Who would YOU hire as HC if you were Kraft

[Cellar-Door]

So it sounds from most sources like the Patriots may be done requesting interviews, and the choice will be one of 5 (but not really) candidates.

I'm curious what the board thinks is the best path forward from here...

Options are 1 of the 5 listed, or re-opening the search.

Also interested to see if people have ideas about their (reasonable) dream staff.... with some explanation why it makes sense (so what connection or rumors tie these guys, etc.)

 

[bluefenderstrat]

I’d love to see Johnson, get Maye some help on the line and WR, and make the team entertaining even if they’re sub .500 for another year.

 

[clueandaprayer]

I think Flores is going to be an extremely good coach his second time around.

 

[astrozombie]

I went Johnson, but I am curious what his staff would look like. I imagine he takes someone from the Lions to be his OC, so it would probably be a first time person in that role rather than someone like JMD. Ideally, he gets an experienced DC and I would actually love to see Saleh in that role. Was a great DC, couldn't overcome Jets dysfunction (not necessarily a knock there), experience as a HC too that Johnson could lean on. I think a staff like that - new energized HC/OC and a respected DC - would give the team a lot more confidence than the previous staff.

 

[RSN Diaspora]

I vote for reopening the search. Vrabel and Johnson are defensible candidates, but neither is a slam dunk like, say, hiring Parcells was. I have less heartburn over Johnson than Vrabel--at least there we know it isn't driven by sentimentality or the belief that there's some Belichick/Brady magic to be recaptured by getting the band back together. But I don't know why we aren't talking to Brian Flores, Matt Nagy, Spags, or considering some of the coaches who we haven't discussed and don't have a bye this week like Vance Joseph or Joe Brady, the latter of whom used to be a QB coach.

 

[fieldslikebuckner]

Voted Vrabel. Couple reasons:

1. Now that Mayo is gone, there are plenty of stories the last couple days regarding the overall lack of discipline and unseriousness of his leadership, which makes what Vrabel brings to the table appealing.

2. If Ben Johnson is as introverted as reported, I'm not sure that's what the team needs after Mayo.

 

[Cellar-Door]

So I'll lead it off....

I would pick Ben Johnson.

I think an offensive coach who can develop Maye is the key to becoming a true contender, and Johnson is an elite offensive mind. I also think there is some downside protection there.... most coaches, whether new or re-treads fail, BJ will likely fail, Vrabel will likely fail, the roster is going to be a huge factor. I trust Johnson to develop Maye more than I trust anything else in this cycle, so even a failure in record will provide long term benefits.

Also though... I think BJ is one of the best new candidates in years, he's an elite offensive mind, players talk about his ability to identify, and explain schemes in the kind of glowing terms guys talk about Belichick. He has run a room for a number of years in DET, and has significant experience in a variety of staffs and organizations.

Staff buildout....

For OC, I'd let him pick whomever he wants but here are the top candidates to me...
Tanner Engstrand - current QB coach in DET (might get the OC job there)
Anthony Lynn- Johnson worked under him in DET, not a great playcaller, but BJ has said he will call his own plays... respected older coach, was a HC at one point, lot of experience running a room, culture setter.
Darell Bevell- Similar to Lynn (though never a HC)
Bo Hardegree- a QB coach mostly, was here briefly then worked under Josh McDaniels in LV.


For DC- tougher to figure out.
John Fox- worked together in DET briefly, a senior former HC to lean on, disciplined
Dom Capers- long-shot, worked together at times but he's probably too old to want a DC job full time.
George Edwards- former MIN DC, they overalapped, currently LB coach in TB
Lou Anarumo- not a huge fan of this, but they overlapped, Anarumo has been DC In CIN for years
Frank Bush- on the same staffs in MIA, was briefly a DC in HOU now a LB coach
David Corraro- current OLB coach in DET, he and Johnson also worked together in MIA


ST-
Darren Rizzi- current interim HC in NO, supposedly they are pretty close meeting in MIA


Front office-
I think bringing in John Dorsey in some role makes a lot of sense, Krafts want to keep Wolf in some role to continue the re-structure. Dorsey and Wolf spent a lot of time together in GB, and later Dorsey hired him in CLE as his Asst. GM, Dorsey had a good run with the Chiefs, making some of the key moves (including Mahomes) that set up their dynasty.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

I went Johnson, but I am curious what his staff would look like.

If both Glenn and Johnson are hired there might be some jostling over Lions staff to bring along.

 

[mwonow]

I voted Johnson, but would switch to reopen if I could. I really like the Flores suggestion.

 

[Mooch]

Vrabel. I don't think you can go with another first time HC after the Mayo debacle. You need someone with experience building a coaching staff, developing the playbook, establishing authority with the players, etc...

 

[cshea]

I voted Johnson. The possibility that he's the next McVay or Shannahan is too much to pass up.

(I'm expecting it to be Vrabel and I'm OK with him too).

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

ST-
Darren Rizzi- current interim HC in NO, supposedly they are pretty close meeting in MIA

I hope they can do better here. Rizzi is a psycho.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I hope they can do better here. Rizzi is a psycho.

as ST coordinator? You want a psycho there. He's one of the best thought of guys in the league in that role, NFLPA voted him top 5 I think 2 years in a row. They could go elsewhere, but Rizzi as his ST coordinator was a rumor going back to last cycle.

 

[cornwalls@6]

I went with Johnson. I would like to see a bright young offensive mind come in here, build that kind of a culture, and develop Maye, who think has a chance to be really good. Assuming he brings in a good staff, of course, but those caveats apply to anyone they hire. FWIW, my guess is they go with Vrabel as a "safer "option. Which I could live with, but ultimately would love see them be more aggressive and go with Johnson.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Nah, the guy is unhinged for real. I've never seen a coach go as ballistic as him when the NO punter mildly fucked up this past season. It was actually disturbing. He makes Bobby Knight look like The Dude.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

My impression is that Ben Johnson is really smart, detail-oriented, competitive, and driven. He's also proven himself as the designer and play-caller of multiple high-performing offenses.

So, while nothing is assured, he seems a strong candidate to get the most out of Maye.

Reasonable dream staff? Off the top of my head...

• Defensive Coordinator: Rob Saleh
• Offensive Coordinator: Someone with people skills/strong at player development/a teacher/extrovert who can spend lots of time on personnel issues that Ben Johnson is going to get more tired of, faster
• QB Coach: Alex Van Pelt / TC McCartney (Whichever one HC prefers)
• Special Teams: Jeremy Springer / John Fassel (if we could poach him from Dallas while things are up in the air over there)
• GM: Ray Agnew

I'm fine with Vrabel as well, but would want him to have strong OC and DCs who aren't about to bolt for HC jobs. So, guys who've already had that shot and are less likely to get another bit of the apple. Josh McDaniels is the profile I have in mind.

 

[j44thor]

I'm a Johnson Stan. I'd trust him to develop Maye and hopefully bring over some of DET culture. I also like Johnson because he has proven success over multiple years with an innovative offense unlike last years darling Bobby Slowik.
Det has a lot of strong offensive pieces but the core of their offense doesn't require a unicorn generational talent like Lamar Jackson or Josh Allen to win out of structure thus should transfer better.
I think Vrabel would make them competent and competitive but he seems the equivalent of hiring current day Tomlin with a relatively high floor, low ceiling. I'd rather swing for the fences.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Beyond many other good points already made that I won't rehash, Johnson vs Vrabel seems like a classic ceiling vs floor decision. Maybe I've been spoiled by 20 years of unprecedented success but I've got a strong ceiling preference.

 

[EddieYost]

I voted Johnson. The possibility that he's the next McVay or Shannahan is too much to pass up.

(I'm expecting it to be Vrabel and I'm OK with him too).

This is pretty much where I am at. If it's Vrabel, that's fine too, but I hope he comes with someone that we can dream on as OC.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Johnson's offense in Detroit works so well because of the offensive line and the, dare I say, twitchiness of Gibbs and the receivers. He can install his theories immediately, but he can't make it immediately successful with the linemen and skill players on hand.
If they go with Johnson -- and, more importantly, he wants to go with them -- everyone needs to be on the same page as to how long it will take to build the offense. Otherwise, what's the point?

edit: That said, I would love to see them break away from the familiarity train and hire him. I just don't think Kraft is up for that at this stage of his ownership and life

 

[BigJimEd]

Truthfully, they need to build out both sides of the ball. Front office will play a big role in the next coaches success. Haven't seen much reporting on whether any of these guys are going to push for additions and/or changes there.

 

[Toe Nash]

I would love Johnson and I think there is a good chance we would be kicking ourselves if we do not hire him when we have the chance (unless he simply prefers another opening, which is also possible). Main reasons:

• He has done a great job with the offense in DET and players speak highly of him
• Offensive coordinators seem to get poached fairly often and more than DCs so I would rather have an offensive guru as HC and then look for a good DC (Saleh I hope, but there are multiple good options)
• DET is the best at 4th down decisions in the league and that is a simple way for a coach to directly add win expectancy to the team (I assume Johnson would be similar to Campbell in this regard). Eventually everyone in the league may catch up this this but I would have said that ten years ago.

I am not worried about his never being an HC before as his resume is much longer than Mayo's and he has been OC in a modern and successful org. I think he would also have enough people who would be excited to work for him that he could fill out the staff well.

As we were lucky enough to have the #3 pick in a draft with 3 good QB prospects, I feel like we are also lucky enough to have a HC opening this offseason when Johnson is available. I would not kill myself if they pick Vrabel but I think it would be a mistake.

 

[MillarTime]

Vrabel. I don't think you can go with another first time HC after the Mayo debacle. You need someone with experience building a coaching staff, developing the playbook, establishing authority with the players, etc...

X2

 

[Southpaw12]

Vote vrabel. In my opinion he’s the safer pick, brings an adult back to the locker room, and I’m sure mitigates some risk for the krafts.

 

[gammoseditor]

Johnson's offense in Detroit works so well because of the offensive line and the, dare I say, twitchiness of Gibbs and the receivers. He can install his theories immediately, but he can't make it immediately successful with the linemen and skill players on hand.
If they go with Johnson -- and, more importantly, he wants to go with them -- everyone needs to be on the same page as to how long it will take to build the offense. Otherwise, what's the point?

edit: That said, I would love to see them break away from the familiarity train and hire him. I just don't think Kraft is up for that at this stage of his ownership and life

This sounds like a challenge no matter who they hire. There’s no offensive system that lends itself to having a bottom 5 unit in both offensive line and pass catchers.

 

[Tony C]

I think Flores is going to be an extremely good coach his second time around.

Voted Johnson, but agree on Flores.

 

[E5 Yaz]

This sounds like a challenge no matter who they hire. There’s no offensive system that lends itself to having a bottom 5 unit in both offensive line and pass catchers.

Exactly. So if Kraft wants to be "better" sooner than later, I would think he'd favor Vrabel who can make them look more organized and show some progress.
Not what I would do, but ...

 

[jsinger121]

I'm picking Vrabel. Proven coach with a good track record of success in his first stint. The ownership in Tennessee is a clown show with the way they just showed the GM the door after 2 years. I also feel the staff under Vrabel can be really good as well.

 

[E5 Yaz]

This has nothing to do with the thread topic-- which is about who *you* would hire.

It's also [esp. the bolded part] a completely irrelevant crapping on someone over a topic that has nothing to do with football operations.

This Board is worth reading because people post better than this. Pick you game up or don't post.

That post is one of the reasons why we have the Report button

 

[Cellar-Door]

Johnson's offense in Detroit works so well because of the offensive line and the, dare I say, twitchiness of Gibbs and the receivers. He can install his theories immediately, but he can't make it immediately successful with the linemen and skill players on hand.
If they go with Johnson -- and, more importantly, he wants to go with them -- everyone needs to be on the same page as to how long it will take to build the offense. Otherwise, what's the point?

edit: That said, I would love to see them break away from the familiarity train and hire him. I just don't think Kraft is up for that at this stage of his ownership and life

I don't agree with this. , DET is elite because of the line yes, but Johnson also spams "easy button" plays at a high rate, quick plays, and similar which he uses to get guys in space, but which are also key ways other teams mitigate bad lines.
If anything the Vrabel OCs were more O-line dependent (though who knows who his new one will be)

Every team needs good O-line play. But I'd have a ton of confidence in a Johnson offense working with what he had, he's such a great OC in part because he's adaptable and the core of the offense is the principle of always giving the QB at least 1 easy option.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I don't agree with this. , DET is elite because of the line yes, but Johnson also spams "easy button" plays at a high rate, quick plays, and similar which he uses to get guys in space, but which are also key ways other teams mitigate bad lines.
If anything the Vrabel OCs were more O-line dependent (though who knows who his new one will be)

Every team needs good O-line play. But I'd have a ton of confidence in a Johnson offense working with what he had, he's such a great OC in part because he's adaptable and the core of the offense is the principle of always giving the QB at least 1 easy option.

I think we're not that far apart. I cede your points about Johnson's scheme, but I just don't see the players on the NE capable of executing it. I'd love to see the Krafts go all in and try, even though I doubt they will

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I think it depends entirely on who each guy plans on bringing with him

Johnson with a young staff seems like a potential disaster from day 1, but paired with an experienced DC (a la McVay and Phillips) would be less worrisome

Vrabel with some no name or mediocre OC would worry me as well

I think Vrabel has an easier path to competent mediocrity and Johnson has a better ceiling. I don’t really love either of them as options and I don’t think Johnson is a real consideration anyway

 

[Auger34]

I picked Vrabel. Close but his exeperience wins out for me

I don't think it's a slam dunk that Ben Johnson's scheme translates to a much less talented offense. IMO, there's a decent chance that his scheme collapses and he's a disaster as a head coach.

 

[bankshot1]

If I was Kraft I would have way better knowledge of the candidates, their strengths and weaknesses, from several perspectives, human, football, organizational, do they work and play well with others. I'd also have the ability to pick up a phone and ask around.
But I don't.

So knowing what I know I'm going with the same guy when we did this a week ago.

Vrabel.

Vrabel.
My 2 scents.
He has NFL coaching experience, a degree of success coaching, probably learned from his time in Tenn, familiar with the Pats, a part of their historic legacy, perhaps has some BB in him and presumably has a relationship/comfort level with ownership. He's a hard ass with a sense of humor and a fuck you too attitude.

He may be a good fit for an org that IMO needs a stronger presence and more flavor that Kraft's Mayo seems to provide.

 

[Justthetippett]

I voted Johnson. He's the home run swing and why not. Six Lombardis is already an embarrassment of riches. Let's see if they can get the most out of Maye.

On the staff I think you have to give him some hardasses, especially on D. He's the brains. He needs some braun. I would also like a former HC or two.

OC: Probably doesn't need to be a playcaller. I think some of the current guys (maybe McCartney and McAdoo remain). Bring in a guy like Engstrand because he can translate and support Johnson's concepts.

DC: Saleh. He's a big personality. Will have guys playing hard. Good ying to Johnson's yang. Keep Belichick and Hightower.

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

I voted Johnson, with Saleh coming as DC. No clue for OC/QB coach, but clearly has to be someone aligned with Johnson's concepts.

 

[Dogman]

I voted Johnson, with Saleh coming as DC. No clue for OC/QB coach, but clearly has to be someone aligned with Johnson's concepts.

Add Josh McDaniels and I'd be thrilled. McDaniels was a big part of the Mac Jones 10-7 year and, really, that should be enough to enshrine Josh in Canton with Jones enshrined in a model GMC on @Smiling Joe Hesketh mantle.

 

[bsan34]

I vote Vrabel. Higher floor, proven effective head coach, won multiple road playoff games. With his experience will come stability that they desperately need after the last 5 years.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Add Josh McDaniels and I'd be thrilled. McDaniels was a big part of the Mac Jones 10-7 year and, really, that should be enough to enshrined Josh in Canton with Jones enshrined on @Smiling Joe Hesketh mantle.

McDaniels also tooled up an entirely new offense for the Cam Newton year, which while ultimately unsuccessful was very well tailored towards Newton's (declining) skillset.

 

[sezwho]

Flores, love everything about his relentless commitment to winning and unwillingness to sacrifice integrity. Then Johnson by a nose over Vrabel because offense.

As before, not bad place to be with any of them. Would perhaps hate/fear facing Vrabel on Jets sideline more than Johnson, as thought experiment, so maybe needs a rethink.

 

[ZMart100]

Other. I'd try to figure out which ST coordinator figured out how the new rules would play the fastest and interview that guy. I want a guy who can think big picture strategy and has experience thinking about a roster on both sides of the ball.

 

[sezwho]

Other. I'd try to figure out which ST coordinator figured out how the new rules would play the fastest and interview that guy. I want a guy who can think big picture strategy and has experience thinking about a roster on both sides of the ball.

That’s pretty galaxy brain. I like it, that person due for promotion of some kind. HC might be a little over skis, but would want more of that in my organization and would listen very close.

 

[streeter88]

I think Johnson would be the best hire, but I think Kraft will hire Vrabel. If you are trying to steady the ship quickly, Vrabel makes as much sense as anybody, but you do still then need a good OC, who brings in a system compatible with your philosophy as an HC. But I also think Vrabel is probably pretty good at finding people that will help, as he has been in several organizations now.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Here's my genius idea: sign both Vrabel and Johnson, then trade one of them to the Raiders for a first-round pick!

I voted Vrabel, but would be delighted if Johnson's interview were so strong he persuaded Kraft to go there. Same for Aaron Glenn.

Is anyone else surprised that these interviews seem to come together in the space of a couple days, and, judging by the fact some teams have 3-4 of them scheduled in a day, seem to be scheduled for not more than a couple hours? I'd have guessed the candidates would have teams preparing cut-ups and volumes of statistical analysis to take into the room with them. Don't know how Johnson could do that specialized prep for Bears, Pats, Titans, Jags, Raiders interviews over a 2-3 day span.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Other. I'd try to figure out which ST coordinator figured out how the new rules would play the fastest and interview that guy. I want a guy who can think big picture strategy and has experience thinking about a roster on both sides of the ball.

Careful, that was the Joe Judge rationale for the Giants.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

dupe

 

[bsj]

Vrabel. I love Johnson, but we really need someone who isn't learning on the job this time.

 

[BigJimEd]

Is anyone else surprised that these interviews seem to come together in the space of a couple days, and, judging by the fact some teams have 3-4 of them scheduled in a day, seem to be scheduled for not more than a couple hours?

The virtual interviews with coaches of playoff teams can only be a maximum of three hours per NFL rules.

 

[AB in DC]

Vrabel or Flores. Both prior head coaches who shouldn't have been canned the previous time around.

 

[Gash Prex]

I would hire Johnson - as I stated in the HC thread, I think that in 2025 a Head Coach must have their own successful system for an offense (and fully understand it) and not just rely on a coordinator that brings his system with him. The current NFL is offense based and you are too vulnerable when the coordinator could leave easily after a successful year - which is why I think you see such inconsistent results for an offense under coaches like Vrabel. I also think it's why our offense shit the bed when McDaniels left. I also believe that Maye is our biggest asset and Johnson would maximize his development - regardless of coordinator.

I believe that Johnson would hire intelligent coaches around them and we would have a coaching edge every week - which is what the players want the most (besides winning and money).