The consensus was Renteria messed up the last game of the season, a bullpen do or die game. I forget the details.
Most likely Jerry wanted TLR anyways.
White Sox hire Tony LaRussa as manager
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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Most likely Jerry wanted TLR anyways.
Yeah, I don't think Reinsdorf really needed a reason but Renteria used 9 pitchers in a 9 inning 6-4 loss, pulling Crochet (the second one) after just 9 pitches, still in the second inning. Of course when you use 9 guys in 9 innings, odds are at least a couple of them aren't going to have it, and CHI gave up 6 runs in the 4th/5th to lose 6-4. We talked about it a lot here during the game.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/OAK/OAK202010010.shtml
Meanwhile, the A's used 8 pitchers in the same game. The epitome of what the 2020 season was, really. Guess when you are dead set on doing something, you grasp at any excuse to do it.
If there's one thing that's more important than winning professional baseball games at the highest level of the sport, it's having respect for your opponent based entirely on unwritten rules and archaic patterns of behavior, many of which have historically been not-so-subtly leveraged against non-white players who, (apparently) need(ed) to learn how to play the game The Right Way™.
Got it. Thanks, Tony!
Got it. Thanks, Tony!
I was going to mention that, both managers way overmanaged that game as did many managers in the odd three game first round series. I will dig up our commentary here at the time.
View: https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/1395035043718782977
If he keeps digging like this he will end up in the core of the earth
Here you go, a lot of first guessing in this thread but I did forget that Crochet left injured, which messed up Renteria's plan.
https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/10-1-mlb-playoffs-red-wedding-day.31633/
Hey, respect the game and stop trying to play it competitively right in the middle of it!
I know many don’t subscribe to this but TLR was the manager of the dirtiest steroid infested team ever. Is THAT “good sportsmanship”???
What part don’t people subscribe to? That the A’s were the “dirtiest” steroid-infested team? Or that LaRussa had some responsibility?
Dude. Basically everyone was on board with PEDs in baseball until they weren't. The players, the teams, the fans, the media. The steroid era was great. LaRussa sucks but it's not because he managed A's and Cardinals teams that featured 'roided up freaks.
If a bunch of players went to Reinsdorf and said either TLR goes or I go (ie trade me) I honestly would not put it past Reinsdorf, to trade the players over firing his "buddy".
Also, I bet the CHI media is trying to get a comment from both Reinsdorf and the GM about this... Will be interesting to hear their thoughts (thats if they even comment on this)
Also, I bet the CHI media is trying to get a comment from both Reinsdorf and the GM about this... Will be interesting to hear their thoughts (thats if they even comment on this)
This is the same asshole that replaced a relief pitcher - who had just recorded an out and hadn't allowed any runs in his 2/3 of an inning - with 2 out in the 9th up 9-2 with Mark Bellhorn coming to the plate. THAT is everything that's wrong with baseball.
Can he? Probably. Should he? Maybe not worth the injury risk. The Twins are lucky LaRussa is taking so much public attention that their meathead pitcher throwing at Mercedes seems to basically be off the hook for that stupidity.
I wish LaRussa thought the point of the game was to get it over with last month when I watched him prolong one for several minutes so he could bring in his closer with 2 out in the 9th because it had technically become a save situation with a 3-run lead.
That’s just another unwritten rule. You don’t pitch your closer when up more than 3, and you must pitch him if up 3 or less in the final inning and the incumbent pitcher has a moment of shakiness.
Has any team ever won the World Series despite having the worst manager in the game? This could be an interesting experiment in manager relevance. I applaud the White Sox for even attempting this.
By definition I think the answer is no. The worst manager would find a way to sabotage a team.
Well that's what makes this so interesting. Can this White Sox team be sabotaged? Their best players are mostly Hispanic, can they just carry on in Spanish and just pretend LaRussa isn't there? I think it's possible. A younger LaRussa could at least pretend that if they laughed at him or ignored him, he'd take them on, so then it probably doesn't work. But this version, I think at his age he'd prefer to just sit quietly and stay out of the way. He gets the "OK grandpa" treatment and they just go about winning?
C'mon. Pitching a position player is conceding the game. It's not a golden opportunity to pad your stats - and if you blatantly do so at the expense of a team that's already surrendered, you're putting players at risk - including getting thrown at by a genuine pitcher.
Sorry - I like the unwritten rules. How many people here wanted a certain Oriole batter head hunted after taking out Pedroia on a dirty play? Oh - that unwritten rule is OK?
Tradition has its place.
Sorry - I like the unwritten rules. How many people here wanted a certain Oriole batter head hunted after taking out Pedroia on a dirty play? Oh - that unwritten rule is OK?
Tradition has its place.
Considering that he is of Spanish heritage on his mother’s side and Spanish was his first language, I’d guess that experiment wouldn’t work.
You intentionally injure a guy, you get what’s coming to you. You hit a 3-0 homer off a position player, you did your job.
Can I get a list of unwritten rules so I know when not to get annoyed or when to get outraged?
BULLLLLSHITTTT
Pitchers intentionally throwing at hitters for any reason is gutless, dirty, and weak. It is now, and it was 20 years ago and it was 80 years ago, regardless of what the neanderthals playing the game thought at the time. There should be zero tolerance of it in the game now.
As Max Power so elegantly alluded, hurt feelings do not equate to hurt knees (or ribs or arms or faces).
And for the record, I was 100% against the certain Oriole batter being head hunted. And you know who else was against it? Dustin fucking Pedroia.
I'm in LaRussa-land, not attacking you. So not trying your best in order to avoid injury is ok if you're down by 10? Maybe we shouldn't run out grounders. Those hammies could go at any time.
So what would be the appropriate thing for a hitter to do? can they swing 3-1? or only 3-2?
Even then, can they take a full swing or should they only try to hit a single?
Surely not just try to make an out and actually make their personal stats worse just because the other team concedes.
This is all so stupid.
If anything, hitters should be swinging more often when the game's out of hand. Let's keep things moving.
If we need to implement a mercy rule, let's just do that.
If we need to implement a mercy rule, let's just do that.
Yermin Mercedes is a 27-year old rookie. He has worked very hard to achieve his dream when I bet many in his professional and personal life were telling him to move on from baseball. When there’s a decision to be made about his contract, his playing time, whatever, this homer will be a factor. I would expect him to do anything he possibly can within the official (not unwritten) rules to stay in the majors and have a career he had worked really hard for, harder than I bet many other players. I would not expect him to give away a plate appearance in a 15-4 game because of Tony LaRussa‘s unwritten rules.
Exactly to the bolded. I remember a couple games in high school where we up 10 or 12 runs in the 6th of a 7 inning game. Coach told us to go up hacking even if the pitcher was struggling to find the plate, because a ball in play was a chance for the defense to make an out and get the game over with. Walks don't help get us back on the bus.
We should definitely be looking at these actions separately. Hahn fired Renteria for reasons. Reinsdorf hired LaRussa for reasons. Hahn didn’t fire Renteria for overmanaging so he could turn around and hire Tony LaRussa.
What if they did? What if Hahn and Reinsdorf identified 5.10(g) to be the new market inefficiency and it somehow led to LaRussa being the perfect in-game manager?
I sort of agree with you in regards to throwing at hitters. I have no problem with Barnes firing a heater at Machado in retaliation for what he did to Pedey, hell I was upset with Dustin for throwing Barnes under the bus to the press afterward. I also was 100% in favor of Joe Kelly throwing at Austin after he spiked Brockstar. I don’t even object to a guy like Pedro throwing at people just for the hell of it as a matter of strategy, he goes into detail about his methods in his book.
But throwing at a guy for hurting your feelings? Because of some archaic ideal about “respect” and “sportsmanship”? Fuck all of that. You don’t throw at guys because they hurt your feelings and 99% of the unwritten rules are unfathomably stupid.
For shits and giggles, WIkipedia has a written list of the unwritten rules (does that make them un-unwritten?)
Here are some:
(and they also mention not mentioning "no-hitter" during a no-hitter)
I think bunting to break up a no-hitter is OK if the intent is to win the game. Not so OK if the only intent is to avoid your team's embrassment of being no-hit.
(What do we think of, say, some fictional baseball player yelling, "I got it!" as he runs from 2nd to 3rd during a pop-up?)
Here are some:
- Do not bunt to break up a no-hitter
- Do not swing on a 3–0 count when your team is comfortably ahead
- Do not spend your time admiring a home run you hit
- Do not steal bases if your team is ahead by a significant amount
- Do not work the count if your team is winning or losing by a significant amount
- Do not walk in front of a catcher or umpire when walking to the batter's box
- Do not stand on the dirt near home plate when the pitcher is warming up
- Do not speak to a pitcher who is in the process of throwing a no-hitter
- A pitcher who is removed from the game in the middle of an inning must stay in the dugout until the end of the inning
- A pitcher should not indicate displeasure if one of his fielders commits an error
(and they also mention not mentioning "no-hitter" during a no-hitter)
I think bunting to break up a no-hitter is OK if the intent is to win the game. Not so OK if the only intent is to avoid your team's embrassment of being no-hit.
(What do we think of, say, some fictional baseball player yelling, "I got it!" as he runs from 2nd to 3rd during a pop-up?)
The last one is fine. Don’t embarrass your teammates in public. The rest are as dumb as dumb gets.
I wonder when some of these became unwritten rules. I know Cobb would intentionally attempt low percentage steals when the game was out of hand just to bolster his reputation as someone who could run at any time and keep pitchers distracted.
I just spent too long searching for a gif of fruitbat screaming, "catch the ball" at Lofton.