@WojYahooNBA: Raptors and Kings are near agreement on a deal centered on Rudy Gay, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
Woj: Rudy Gay to Sacramento
- Thread starter knucklecup
- Start date
@sam_amick: Can confirm Yahoo! report that Kings and Raptors are discussing trade centered on Rudy Gay. More to come...
This looks done.
I never make bets this soon but saw it go to 5.5 and +180 and bit.
This will be interesting...
This looks done.
I never make bets this soon but saw it go to 5.5 and +180 and bit.
This will be interesting...
RT @WojYahooNBA: Rudy Gay is headed to the Kings, league sources tell Yahoo Sports. He has been pulled out of the Raptors lineup for tonight.
Donezo.
Donezo.
@WojYahooNBA: Still finalizing info who goes back to Raptors, but 3 players significantly discussed included Hayes, Vasquez and Patterson, sources say.
Sacramento will send John Salmons, Vasquez, Patterson and Hayes to the Raptors, sources tell Yahoo Sports.
RT @WojYahooNBA: Along with Rudy Gay, Quincy Acy and Aaron Gray will be traded to the Kings too, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
RT @WojYahooNBA: Sacramento will send John Salmons, Vasquez, Patterson and Hayes to the Raptors, sources tell Yahoo Sports.
RT @WojYahooNBA: Sacramento will send John Salmons, Vasquez, Patterson and Hayes to the Raptors, sources tell Yahoo Sports.
Only contract Toronto has to pay next season is Hayes at less than 6M. Great swap from the 19M they were going to owe Gay to shoot less than 40% next year. Plus they get the choice of offering Vazquez and Patterson a QO if they want.
Sacramento is hoping Gay finally "gets it" I guess.... good luck.
Sacramento is hoping Gay finally "gets it" I guess.... good luck.
@SpearsNBAYahoo: Kings plan on using Rudy Gay as a stretch power forward & see Gay & Derrick Williams as interchangeable guarding either forward, source says
I'd say there's a good chance that Gay opts out this summer. He won't get another contract of that size, but he'll probably want to lock in the additional guaranteed money.radsoxfan said:
Edit: That said, I have a feeling Toronto doesn't make this deal if they were confident Gay was opting out. So who knows.
Grin&MartyBarret said:
True, thats an option as well. In that case, the trade is pretty much a wash.
Not sure who would give Gay 10+M on the open market, though there are obviously plenty of very dumb GMs out there. I think he's better off taking his 19M next year, and then going into FA after next season (when he still would only be 28).
You think he sucks but yet think he's going to leave $19.3 million dollars on the table? That ain't happening.Blacken said:
Grin&MartyBarret said:
Right. Feels like a hedge by Toronto to make sure they don't have to pay Gay 19M next season.
Can't imagine they are really excited by any of the guys they are getting, though I guess its possible they like Vazquez or something.
Both Vasquez and 2Pat are good pickups for a team in Toronto's position. Hayes is an offensive zero but gives you valuable defensive minutes in a bench role.radsoxfan said:
This isn't a gigantic deal, but it is a really really good supplementary deal for Toronto.
Explain how freeing $6m of cap space by getting rid of players during Tanksgiving makes them incompetent. Thomas is due for a raise after next year and Thornton is an expiring. They now have some money to throw around and see if they can come up with a decent player in free agency after next year.Cellar-Door said:
Blacken said:
If the Kings are making this deal because they know Gay will opt out, and they wanted to dump Hayes and some of their other flotsam, good for them.
If the Kings are making this deal because they think Gay is a difference maker and they want to pay him big money this year and next year, then they are dumb.
I guess we will have to wait and see how the teams spin it, and what ends up happening with Gay, before we know for sure.
A bad or declining player is significantly better off getting years now even if he foregoes some money to do so. 4/$44m is a better deal for Gay any day of the week than $19m next year and that's the absolute floor he'll get. There are metrics-stupid and just-plain-stupid teams (Cleveland, when LeBron ignores them?) who'd give him 4/$60m or more.knucklecup said:
I wouldn't normally disagree but $19.3 is such a high dollar amount to decline, I think it's highly unlikely that he does so.
Monta Ellis declining $11 made sense because the gap between $11 and $9 was so minimal.
There's no difference between being free at 27 or 28, he'll get that 4 year / $44 million dollar deal after next season.
What's the point of rushing the process and losing out on $8.3 million dollars that you're owed next year?
Monta Ellis declining $11 made sense because the gap between $11 and $9 was so minimal.
There's no difference between being free at 27 or 28, he'll get that 4 year / $44 million dollar deal after next season.
What's the point of rushing the process and losing out on $8.3 million dollars that you're owed next year?
Ordinarily I'd agree that there's not a lot of difference, but Gay is putting his free agent value (with good teams, at least) in a wood chipper every night he buttresses that 38% FG%. Even the morons pay attention to that, even if they don't quite get why.
Man, I love Masai Ujiri. If the Celtics didn't have Danny, I'd want him in here.
Man, I love Masai Ujiri. If the Celtics didn't have Danny, I'd want him in here.
Rudy Gay is highly unlikely to leave 19.3M on the table just to hit FA a year earlier, he's 27 and barring a catastrophic injury he'll get a very similar deal at 28 as at 27 and the difference if there is any will be more than made up by the 19M he gets next year. They are taking on more money next year, while getting aplayer who will dominate the ball and stall the growth of their young players. That is a massive downside, that more than enough to offset the small possibility Gay leaves and they save 6M, which after they re-sign Cousins won't even leave them Max cap space.Blacken said:
Blacken said:
I agree with your disdain for Gay. But if this sentence is true, even if there are dumb GMs out there, something between 4/44 and 4/60 seems pretty damn optimistic to me.
I'm not sure your "Gay Sucks" and "Gay is going to make 4/60 as a FA" theories can co-exist very easily. NBA GMs are bad, but Gay for 4/60 bad? After how he has played the last couple years?
This is why I said "more than 4/$44m", I agree that 4/$60 is rather unlikely except for the fact that you have a number of GMs who are working to keep their jobs. Chris Grant is going to be on the hot seat (if he isn't already, with Waiters and Bennett) if LeBron doesn't come back, for example. A panic overpay for Gay is just what Cavstown would do.radsoxfan said:
Throw in something that Matt Moore mentioned on Twitter--that Gay wants to be in a major market--and I think that he'll be punching his ticket out of Sacramento as quick as he can (note that I don't think he'll end up in a major market...but I could be wrong).
EDIT: Moore said it best on Twitter just now: Basically, the deal for Sacramento is good if Rudy opts out, meh if he opts in, and terrible if they sign him to an extension. And I think an opt-out is very likely given the state of the NBA right now.
Blacken said:
Agree with that assessment, though I might change "meh" to something slightly worse than that if Gay opts in.
If Gay opts out, hard to dislike this deal for Sacramento since they didn't really give up anything useful and would end up saving money.
If they sign Gay to some sort of 4/44-4/60 contract extension, they are completely insane.
Jeff Austin is a good Agent, he'll tell Rudy to bide his time, pick up the option and try and get traded.
There is one scenario where Gay doesn't get his $19mm and does not get to free-agency. Its the one where Boogie murders him on the court after his 25th FGA before the fourth quarter has even started.
radsoxfan said:
It's to be hoped that Tronna finally undid a long-standing mistake. Rudy Gay's got game, but not winning game.
Demar Derozan can take, and make, most of Gay's gottashoots.
Also, the loonie is tumbling, so the Raptors will look to cut USD expenses wherever they can.
I watched some of last night's game in LA and it's pretty clear that Toronto is a better team without Gay. Addition by subtraction.
Remember when everyone thought that Paul Pierce wasn't any better than Rudy Gay? That may finally be true today since Pierce is injured. But it's still close.
I bet on that game, watched every second of it, and had a much different take.Brickowski said:
The Lakers were losing that game regardless. There was no way they were going to live up to the hype.
Kobe coming out to the Star Wars theme? It was a joke, Kobe's a joke, and the Lakers are a joke.
knucklecup said:
Gay is 19 games into what could end up being the worst shooting season of all time. I doubt Toronto will end up better off without him, primarily because they're going to ship off Lowry and others shortly, but just like in Memphis Toronto will likely end up more efficient just by virtue of having anybody but Gay use those 19 possessions.
Devizier said:
In 2002-03, Walker had his worst shooting season. He shot 38.8% from the field, and led the league in 3 point attempts despite only shooting 32.3%. From inside the arc, he shot 42.7%.
So far this year, Rudy Gay is shooting 38.8% from the field and 39.1% from inside the arc. Basically, the only thing keeping him from eclipsing Walker is that he's shooting 37.3% from 3. But if he does this from here on out, it's going to be very, very close to Walker's worst season. He also has taken more shots than LeBron James, which is exactly what you want a bad shooter to do.
Grin&MartyBarret said:
No doubt, Rudy Gay is terrible. He's like a throwback to the chucker era of the late-90s, early 00's.
Fun fact: According to OWS, the worst offensive single-season in modern history belongs to Mark Macon, who is probably better remembered for his college ball.
His rookie season, he played 76 games, averaging 30 MPG.
He shot 37.5% on 11.7 FGA per game, and only 11.3% from behind the arc.
He also had 2.2 assists against 2.0 turnovers, and pulled down 3.4 rebounds per game.
By OWS, he was worth -3 wins on offense, which is remarkable because you cannot win negative games in basketball. In other words, he was so bad, he broke the system.
System works perfectly well, it just means that the team would have won 3 more games if they had played all of his minutes 5 on 4 instead of playing him.Devizier said: