What’s rotten in Boston?

Sille Skrub

Dope
Dope
Mar 3, 2004
4,605
San Francisco, CA
What’s going here? I’ll give you Kyrie is crazy, but now this is two quality, professionals in a row leaving millions on the table to leave Boston.

This is an Eastern Conference finalist three out of the last four years. The future is supposedly so bright, with a budding potential top five player blossoming before our eyes.

What’s going on that guys are dropping out of here like flies? I’m perplexed by all of this.

Help me understand SoSH, you’re my only hope.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
18,080
What’s going here? I’ll give you Kyrie is crazy, but now this is two quality, professionals in a row leaving millions on the table to leave Boston.

This is an Eastern Conference finalist three out of the last four years. The future is supposedly so bright, with a budding potential top five player blossoming before our eyes.

What’s going on that guys are dropping out of here like flies? I’m perplexed by all of this.

Help me understand SoSH, you’re my only hope.
I mean... if you mean Hayward and Horford, the answer is they didn't leave millions on the table, they left (if Hayward does) for tens of millions of dollars more guaranteed money
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
9,279
Irving went to play in his hometown. Hayward seemingly wants to do the same (given that his family has moved to Indiana).
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
19,360
where I was last at
When Gordon first signed Al was the big, Kyrie the pg facilitator, and Gordo was the stud wing.

Enter the Js.

Gordo is not the stud wing anymore and maybe he didn't like the new dynamic or his perceived role for the next few years.
 

PC Drunken Friar

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 12, 2003
11,227
South Boston
When Gordon first signed Al was the big, Kyrie the pg facilitator, and Gordo was the stud wing.

Enter the Js.

Gordo is not the stud wing anymore and maybe he didn't like the new dynamic or his perceived role for the next few years.
I'd say that the security of of 4 guarenteed years worth of salary probably trumps the idea that he wanted to be some sort of alpha dog.
 

Euclis20

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
3,591
Imaginationland
When Gordon first signed Al was the big, Kyrie the pg facilitator, and Gordo was the stud wing.

Enter the Js.

Gordo is not the stud wing anymore and maybe he didn't like the new dynamic or his perceived role for the next few years.
Exactly. I don't think Hayward feels like he has to be the star, but at the moment he's their third most important wing going forward, and the team is arguably most effective with him coming off the bench and Smart starting. That's a tough pill to swallow.
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
6,928
Who are the 2 guys that left millions on the table to leave boston? If you mean horford and hayward they did exactly the opposite, staying in boston would have been leaving millions on the table
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
13,250
Guys, he is leaving for more money! Perhaps the chance to have a bigger role on the team helps make his decision to leave easier, but he is going to end up making more money somewhere else; just like Al. Nothing to see here.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
19,360
where I was last at
I'd say that the security of of 4 guarenteed years worth of salary probably trumps the idea that he wanted to be some sort of alpha dog.
Absolutely. But there is a big difference between 4 years for $100 million and 4 years for $150 million. I don't know what the Celts did or didn't offer, but with Jaylen making about $25 MM per for the next few years (and then maybe a max) and Jason making about $40+ million or so real soon, Gordo might have been odd wing out.
 
Last edited:

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,808
What’s going here? I’ll give you Kyrie is crazy, but now this is two quality, professionals in a row leaving millions on the table to leave Boston.

This is an Eastern Conference finalist three out of the last four years. The future is supposedly so bright, with a budding potential top five player blossoming before our eyes.

What’s going on that guys are dropping out of here like flies? I’m perplexed by all of this.

Help me understand SoSH, you’re my only hope.
This is entirely too premature. We don't know what's happening and why. This is like the people in the betting markets the evening of Nov. 3rd who shifted wildly towards Trump despite months and months of people explaining the nature of counting mail-in ballots.

edit: this is timely
View: https://twitter.com/Murf56/status/1329553728366661638?s=20
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
6,928
Also, it's almost always going to make sense for any good player to opt out. Anthony Davis opted out of his contract, does that mean there's something rotten in LA? No I think he's basically a lock to resign he just wanted more total money. When Al opted out I bet he thought he was opting out to resign in Boston too, then an offer no one expected came along and he took the money.

Whether he wanted to stay in Boston or not it made sense for Hayward to opt out unless he thinks he has absolutely no market at all, which we know isn't the case since multiple teams are interested in him.
 

Sille Skrub

Dope
Dope
Mar 3, 2004
4,605
San Francisco, CA
I guess if you look at under this lens, it’s not as bad:

Horford and Hayward left to get more money and more stability while they still could. They simply exercised their contractual right(s) to do so.

This still leaves somewhat of a bad taste in my mouth and is potentially a bad look for the franchise. It also sucks to lose Hayward, but even worse to lose the salary slot.

If he comes back, I will apologize for jumping the gun. However, I think he’s gone baby gone.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
18,080
Horford was a great move for the Celtics. They correctly pegged that he was slowing down and that his value would tank when his defensive ability on the perimeter did.
 

scottyno

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
6,928
I guess if you look at under this lens, it’s not as bad:

Horford and Hayward left to get more money and more stability while they still could. They simply exercised their contractual right(s) to do so.

This still leaves somewhat of a bad taste in my mouth and is potentially a bad look for the franchise. It also sucks to lose Hayward, but even worse to lose the salary slot.

If he comes back, I will apologize for jumping the gun. However, I think he’s gone baby gone.
What's the bad look? They wanted more total money, guys leave teams to get more money all the time. Horford never said a bad word about the Celtics and I doubt Hayward will either, in fact with Horford we saw the opposite, his family still praising boston and hating on philly now that he's gone.
 

Statman

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2005
939
Los Angeles, CA
Boston wanted Horford back, but just not at the amount that the Sixers threw at him ($100M over 4 years).

It would have been foolish for Horford to NOT accept that offer and if you follow his siblings on Twitter, they all loved being in Boston so I assumed Al felt the same way.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,155
around the way
I guess if you look at under this lens, it’s not as bad:

Horford and Hayward left to get more money and more stability while they still could. They simply exercised their contractual right(s) to do so.

This still leaves somewhat of a bad taste in my mouth and is potentially a bad look for the franchise. It also sucks to lose Hayward, but even worse to lose salary slot.
We hate to see people go, and we hate to see people choose to play somewhere else. Sometimes they retire due to age or injuries. Sometimes they just want that starting gig or huge payday somewhere else. It is never fun when we're attached to them and they go.

But in most cases, it's not about us. Sometimes it's about more money (Horford) or some kind of super-team (Kyrie) with his buds, or betting on yourself for a longer-team deal (Hayward).

Hell, a guy like Gordon has to appreciate more than most that every day on the court could be his last, and long-term security in dollars and years has to factor into his thinking. 34MM for one year is great. 100MM for four years (or whatever) is a big damn difference.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
9,299
The fact that Horford had to be salary dumped with 2 picks a year later tells you both he and the Celtics made the right decision (Horford to take the money, the Celtics not to prioritize keeping him).

The only thing rotten in the Horford situation was Elton Brand’s decision making.
 

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,808
I guess if you look at under this lens, it’s not as bad:

Horford and Hayward left to get more money and more stability while they still could. They simply exercised their contractual right(s) to do so.

This still leaves somewhat of a bad taste in my mouth and is potentially a bad look for the franchise. It also sucks to lose Hayward, but even worse to lose the salary slot.

If he comes back, I will apologize for jumping the gun. However, I think he’s gone baby gone.
Even excluding the jumping the gun resign part the rest is still wildly premature or inaccurate. Horford signed for way too much money and significantly more than Boston was offering. Is that a sign of something being rotten? It was like at least $20M more than Celtics reportedly would do. If Hayward signs for $80-100M and Ainge was offering $60 (or nothing on the extension front) is that a clear or even a vague sign that something is rotten?
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
13,906
Waltham, MA
What’s going here? I’ll give you Kyrie is crazy, but now this is two quality, professionals in a row leaving millions on the table to leave Boston.

This is an Eastern Conference finalist three out of the last four years. The future is supposedly so bright, with a budding potential top five player blossoming before our eyes.

What’s going on that guys are dropping out of here like flies? I’m perplexed by all of this.

Help me understand SoSH, you’re my only hope.
It's obvious, isn't it? Tatum is very difficult to get along with.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 10, 2017
1,954
Eh, I think it's a reach. Until the J's or Smart beg out before their contracts expire I think things are running perfectly smoothly with the Celtics. Free agency and player movement is just prevalent everywhere. Like look at the Heat for instance, their roster turnover may be even greater than Boston's throughout the 2010s. But they have the same management, same coach, and chug along to the next milestone.
 

benhogan

Granite is his new binky
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
9,335
Santa Monica
When Gordon first signed Al was the big, Kyrie the pg facilitator, and Gordo was the stud wing.

Enter the Js.

Gordo is not the stud wing anymore and maybe he didn't like the new dynamic or his perceived role for the next few years.
Don't worry Isiah, I haven't forgotten you
 

Minneapolis Millers

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,496
Twin Cities
The fact that Horford had to be salary dumped with 2 picks a year later tells you both he and the Celtics made the right decision (Horford to take the money, the Celtics not to prioritize keeping him).

The only thing rotten in the Horford situation was Elton Brand’s decision making.
Hayward seems similar, although I think his decline will be flatter, assuming decent health. I wouldn’t mind us resigning him at a far less than max deal. I’m not sure what we can offer other teams in a S&T that‘’s below a max deal.
 

ifmanis5

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2007
44,472
Rotten Apple
The Kyrie and Gordo situations are very different and I don't things are rotten here. Boston fans do love to tear down their own franchises, though.
I would say that Danny does have a league-wide rep for being ruthless and trading anybody at anytime. It's possible that reputation spawns less loyalty from players than maybe you normally might expect but most high end players are multi-platform brands that plot self-serving strategies for themselves first, team second anyway. All that said, landing KD would have been sweet.
 

Pilgrim

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 24, 2006
2,200
Jamaica Plain
Judging by Horford's family surrogates, they loved Boston and hated Philly. These mostly seem like straight money decisions. I think Hayward flat out thinks he can make more opting out, or play where his family currently lives in one case. Boston itself is a C tier FA destination, but that is a separate issue.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
7,185
Guy has to think he is one bad landing away from being done. Better to get another multiyear deal done.
Putting a ton of money into him seems a bit of a risk at the moment, no? He's been good but not great since the injury and him being injured in the playoffs hurt the Celts a bit....both in having to play without him and then having to try and figure out getting him back in after he came back.
 

Euclis20

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
3,591
Imaginationland
He was a borderline all-star this year, and that was as the 4th option. Once you get past Davis and Ingram, both of whom likely aren't going anywhere, Hayward is arguably the best player available. It is a weak, weak class, and his versatility makes him a good fit with just about any team in the league (sadly Boston is much lower on that list, as we are one of the few teams with two young 2-way studs at wing). Multiple teams will be happy to invest big money, injuries or not.