLB agrees both players had the same intent.  Why are some pitchers suspended for throwing at someone and others aren't?  Shouldn't they all be or none of them be?

Throwing near head > throwing at butt.

 

[Jaylach]

Throwing near head > throwing at butt.

 
You should go look at how close that fastball was to hitting Carp in the face.
 
EDIT - I'm not trying to say what Workman did was right, but we can't discount Price coming just as close to Carp's face AFTER a warning was issued.

 

[moondog80]

 
You should go look at how close that fastball was to hitting Carp in the face.

But it was also near the inside of the plate and reasonably a mistake. Though Price may deserve a demerit for going first with Ortiz., Workman's pitch, in and of itself, was the biggest offender.

 

[Jaylach]

But it was also near the inside of the plate and reasonably a mistake. Though Price may deserve a demerit for going first with Ortiz., Workman's pitch, in and of itself, was the biggest offender.

 
I don't disagree with you. However, it was around the letters on the backside, and a good 8-12 inches away so it wasn't really all that close. I half think it was on purpose, and the other half thinks maybe not (earning spot in rotation, still had gas in tank, etc). We can't just discount Price's near miss because Workman did the same thing, or because the Ortiz hit was "done right". Warnings were issued, and he threw a fastball up and in that hit Carp near the face.. that shouldn't be so easily forgivable.
 
And, as said upthread, some players will throw behind guys because they are not comfortable hitting them. So I don't think Workman was going for the head or back (if intentional), just didn't want to hit him so threw behind him as a "Hey, I could hit you if I wanted to" type thing.

 

[Bone Chips]

What sucks is Ortiz might not get another shot this year to face Price, who undoubtedly is very short-lived for his tenure as a Devil Ray*. They only have three games with Tampa before July 31 and the series is the final weekend of July.

Which got me to thinking... If Price is traded before the Red Sox can settle the grudge, does the grudge get traded along with him and follow him to the new team?

I guess the beauty of unwritten rules is that you can have your own unwritten interpretations. So let's just bean everyone.

 

[scotian1]

So Ortiz has problems with his lower body and gets hit there. Why is that doing it the right way when that area is close to where he had been having issues?

 

[Norm Siebern]

At first I did not want Price on the All Star team. Now, I hope he is picked, and Farrell brings him in to pitch an inning when he is due up to bat in the AL team's half. Then, instead of pinch hitting for him, make Price go the plate. With any luck, Price would get hit. More than likely, he stands there and takes three strikes. but he would get the message. If nothing else, it is a colossal FU to Price, Maddon, the Rays, and MLB for their part in this absurdity.

 

[Granite Sox]

I get why Workman was treated harshly (throw behind the runner post-warning), but Price was operating under the same conditions before the game even started.

It became public that MLB sent a report to the umpiring crew before the series started to be on the lookout for shenanigans. What happens with Price/Ortiz? Shenanigans. So for MLB to try and parse the Workman action as different because it was post-warning is disingenuous at best.

P.S. The next guy that says shenanigans is gonna get pistol-whipped.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

At first I did not want Price on the All Star team. Now, I hope he is picked, and Farrell brings him in to pitch an inning when he is due up to bat in the AL team's half. Then, instead of pinch hitting for him, make Price go the plate. With any luck, Price would get hit. More than likely, he stands there and takes three strikes. but he would get the message. If nothing else, it is a colossal FU to Price, Maddon, the Rays, and MLB for their part in this absurdity.

 
There's a DH in every All Star Game now.

 

[Average Reds]

 
So... this was just for shits and giggles?
 
 
 
 
And the edit only added what was behind the edit line. 
 
You had posts complaining about headhunting... and now that you finally actually looked at the damn pitch you claim you never said he was headhunting. So what was the point then? Just stop.

 
I assume that the people who post here have a modicum of knowledge and sophistication about the game of baseball.  I also assume that there is at least a minimal capacity to understand and appreciate nuance and clearly that is not the case with you.
 
There are two parts to what I said.  They are related but not identical.
 
As it relates to Workman's intent, I was consistent in saying that it was nonsense to think that the ball slipped or that the pitch he threw was some sort of an accident.  That ball ended up exactly where he wanted it to end up - behind Longoria's head.  I have no idea what he was thinking when he did this, but what he did is pretty clear.
 
The second point I made was about why I thought the suspension was justified.
 
I made the observation that to players and others around the game, the act of throwing a pitch behind a batters head crosses a pretty serious line.  Because regardless of intent, it's an incredibly dangerous thing, for the reasons I stated.  This says nothing about Workman, but it does speak to why the intentional act of throwing the ball behind a batter's head is taken so seriously within the game and how it will always bring a suspension.
 
I did not accuse Workman of being a headhunter.  But I don't accept that this was an accident.   And if you can't understand the difference I have nothing further to say to you.

 

[Average Reds]

 
I honestly appreciate the non-abrasive response.
 

 
To be clear, I still think it's absurd to suggest that Workman's pitch was the result of the rain or anything other than intent.  But I overreacted and should not have made it personal. 
 
That's my fault and I apologize.

 

[Reggie's Racquet]

Folks should never underestimate the power of just picking up the phone and talking to someone.

You've obviously never called my cable company.

 

[DanoooME]

MLB is guaranteeing that this gets dragged into the next series between these teams, multiple batters will get hit, and the benches will clear.

 
Then it will be time to add a few guys to the roster, like Thornton and Lucic.