Who do YOU want Pats to end up with in draft?

[DJnVa]

I know it's a lot more complicated than this, but should the Pats end up with the chance to draft one of these guys, which one do you hope it is? And for purposes of this, just assume all are available (and Pats are in the top 3).

This can be you assuming they get #3 and hoping Maye drops. Or you thinking they get #2 and their choice between Harrison and Williams. There's only 3 choices, because I'm interested in the breakdown amongst these 3 dudes. I understand your thought process might be "Pats will be #3 at best, and that means Harrison, and I'd rather they trade back, get an OT and pick up a pick". Fine, there will be 5-6 months to talk about that. This is about these 3.

So, however you arrive there, as of mid-November, who do you want?

 

[cshea]

I voted for Harrison. I feel like his floor is a lot higher than Maye or Williams and the bust rate is way lower for high WR's than QB's. I kinda feel like I'd take Harrison and then try to fill QB with a later round pick like Pennix, Sanders, Nix, etc. Even if they flame out having Harrision will help whoever they end up settling on at QB, even if it's a free agent like Cousins or trade for Kyler Murray.

I am also terrible at evaluating college QB's.

 

[McBride11]

I voted for Harrison. I feel like his floor is a lot higher than Maye or Williams and the bust rate is way lower for high WR's than QB's. I kinda feel like I'd take Harrison and then try to fill QB with a later round pick like Pennix, Sanders, Nix, etc. Even if they flame out having Harrision will help whoever they end up settling on at QB, even if it's a free agent like Cousins or trade for Kyler Murray.

I am also terrible at evaluating college QB's.

Exactly my thought process for MHJ over 1 of the QBs.

 

[tims4wins]

I want Harrison, because from what I have seen, there is far lower of bust potential and much higher HOF potential than the others. I want a guaranteed star, I think MHJ is that.

Edit: I guess I'm 3rd in line here!

 

[BaseballJones]

I'm on team MHJ. I'd be ok with getting Daniels or Penix with their second pick.

 

[rodderick]

Always the quarterback. Don't recall many superstar receivers taking their teams to consistent contention without also having the piece at QB. Sure, Maye and Williams have much higher bust potential, but the transformative effect for the franchise is they hit in contrast to MHJ hitting is simply incomparable.

 

[BaseballJones]

Always the quarterback. Don't recall many superstar receivers taking their teams to consistent contention without also having the piece at QB. Sure, Maye and Williams have much higher bust potential, but the transformative effect for the franchise is they hit in contrast to MHJ hitting is simply incomparable.

I completely get your point here, and it makes a world of sense, but how sure are you that Maye or Williams are better than Daniels or Penix, for example?

 

[rodderick]

I completely get your point here, and it makes a world of sense, but how sure are you that Maye or Williams are better than Daniels or Penix, for example?

Not sure at all, just as no one can reasonably be sure that MHJ will be more productive in the league than Nabers, Coleman, Odunze or Egbuka.

 

[BaseballJones]

Not sure at all, just as no one can reasonably be sure that MHJ will be more productive in the league than Nabers, Coleman, Odunze or Egbuka.

Right. But as I see it (again, which could be WAY wrong), I think that the gap between MHJ and the next best WR is much larger than the gap between Williams/Maye and Daniels/Penix.

But then again, you really do have to weigh positional importance. Franchise QBs change EVERYTHING and you don't often get a shot at the #1 or #2 guy.

 

[8slim]

Right. But as I see it (again, which could be WAY wrong), I think that the gap between MHJ and the next best WR is much larger than the gap between Williams/Maye and Daniels/Penix.

But then again, you really do have to weigh positional importance. Franchise QBs change EVERYTHING and you don't often get a shot at the #1 or #2 guy.

Even if you're right and the gap is MONSTROUS, it's still a QB league and the Pats are absolutely desperate for great QB play.

I think you always take a swing at picking the premium QB and hope for the best. Chances are better that both are busts than HoFers, but you still gotta take the swing.

Something about Williams worries me. I'd go with Maye at the moment. But I know nothing.

 

[rodderick]

Right. But as I see it (again, which could be WAY wrong), I think that the gap between MHJ and the next best WR is much larger than the gap between Williams/Maye and Daniels/Penix.

But then again, you really do have to weigh positional importance. Franchise QBs change EVERYTHING and you don't often get a shot at the #1 or #2 guy.

I agree, the gap is larger. I just think aside from positional value, it's far more likely the Pats are in position to grab the number one receiving prospect in the draft at, say, pick 13 in the next few years than they are to be in position to grab one of the two best QBs in the top 3.

 

[Auger34]

Even if you're right and the gap is MONSTROUS, it's still a QB league and the Pats are absolutely desperate for great QB play.

I think you always take a swing at picking the premium QB and hope for the best. Chances are better that both are busts than HoFers, but you still gotta take the swing.

Something about Williams worries me. I'd go with Maye at the moment. But I know nothing.

This was my same exact logic. Any chance you can take to get a swing at an elite QB you have to take it...and I don't know what it is about Williams but I am worried too. Maybe I am taking that unsourced report about wanting to have ownership equity in a team too seriously but that combined with how long he holds the ball have me feeling a little uneasy about him.

 

[BigJimEd]

Always the quarterback.

Haven't seen enough of these guys to truly answer but if you like one of the QBs you grab them. Most important and most difficult to fill.

 

[Commander Shears]

I certainly won't complain if they end up with a star QB but if they have a pick in the top three, I'd actually love them to trade down. There are a couple of second tier QBs (Daniels & McCarthy especially) who I like quite a bit and with this many holes, spinning a top pick into multiple firsts would be really helpful.

 

[yecul]

This team is not 1 player away nor 1 QB away.

Trade down, sign a competent QB to bridge, draft someone you like, and fill in multiple gaps.

They need a multi-year plan.

 

[j44thor]

"Jayden Daniels has entered the chat"

He just broke college football last week as the first player ever with 350+ pass yds and 200+ rushing yards in the same game and this was against FL not a scrub. These stats are also eye-opening.

Data from Pro Football Focus

shows Daniels has excelled against the blitz and on deep passes this season. He's completing 73 percent of his attempts when blitzed and is 30-of-46 (65.2 percent) for 1,166 yards (25.3 yards per attempt), 17 touchdowns and no interceptions on throws 20+ yards downfield.

His ability to make plays with his legs is something else that should entice NFL front offices. He has 918 rushing yards this year, which, combined with his 3,164 passing yards, gives him 4,082 total yards, 549 yards more than Washington quarterback Michael Penix Jr. and 826 yards more than Oregon quarterback Bo Nix, Daniels' two most formidable competitors for the Heisman.

https://www.yardbarker.com/college_football/articles/mel_kiper_jr_provides_update_on_lsu_qb_jayden_daniels_rising_draft_stock/s1_13132_39530613

@SMU_Sox has Jayden above Maye. He should at least be in the convo with the big 3.

 

[Pxer]

You've got to get a superstar QB. Just keep taking swings until you land one. In order to be a perennial contender and maximize Super Bowl wins, that's the recipe. It's a three-year down cycle when you miss. It's a 15-year up cycle when you hit.

We should be rooting for the Pats to lose every game for the rest of the year if you want to see the most possible SB titles in your lifetime.

 

[ifmanis5]

You've got to get a superstar QB. Just keep taking swings until you land one. In order to be a perennial contender and maximize Super Bowl wins, that's the recipe. It's a three-year down cycle when you miss. It's a 15-year up cycle when you hit.

We should be rooting for the Pats to lose every game for the rest of the year if you want to see the most possible SB titles in your lifetime.

Agreed here. Have to get a franchise QB. They're hard to get and the most valuable position in sports right now. I do like Penix but target a QB with the pick.

 

[DJnVa]

@SMU_Sox has Jayden above Maye. He should at least be in the convo with the big 3.

That's fine, and if he continues he'll be in the discussion, making this a race to a top 4 pick and not top 3. Right now this is just a basic poll regarding the consensus top three 6 months out.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

One of the premium QB or Harrison.

 

[Cellar-Door]

QB, always QB top 3 if you don't have one.

The odds of a 2nd round QB being a franchise QB are..... very low.

 

[rodderick]

I have to say I could be sold on a "fuck it, let's win some games right now" plan that involves signing Kirk Cousins, draftin Marvin Harrison Jr. and picking one of the second tier QBs in the second round.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I'm firmly in the Drake Maye camp at the current moment. I don't think any team is passing on Caleb at the #1 unless some truly fucked up shit, or injuries happens between now and draft day.

But when I watch Maye, I see a more polished version of Josh Allen than what Allen was at this stage. He's got that kind of arm, he moves around extremely well at his size, he can make throws on the move, etc.

This tape alone makes me salivate, and yes, I know it's highlights, but there is some special, special stuff in there:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E79mq3JHiW8


I like Daniels, but to me, his floor is much, much lower than Maye's. Now, if we can get Daniels and his buddy, Malik Nabers, and start with a college teammate relationship a la Tua/Waddle, or Hurts/Smith type, bring that on as well, but for now, I'm still firmly on Maye.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

This team is not 1 player away nor 1 QB away.

Trade down, sign a competent QB to bridge, draft someone you like, and fill in multiple gaps.

They need a multi-year plan.

a true franchise QB can turn a team around quickly while you fill other gaps with “solid” players (see Houston). The defense, if healthy and if Judon doesn’t fall off a cliff, is solid. The RB group is fine.

what you don’t want is to end up perpetually drafting 14th, missing out on premium QB prospects or having to wait until a good QB crop comes along.

The availability of even adequate let alone good QB’s outside of the draft is almost zero. Agreed they need a multi year plan but that plan has to be based around a QB

 

[tims4wins]

I have to say I could be sold on a "fuck it, let's win some games right now" plan that involves signing Kirk Cousins, draftin Marvin Harrison Jr. and picking one of the second tier QBs in the second round.

Ditto.

 

[8slim]

This team is not 1 player away nor 1 QB away.

Trade down, sign a competent QB to bridge, draft someone you like, and fill in multiple gaps.

They need a multi-year plan.

I’d love to hear more about the logic of this.

The Pats weren’t “one player away” when they drafted Bledsoe. Should they have traded down then? They did end up in the Super Bowl 4 years later, after all.

 

[yecul]

a true franchise QB can turn a team around quickly while you fill other gaps with “solid” players (see Houston). The defense, if healthy and if Judon doesn’t fall off a cliff, is solid. The RB group is fine.

what you don’t want is to end up perpetually drafting 14th, missing out on premium QB prospects or having to wait until a good QB crop comes along.

The availability of even adequate let alone good QB’s outside of the draft is almost zero. Agreed they need a multi year plan but that plan has to be based around a QB

It wasn't per the rules, but I'm not counting on that type of QB being available. They aren't as bad as the Giants and a couple other teams. So that 3-5 range.

Generically... I agree. If you have a chance at a franchise QB you take it every time. If you are convinced one of these guys is it then pull the trigger. But Harrison, despite how great he may be, is a guy to exchange for many assets IMO based on where this team is.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

I have to say I could be sold on a "fuck it, let's win some games right now" plan that involves signing Kirk Cousins, draftin Marvin Harrison Jr. and picking one of the second tier QBs in the second round.

the big problem with that is a decision on Cousins needs to be made prior to the draft unless his injury makes his market slow to develop

if you’re drafting top 3, and hope QB goes 1/2 to take Harrison, and he goes top 2, do you pass on a QB at 3 because you’ve just given Cousins a big chunk of change?

if you’re drafting outside the top 3, do you aggressively move up for Harrison? Or take Nabers (or Alt) if he’s off the board at 4 or 5?

I think I could only be sold on the Cousins plan if the Cousins contract was structured in a way to easily get out of if a franchise QB falls into their lap and if the Pats are drafting exactly 3rd.

 

[teddykgb]

Thing with that Maye video is that almost all of it has him moving around throwing off balance and not stepping into throws himself. That kind of WB may be current Josh Allen but it might also be just in the league Josh Allen and the Patriots probably don’t let him do that stuff anyway

 

[DJnVa]

Thing with that Maye video is that almost all of it has him moving around throwing off balance and not stepping into throws himself.

I think that's due to the "highlight" nature of this. It looks cooler.

Here's a single game, which shows more of what you're looking for. I like the throw about 1:30 in.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Thing with that Maye video is that almost all of it has him moving around throwing off balance and not stepping into throws himself. That kind of WB may be current Josh Allen but it might also be just in the league Josh Allen and the Patriots probably don’t let him do that stuff anyway

There's plenty of throws in there from the pocket (and plenty more available, this video is really about the arm talent).

That said, with this Pats offensive line, you better be able to throw on the move and off balance. It don't matter what the Pats let him do, if that's all there is...

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I think that's due to the "highlight" nature of this. It looks cooler.

Here's a single game, which shows more of what you're looking for. I like the throw about 1:30 in.

The throw at the 1:00 mark of the video I posted is a frozen rope 30 yards down the seam from the pocket. That's the throw that personally makes me salivate. The 3/4 arm one at around 1:50 is Mahomes type shit. At 3:20, he makes a throw down the sideline to a receiver that got open that Mac and a lot of other quarterbacks would lead and put air under it. He just says fuck it and zips that thing in there like it's a quick slant.

When he's on the move, his fundamentals are great. Always has his eyes up, when he's going to his left, always opens up gets his feet set and makes that throw to get enough zip on it across his body, just so, so much good stuff in there.

 

[ehaz]

I voted Drake Maye because hitting on a franchise QB is IMO the only way for this team to avoid a 3 year + rebuild and I don't think they'll have the chance to pick top ~3 again next year. I feel like this team with a couple free agent signings and Marvin Harrison is basically a recipe for a 7-10 / 8-9 team for the foreseeable future.

And Maye over Williams is less an informed opinion than a feeling that Williams has a higher bust potential.

 

[cornwalls@6]

I'm on team MHJ. I'd be ok with getting Daniels or Penix with their second pick.

This is my ideal scenario as well. I really like Penix, and think landing MHJ and him would be a bounty. Grab a stop gap functional veteran, and use the rest of their capital to address OL, TE, etc.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I get the "always QB" mentality but both Maye and Williams have looked rougher than I would expect given all their weapons/protection. Add in the complete crapshoot that is QB evaluation and I'd lean MHJ.

In the end, it doesn't really matter because this team simply needs more skill players, period.

 

[RG33]

I think you have to take a QB if they are there. I would take Caleb over Drake at this point, but it is probably a wash. You have to take the swing at the franchise QB when you do not have a franchise QB, bust rates be damned.

 

[NomarsFool]

What's the usual market for trading out of, for example, #3? This team just seems so devoid of skill players, it's hard for me to get excited about only adding a WR. #3 seems very high to draft a WR - that's got to be pretty darn high for recent history, no?

 

[nighthob]

I'm going for Marvin Jr, because he eally has an ultra high floor and ceiling. And, two, it will warm me to the cockles of my shriveled heart to see Marvin Sr. forced to root for the Patriots.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

What's the usual market for trading out of, for example, #3? This team just seems so devoid of skill players, it's hard for me to get excited about only adding a WR. #3 seems very high to draft a WR - that's got to be pretty darn high for recent history, no?

You are probably getting at least a future number one and another pick to trade down from number 3.

It’s unusual for a WR to go that high, but it happens. Just looking at the past few decades, Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson were picked third overall, Calvin Johnson and Charles Rogers were picked second, and AJ Green was picked fourth.

 

[EL Jeffe]

I cannot believe Caleb Williams is last place right now. I know he's beginning to develop some bad habits, but he has franchise-altering talent.

Look, I wouldn't be upset with any of these three. But If I could pick which one I could have? I'm going to take the QB with the best chance of being truly special every time.

 

[BaseballJones]

I cannot believe Caleb Williams is last place right now. I know he's beginning to develop some bad habits, but he has franchise-altering talent.

Look, I wouldn't be upset with any of these three. But If I could pick which one I could have? I'm going to take the QB with the best chance of being truly special every time.

It's not like he's playing poorly.

2022: 333-500 (66.6%), 4,537 yds, 9.1 y/a, 42 td, 5 int
2023: 235-346 (67.9%), 3,249 yds, 9.4 y/a, 29 td, 4 int

Someone could be scared off from some of his less than stellar games this year, and then see him explode in the NFL for another team. It's very risky to NOT pick him if you get the chance.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I cannot believe Caleb Williams is last place right now. I know he's beginning to develop some bad habits, but he has franchise-altering talent.

Look, I wouldn't be upset with any of these three. But If I could pick which one I could have? I'm going to take the QB with the best chance of being truly special every time.

The only reason I didn't pick him over Maye is because I don't think the Pats have a shot at the #1 pick, and I don't think there is a chance in hell that the team with the #1 pick doesn't take Caleb.

A GM that doesn't draft Caleb at #1 damn well better hit on their pick, and also hope that Caleb doesn't even look as good as Stroud, because otherwise, that's the type of mismanagement that should lead to a new career.

 

[cshea]

I get the "always QB" mentality but both Maye and Williams have looked rougher than I would expect given all their weapons/protection. Add in the complete crapshoot that is QB evaluation and I'd lean MHJ.

In the end, it doesn't really matter because this team simply needs more skill players, period.

I'm no expert and voted for MHJ but my read for Caleb Williams is that his offensive line is horrendous. He's been sacked 29 times. The ND game he was running for his life. I'll defer to the draft and college experts on the skill positions but I haven't been too impressed with them either. A compounding factor is the USC defense is absolutely horrific so Williams basically has to score a TD every drive. He's put up 20, 32, 42 and 27 in the 4 USC losses this year.

Haven't really watched enough of UNC to gauge what Maye has to work with but I don't think Caleb was put into a great position.

 

[bsj]

I want a Marvin Harrison & Jayden Daniels pairing.

 

[astrozombie]

I went with Harrison because it just seems like successful teams in the league have elite pass-catchers and the Pats have none (I like Douglas, but no one is throwing him into the same convo as Diggs/Hill/Jefferson/etc). I don't follow too much college football so I have no idea if Maye is any good and Willams floating stuff like he will only play for certain teams or wants equity (which, obviously is not going to happen) make me skittish. Plus, I have said before that I would prefer that the Pats start building a competent team (Oline, WR, TE, etc.) and then draft the next QB since a good portion of it is a crapshoot anyway.

 

[thehitcat]

Trade the #3 overall to Arizona to get the LT Fashanu at 4 and my Binkie JJ McCarthy ~ 20 with the Texans pick is kind of my dream scenario.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

I want a Marvin Harrison & Jayden Daniels pairing.

I was just about to post that if you can get Daniels in the 2nd (or trade into the back end of the 1st), pair him up with MHJ and then pray they can find an OT in R3, I'd be doing backflips.

Edit: But if I know I can't get Daniels, say he goes mid-1st, I might lean Williams/Maye with the 1st pick and then go OL or WR in R2.

 

[PRabbit]

If trading down isn't an option, MHJ. Trade up if you have to for Daniels.

 

[ehaz]

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-new-england-patriots-five-round-2024-mock-draft-marvin-harrison-jayden-daniels

I like this one. I don't think Daniels gets out of the 1st though. Too many teams need QBs.

 

[EJPats]

Daniels is starting to give me Anthony Richardson vibes. Which isn’t to say that Daniels will go 4th overall, but I do expect him to steadily climb. Long story short, at this point I’d be surprised if he’s available in round 2.