Wildcard Weekend Game Thread

tims4wins

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I still don't understand throwing deep on 3rd and 1 if you're not gonna go for it on 4th down. Of all the things to focus on in this game, that decision should be the one IMO.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Greg29fan said:
Caldwell doesn't go for 4th and half a yard in plus territory against a shaky defense
Shank punt
Dallas still has to drive the ball down the field and score a TD against an extremely good defense that had sacked Romo five times and Detroit had them 3rd and 7 on the TD play
Detroit gets the ball back again with two timeouts and the 2 minute warning with a chance to win against the same shaky defense again.
 
The refs botched (personally I think it should have been offsetting penalties and 3rd and 1 again) it but you are 100% correct that they didn't hand the game to Dallas or whatever the meme going around is.
Offsetting? Please. When do they ever make an OPI call like that? Or call a facemask on a receiver? Conversely, that faceguarding penalty is always called in today's NFL. Plus there is the whole issue of throwing the flag, announcing the penalty, and then reversing it. Then Dallas' drive is extended by three calls, all of them the right call, but none more blatant than the reversed call.

Honestly I fucking hate both teams but that was a disgusting display by the officials.
 

E5 Yaz

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tims4wins said:
I still don't understand throwing deep on 3rd and 1 if you're not gonna go for it on 4th down. Of all the things to focus on in this game, that decision should be the one IMO.
 
The thing is, had the third down play not been controversial, you'd be absolutely right. But it's hard to look at thew 4th and 1 now as a separate entity
 

lars10

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BigSoxFan said:
Then it should have been offsetting penalties and a replay of 3rd down instead of an incompletion.
Don't disagree...this ranks up with the first down that wasn't called a first down until the sticks moved a couple weeks ago?  I can't remember many/if any situations where a huge call doesn't get explained to the crowd like these two recent plays.  Does sort of lead to questions about transparency and fairness when this happens.
 

E5 Yaz

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The other issue that likely will get swept under the rug was the lack of a call on Dez for being on the field to argue
 

Harry Hooper

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Transparency and fairness are bedrock principles of the NFL.
 
Signed,
The Commish
 

E5 Yaz

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Trying deperately to get their stories straight
 
SeifertESPN Kevin Seifert
For those seeking info RT @davebirkett: Still waiting on the pool report from the Morelli with an explanation why the flag was picked up
 

Greg29fan

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BigSoxFan said:
Having lived in Texas for half my life, I can attest that Cowboys fans are simply incapable of admitting when they got a nice break. There's always some kind of justification that goes along with it. I mean, it's the playoffs, I hope the Pats get 10 cheap calls in their favor if it helps them win but I'd at least be honest about it.
 
You know I'm a Cowboys fan and they got a fan fucking tastic break.  
 

Ferm Sheller

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BigSoxFan said:
Having lived in Texas for half my life, I can attest that Cowboys fans are simply incapable of admitting when they got a nice break. There's always some kind of justification that goes along with it. I mean, it's the playoffs, I hope the Pats get 10 cheap calls in their favor if it helps them win but I'd at least be honest about it.
.

They're facing a week of having to defend that ridiculous call before watching their team get bounced out by GB. That's not a fun week.
 

DrewDawg

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Fred in Lynn said:
They would still announce that two penalties occurred and offset one another. The face mask was never mentioned.
 
Yeah, I get that.
 
What I'm saying is that perhaps the guy that threw the flag asked for help and another guy said "Eh, they were both doing it, I wouldn't have thrown the flag."
 

PedroKsBambino

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PayrodsFirstClutchHit said:
Detroit still had a chance to win the game. Stafford came up short on the final drive and Caldwell punts on 4th and 1.  The DPI call is too easy of an out for the Lions.
 
The idea that if there's another chance then we shouldn't talk about the call comes up every time---and if we were talking to a seven year old after a little league game, ok, I get why someone would say it (though not why they'd actually believe it).  Just as a matter of simple math, don't you see that the blown call necessarily impacts everything that comes after it (field position, score, playcalling, etc.) and thus is highly relevant even if the team gets the ball back?
 
I mean, I get the idea of joint contribution here---it is not the case that the call is the SOLE reason for the loss (or the Cowboy win).   But it is pretty clearly a major element of this game, too, not just an 'easy out'
 

E5 Yaz

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Freddy Linn said:
Marshall Faulk "is glad" that Dez wasn't penalized for going on the field without the helmet to challenge the call because "that would have been...you really would have seen something then."
 
A proper call?
 

twibnotes

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Freddy Linn said:
Marshall Faulk "is glad" that Dez wasn't penalized for going on the field without the helmet to challenge the call because "that would have been...you really would have seen something then."
The usual brilliant analysis
 

Ferm Sheller

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The non-call on Dez Bryant doesn't bother me much because it didn't affect game play. (I'm not saying it shouldn't have been called).
 

E5 Yaz

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Ferm Sheller said:
The non-call on Dez Bryant doesn't bother me much because it didn't affect game play. (I'm not saying it shouldn't have been called).
 
Ummm ... if it had been called, Detroit gets a first down
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

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You know I'm a Cowboys fan and they got a fan fucking tastic break.  
I didnt have a dog in that fight, and I saw a play where I didnt think PI should have been called. between the facemask grab by Pettigrew, and how the arm-swing looked to be just an attempt by the defender to get his own arm free and unentangled, I think no-call was the right call.

but there's no doubt that the "de-calling" was one of the shadiest things I've seen in the NFL since the days Bill Polian used to pipe crowd noise into Indy's stadium. if youre going to do that, you need a detailed, Hochuli-style explanation to the crowd and the coaches.
 

Greg29fan

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MentalDisabldLst said:
but there's no doubt that the "de-calling" was one of the shadiest things I've seen in the NFL since the days Bill Polian used to pipe crowd noise into Indy's stadium. if youre going to do that, you need a detailed, Hochuli-style explanation to the crowd and the coaches.
 
agreed on an explanation being needed, not just resuming play like it didn't happen
 

E5 Yaz

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skatz23 Sharon Katz
Via ESPN Analytics:Lions win probability if pass interference call stands: 78%Lions win probability on 4th and 1 after flag picked up: 66%
 

E5 Yaz

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Ferm Sheller said:
.

Understood. I just meant that the infraction didn't occur during gameplay.
 
So, you're okay with players or coaches coming off the sidelines to argue with officials on calls they don't like?
 

Harry Hooper

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E5 Yaz said:
 
So, you're okay with players or coaches coming off the sidelines to argue with officials on calls they don't like?
 
A la the NBA, as long as they're really good players.
 

lars10

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E5 Yaz said:
Still no explanation
Maybe they'll have a press conference where the refs all sit silent like the domestic abuse ads.
 

Mystic Merlin

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DrewDawg said:
 
And that joke was?
 
They were showing a hype video Irvin recorded for the Cowboys, and they asked him what production was like.
 
He said 'they shot it from multiple angles, what we would call multiple ''POVs'' '.  The camera briefly cut to Eisen, who was looking away trying to stifle a laugh.
 

Ferm Sheller

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E5 Yaz said:
 
So, you're okay with players or coaches coming off the sidelines to argue with officials on calls they don't like?
 
I'm not. (I implied it should have been called.)  I just meant that I see a penalty for unsportsman-like conduct like Dez pulled to be a punishment to the guilty actor and not so much as a reward to the the other team.
 
EDIT: I mean, how was Detroit negatively affected by Dez's behavior?
 

Oil Can Dan

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E5 Yaz said:
skatz23 Sharon Katz
Via ESPN Analytics:Lions win probability if pass interference call stands: 78%Lions win probability on 4th and 1 after flag picked up: 66%
Probability went to 55% after the 10 yard punt which was preceded by the five yard delay-of-game penalty. 
 
So Lions chances dropped from 78% to 55% in the span of one play.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Ferm Sheller said:
 
I'm not. (I implied it should have been called.)  I just meant that I see a penalty for unsportsman-like conduct like Dez pulled to be a punishment to the guilty actor and not so much as a reward to the the other team.
 
EDIT: I mean, how was Detroit negatively affected by Dez's behavior?
The refs changed their mind on a penalty that was a) correct and b) broadcast to the rest of the world.  You cannot see a scenario where a barking Dez Bryant in the refs face may play a role in that decision?
 

WayBackVazquez

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Mystic Merlin said:
They were showing a hype video Irvin recorded for the Cowboys, and they asked him what production was like.
 
He said 'they shot it from multiple angles, what we would call multiple ''POVs'' '.  The camera briefly cut to Eisen, who was looking away trying to stifle a laugh.
Hmm. While maybe you and Eisen have porn on the mind, that's a pretty facially innocuous statement. Doesn't even qualify as a double entendre.

EDIT: I said facially.
 

Mystic Merlin

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WayBackVazquez said:
Hmm. While maybe you and Eisen have porn on the mind, that's a pretty facially innocuous statement. Doesn't even qualify as a double entendre.
 
Good point, maybe Eisen and I share similar brains.  Not sure what to make of that.
 

lars10

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Oil Can Dan said:
The refs changed their mind on a penalty that was a) correct and b) broadcast to the rest of the world.  You cannot see a scenario where a barking Dez Bryant in the refs face may play a role in that decision?
So now we're saying that Dez intimidated the official?  Doesn't a player in a ref's face happen on almost every penalty call?
 

Ferm Sheller

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Oil Can Dan said:
The refs changed their mind on a penalty that was a) correct and b) broadcast to the rest of the world.  You cannot see a scenario where a barking Dez Bryant in the refs face may play a role in that decision?
 
Well, if he in fact influenced their decision, they wouldn't have thrown a flag on him for his antics.  
 
I doubt he influenced them, anyway.  I think they probably made the call (wrongly) to pick up the flag for PI independently of his actions, and decided not to let activity occurring outside of gameplay help decide the game.  
 

lars10

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Freddy Linn said:
 
From off the sideline?
I agree that Dez should have gotten penalized, but I think that he had zero effect on the ref's decision to pick up the flag.
 

Ferm Sheller

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lars10 said:
I agree that Dez should have gotten penalized, but I think that he had zero effect on the ref's decision to pick up the flag.
 
Of course.  These refs have players in their ears after every play of every game, year in and year out.  They are not made of jell-o.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Yes, I'm happy to say that Dez Bryant charging on the field of play to dispute the call impacted the decision.  Otherwise they'd have thrown the flat at him for being in the field of play w/o a helmet on.  Seems they were picking up what he was laying down.
 
If those refs call things correctly, it's PI to the 30 yard line and 15 yards on Dez.  1st & 10 from the 15.
 

Tony C

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Oil Can Dan said:
Yes, I'm happy to say that Dez Bryant charging on the field of play to dispute the call impacted the decision.  Otherwise they'd have thrown the flat at him for being in the field of play w/o a helmet on.  Seems they were picking up what he was laying down.
 
If those refs call things correctly, it's PI to the 30 yard line and 15 yards on Dez.  1st & 10 from the 15.
 
Yep...that's indisputable and the essential point -- not sure how or why anyone would argue differently. Noise about Dez's penalty not affecting the play is idiotic -- can say that about a ton of penalties, has absolutely zero relevance.
 

WayBackVazquez

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I think not calling a penalty on someone for arguing against a call that you didn't actually make is a pretty good exercise of refercutorial discretion.
 

Freddy Linn

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Oil Can Dan said:
 
If those refs call things correctly, it's PI to the 30 yard line and 15 yards on Dez.  1st & 10 from the 15.
 
I'm not going to agree with the first part, but if they call things half-correctly it is first down, Detroit.  Pick whichever half you want, the second one is far more blatant as per the rulebook.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Oil Can Dan said:
Yes, I'm happy to say that Dez Bryant charging on the field of play to dispute the call impacted the decision.  Otherwise they'd have thrown the flat at him for being in the field of play w/o a helmet on.  Seems they were picking up what he was laying down.
 
If those refs call things correctly, it's PI to the 30 yard line and 15 yards on Dez.  1st & 10 from the 15.
 
I was making a joke, BTW.  (Maybe it wasn't so obvious.)  My point was that his actions didn't influence them.  Players argue calls after every play.