What's left this off season?

Jed Zeppelin

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Was hoping Begarin would stick around too to get a dev guy in the room at all three positions. Excited about his progress, you want your best prospects to look like the best players on the floor in SL. A lot to work with there and drafting actual NBA players with only 2nd round picks would be an amazing additional feather in POBOBS’ cap.

It’s just SL but if he can pick up the rotations on D Kabengele can absolutely hang and do some Theis-like things, ideally with better shooting and less ref hatred. He is bulkier and, I hope, a little better able to hold his own. I suspect he’ll have a tough time getting switched onto NBA guards but that’s true of most bigs and he seems to move his feet fairly well at least.
 

128

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This, from Jay King's latest in The Athletic, is a little surprising. Maybe the C's see Hauser and Ryan as redundant.

Matt Ryan, a Celtics summer-league standout who finished last season as the team’s other two-way contract player, now sounds less likely to return to Boston. He has fully recovered from a summer ankle injury, according to a league source.

https://theathletic.com/3472316/2022/08/03/boston-celtics-roster-training-camp/
 

Eddie Jurak

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This, from Jay King's latest in The Athletic, is a little surprising. Maybe the C's see Hauser and Ryan as redundant.

Matt Ryan, a Celtics summer-league standout who finished last season as the team’s other two-way contract player, now sounds less likely to return to Boston. He has fully recovered from a summer ankle injury, according to a league source.

https://theathletic.com/3472316/2022/08/03/boston-celtics-roster-training-camp/
I think seeing 2 fringe prospects as redundant would be a mistake - since there are no guarantees about either one, keeping both gives a better chance to hit on one.

This seems more like a case where the Celtics aren't willing to go beyond a 2-way and Ryan can do better elsewhere. Or, Ryan would take a 2-way but the Celtics don't have a slot right now.
 

mcpickl

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This, from Jay King's latest in The Athletic, is a little surprising. Maybe the C's see Hauser and Ryan as redundant.

Matt Ryan, a Celtics summer-league standout who finished last season as the team’s other two-way contract player, now sounds less likely to return to Boston. He has fully recovered from a summer ankle injury, according to a league source.

https://theathletic.com/3472316/2022/08/03/boston-celtics-roster-training-camp/
I doubt this is a case of the Celtics thinking Ryan/Hauser are redundant.

My guess is they invited Ryan to camp, but he's looking to find some guaranteed money out there somewhere first. For a guy that was working as a delivery guy just over a year ago, I'd imagine he'd take any guaranteed money just about anywhere in the world right now.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It feels like the worst consequence of letting a player like Ryan go is that sometime during the dog days of the NBA season (January through March) when load management is in full effect, Ryan goes like 10-14 from deep for the Heat/Thunder/Jazz etc and Cs fans get bitter online.

Its hard to see the Cs regretting letting him go during the meaningful part of the season but per the great philosopher Kevin Garnett anything is possible.
 

Cellar-Door

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They seem to like redundancy given the Vonleh/Cabocolo/Kabengele/Kornet backup center grouping.
mostly camp deals, they won't all make the final roster.

Ryan is at best a deep bench JAG, he's a 26 year old with limited upside, I don't want them burning a roster spot on him if they can help it
 

Strike4

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It feels like the worst consequence of letting a player like Ryan go is that sometime during the dog days of the NBA season (January through March) when load management is in full effect, Ryan goes like 10-14 from deep for the Heat/Thunder/Jazz etc and Cs fans get bitter online.

Its hard to see the Cs regretting letting him go during the meaningful part of the season but per the great philosopher Kevin Garnett anything is possible.
He's definitely capable of that, I was at this game and he was AWESOME. One of the best ones I've been to in a few years.
 

benhogan

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It wouldn't shock me if Brad started the season with 14 on the roster w/ Davidson* being 1 of the 14.

Brad could replace JD's two-way slot + add one of Vonleh or Bruno to the roster

Then wait to sign #15 during the buyout window (or potentially use a TPE to get what they want before that)

I'm not advocating this, but it is a way to save a few $$$ if they have reached Wyc's threshold. Brad may want to allocate the last few bullets for a potentially better back-up 5 in Jan/Feb


*In addition to the other players fighting for a roster spot, Davison’s situation is one to monitor. Though Davison is currently signed to a two-way contract, the Celtics could save a bit of money by converting him to a standard NBA deal. For luxury-tax purposes, a minimum salary for him would count as roughly half the salary of another player because of Davison’s status as a drafted rookie. Those savings could matter given the tax bill the Celtics are projected to incur, but ownership has insisted it will spend without limitations this season.
 

lexrageorge

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It wouldn't shock me if Brad started the season with 14 on the roster w/ Davidson* being 1 of the 14.

Brad could replace JD's two-way slot + add one of Vonleh or Bruno to the roster

Then wait to sign #15 during the buyout window (or potentially use a TPE to get what they want before that)

I'm not advocating this, but it is a way to save a few $$$ if they have reached Wyc's threshold. Brad may want to allocate the last few bullets for a potentially better back-up 5 in Jan/Feb


*In addition to the other players fighting for a roster spot, Davison’s situation is one to monitor. Though Davison is currently signed to a two-way contract, the Celtics could save a bit of money by converting him to a standard NBA deal. For luxury-tax purposes, a minimum salary for him would count as roughly half the salary of another player because of Davison’s status as a drafted rookie. Those savings could matter given the tax bill the Celtics are projected to incur, but ownership has insisted it will spend without limitations this season.
this seems to be basically a rounding error in terms of the team's total payroll and should be treated as such. Keeping Davidson as a 2-way gives him a chance to develop and seems more important than worrying about the luxury tax implications of having one Matt Ryan on the roster.
 

benhogan

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this seems to be basically a rounding error in terms of the team's total payroll and should be treated as such. Keeping Davidson as a 2-way gives him a chance to develop and seems more important than worrying about the luxury tax implications of having one Matt Ryan on the roster.
I think the multiplier is 3.5X so every $$$ counts. Ownership claims there are no limitations but being practical isn't the worst quality

JD Davidson's development would not be impacted if he's on a two-way or on the 15-man roster. He will shuttle back and forth between Boston/Maine no matter where he resides on the roster.

Over cap teams can make decent use out of 2nd round picks with basically 17 spots these days.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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this seems to be basically a rounding error in terms of the team's total payroll and should be treated as such. Keeping Davidson as a 2-way gives him a chance to develop and seems more important than worrying about the luxury tax implications of having one Matt Ryan on the roster.
Having Davidson on a 2-way allows him to develop and then go somewhere he can play next season if he makes a leap. The value of drafting 2nd rounders with upside is to lock them up on a multi-year deal with the 3rd yr at least being a team option so if they do develop we get rewarded. Having JD on a 2-way doesn’t make much sense at all to me.
 

benhogan

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Having Davidson on a 2-way allows him to develop and then go somewhere he can play next season if he makes a leap. The value of drafting 2nd rounders with upside is to lock them up on a multi-year deal with the 3rd yr at least being a team option so if they do develop we get rewarded. Having JD on a 2-way doesn’t make much sense at all to me.
Yep, Brad will use 2nd rounders + AAAA seasoned G-Leaguers on 2yr deals (2nd yr non-gtd) to fill out #13-17 (#16/17 Two-ways are basically cheap NBA slots). Don't expect veteran, ring-chasing, 30yr olds to populate the end of the roster

One of the better outcomes would be some development from Begarin/Davidson so they could be used for future trade bait

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/8/5/23286366/dealing-future-firsts-extends-the-title-window-brad-stevens-derrick-white-malcolm-brogdon
 

Cellar-Door

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Yep, Brad will use 2nd rounders + AAAA seasoned G-Leaguers on 2yr deals (2nd yr non-gtd) to fill out #13-17 (#16/17 Two-ways are basically cheap NBA slots). Don't expect veteran, ring-chasing, 30yr olds to populate the end of the roster

One of the better outcomes would be some development from Begarin/Davidson so they could be used for future trade bait

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/8/5/23286366/dealing-future-firsts-extends-the-title-window-brad-stevens-derrick-white-malcolm-brogdon
15 is gonna be empty is my guess. That's the "we aren't playing 17 guys, and we might want to add a buyout, so let's save the owners a bunch of money" slot.
 

Swedgin

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I think the multiplier is 3.5X so every $$$ counts. Ownerships claims there are no limitations but being practical isn't the worst quality

JD's Davidson's development would not be impacted one iota if he's on a two-way or on the 15-man roster. He will shuttle back and forth between Boston/Maine no matter where he resides.

Over cap teams can make decent use out of 2nd round picks with basically 17 spots these days.
Exactly. The rookie minimum is just over 1M. The minimum for a guy with 1 year of experience is 1.6M, 2 years is 1.8M. Given the tax multiples the Celtics' face (3.25-3.5), the value of JD versus a non-rookie occupying a roster spot is between 2M and 2.6M. Brad would need to have a really convincing case that the vet he wants in that 14th roster spot versus JD is going to materially impact the Celtics title chances. Same concept with leaving the 15th roster spot vacant.
 

TripleOT

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Didn’t JDD sign his two way deal before he played well in Vegas? Assuming he looks like an NBA player, he should earn a 2nd round guaranteed deal that locks him up for low money. I actually see him getting minutes this season, probably garbage time mop up duty on nights when other guards are out due to injury and he dresses.
 

lovegtm

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Didn’t JDD sign his two way deal before he played well in Vegas? Assuming he looks like an NBA player, he should earn a 2nd round guaranteed deal that locks him up for low money. I actually see him getting minutes this season, probably garbage time mop up duty on nights when other guards are out due to injury and he dresses.
Yeah, seems like a clear "lock him up for very low 4-year money rather than do RFA in a year" type guy.
 

RG33

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He's definitely capable of that, I was at this game and he was AWESOME. One of the best ones I've been to in a few years.
This struck me as the least impressive 37 point performance I have seen in awhile based on those highlights. He just didn’t look like a classic, smooth “shooter” to me by the eye-test (which may be shit, I know). A lucky bank shot, a lucky fallaway 3 at the buzzer, 2-3 rattled in 3-pointers, and a couple of leaning-in 3-pointers that feel like they would be blocked in an NBA game. There were definitely 3-4 spot-up knockdown 3’s that looked crisp, and a bunch of layups, but this looked like a gym rat that had a hot night and not a legit NBA deep threat to me.

I could be totally wrong.
 

brendan f

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Having Davidson on a 2-way allows him to develop and then go somewhere he can play next season if he makes a leap. The value of drafting 2nd rounders with upside is to lock them up on a multi-year deal with the 3rd yr at least being a team option so if they do develop we get rewarded. Having JD on a 2-way doesn’t make much sense at all to me.
The initial two-way gives the team more options; he can always be converted to a standard contract at the team's discretion. All the team needs is an open roster spot, which should not be a problem for the Celtics. Also, not to be a pedant, but can we just be clear that the name is Davison?
 

chilidawg

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Nice look here at what Kabengele, Caboclo and Vonleh might bring to the table.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/8/11/23297918/big-man-training-camp-battle-highlander-boston-celtics-mfiondu-kabengele-noah-vonleh-bruno-caboclo

Overall, there is scope for each of Kabengele, Vonleh, and Caboclo to earn spots within the rotation in the coming season, and given the diversity in their skillsets, you can talk yourself into each of them impressing enough to warrant a closer look. However, in reality, Kabengele and Vonleh are both better suited to making an impact in the coming season, whereas Caboclo is more of an insurance policy.

Still, given the direct competition for the backup center position, I can see the Celtics opting to move forward with Kabengele on his two-way deal and the potential to convert the contract down the line, and the versatility that comes with a tweener such as Caboclo. Meaning Vonleh could be the player to miss out on a return to the NBA this season.
 

benhogan

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There was some SL growth

holding off with starting his clock will be helpful as a trade asset or cheap bench player for future seasons.

This roster will continue to get more expensive w/Grant ext and Brown ext/FA

Thanks for posting. I have always liked Valentine more than his game really deserves; I doubt he makes the cut, but interesting as a camp body at least.
yea I'm guilty of the same with Valentine. He always appears to be a long-limbed, plus-defender.

Michigan State days probably cloud the memory
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Thanks for posting. I have always liked Valentine more than his game really deserves; I doubt he makes the cut, but interesting as a camp body at least.
Valentine was with Maine last year and hit 36% on 32-89 (7.4 3PA/game), which by coincidence is the same as his NBA career percentage.

However, in the NBA last year he went 19-47 on 3Ps (.404) with CLE and UT. Obviously, a lot of whether he will be able to earn a roster spot will depend on whether he's improved his 3P shooting.

If anyone's interested, I ran across this interview with him back in March when he was at Maine: https://maine.gleague.nba.com/news/full-timeout-033022/. Nothing terribly exciting but he did mention some Portland restaurants he has been to.
 

Swedgin

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Valentine was with Maine last year and hit 36% on 32-89 (7.4 3PA/game), which by coincidence is the same as his NBA career percentage.

However, in the NBA last year he went 19-47 on 3Ps (.404) with CLE and UT. Obviously, a lot of whether he will be able to earn a roster spot will depend on whether he's improved his 3P shooting.

If anyone's interested, I ran across this interview with him back in March when he was at Maine: https://maine.gleague.nba.com/news/full-timeout-033022/. Nothing terribly exciting but he did mention some Portland restaurants he has been to.
He's always looked like he should be a defender than he shows in games. I am generally a fan of taking flyers on first round picks who started their careers in bad organizations like the Boylen-era Bulls. But the fact that a wing starved team like the Cavs did not retain him, is a damper on any optimism for him as a second draft candidate.
 

JM3

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Jake Layman...

Pros:
Born in MA

Cons:
Not good at basketball
 

PedroKsBambino

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This was a bit puzzling to me---I get the desire for wing depth, but adding someone who can't shoot really doesn't seem to address any gap I can see.

Camp body so what I guess?

Number three similar on craftednba.com? Romeo Langord. Number 7? Aaron Nesmith.

https://craftednba.com/players/jake-layman
 

RSN Diaspora

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Both have a unusually handsome pizza boy.
You can imagine where it goes from here.

He fixes the cable?

Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey.

On a different topic, MassLive's beat reporter Brian Robb is saying the 'Melo rumors aren't likely to come to fruition: "The Carmelo Anthony buzz was a hot topic this week after the rumors started swirling about the Celtics’ interest in him last week. However, multiple league sources tell MassLive that the Celtics are not expected to have interest in bringing in the veteran for a signing ahead of training camp. That’s not to say the team is done shaping the roster ahead of the preseason but Anthony isn’t a priority at this point at names that could be brought in. Boston likes a lot of their internal replacement options from what I’ve heard and want to give those names the first crack at minutes."

I know not everyone is sold on 'Melo as a bench guy in Boston, but he sure seems to be the best replacement available for Gallinari.
 

Smokey Joe

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You can imagine where it goes from here.

He fixes the cable?

Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey.

On a different topic, MassLive's beat reporter Brian Robb is saying the 'Melo rumors aren't likely to come to fruition: "The Carmelo Anthony buzz was a hot topic this week after the rumors started swirling about the Celtics’ interest in him last week. However, multiple league sources tell MassLive that the Celtics are not expected to have interest in bringing in the veteran for a signing ahead of training camp. That’s not to say the team is done shaping the roster ahead of the preseason but Anthony isn’t a priority at this point at names that could be brought in. Boston likes a lot of their internal replacement options from what I’ve heard and want to give those names the first crack at minutes."

I know not everyone is sold on 'Melo as a bench guy in Boston, but he sure seems to be the best replacement available for Gallinari.
The fork sticking out of his back is so big that he could set screens with it.
 

Cellar-Door

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On a different topic, MassLive's beat reporter Brian Robb is saying the 'Melo rumors aren't likely to come to fruition: "The Carmelo Anthony buzz was a hot topic this week after the rumors started swirling about the Celtics’ interest in him last week. However, multiple league sources tell MassLive that the Celtics are not expected to have interest in bringing in the veteran for a signing ahead of training camp. That’s not to say the team is done shaping the roster ahead of the preseason but Anthony isn’t a priority at this point at names that could be brought in. Boston likes a lot of their internal replacement options from what I’ve heard and want to give those names the first crack at minutes."

I know not everyone is sold on 'Melo as a bench guy in Boston, but he sure seems to be the best replacement available for Gallinari.
I mean the problem with Melo as a replacement for Gallo is he's worse, on both ends. Adding a scorer/shooter who is below average on D is one thing, adding a less good scorer/shooter who is worse on D is a different equation. Gallo was a guy that they decided "yeah his offense offsets his D" but Melo's offense is worse, his rebounding is worse, his defense is worse, so the balance changes from "potentially positive" to "likely negative"
 

sezwho

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I mean the problem with Melo as a replacement for Gallo is he's worse, on both ends. Adding a scorer/shooter who is below average on D is one thing, adding a less good scorer/shooter who is worse on D is a different equation. Gallo was a guy that they decided "yeah his offense offsets his D" but Melo's offense is worse, his rebounding is worse, his defense is worse, so the balance changes from "potentially positive" to "likely negative"
Perhaps this is an oversimplification, but isn’t worse about what we could expect?

They are unenviably trying to find a Gallo replacement (so already not the first choice) but now for much less $ and after almost all free agents have found a home.

Perhaps it makes sense for roster construction to sign someone who is a little worse at both ends, rather than someone who is better at one or the other.
 

Cellar-Door

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Perhaps this is an oversimplification, but isn’t worse about what we could expect?

They are unenviably trying to find a Gallo replacement (so already not the first choice) but now for much less $ and after almost all free agents have found a home.

Perhaps it makes sense for roster construction to sign someone who is a little worse at both ends, rather than someone who is better at one of the other.
There are breaking points though, yes you would expect a replacement for Gallo to be worse, but there is a point where worse is not better than what you have, and the defensive skillset is so poor that it breaks the system and costs you more than the player could reasonably make up on offense. My read is that they see Melo (who has been bad in recent years but getting points on bad teams), as a guy who just doesn't bring positive value to the bench units, so they'll sniff around some defensive swings/bigs, give Hauser a longer look, and maybe look for the scoring in the trade/buyout markets later.
 

benhogan

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The NBA season is a marathon. They have plenty of time to shape up the deep bench.

Give Hauser a look as the 11th man, all indications are that Brad thinks he has some upside. Zero need to add Melo

If necessary, backfill at the trade deadline with buyouts or use TPEs to attain players from teams looking to get under the cap.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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This was a bit puzzling to me---I get the desire for wing depth, but adding someone who can't shoot really doesn't seem to address any gap I can see.

Camp body so what I guess?

Number three similar on craftednba.com? Romeo Langord. Number 7? Aaron Nesmith.

https://craftednba.com/players/jake-layman
Hey Layman's similarities scores include Dame and Kemba (on defense :cool: ). More seriously, his defensive similarity scores include Dame, Kemba, Ish Smith, Hayward, and Mikal Bridges - that seems like a pretty wide range of results..

It's hard for me to imagine how Layman shoots 30% from 3P line through his career. I think everyone expected him to shoot better than that. Maybe Grant can hook him up with Lethal Shooter or something.
 

128

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I think I'd rather have Yabusele than Layman. Yabu appears to have developed a consistent 3-point shot. He helped France beat Gallo-less Italy today to reach the EuroBasket 2022 semifinals.