Whose Departure From the Sox Devastated You Most?

play4real

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Dec 28, 2005
9
- Pedro
- Manny
- Nomar
- Lester
- Damon
- Vaughn
- Clemens
- Boggs

Betts will be difficult as well.....
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Jul 10, 2007
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The wrong side of the bridge....
Lester was the same age when he was traded as Vaughn was when he left.
And Vaughn was coming off a season where he had 40 HRs and was just a couple points off the league lead in BA, and had 3 consecutive seasons of >= 150 OPS+
In fact, that season (1998) was his best in a Sox uniform. Highest wRC+ (151), highest WAR (6.3), 2nd-highest games played and PA. You're right, there was nothing to suggest an imminent, steep decline. Yet that's what happened. You have to give Duquette some credit for prescience there.
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

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While Vaughn's body type indicated there would be a steeper than normal decline, his career was derailed by a freakish ankle injury sustained by slipping on some dugout steps while trying to field a foul popup. Hard to say that could have been predicted.
 

Gold Dust Twin 19

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This

and this.

I was a 11/12 when both of these happened and the "business of baseball" hadn't hardened me yet. For a few years my mother and my friend's mother used to take us to opening day and as luck would have it one of those years the scheduling gods were nice enough to have a Sox/Sox matchup to welcome back Fisk who then proceeded to hit a HR as part of a White Sox win.
I was at that game, that was sad, he just didn't look right in those WS uniforms. Also, I remember the smell of weed all along the 3B line, my older brother (bad influence on me, haha) and I may have added to that smell.
 

Gold Dust Twin 19

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I was crushed when one of the Gold Dust twins was traded away.
Freddy Lynn, by far is my favorite player of any sport all-time. (Bird is a distance second)
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Time to add Mookie to the list.

A sad day. Seems like ever since we got Pedro, talent has been coming to Boston, not leaving.

I know that ignores Nomar who has been mentioned here a lot, but when when the last time we lost a player in the prime of his career over money? Mo?
 

jaytftwofive

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Jan 20, 2013
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Tony C, Fisk,Mookie, Mo Vaughn, Ellsbury. Jacoby to the Yanks...Yecch!!!!!! Worse then Damon. Nomar is my 2nd favorite Sox player of all time next to Tony C but I knew he had to go. Same with Manny.
 
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BaseballJones

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Mookie, hands down. Pedro is my all-time favorite athlete and nobody else is close, so seeing him go was rough, but he was also at the tail end of his marvelous career. And the last game he ever pitched for the Red Sox was in game 3 of the 2004 WS, throwing 7 shutout innings on just 3 hits.

Mookie is in his prime, so this is harder to take.

I get why this trade happened, and probably it's an important move for the long-term health of the club. But man it suuuuuuuuuuuucks.
 

The Rocket #21

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Jul 24, 2018
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For me, it was definitely Clemens followed by Johnny Damon and Jon Lester.

Nomar and Pedro were tough but it made sense why we did not try harder to keep them.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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This one hurts. Pedro didn't really hurt because he was pretty much cooked. Manny shot his way out and honestly it seemed like the Sox were trying to dump him forever. So the shock of the trade to the Dodgers was non existent. This one hurts though. Mookie is everything you want in the face of the franchise. Great player, plays hard, doesn't embarrass the franchise, plays the right way, and personable.

Clemens and Mo Vaughn are close second and third to this. But the initial departure of Clemens didn't hurt nearly as much as him going to the Yankees.
 

Rice14

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Apr 23, 2008
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There have been a lot of tough ones to watch walk out the door. Never thought I'd see Nomar leave, Clemens, Boggs, Pedro, Manny, now Mookie. Still, for the most part I tried to rationalize the decisions as good baseball moves. The one that I never could swallow was Jon Lester. Homegrown pitcher who had done everything right during his career with Boston. To see him leave and know that we spent that money on Castillo, Sandoval, and Hanley that offseason....I have a lot of trouble getting past that one.
 

5dice

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I am the only person in The world with a custom authentic Stan Belinda Sox jersey, so it made me sad to see him go. The 1995 season and run to the the playoffs to get destroyed by the Indians was exciting and a sidearm wannabe closer was part of it—until they acquired Rick Aguilera, thus devaluing my shirt. When Stan left the Red Sox a year later to sign with Cincinnati I was slightly devastated. Much like Mookie Betts, he was determined to test free agency despite how much I liked him as a player. He tested free agency a lot, like every year. Sad. And then he got multiple sclerosis. Even more sad.BF7C3361-0182-479F-9E15-5BCD6188B00E.jpeg
 

skip wright

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it was fisk for me i went to school with his sisters janet and june i lived 5 miles away from the fisk family in charlestown new hampshire and couldnt believe he left because of paperwork
 

YTF

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This thread makes me realize what a different place I am in life. Up thread I mentioned that without doubt it was the Fisk/Lynn/Burleson departures and it still is. I look at what's happened here with Mookie and I'm really OK with it. Not thrilled, but understanding it's the nature of the beast these days and hopeful of the young core that remains.
 

jose melendez

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I am the only person in The world with a custom authentic Stan Belinda Sox jersey, so it made me sad to see him go. The 1995 season and run to the the playoffs to get destroyed by the Indians was exciting and a sidearm wannabe closer was part of it—until they acquired Rick Aguilera, thus devaluing my shirt. When Stan left the Red Sox a year later to sign with Cincinnati I was slightly devastated. Much like Mookie Betts, he was determined to test free agency despite how much I liked him as a player. He tested free agency a lot, like every year. Sad. And then he got multiple sclerosis. Even more sad.View attachment 28381
I loved Stan Belinda, and for some reason he is the "true" #43 for me. Though obviously, it should be Eck.
 

jmm57

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Nomar for me. The only time I’ve ever walked away from the team. Luckily I was back by September....

Betts is pretty low for me, he’s a likable player but I don’t have a problem with ownership not wanting to put up $400mm.
 

section15

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Most devastating = Jon Lester. Hands down. Needless. Avoidable. Stupidity on the FA.

This one (Mookie) hurts but I understand why. Others = Earl Wilson, Reggie Smith, Nomar (understandable), Trot Nixon (also) ... Trot was classy on his last day as a Red Sox.

So was Mookie - our last game last year, running into home for a walk-off win. I had meandered from the bleachers in the 7th inning to box seats on the 1st base side - primarily to say thanks and goodbye to the ushers in that area - and got to see something great.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Tony C
Carlton Fisk
Nomah
Pedro

Although I think I understood the Garciaparra and Pedro departures .. Fisk was a total fuck up And Tony C ? He was traded after a terrific season in 1970. Little did we know he did that while being basically blind in one eye.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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I was resigned when Pedro left. We’d won, and Pedro was going to get offers beyond what his body would allow him to be worth. And most of us understood it.

I was frustrated when Nomar was traded, but saw him as a contributing factor, and we could see Theo trying to fill in gaps. There was still hope...

I was baffled when we failed to tender Fisk on time, and in the span of about 5 seconds, three of our cornerstones - Cahlton, Roostah and Freddie Lynn - were gone.

But the departure that most devastated me? Yaz’s retirement. My favorite player. The captain. He never won it all. He popped up in his last at bat (on a 3-0 too high fastball, grrr). The Sox didn’t look like they were on the cusp, so it was the end of an era and the dawning of... unclear. As a teenager, whose dreams were as yet unfulfilled, I was crushed.
 

Le Bastonois

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Jun 16, 2019
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I was baffled when we failed to tender Fisk on time, and in the span of about 5 seconds, three of our cornerstones - Cahlton, Roostah and Freddie Lynn - were gone.

But the departure that most devastated me? Yaz’s retirement. My favorite player. The captain. He never won it all. He popped up in his last at bat (on a 3-0 too high fastball, grrr). The Sox didn’t look like they were on the cusp, so it was the end of an era and the dawning of... unclear. As a teenager, whose dreams were as yet unfulfilled, I was crushed.
I did get to see all of the above players in piecemeal. Saw the Rooster and Fantastic Freddy in the Kingdome and they looked so alien in their Angel's uniform. Saw Yaz and Peskie as they were still with the Mike Torres Red Sox in Seattle. Saw Fisk in Alameda County Stadium in Oakland and he looked utterly ridiculous in his Chisox uni. From watching the games on WSBK TV-38 and seeing them in their Red Sox uniforms for hundreds upon hundreds of games, it was a real down feeling seeing them on other teams.
 

Mrmojo

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Nov 30, 2005
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As a 12 year old in 1967 I was completely seduced by the Red Sox. Even caught a ball in the bleachers from Jose Tartabull in game 161. After 67 there were a lot of disappointments. Tony C, Jim Lonborg, Dick Williams, Ken Harrelson & others leaving was painful, not to mention third place finishes. The "straw which broke the camels back" was trading Sparky Lyle. Traded for a mediocre player, to the Yankees [!] He continued to get better and it seemed like the Sox were giving up. It was hard not to think about Sparky though. I had named my dog after him...
 

Papo The Snow Tiger

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Mike Andrews was my favorite player growing up. I remember actually crying when I opened the paper one morning and saw he was traded to the White Sox for Luis Aparicio.

Man, I'm getting old too.
 

bankshot1

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It was the '80 off-season, when Hayseed & Buddy screwed up the Fisk contract and also traded Lynn and Burleson. They broke up band, man. I was pissed and said "screw it" and did not re-up my season tickets
 

The Gray Eagle

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The 7 stages of grief are said to be shock, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, testing, and acceptance.

I think the first Mookie trade falling through messed up the stages a bit. The denial stage was extended while the trade was in limbo, and so was the bargaining stage. The shock had mostly worn off before the trade was even official.

I guess I am in the testing stage now, not at acceptance just yet.
 

Manuel Aristides

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For me, nothing will ever hurt as bad as losing Manny. This is objectively more painful, but, you only get your heart broken for the first time once.
 

Shawn O'Leary

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Clemens was rough. This one stings too. And, I was a Youkilis guy (just always liked him) .. pretty sure I was in tears when he legged out that last hit (ending up on third base) and got lifted for a pinch runner.
 

LoweTek

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Mike Andrews was my favorite player growing up. I remember actually crying when I opened the paper one morning and saw he was traded to the White Sox for Luis Aparicio.

Man, I'm getting old too.
I'll never forget how cruel some fans at Fenway were to Aparicio. He was at the end of his career but he was a multiple time gold glove winner, All-Star (one of his Boston seasons he was an All-Star) and eventual HoF player. I can remember being at games at Fenway while he was there and fans screaming at him, "You suck Luis!!" You could hear it loud and clear all over the ballpark. In those days attendance averaged under 18k per game, a figure skewed high by weekend attendance. On a weeknight game you could hear the pitcher grunt and the pitch whizzing in and smacking the catcher's mitt. If you were sitting on the 1B side you could hear the popcorn guy on the 3B side. There was a lot of silence in between pitches.
 

mBiferi

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May 14, 2006
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For me, nothing will ever hurt as bad as losing Manny. This is objectively more painful, but, you only get your heart broken for the first time once.
Yup, exactly the same for me.

Manny was basically the main reason for me to start following the Red Sox... I remember being 16 and wanting to get dreadlocks just like him (I should have done it, now I'm bald and I never did it!). Can't believe it's been 12 years since that trade.

Jason Bay did perform well enough to soften the blow a little bit.
 

Manramsclan

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Mookie. Mookie Betts.
Devastated.
Understand all the reasons intellectually, but from an emotional perspective I can't believe they traded the best player in my lifetime because of money.
 

BaseballJones

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On the one hand, I won’t believe he’s gone until the season starts and he’s REALLY not here.

On the other hand, I’m starting to get excited about the prospect of a relaunch.
 

Shaky Walton

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Yup, Mookie takes the cake for me.

I've never been in a funk this long about a Sox player leaving.

Perhaps oddly, part of my malaise is tied to the very real, at least in my mind, possibility that Tom Brady is next to leave Boston/NE.

Seeing two athletes as good and likable as them go in a short time period will be a lot for me to absorb, and take some of the luster off being a sports fan. I will continue to follow but I think with less zeal.
 

NomarG

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Aug 14, 2016
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Pedro leaving was the worst for me. Especially after 04 and what was one of the happiest moments of my life. I lived with my grandparents while in college and watched every game with my now deceased GMA and brother. The Sox clinched the ALCS on my 21st birthday. It was a great year! I think this is my first post but I've been lurking since 03 lol
 

OCST

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aka girding ourselves for a potential Mookie exit

At the time, it was Clemens. I was a little too young for Lynn/Burleson/Fisk, and while Evans's last year in Baltimore was sad, it didn't alter my view of reality. I never thought Clemens would leave, and was so despondent when he did that I went through the five stages of grief.

When Mo Vaughn left a couple of years later, I was so toughened up by the Clemens experience, it hardly affected me at all, even though I wished he had stayed.

Nomar's situation seemed untenable, and I wanted no part of a Pedro extension even though I loved him (and still do), so I was OK as I could be about those departures.

Lester being traded and then spurning the Sox the following offseason might be my second biggest hurt, because there was no reason for any of that to happen in the first place. He would have been an easy candidate for an extension if the Sox (Lucchino in particular) hadn't bungled it so badly.
I was at one of Clemens' last home games. August 17, 1996. https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS199608170.shtml

II walked up to the window with a friend a minute before first pitch and we got seats five rows back of home plate, in line with the third-base line extended. Perfect view of the pitch coming in to RH batters. Never had a better seat at a major league game to watch the pitcher, any pitcher let alone a HOFer.

t was a 4:00 start, so you had that weird late-afternoon sun, and because of the time of year, you had that really weird it's-almost-fall cast to the sunlight.

Clemens had not pitched well that year. The relationship between the team and the player in the papers every day was acrimonious. No one really wanted to think he would leave but it was becoming clear that he was gone. So the park was in a really sour mood that day. It was like no one knew whether to cheer or boo.

From that close we'd hear the BOOM of the ball hitting the catcher's mitt before the ball even left Clemens' hand. On a straight fastball you could barely see the ball, especially in the first few innings where the plate was still in shadow but the mound had that strange end-of-day, end-of-summer light. You could tell that when he changed eye levels and speeds the batters were just guessing.

Clemens was great that day. Complete game shutout. No extra base hits. 11 K's. The crowd really got into it, going nuts at every strikeout, but it was just off. It felt like everyone was trying to will him to stay, was trying to celebrate how great life was with Roger Clemens mowing them down, on a hot summer day, with RED SOX popping off his bright home whites in green, green Fenway - but we all knew it was a lie. Like being with your wife, passing through a place where you shared great memories, but you were on your way to sign the divorce papers and frankly just wanted it to be over.

I was more upset over Vaughn, but being in the park that day colored my Clemens experience.

The surreal thing: in 2014, I had a pulmonary embolism that nearly killed me. I was in a coma for about a month. Coming out of a coma is not a binary thing - it's not like you're out cold one minute and then chatting as if nothing ever happened. For a week or so, there was a fear that I had incurred some brain damage.* I was disoriented, confused, and hostile*. I had plenty of hallucinations*. I didn't recognize people I knew. So they kept sending these social workers by to ask questions to test basic functioning. What are my parent's names, what year is it, etc., how many days in April, what is three plus nine, how many feet does a cat have, what color is a banana, etc. Progressing out of the coma was not linear. I would have a lucid hour and then be unresponsive and bewildered*. I would just start crying because I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know where I was, I didn't know how many dimes were in a dollar, I couldn't remember where I had gone to elementary school, and I turned on the fucking TV and there was fucking Jon Lester in a fucking A's uniform and what the fuck is wrong with my head i'm losing it I'm going to be chained in bed in a fucking diaper the rest of my life

So yeah, that one was the worst, but not for baseball

*More than usual
 

EnochRoot

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[...]

The surreal thing: in 2014, I had a pulmonary embolism that nearly killed me. I was in a coma for about a month. Coming out of a coma is not a binary thing - it's not like you're out cold one minute and then chatting as if nothing ever happened. For a week or so, there was a fear that I had incurred some brain damage.* I was disoriented, confused, and hostile*. I had plenty of hallucinations*. I didn't recognize people I knew. So they kept sending these social workers by to ask questions to test basic functioning. What are my parent's names, what year is it, etc., how many days in April, what is three plus nine, how many feet does a cat have, what color is a banana, etc. Progressing out of the coma was not linear. I would have a lucid hour and then be unresponsive and bewildered*. I would just start crying because I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know where I was, I didn't know how many dimes were in a dollar, I couldn't remember where I had gone to elementary school, and I turned on the fucking TV and there was fucking Jon Lester in a fucking A's uniform and what the fuck is wrong with my head i'm losing it I'm going to be chained in bed in a fucking diaper the rest of my life

So yeah, that one was the worst, but not for baseball

*More than usual
I suffered a TBI in 2014, and know all-too-well what you mean by disorientation, confusion and hostility coming back from it.
 

Jimbodandy

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Pedro, and it isn't close.

Like others above, I got it. Top dollar for his 15th-18th holes was an understandable hard swallow, with multiple roster spots on the move and a 1A in hand in G38. I was 35 at the time, so not the first loved player lost (Lynn, Fisk, Mo).

Still hurt badly. Best guy I have seen throw it, which is my favorite part of the game.
 
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PhabPhour20

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I was 5 years old in 1986. My first season of really watching the Red Sox with my father. That Christmas I got the 1986 Topps set (potentially still reigning as the ugliest of all time) and coveted that Clemens like nothing else in my life.

Clemens was my horse. I begged for a crappy old TV in my room in the late 80s to "play Nintendo on." What I really did was wait until everyone else was asleep and turn on the Sox game with the sounds off. I watched as much as I could but never missed the Rocket's starts. He made me fall in love with baseball and the Red Sox.

I was crushed. CRUSHED. When he was gone. Posters on my walls, all his baseball cards in toploaders lined up on my dresser, etc etc etc. It hurts so much more as a kid with your whole heart in it.

The Mookie thing will hurt too because my two oldest kids got sucked in by 2018 and they both love Mookie more than any other player. There is a lesson there for them.

Pedro and Pedroia have been my favorite post-Clemens players. Everyone could see that Pedro was running low on bullets when he left. And Petey, well, that one still hurts too.

As a side note, I got to meet Clemens at a charity golf tournament when he was with the Yankees and I was working at the hosting country club. I asked for an auto when he was just sitting in the cart waiting for the first tee. His response: "Sorry, I'm pitching tomorrow." And then he looked away.
 

jacklamabe65

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On October 11, 1970, little world Red Sox world jarred beyond measure when the team announced that they had just traded hometown hero, Tony Conigliaro to the California Angels for - among others - Jarvis and Ken Tatum. I have never been so devasted by a trade. "We just cornered the market on Tatums," my despondent father muttered as he threw down The Globe the day after the trade was announced. I could barely talk as I walked to school that morning. My childhood hero was now an Angel. "Conig's Corner," of which I had been a member for two years, was quietly disbanded.

The following summer, Tony C. and the California Angels came to town to play the Red Sox. With a mixture of loyalty, reverence, and sadness, I lined up to purchase one bleacher ticket two hours before game time. As I made my way toward the old "Conig's Corner,” I noticed the bleacher's ushers checking people's clothing. They were making damn sure that Tony still had the right background to hit from - even though he was now wearing an enemy uniform.

While we patrons in the old "Conig's Corner" had been wearing white while the Angels were batting, we quickly changed to black or Navy blue as Tony approached home plate for the first time as an opposing player. Ultimately, Tony received a frenzied, two-minute standing ovation from the Fenway faithful.

A few minutes later, when Conig sprinted out to his familiar spot in right field for the first time that afternoon, we rose as one and began calling out to him. He turned around and blew us a kiss. Eventually, the crowd quieted down, and the game commenced. Slowly, sadly, a familiar refrain could be heard coming from his old corner: "We lo-ov-ove you, Tony, oh yes we doo-ooo-ooo." Conig turned around and waved to us all. “We will ALWAYS love you, Tony!” a leather-lung called out. A lump in his throat, Conigliaro nodded and waved to us once again.

I guess there was no such things as Santa Claus when I saw him wear an Angels' uniform that day.
 

PedroisGod

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I don't think it's fair to say that it was the right move to let Pedro go. His first year with the Mets was absolutely dominant. Not to his peak levels, but he had a 146 ERA+ over 217 IP with a WHIP of 0.95. In 2006 he was dominating again until he hurt his hip slipping in the tunnel in Florida. He had a 2.79 ERA, an 80/17 K/BB and a 0.83 WHIP over 67.2 IP. The hip injury led to a calf injury and the rotator cuff tear. Did things end up the way Theo most likely thought it would? Sure. But there was no way to know that this would be how it played out. If he doesn't have that fall, are we still saying it was a good decision to let him go?
 

PhabPhour20

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I don't think it's fair to say that it was the right move to let Pedro go. His first year with the Mets was absolutely dominant. Not to his peak levels, but he had a 146 ERA+ over 217 IP with a WHIP of 0.95. In 2006 he was dominating again until he hurt his hip slipping in the tunnel in Florida. He had a 2.79 ERA, an 80/17 K/BB and a 0.83 WHIP over 67.2 IP. The hip injury led to a calf injury and the rotator cuff tear. Did things end up the way Theo most likely thought it would? Sure. But there was no way to know that this would be how it played out. If he doesn't have that fall, are we still saying it was a good decision to let him go?
If he's still pitching in the AL East?

I think it was the right decision to let him go. His ERA+ in 2005 in the NATIONAL LEAGUE was 146. That is lower than every year he pitched with the Sox except '04. He was still a very good pitcher but was getting great pitcher money.

Edit: That 2005 Mets team also had Brian Daubach, Cliff Floyd, Doug Mientkiewicz, Jose Offerman, and as an extra, eventual Red Sox, Mike Cameron.

Second Edit: Obviously this is not a pure measure of anything, but in 2005 interleague play the AL went 136-116 and hit .274 vs the NL's .255.
 
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Koufax

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While clearly not on the scale of John Lester or Mo Vaughn, the departure of Brock Holt makes me sad. He was versatile and fairly good at most everything. In addition he had a great attitude and community presence. It's hard to understand why they would cut ties with the guy.
 

PedroisGod

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If he's still pitching in the AL East?

I think it was the right decision to let him go. His ERA+ in 2005 in the NATIONAL LEAGUE was 146. That is lower than every year he pitched with the Sox except '04. He was still a very good pitcher but was getting great pitcher money.

Edit: That 2005 Mets team also had Brian Daubach, Cliff Floyd, Doug Mientkiewicz, Jose Offerman, and as an extra, eventual Red Sox, Mike Cameron.
ERA+ is league and park adjusted and he led the NL in WHIP.
 

PhabPhour20

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ERA+ is league and park adjusted and he led the NL in WHIP.
I always thought it was adjusted for each league individually? So he was 46% better than the average NL pitcher? ERA+ is comparable across league because it is normalized, but he'd have had much different stats pitching in the AL, even with the same ERA+. I guess we're both right but your point is correct in the analysis.

Either way, the 146 was in the lower-middle for his career. Clemens had a crazy 226 that year.

Pedro averaged $13.5mm/year for 4 from the Mets. Not as bad as I thought actually.

You're probably right that if he doesn't get hurt the Mets deal looks like a win. But those were his age 33-36 seasons so the likelihood of injury or major regression was pretty high.

Edit: Looking at Clemens' contracts... what an egotist. In 2005 he made $18,000,022.
 
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jon abbey

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I know it's silly to argue/discuss this topic with a member named 'PedroisGod' but it's worth noting that at least a bit of the reason BOS let him leave is that the Yankees had increasingly gotten into his head. He had a 3.46 ERA against them in 2002 in 4 starts, a 3.80 ERA in 2003 in 4 starts and a 5.47 ERA in 2004 in 4 starts, plus of course the very public incident where he called NY his 'daddy' during the 2004 ALCS.
 

PedroisGod

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I know it's silly to argue/discuss this topic with a member named 'PedroisGod' but it's worth noting that at least a bit of the reason BOS let him leave is that the Yankees had increasingly gotten into his head. He had a 3.46 ERA against them in 2002 in 4 starts, a 3.80 ERA in 2003 in 4 starts and a 5.47 ERA in 2004 in 4 starts, plus of course the very public incident where he called NY his 'daddy' during the 2004 ALCS.
And a 1.80 ERA in 2005 in 2 starts (15 IP) and 7 shutout innings against the Yankees in 2006.