Wild Card Weekend game thread (non-Pats)

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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A random thought which occurred to me after the end of Cowboys-49ers: if instead of sliding on his QB sneak Dak had just pivoted and chucked a long lateral slightly backwards and out-of-bounds, would that have been a legal way to stop the clock?
I can't imagine there's a rule against that. He would have had to make sure it was backwards. Not easy in the moment. But sure. It wouldn't be an illegal forward pass or anything, given that it would be technically a lateral. That's actually kind of genius, CP.
 

E5 Yaz

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A random thought which occurred to me after the end of Cowboys-49ers: if instead of sliding on his QB sneak Dak had just pivoted and chucked a long lateral slightly backwards and out-of-bounds, would that have been a legal way to stop the clock?
Yeah, they discussed this yesterday on the Dan Patrick Show and they cited the rule Merlin mentioned
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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It’s illegal to do that under two minutes remaining, you would incur a five yard penalty and, without a TO, a 10 second runoff.
Why is that a penalty? What's the rationale behind the rule? I mean, if you go to chuck it out of bounds like that, there's the possibility that (a) you throw it forward, which is a penalty, or (b) it gets "intercepted". There's huge risk involved in that play. It's a live ball. It shouldn't be illegal.

So I'm wrong in that apparently it IS a penalty, but WHY?
 

Bowhemian

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Why is that a penalty? What's the rationale behind the rule? I mean, if you go to chuck it out of bounds like that, there's the possibility that (a) you throw it forward, which is a penalty, or (b) it gets "intercepted". There's huge risk involved in that play. It's a live ball. It shouldn't be illegal.

So I'm wrong in that apparently it IS a penalty, but WHY?
So you can't take a 4th timeout?
 

scott bankheadcase

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Why is that a penalty? What's the rationale behind the rule? I mean, if you go to chuck it out of bounds like that, there's the possibility that (a) you throw it forward, which is a penalty, or (b) it gets "intercepted". There's huge risk involved in that play. It's a live ball. It shouldn't be illegal.

So I'm wrong in that apparently it IS a penalty, but WHY?
It's most likely to prevent someone who is close to the sideline from gaining an unfair advantage by just soft tossing it a half a yard back if they aren't going to make it.

If you think of it in that context and not middle/middle of the field it makes a lot more sense.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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So you can't take a 4th timeout?
I understand that you'd be doing it to stop the clock. But they allow a QB to basically throw the ball at his feet nowhere near a receiver when they spike it - moreover, they allow you to fake spike it. And if the QB goes to spike it and gets lit up as he's spiking it, 100% they'll call a roughing penalty on that. So why not allow a QB to make a risky play like this lateral out of bounds to stop the clock?

Seems like a bad rule to me. Not that my opinion means a hill of beans.
 

BigSoxFan

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People need to remember the Super Bowl last year after the Chiefs suffered injuries to their O-line in the playoffs. Then they need to consider that Brady is one of the least mobile QBs in the game.

Given that they haven't been ruled out, it's damn near 100% certain that Wirfs/Jensen are playing. However, we had a preview of what it means if their effectiveness is limited, because the Eagles got to Brady quite a bit after the first quarter.
Agreed and the issue with LA is that pressure will come from both outside and inside. Brady may not have any safe places to go. He’ll definitely be getting the ball out super quick but he’ll also likely need to score 27+ to win so he’ll have to play for some big plays and expose himself to some hits. But the same can be said for Stafford so this really could boil down to QB, as it often does come playoff time. And Bucs clearly have advantage there.
 

snowmanny

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Let's say that instead of running 17 yards and expiring the clock Dak had sprinted/slid 12 yards to the 29 and handed the ball to the ref and then successfully spiked it with one second left.

Which is better: two shots at the end zone from the 41 or one shot from the 29? (Taking into account the not insubstantial risk of an interception on attempt #1). Just trying to understand if the play call made any sense at all.
 

BigSoxFan

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Let's say that instead of running 17 yards and expiring the clock Dak had sprinted/slid 12 yards to the 29 and handed the ball to the ref and then successfully spiked it with one second left.

Which is better: two shots at the end zone from the 41 or one shot from the 29? (Taking into account the not insubstantial risk of an interception on attempt #1). Just trying to understand if the play call made any sense at all.
I don’t see how gaining 12 or so yards is worth losing a play. You’re pretty much running verticals as it is and either need an amazing WR jump ball, tipped pass, or DPI. You also run the risk of a penalty and 10 second runoff scenario, I think.

I would love to see whatever data they may have had to support this call.
 

Mystic Merlin

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The profiles of the pass and routes changes if you’re throwing from the 25 as opposed to the 40-41 yard line. Instead of a jump ball that you need considerable luck to complete, you can probably count on the QB to gun a pass into a window, like on a seam route, that’s much higher percentage.

See, eg:

View: https://youtu.be/jL9tfB1OU5I


Whether Dak could execute the same kind of throw from the 29 is hard to say, but the player/team would know that.

I also think assuming you can get two Hail Marys off is tricky because the QB needs to hold it longer and is thus more susceptible to a sack or killing the clock because of a scramble, and the ball could just as easily be picked on the first throw as it could fall incomplete because of how many hands are in the EZ on a play like that where the ball will hang in the air.
 

tims4wins

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The profiles of the pass and routes changes if you’re throwing from the 25 as opposed to the 40-41 yard line. Instead of a jump ball that you need considerable luck to complete, you can probably count on the QB to gun a pass into a window, like on a seam route, that’s much higher percentage.

See, eg:

View: https://youtu.be/jL9tfB1OU5I


Whether Dak could execute the same kind of throw from the 29 is hard to say, but the player/team would know that.

I also think assuming you can get two Hail Marys off is tricky because the QB needs to hold it longer and is thus more susceptible to a sack or killing the clock because of a scramble, and the ball could just as easily be picked on the first throw as it could fall incomplete because of how many hands are in the EZ on a play like that.
Agree with this. Another example would be the unicorns, show ponies, where’s the beef Kenbrell Thompkins play.
 

Pandemonium67

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Along similar but legal lines, when the Niners punted at the end they blew an opportunity to go with an intentional safety. Direct snap to Deebo near midfield and have him run around the end zone until they closed in. They'd still be up 4. Dallas would get better field position, but the safety and punt return would've killed 20 seconds.
 

GrandSlamPozo

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May 16, 2017
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Along similar but legal lines, when the Niners punted at the end they blew an opportunity to go with an intentional safety. Direct snap to Deebo near midfield and have him run around the end zone until they closed in. They'd still be up 4. Dallas would get better field position, but the safety and punt return would've killed 20 seconds.
That seems too risky, I assume that they don't practice a play designed to lose 60 yards very often and a lot can go wrong there compared to most intentional safety plays which occur when the team is already backed up. And even if they ran it successfully they're still doing a free kick from their own 20, and they would certainly want to play that safe and not give the Cowboys a chance to return it so they'd probably do a high kick which only gets out to around the Cowboys 35, or possibly even further up the field if they don't execute it properly. While by punting they had a really good chance of pinning the Cowboys deep and even though they screwed that up the worst case scenario was still a touchback which forced the Cowboys to drive 80 yards. And don't discredit the value of making the Cowboys need to convert the extra point to avoid overtime if they did score, their kicker did miss 6 XPs this year.