Who's Next if Cora Leaves?

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I think part of the Cora/Breslow "getting along" part will be their respective deadline views. I suspect that Cora was far from convinced that the deadline teams of 22 and 23 were positioned to contend as-is. He was right. Bloom was very wrong. And more so the second time. (I put that on Bloom; others believe that he was told to spend no money. I dont think he would have been canned if he was "just following" those orders, but I get that YMMV.)

To me, the deadline is the significant get-along dynamic, aside from Breslow simply wanting "his own guy" in there, in which case nothing else matters.

I agree with this POV. The next two weeks will have a lot of impact on what Cora's thinking for his foreseeable future. If you're Cora and the last two deadlines were sell/stay pat, you could argue that that was on Bloom. If the new guy, Breslow, does something similar, then you have to think this is an ownership issue and it's going to be the same for x many years and I'm not waiting around to see that through. Obviously I am looking at this as someone with 2% (if that) of the inside data--I would bet that Cora already knows what Breslow is thinking as well as Henry--so maybe his mind is already made up for what he's going to do. But if Breslow does nothing or sells (which, BTW might be the correct long-term thing to do), perhaps Cora starts seeding his departure plans to get out in front of the story so it doesn't appear that it's his choice to the leave the Sox in October.

Problem is another team will come after Bailey if we don’t promote him. So might be an all or nothing situation.

I have not seen this, but has Bailey stated that he wants to be a manager?

 

[Slocumb If Ya Got Em]

What makes you think he would leave? Why would he? When? Any links to anything that gives rise to your question?

https://bosoxinjection.com/posts/5-potential-replacements-for-alex-cora-after-the-2024-season-01hpj0h4t1mq

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

https://bosoxinjection.com/posts/5-potential-replacements-for-alex-cora-after-the-2024-season-01hpj0h4t1mq

So a blogger has the opinion that Cora is gone at the end of the year? Nothing substantial, just a gut instinct? Oookay.

 

[Slocumb If Ya Got Em]

https://bosoxinjection.com/posts/5-potential-replacements-for-alex-cora-after-the-2024-season-01hpj0h4t1mq

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2024/05/31/alex-cora-red-sox-future-contract/

 

[Al Zarilla]

I'd like that too, but he looks like he's having some fun here with the boys
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHodZR7gTmY

Dustin sounds perfect. Sign him up.

 

[Slocumb If Ya Got Em]

So a blogger has the opinion that Cora is gone at the end of the year? Nothing substantial, just a gut instinct? Oookay.

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2024/06/28/mlb-rumors-alex-cora-manager-red-sox-reports/

 

[Trapaholic]

When I first started following baseball in the late 90's, a manager going into lame duck season meant that he would not be back. It could also set a bad precedent in the clubhouse if all the guys knew the manager had one foot out the door.

This was also a plot point in Moneyball where Art Howe was portrayed by Phillip Seymour Hoffman. This was "just a movie", obviously, but it made the final cut.

It certainly feels like a foregone conclusion that AC will be gone. The '24 season has been positive so far, but I'm not sure that will erase 2 years of frustration with management. Sounds like AC is very loyal, but I'm not sure that the competitor in him has been thrilled with the way things have been handled.

Andrew Bailey almost feels too obvious. He has a few seasons as a pitching coach and less than one full season in the Red Sox dugout. I feel like some fans have been suggesting Jason Varitek be the manager since the day he retired. Let's take a look at the last few managers and how they got here:

Alex Cora - Played for the Sox and won a ring as a role player. Bench coach for the Astros* and was viewed as a top managerial candidate while in Houston. Gets hired quickly after the 2017 season. Seems like that one was destined to happen and it just made sense - the team was ready to win.

John Farrell - Red Sox pitching coach in the "good old days" under Tito. Had some managerial experience, although not the best results. Familiar with some of the roster, took over to stabilize the operation after Bobby V. Wins World Series, a few down years, team cuts ties after 2017 with the team on an upswing.

Bobby V - Larry Lucchinos' friend. Needed a "hardass" after the chicken and beer fallout. Short sided and a disaster. His tie to the team was Larry.

Tito Francona - No ties to the team (that I remember). Previous managerial experience in Philly. Took on a loaded team that had the most pressure on them of any team in my lifetime.

Grady Little - Made a bad move at the worst possible time. Baseball lifer who was incredibly popular with players. I believe he was a minor league coach with the Red Sox before managing the big club.

Point being, under this ownership group, most of the managers have had some previous tie to the team and/or experience in a big baseball market. I find it hard to believe that at this point in the season, they don't have a candidate with a handshake deal to manage the team next year. Waiting to see how things pan out this year would be incredibly risky. They've gotta have someone in mind, right?

 

[bsj]

Tek has earned his shot

 

[YTF]

Tek has earned his shot

He's certainly put some time in, but I honestly couldn't tell you that he's earn a shot or not. What he does ATM seems to be a very specific and compartmentalized job.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

He's certainly put some time in, but I honestly couldn't tell you that he's earn a shot or not. What he does ATM seems to be a very specific and compartmentalized job.

My feelings exactly

 

[Al Zarilla]

He's certainly put some time in, but I honestly couldn't tell you that he's earn a shot or not. What he does ATM seems to be a very specific and compartmentalized job.

Some managers get the job with no managing experience whatsoever, like Mike Matheny and Aaron Boone.

 

[donutogre]

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2024/05/31/alex-cora-red-sox-future-contract/

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2024/06/28/mlb-rumors-alex-cora-manager-red-sox-reports/

You need to actually read the links you post and show a degree of media literacy. The first one is an opinion/commentary piece where the author goes on for hundreds of words and somehow manages to say nothing of substance. The author provides no evidence or even hints at sources who are saying this. He just presents it as a forgone conclusion with absolutely nothing to back it up.

The second one is a rumor sourced by Jon Heyman. Here's the actual source. All he says is "no one expects" Cora to be back in 2025, with a link to this earlier story. But it's not even Heyman's reporting. It's Heyman reblogging a comment made by Ken Rosenthal at The Athletic.

Well, what does he say? I don't know because I'm not listening to the podcast to find out. But, Heyman quotes him thusly:

While appearing on Foul Territory on June 13, Rosenthal mentioned the Yankees as one of three teams that could fire their manager “if things don’t go the way they want them to” and/or “somehow flames out in the playoffs.”

Rosenthal also said that the Dodgers and Cardinals could have openings that might be appealing for Cora.

Notably, Rosenthal cited that Cora could take a year-long reprieve — similar to what Bill Belichick is currently doing in the NFL — or even transition to a front office role.

Note that the only Rosenthal direct quote has nothing to do with Cora. If he said something stronger or more more meaningful, I'd expect Heyman to have put it in his story.

The story goes on to say that Chris Cotillo also said something about Cora leaving. From Heyman's story:

MassLive.com Red Sox beat writer Chris Cotillo also listed the Yankees, Dodgers and Phillies as possible landing spots for Cora.

“I don’t think Alex Cora’s going to be back here,” Cotillo added. “I think he wants a big-market challenge, and he’s not going to let rivalry get in the way if the Yankees are going to offer.”

Source for all this is Cotillo's podcast appearance on Foul Territory: https://x.com/FoulTerritoryTV/status/1801318233607389558

.
@RedSox
beat writer
@ChrisCotillo
says Manager Alex Cora could land with the
@Dodgers
,
@Yankees
or
@Phillies
when he becomes a free agent

Sure, he could land on these teams (all of which have managers). But he could also stay with the Sox, take a year off, go into another job altogether. There's absolutely nothing in the way of substantive content in any of these stories.

Cotillo "doesn't think" Cora will be back. Not that he's heard from sources in the front office or at other teams that he won't be back. It's his opinion, albeit a reasonable one. There's smoke around him leaving, due to him not having a contract primarily. That just makes it easy for stories like this to gain footing — however, it does not lend them any legitimacy.

 

[nvalvo]

Andrew Bailey.

I do think Bailey is a strong candidate to be a future manager of the Sox, and at some point we’re likely going to have to give him a bigger title to retain him, but that particular title seems a few years off.

I am not convinced that Cora wants out of Boston based on the evidence that he declined to tell reporters explicitly that he wanted to come back. Makes sense for both Cora and Breslow to play out the relationship, at least for a few months, and see how it goes. I think he'll be back.

I think he'll be back, but who knows. My sense is that these concerns and speculations get louder whenever the Sox are playing well to satisfy the people who are invested in seeing the team in disarray.

I think we also don’t know much about Cora’s and Breslow’s rapport. We know yhey were teammates. They are both cerebral observers of the game, but in pretty different ways.

Do they like each other? Do they resent one another? Do relievers and bench infielders even hang out much?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

I’ve always found the concept of Cora choosing not to return a bit silly. There are 30 MLB Managers jobs and despite what Eduardo Perez says, there is no guarantee that Cora will ever get anything better. I think it’s very likely that Cora returns. Not because he’s anything special, but he’s perfectly cromulent, and good with the Boston press. The only way he doesn’t return, in my opinion, is if Breslow wants his own guy.

As for who would replace him, David Ross wouldn’t surprise me. But maybe we’ll find our own Stephen Vogt. We all think the world of Tito, but Cleveland hasn’t exactly fallen apart with Vogt. They’re doing incredibly well with Jose Ramirez and a bunch of guys most people aren’t familiar with.
Managers are mostly fungible. Bring Cora back or don’t. The Sox will have good games and bad games, good years and bad years regardless

 

[joe dokes]

Some managers get the job with no managing experience whatsoever, like Mike Matheny and Aaron Boone.

Or Vogt this year.

 

[TrotNixonRing]

Some managers get the job with no managing experience whatsoever, like Mike Matheny and Aaron Boone.

I mean, not exactly ringing endorsements of that route

 

[chrisfont9]

Seems like the calculus has shifted? Now Cora is in charge of a young emerging core rather than ... whatever you would call last year. And you'd think the team would want continuity around that core. Maybe those conclusions are wrong, but certainly the factors worth considering have changed.

 

[simplicio]

You'd think Cora himself might be interested in sticking around with that core as well.

 

[joe dokes]

I mean, not exactly ringing endorsements of that route

For all the shit he gets, there are not too many managers with as many games and as high a winning%% as Boone.

Seems like the calculus has shifted? Now Cora is in charge of a young emerging core rather than ... whatever you would call last year. And you'd think the team would want continuity around that core. Maybe those conclusions are wrong, but certainly the factors worth considering have changed.

Not just for the team, but for Cora's calculus has probably changed as well.

 

[chrisfont9]

You'd think Cora himself might be interested in sticking around with that core as well.

For all the shit he gets, there are not too many managers with as many games and as high a winning%% as Boone.


Not just for the team, but for Cora's calculus has probably changed as well.

Yeah exactly, i was trying (poorly) to articulate that. Both sides may feel differently. Maybe it will run aground in the second half but what's happening is relatively rare.

 

[Beomoose]

First choice is bring Cora back. Second choice is Tek. Third is Rocco.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Seems like the calculus has shifted? Now Cora is in charge of a young emerging core rather than ... whatever you would call last year.

Wouldn't you call last year pretty much the same group of young players, but for whatever reason, they didn't really emerge last season? I'm genuinely asking, because it's not like it's a whole new cast of characters.

 

[YTF]

Seems like the calculus has shifted? Now Cora is in charge of a young emerging core rather than ... whatever you would call last year. And you'd think the team would want continuity around that core. Maybe those conclusions are wrong, but certainly the factors worth considering have changed.

In addition to this, I think that Cora was a much different person last year. Physically he looked terrible and I can only guess, but I think that the job had taken a mental toll on him as well. Players lacked discipline, as a team the played bad baseball and if there is any truth at all to speculation he may not have been agreement with Bloom and ownership. As the season wound down some of us were left scratching our heads when Cora said that they would be addressing issues during spring training like they couldn't have been addressed in season. IMO Cora came into spring training re-energized and the team has responded.

 

[ColdSoxPack]

If Cora does not re-sign in season, as he said he will not, and hits the open market, what are the chances the Red Sox will outbid for him? It’s got to be zero, right? Sign him now or he is gone.

 

[YTF]

If Cora does not re-sign in season, as he said he will not, and hits the open market, what are the chances the Red Sox will outbid for him? It’s got to be zero, right? Sign him now or he is gone.

Who else is interested and how much are they offering? Kind of hard to answer your questions without knowing the answers to the others.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

For all the shit he gets, there are not too many managers with as many games and as high a winning%% as Boone.

most days in first place!

 

[Benj4ever]

Ross or someone with those qualities. Other than at the extremes, I think that baseball-strategically, there's some fungibility among managers.

I *think* it's safe to say that Cora won't want to leave because the organization is bereft of talent. That may not have been the case in February, as it's tough for the MLB manager to have a good grip on minor leaguers, or "old" pitchers with a new pitching coach. I suspect Cora is a believer in whatever Bailey's group is doing.

I think part of the Cora/Breslow "getting along" part will be their respective deadline views. I suspect that Cora was far from convinced that the deadline teams of 22 and 23 were positioned to contend as-is. He was right. Bloom was very wrong. And more so the second time. (I put that on Bloom; others believe that he was told to spend no money. I dont think he would have been canned if he was "just following" those orders, but I get that YMMV.)

To me, the deadline is the significant get-along dynamic, aside from Breslow simply wanting "his own guy" in there, in which case nothing else matters.

I think the 22-23 teams were too far away from seriously competing to go big. I also believe that Bloom was fired because ownership needed a scapegoat, and he fit the job perfectly. In any event, we're in for a crucial next two weeks, as tonight's announcer's mentioned.

To the point of the question, I like Ross. I think he'd do well here. I don't know if there's any amount of money that would keep Bailey from accepting a promotion elsewhere, but I'd back up the Brinks truck.

 

[chrisfont9]

Wouldn't you call last year pretty much the same group of young players, but for whatever reason, they didn't really emerge last season? I'm genuinely asking, because it's not like it's a whole new cast of characters.

Well probably Sale and Turner were leaders? But yes, a large part is the same only taking steps forward.

 

[Cassvt2023]

I love Alex Cora. In his pre-game presser last night, the question posed was in regards to the Sox playing better at home, he said that they wanted people to come to Fenway for "more than just the experience". A not so subtle shot at Werner and Kennedy perhaps?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

I love Alex Cora. In his pre-game presser last night, the question posed was in regards to the Sox playing better at home, he said that they wanted people to come to Fenway for "more than just the experience". A not so subtle shot at Werner and Kennedy perhaps?

Sounds like more of a not so subtle shot at his team.

 

[Cassvt2023]

Sounds like more of a not so subtle shot at his team.

I strongly beg to differ. Why would he do that when they are playing good baseball? Not his style, I think you're WAY off base.

 

[joe dokes]

I strongly beg to differ. Why would he do that when they are playing good baseball? Not his style, I think you're WAY off base.

Not so much at home. That was Cora's point about the fans. Have to play better at home. I'm not sure it was a shot at anyone. It's not like the players think they've played well at home.

 

[YTF]

I strongly beg to differ. Why would he do that when they are playing good baseball? Not his style, I think you're WAY off base.

Subtle or not, what difference does it make if it was a "shot" and left for interpretation?

 

[HfxBob]

I strongly beg to differ. Why would he do that when they are playing good baseball? Not his style, I think you're WAY off base.

I think it's just that Cora has a sense of humor.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I love Alex Cora. In his pre-game presser last night, the question posed was in regards to the Sox playing better at home, he said that they wanted people to come to Fenway for "more than just the experience". A not so subtle shot at Werner and Kennedy perhaps?

So . . . they should pick up some players for home games?

 

[chrisfont9]

Not so much at home. That was Cora's point about the fans. Have to play better at home. I'm not sure it was a shot at anyone. It's not like the players think they've played well at home.

Yeah I bet he’s all over them about winning at home. And he should. Part of their education.

 

[BringBackMo]

Seems like people just want their favorite former player to be the next manager of the Red Sox.

I strongly beg to differ. Why would he do that when they are playing good baseball? Not his style, I think you're WAY off base.

But his style is to take "no so subtle" shots at an ownership group that has been very supportive of him? I'm not sure I follow this line of thinking.

 

[HfxBob]

But his style is to take "no so subtle" shots at an ownership group that has been very supportive of him? I'm not sure I follow this line of thinking.

Just a harmless little joke. Much has been made of the Fenway Experience and much has been made of the Sox poor home record.

Personally I think it's a good sign for the organization that he feels comfortable saying something like that knowing that his bosses won't freak out about it.

 

[YTF]

So . . . they should pick up some players for home games?

There's enough people in the stands wearing jerseys that they could make THAT a part of the Fenway experience.

 

[nvalvo]

But his style is to take "no so subtle" shots at an ownership group that has been very supportive of him? I'm not sure I follow this line of thinking.

There's this narrative that has ossified, with very little evidence that I have seen, that Cora is/was not broadly on the same page with Bloom or Breslow or Kennedy or ownership or whomever.

People interpret completely routine baseball management like leaving a young reliever out to take his lumps in a lopsided loss as some sort of esoteric message to the front office, as if Cora couldn't just call Breslow on the phone or something, when it would be much more economical to just interpret that as trying to save the bullpen for the next few days.

Just a harmless little joke. Much has been made of the Fenway Experience and much has been made of the Sox poor home record.

Personally I think it's a good sign for the organization that he feels comfortable saying something like that knowing that his bosses won't freak out about it.

Why would his bosses freak out about it? What is there to freak out about?

To read it as a shot at Kennedy is to assume that, because the media has a tantrum every time Kennedy speaks and Kennedy once used the phrase "Fenway Experience" in a way that the most tendentious among the media interpreted to mean that Kennedy doesn't care whether the team is good, Cora understands that phrase to have the same connotations as, like, Chris Cotillo or Pete Abraham would, is paranoid.

 

[RS2004foreever]

I made the mistake of listening to Mazz for 10 minutes yesterday, and it was about Cora is going to leave because he feels disrespected by Henry and blah blah blah.
It all sounds like the usual made up boston sports media kerfuffle to me.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

There's enough people in the stands wearing jerseys that they could make THAT a part of the Fenway experience.

In Savannah Banana games, if a fan catches a foul ball on the fly, the batter is out.

 

[Tuor]

I also am in the "there isn't as much to see here as reporters whose livelihood relies on creating drama are suggesting" camp. I agree that Cora being allowed to play out this last year without a contract is significant and unusual, but I don't see that it necessarily means anything more than that one or both sides were uncertain about the future before this season began. I can easily imagine both Cora and ownership/Breslow treating this year as a kind of "prove-it" year. How well will Cora and Breslow work together? Is that a relationship that they can both work with and would want to continue? How are things with the team? They didn't know those things before the season started, and I can imagine neither side being in place to be whole-hearted about an extension at that point.

I do agree that things seem different with Cora and the team this year, and the Breslow/Bailey thing is clearly working out. The results and the atmosphere of the team certainly seem to suggest that the current model is working out great, and that both sides might quite like to move forward together and will sit down and figure that out when the season is over. Maybe one or both ends up having different ideas, but I think that the idea that he is definitely gone because he hasn't yet been extended is a pretty simplistic and myopic view.

 

[InsideTheParker]

Completely off-topic, but look at your avatars!

I strongly beg to differ. Why would he do that when they are playing good baseball? Not his style, I think you're WAY off base.

Not so much at home. That was Cora's point about the fans. Have to play better at home. I'm not sure it was a shot at anyone. It's not like the players think they've played well at home.

 

[YTF]

In Savannah Banana games, if a fan catches a foul ball on the fly, the batter is out.

We should take that a step further and if a fan catches a ball on the fly they get to play SS for the rest of the game.

 

[simplicio]

We should take that a step further and if a fan catches a ball on the fly they get to play SS for the rest of the game.

Ceddanne's been alright there, but we could probably stand to upgrade at 2B.

 

[cantor44]

Torey
View attachment 85248

I actually did mean Tony Lovullo. Few people know who he is and if he often gets mistaken for Torey, but there's no relation. Tony Lovullo is a DIII coach in Iowa - tiny liberal arts college with methodist roots - you wouldn't have heard of it - but he's taken his team to like 23 conference championships in a row ...so, I figured he might be a dark horse, kind of out-of-the-box candidate.

 

[Al Zarilla]

I actually did mean Tony Lovullo. Few people know who is and if he often gets mistaken for Torey, but there's no relation. Tony Lovullo is a DIII coach in Iowa - tiny liberal arts college with methodist roots - you wouldn't heard of it - but he's taken his team to like 23 conference championships in a row ...so, I figured he might be a dark horse, kind of out-of-the-box candidate.

I googled (and binged) Tony Lovullo and got Torey Lovullo. Copilot doesn’t know him either. So, there is a Tony Lovullo?

 

[shanks]

i’ve felt for a while that managers have been underpaid. with councel, that appears to finally be changing. you’re trusting these people with 200-300M worth of investment, pay em to run it properly.

i think cora just wants to get his. he didn’t make a whole bunch during his career. he wants to test what he’s worth. i think he, like any other free agent should do just that.

a difference is individual players can still put up individual stats to support their contracts. managers have wins and losses, so situations (ie. team posed to win) appear to matter more to managers. sox look like a good bet going forward in that regard.

pay the man to manager your investment. henry knows a thing or 2 about that.

 

[grimshaw]

I think part of the reason we're discussing this is because Breslow probably wasn't just going to lock up a manager he didn't have a relationship with and Cora probably wanted to see what he was in for as well. I don't take it as a sign that Cora necessarily would want to shop around, but maybe he'd want to move on if ownership isn't willing to do what it takes to win - or pay a good manager a lot of money.