Which player would you pick to take the leap/be ready out of the gate that has less NBA experience than Tatum?

See Topic Title, Who would you pick?


  • Total voters
    111

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
13,214
If you could have any of the rookies be ready from the gate or any of the players with less NBA experience than Jayson Tatum to take the leap, who would you pick?

I immediately went to Nesmith because I think he could score 16-18 on really good shooting in that scenario. But then when I stop to think about it, I think Langford with the leap would probably be a better overall player. Hard to pick.

I think a leap from Time Lord wouldn't really change the teams outlook much. Unless his leap involves a 3 point shot and/or the passing game of Jokic. Plus he's closer to FA and I don't think the Celtics will sign Time Lord if he ends up like Capela. The Celtics would sign Nesmith or Langford to 16-20 mil deals.

I think Pritchard may actually be ready out of the gate but I think his ceiling is limited to back up PG.

Edwards or Waters taking the leap probably just creates problems on the defensive end.

There's also Grant Williams. I'm not sure what a leap by him actually looks like.

Not included Javente, he is old.


I think I'd end up going with Nesmith over Langford even if Langford would be better overall. It's kinda like TJ Warren vs healthy Oladipo.

And yes, I'm aware the likelihood of Nesmith or Langford playing 30 minutes a game this season is not very high.

So I ask again, who would you pick to take the leap? Which C's player with less experience than Tatum do you think has the most potential if they reach their ceiling? For this exercise, ignore absolute ceilings, aka Nesmith isn't going to be Klay.
 

DGreenwood

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 2, 2003
1,383
Seattle
I thought Nesmith at first but Langford with a leap is a much better all around basketball player so I’m going with him.

Nesmith ready out of the gate is still a specialist.
 

Jimbodandy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,437
around the way
I voted Grant. If he was able to 1. add some secondary scoring like Theis or better and stop treating the rock like a hot potato and 2. improve his lateral footspeed and/or anticipation on D slightly, he becomes a much better player in high leverage situations. And I can see one or both of those things being possible through the game slowing down a bit and optimized training, respectively.
 

Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
10,735
Nashua, NH
Nesmith, if he can leap into being an elite NBA shooter. This team needs as much 3P shooting as possible, especially with Hayward gone.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
6,637
If Langford had a normal offseason, I’d have been inclined to go with him, but he’s still in a cast and not supposed to be ready for the start of camp after with his surgery and his game is based on being more of a distributer and pick and roll handler, which is hard to develop without active reps.

So I went with Nesmith. We saw the blueprint with Herro, a rookie with a silk smooth jumper and a knack for getting open, and how that type of player can come in and score points and frustrate defenses. Nesmith isn’t guaranteed to have that level of success, but it seems like a doable feat.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
13,214
I voted Grant. If he was able to 1. add some secondary scoring like Theis or better and stop treating the rock like a hot potato and 2. improve his lateral footspeed and/or anticipation on D slightly, he becomes a much better player in high leverage situations. And I can see one or both of those things being possible through the game slowing down a bit and optimized training, respectively.
If you had to use a player, who would Grant's comp be in your scenario?
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
13,214
I also figured it would be Nesmith, Langford and Williams in the top 3. I'd be surprised if anyone else got votes, actually.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
9,577
Yeah, given the Hayward departure I go with Gwilly. Him getting more confident in his passing and becoming a better three point shooter does a ton for this team.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
18,991
I guess it depends what we mean on "ready" and "the leap"

I lean towards the leap because to me the leap is a move to at the very least above average at your position. In that case give me a Langford leap.
If we just mean one step up, then I'll take Nesmith being an NBA contributor from day 1.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
37,262
If GWill can add a consistent jumper, he becomes a much more intriguing player. He's obviously a smart basketball player and CBS trusts him. He just needs to be a more dynamic offensive player, which he's certainly capable of. I'm honestly not expecting much from Langford this year. Lost the offseason and Nesmith/trade may make him relatively obsolete.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
13,214
I guess it depends what we mean on "ready" and "the leap"

I lean towards the leap because to me the leap is a move to at the very least above average at your position. In that case give me a Langford leap.
If we just mean one step up, then I'll take Nesmith being an NBA contributor from day 1.
Just assume their rookie year is "the leap."
 

Jimbodandy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,437
around the way
If you had to use a player, who would Grant's comp be in your scenario?
Really it's college Grant. Have to think on a pro comp. Dray is a lazy comp because I don't expect that Grant will ever pass at that level.

It would be great if he could cover smaller guys better. On offense, basically stop staying within himself so much. If you're being cheated off or covered by a jag, go to the hole. I get that CBS gives out minutes based on good defensive rotations and not giving the ball away, but hey it's year 2.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
19,288
I picked Grant before reading the comments. He shoots a good FT% and after an awful start it started to look like he was shooting the 3 better.

He knows what he is doing so with the confidence to make shots I see a very good player.
 

benhogan

Granite is his new binky
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
9,883
Santa Monica
you mean 3rd year?

and junior year Grant Williams is a really interesting player.
I'd be thrilled with 2nd year Dray... would be great for the Celtics

22mpg 6pts/5rebs/2 assists + excellent defense

Grant would also be a year younger. Perfect compliment to JayCrew
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
13,214
I'd be thrilled with 2nd year Dray... would be great for the Celtics

22mpg 6pts/5rebs/2 assists + excellent defense
Is that really that much of a leap or just natural progression?

I meant more like Grant Williams being closer to 3rd year Draymond or Nesmith being something like 2nd year Allan Houston.
 

benhogan

Granite is his new binky
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
9,883
Santa Monica
Is that really that much of a leap or just natural progression?

I meant more like Grant Williams being closer to 3rd year Draymond or Nesmith being something like 2nd year Allan Houston.
It's the defense I really care about.

If he comes back drilling 38% 3pt shots, especially from the corner, things get really interesting.

His offensive counting numbers will be muted. I'd expect GW to be much "more ready out of the gate" than the rest of the 1st/2nd yr players
 
Last edited:

Minneapolis Millers

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,632
Twin Cities
I guess it depends what we mean on "ready" and "the leap"

I lean towards the leap because to me the leap is a move to at the very least above average at your position. In that case give me a Langford leap.
If we just mean one step up, then I'll take Nesmith being an NBA contributor from day 1.
Yeah, this is the tension I saw. I went with Granite because I’m confident he’ll be ready, and I think we’ll see improvement, but it will be incremental. More of a hop than a leap. A healthy Langford could take a big leap forward, but I’m less confident in it. I’m hoping Nesmith’s spot up and screen 3s are good from the get go, but his passing won’t be great, and he‘ll need time on D to figure out CBS’ switches and rotations.
 

Mugsy's Jock

Eli apologist
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 28, 2000
12,326
UWS, NYC
I think Grant Williams will be the best player this year, but also think his ceiling isn't off the charts. The only guy on this list with real "take the leap" potential for my money is Time Lord, as a rim-running defensive terror and break finisher.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 10, 2017
2,251
I voted GWill, he showed a deep touch with his 0 for forever start of the season balanced by 33% 3PT shooting December to the shutdown, then 13-28 (46%) 3PT shooting in the bubble (reg season + playoffs). It was apparent that Stevens trusted the hell out of Grant during the playoffs to be a competent part of the team defense. Guarding 5s a majority of the time will be a fail, but with TT on board and RWIII hopefully taking another incremental step, he can focus on guarding wings and the occasional post-up player.

The Draymond comparison doesn't feel right but is probably the closest. Grant will fall short on the ball distribution/vision in comparison, and his defense will certainly fall short unless he's a freak of nature, but his shot could be a LOT better than Dray's.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
13,214
I voted GWill, he showed a deep touch with his 0 for forever start of the season balanced by 33% 3PT shooting December to the shutdown, then 13-28 (46%) 3PT shooting in the bubble (reg season + playoffs). It was apparent that Stevens trusted the hell out of Grant during the playoffs to be a competent part of the team defense. Guarding 5s a majority of the time will be a fail, but with TT on board and RWIII hopefully taking another incremental step, he can focus on guarding wings and the occasional post-up player.

The Draymond comparison doesn't feel right but is probably the closest. Grant will fall short on the ball distribution/vision in comparison, and his defense will certainly fall short unless he's a freak of nature, but his shot could be a LOT better than Dray's.
Is a modern day Horace Grant apt for Grant Williams?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
11,335
Of course its Tacko.

"A leap" is so arbitrary. If Tacko got a respectable three, a little more athletic, and a good feel for basketball, hed be a better Yao Ming. People forget how dominant he was for a stretch.

Tacko time!
 
Last edited:

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
24,725
Is a modern day Horace Grant apt for Grant Williams?
Not a bad comp in terms of strengths and the (upside) value. GW is potentially a better passer and shooter; HG had 4-5 inches on Grant and that matters defensively. Needless to say, that's a pretty optimistic future for GW but I think a reasonable archetype to have in mind
 

Pablo's TB Lover

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 10, 2017
2,251
Is a modern day Horace Grant apt for Grant Williams?
Not quite that, because Horace is 6'10" and would have played the 5 pretty much throughout his career if not for playing alongside Bill Cartwright and Shaq for long stretches. But adjusting for small ball, Grant is not as undersized in this era as he would have been 10-20 years ago, and I have to think if Horace was playing in the modern era he would have a pretty competent 3-pointer based on his percentage on long 2s. They do have similarities in their games, I'll give you that.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
7,297
Kiev, Ukraine
Even if Langford took a leap, you’d have a similar issue as there was with Hayward, where the skillset is too redundant to get full value (note, pedants, the “full”).

All 3 of those guys would fill the wing depth gap with a leap, but Nesmith pretty clearly fills the other biggest need, which is a high-gravity shooter.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
19,691
where I was last at
I hope its either Nesmith or Langford, as the need is probably the greatest for an 3 pt assassin and good shooting guard. Right now Nesmith is all projection,. IMO in limited minutes Romeo showed decent instincts and real promise on D. But we don't know if he can be an NBA scorer.

But I voted for Grant as he seems the furthest along, showed pretty good court sense for a rookie, and has balls. He's Smart-lite, except bigger. If he can develop a consistent 3-ball he's going to be a nasty 2-way player.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
18,991
Since the question is who we would pick in an ideal situation, I'm even more convinced it should be Langford after thinking about it... a leap for Langford is basically putting him on the Jaylen Brown trajectory.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
24,725
I have to think it is Langford, as he would replace a lot of Hayward's overall production and minutes albeit with a different (and not quite yet as good) package---better defense, more slashing, less creating off the dribble, fewer threes. That is certainly their biggest gap.

For me, Nesmith is second---the high gravity gunner is a big missing piece.

I love me some Grant, but the upside from "best realistic Grant" is not as big a leap as the two above for me
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
18,991
I have no idea what Langford's good trajectory looks like. He's a shooting guard who (right now) can't shoot. What is he?
I think it's way too early to say he can't shoot, he barely took any shots last year.

If he can't shoot 3s, but can get to the line like he did.... poor man's DeRozan on offense, but better on D is an option. (though maybe you could argue that if he also just doesn't take long 2s he is more low volume DeRozan than poor man's).
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,371
Palo Alto
I think it's way too early to say he can't shoot, he barely took any shots last year.

If he can't shoot 3s, but can get to the line like he did.... poor man's DeRozan on offense, but better on D is an option. (though maybe you could argue that if he also just doesn't take long 2s he is more low volume DeRozan than poor man's).
To be clear, I am not saying he can't, just that thus far it doesn't seem like he can and his college performance didn't indicate that either. Of course vastly improved shooting is common enough in the NBA, but in terms of "easy" developmental paths he might take I am not sure what he ends up looking like. Kris Dunn lite but larger?
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
18,991
To be clear, I am not saying he can't, just that thus far it doesn't seem like he can and his college performance didn't indicate that either. Of course vastly improved shooting is common enough in the NBA, but in terms of "easy" developmental paths he might take I am not sure what he ends up looking like. Kris Dunn lite but larger?
Not really to me, Dunn is a PG but also can't get to the rim. If he can't shoot 3s at all, he's a tough comp, most guys who can't shoot 3s don't get FTs either (Roberson types). Maybe he's DeMarre Carroll in the years where he doesn't hit his 3s.
 

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
11,078
on another note, I dIdn't realize Jerami and Jerian were Harvey's sons.
Can you imagine what a one-on-one between Harvey and a 16-year old Jerami would be like? Harvey was an NBA player, and I'm sure still had major a competitive mentality; no dad wants his son to whip him. But by then, 16-year old Jerami was pretty good and a superior athlete. I bet that would have been fun to watch.
 

tbrown_01923

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2006
564
I voted carsen as simply hitting 33% of his 3s is a huge jump - I don't think he will be a major contributor, but I think he overshoots his previuos performance by a large margin.

Did i get the rules wrong?
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
3,460
Grant has already proven that he can be counted on in key playoff moments. I see him as a steady rotation guy who improves incrementally the next couple of years.

I’m not too high on Romeo because he’s so damn brittle. As soon as he earns minutes, he gets injured.

I see Nesmith as a Tatum type who is confident in his offense and has the mental and physical makeup to be able to step in and contribute right away. I don’t expect him to be anywhere near Tatum’s rookie year level, but maybe somewhere between’s Jaylen and Jayson’s rookie year productivity
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
13,214
I voted carsen as simply hitting 33% of his 3s is a huge jump - I don't think he will be a major contributor, but I think he overshoots his previuos performance by a large margin.

Did i get the rules wrong?

yeah, it's who you want, not who you think.
 

Jimbodandy

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,437
around the way
I have to think it is Langford, as he would replace a lot of Hayward's overall production and minutes albeit with a different (and not quite yet as good) package---better defense, more slashing, less creating off the dribble, fewer threes. That is certainly their biggest gap.

For me, Nesmith is second---the high gravity gunner is a big missing piece.

I love me some Grant, but the upside from "best realistic Grant" is not as big a leap as the two above for me
Oh I agree. But I read it as who would I pick to make a leap/be ready out of the gate.

Which player would you pick to take the leap/be ready out of the gate that has less NBA experience than Tatum?

"Langford plus a leap from last year" or "better than expected Nesmith" is probably still not as valuable to this year's team as "year 2.5 Draymond" IMO. I do agree that ceiling Nesmith & ceiling Langford are better players, but I just don't see any scenario where either of those guys appears in a few weeks.
 

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,774
I voted for Tacko. I don't think it will happen because Brad doesn't have the stones to make it happen, but he can single-handedly change the nature of a game. Not for 30 minutes, but maybe for 15. He can completely screw up another team's offense, but the Celtics would have to design an offense to suit his game, and I don't see them doing that. If they invested in him, it could happen.
 

Zincman

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
213
New London
Langford has the most well rounded skill set and can become a versatile defender/scorer if helath is not an issue. Carries the most POTENTIAL value.