What's left this off season?

benhogan

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Wouldn’t Willy Hernangomez for PP be a pretty fair deal for both sides? No idea about his defense but he averaged 9 and 7 in 17 MPG last year and is on a modest deal over the next 2 years.

Not sure if New Orleans would accept that deal but it seems workable.
My first reaction was yuck, but probably due to a residual bias towards his brother? Willy could probably fill the role on the cheap. He's clearly better than Luke Kornet. Can score. Big body 5 that can absorb blows from the other big-bodied 5s from around the league

Brad has a bushel of 2nd round picks next season, 3 roster spots and a plethora of TPEs. NOLA may have a bit of a roster crunch with their draft picks and Zions' return.

I don't think you need to trade Payton unless it's for a better bench Center
PP was the best 3pt shooter post All-Star game last season. After a bunch of playoff experience, I'd rather Brad kept him than waste him on Willy

Everyone likes the fun lazy guy. I saw him dog in Utah many nights coming off the bench and playing. Why would he come here to not play and be a positive energy guy? He sure doesn’t fit any part of our system on either end of the floor.
then Whiteside's efficiency lines in over 1100 minutes of "lazy play" were damn good. Just imagine if IME's no-nonsense style of play got Hassan to play with effort.

Granted he may not be a fit here, and the odds are long he ends up in Green, but the guy played very well last season as a backup BIG for the 5th ranked WC team.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whiteha01.html
 

Eddie Jurak

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Unpopular opinion: it won’t be the end of the world if the Celtics open with Kornet logging meaningful minutes as the #3 C behind Al and Rob in the regular season. He does a couple of things decently and the ready of the team is so good.

(It would kill them in the playoffs).
 
Jan 22, 2006
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Unpopular opinion: it won’t be the end of the world if the Celtics open with Kornet logging meaningful minutes as the #3 C behind Al and Rob in the regular season. He does a couple of things decently and the ready of the team is so good.

(It would kill them in the playoffs).
I agree. We have 6+ months to fix the 3rd center hole.
 

benhogan

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Unpopular opinion: it won’t be the end of the world if the Celtics open with Kornet logging meaningful minutes as the #3 C behind Al and Rob in the regular season. He does a couple of things decently and the ready of the team is so good.

(It would kill them in the playoffs).
If we have learned anything from last season, its how unimportant the first half of the NBA regular season is...

We've also seen decent players overplay their hands and be left with few options to find an NBA spot (Dennis Schroeder)

Boston could go into the season with Kornet as the 3rd string Center. BUT Brad has 3 coveted NBA roster spots available. There will be more Centers floating around between now and opening night. Some rebuilders will get drunk on their Summer League players and/or draft picks. Vets will be waived (see Roby) or offered for peanuts (2nds)
 

Fishy1

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Unpopular opinion: it won’t be the end of the world if the Celtics open with Kornet logging meaningful minutes as the #3 C behind Al and Rob in the regular season. He does a couple of things decently and the ready of the team is so good.

(It would kill them in the playoffs).
Agreed. He moves the ball well and will block some shots. He can't guard the perimeter or shoot anymore, but I'll take the passing and the halfway decent rim protection for ten minutes a night if that's the way she goes.
 

JM3

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Aldridge is completely cooked and below replacement level. I don't see any reason to expect better play from him than from Luke Kornet going forward.
I mean, you can say those words, but nothing really supports it statistically.

LMA played 20 mpg for a playoff team & the team was (a tiny bit) better when he was on the Court.

LMA scored 607 points last year. Kornet has scored 807 in his 5 year career. LMA had 258 rebounds. Kornet has 309 rebounds in his career.

Aldridge shot 55% last season. Kornet has shot 41% in his career.

LMA is certainly quite washed up - but unlike Kornet he's an actual NBA player who can be part of an NBA rotation & be higher on the depth chart than a 13th man.
 

the moops

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3rd string centers are almost always terrible. Look around the league. GSW has Wiseman, ATL doesn't even have one, DEN has DeAndre Jordan as 2nd center, MIL has Ibaka, etc.

The likely BOS scenario is they play a little less two bigs and play Grant and Tatum at the 4 more often with one of Al or TL. And if one or both of those guys are missing time you go with Kornet and you lose a few extra games and wait until deadline and after for buyout guys
 

Jimbodandy

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I mean, you can say those words, but nothing really supports it statistically.

LMA played 20 mpg for a playoff team & the team was (a tiny bit) better when he was on the Court.

LMA scored 607 points last year. Kornet has scored 807 in his 5 year career. LMA had 258 rebounds. Kornet has 309 rebounds in his career.

Aldridge shot 55% last season. Kornet has shot 41% in his career.

LMA is certainly quite washed up - but unlike Kornet he's an actual NBA player who can be part of an NBA rotation & be higher on the depth chart than a 13th man.
I think that you're underestimating how bad Aldrige is. He had a 1000 minutes last year of 0.7 BPM. His DARKO is negative. Sure, he's a name and has had a nice career, but all that he showed last year is that taking up space is the last skill to deteriorate.

He didn't get off the bench for a team that was swept.
 

JM3

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I think that you're underestimating how bad Aldrige is. He had a 1000 minutes last year of 0.7 BPM. His DARKO is negative. Sure, he's a name and has had a nice career, but all that he showed last year is that taking up space is the last skill to deteriorate.

He didn't get off the bench for a team that was swept.
All of that can be, & is, true. & he can still fill out the rotation much better than Kornet, & isn't a bad option if the only acquisition cost is the veteran minimum.

You don't have to be good to be able to eat minutes better than Kornet. I also mentioned we probably need another minimum guy as well if he's the addition.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I mean, you can say those words, but nothing really supports it statistically.

LMA played 20 mpg for a playoff team & the team was (a tiny bit) better when he was on the Court.

LMA scored 607 points last year. Kornet has scored 807 in his 5 year career. LMA had 258 rebounds. Kornet has 309 rebounds in his career.

Aldridge shot 55% last season. Kornet has shot 41% in his career.

LMA is certainly quite washed up - but unlike Kornet he's an actual NBA player who can be part of an NBA rotation & be higher on the depth chart than a 13th man.
Yeah he’s that pre-total corpse version of Haslem who would be fine in that role and has a great understanding of NBA schemes and nuances. I’d be fine with LMA in the Kornet role too.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think of the guys discussed:

1. Whiteside is clearly a good backup C, he produces positive value on both ends. His fit on offense might be shaky given his lack of passing, but on defense he can be a poor man's TL in roaming off non-shooters, and on offense he is a willing and capable roll man.
2. LMA.... pretty cooked on D, has a bit left on offense, not a great fit on either end
3, Kornet- looked like a capable defender, negative on offense, mostly filler.

My guess is we wait it out, in part because Whiteside is likely waiting out PHX, where he could start if Ayton leaves
 

ManicCompression

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Depending on where Utah goes this year, what about trying to trade for Vanderbilt as a rotation big? Would that take more than a couple of seconds or Begarin+?
 

Devizier

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Yeah he’s that pre-total corpse version of Haslem who would be fine in that role and has a great understanding of NBA schemes and nuances. I’d be fine with LMA in the Kornet role too.
Same. Aldridge is the kind of guy the Celtics are realistically looking at. He can provide just enough spacing to be a serviceable Horford spot/emergency fill in and isn’t a total zero on defense. For 500-1000 minutes he is pretty close to the best you can hope for.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah I'm seemingly focused on all of these guys' warts. We've had a half dozen guys advocated for here in the last couple of days, including LMA, Whiteside, some guys who have since signed, some Euro dudes, etc.

Overall folks are saying that Kornet isn't enough, and that's fair and almost certainly correct. Imo the questions then are 1. is it worth waiting until events unfold and a better big is available via an exception as part of a bigger KD/KI style deal, or 2. if we don't want to wait, which cheap big is the right one.

I'm being won over to group 2 with this thread, even if none of these guys is compelling. But I won't be bummed if PBS continues the waiting game.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah I'm seemingly focused on all of these guys' warts. We've had a half dozen guys advocated for here in the last couple of days, including LMA, Whiteside, some guys who have since signed, some Euro dudes, etc.

Overall folks are saying that Kornet isn't enough, and that's fair and almost certainly correct. Imo the questions then are 1. is it worth waiting until events unfold and a better big is available via an exception as part of a bigger KD/KI style deal, or 2. if we don't want to wait, which cheap big is the right one.

I'm being won over to group 2 with this thread, even if none of these guys is compelling. But I won't be bummed if PBS continues the waiting game.
This feels like one of those roster decisions that the forum is more fixated on than the actual team. Its highly likely that whomever the player winds up being, they will play enough minutes to tantalize some into thinking that they should get more run but as the season unfolds, it will be clear why they were available in the first place.

This decision certainly doesn't feel like it will determine whether banner 18 gets hoisted or not but maybe losing out on the Bryant sweepstakes means they are hosed.
 

bakahump

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What about old friend Jabari Parker? Doesnt looke like he played last year....soooo.....hes available.
 

Cellar-Door

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Fun comp of the Kornet and the 5 "best" FA centers.
DARKO would say that Kornet, Whiteside and maybe Cousins are likely the 3 contenders. LMA and Dwight are in free-fall.

Also interesting.... one of the consistent Kornet comps on DARKO..... Daniel Theis.

Edit- hmm for some reason linking to the image didn't work?
53015
 

Fishy1

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What about old friend Jabari Parker? Doesnt looke like he played last year....soooo.....hes available.
Can't tell if you're kidding.

He played for us last year... and played a minor role before getting benched and eventually released after about the 1000th failure to hustle or give good defensive effort.
 

JM3

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Yeah I'm seemingly focused on all of these guys' warts. We've had a half dozen guys advocated for here in the last couple of days, including LMA, Whiteside, some guys who have since signed, some Euro dudes, etc.

Overall folks are saying that Kornet isn't enough, and that's fair and almost certainly correct. Imo the questions then are 1. is it worth waiting until events unfold and a better big is available via an exception as part of a bigger KD/KI style deal, or 2. if we don't want to wait, which cheap big is the right one.

I'm being won over to group 2 with this thread, even if none of these guys is compelling. But I won't be bummed if PBS continues the waiting game.
I think it can be both - signing a center to the vet minimum doesn't preclude getting another guy to bump that guy down to 4th on the depth chart later.

We still have several roster spots available I believe.
 

JM3

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Fun comp of the Kornet and the 5 "best" FA centers.
DARKO would say that Kornet, Whiteside and maybe Cousins are likely the 3 contenders. LMA and Dwight are in free-fall.

Also interesting.... one of the consistent Kornet comps on DARKO..... Daniel Theis.

Edit- hmm for some reason linking to the image didn't work?
View attachment 53015
How good is DARKO at adjusting for ~all of a player's 100 minutes being in garbage time?
 

Cellar-Door

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How good is DARKO at adjusting for ~all of a player's 100 minutes being in garbage time?
not sure. Kornet is going to have sample size problems. My general point was more that other than Whiteside, all of these guys aren't particularly good, Kornet is at least younger and has some indication of possibility of improvement where the others are already well into a steep decline. 19-20 is interesting to look at, because he got a bunch of starts, and that's where his improvement really starts to show.
 

JM3

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not sure. Kornet is going to have sample size problems. My general point was more that other than Whiteside, all of these guys aren't particularly good, Kornet is at least younger and has some indication of possibility of improvement where the others are already well into a steep decline. 19-20 is interesting to look at, because he got a bunch of starts, and that's where his improvement really starts to show.
He started 14 games that season & played 15.5 minutes per game for 36 games.

I just don't really see anything in his profile that shows he's likely to ever be an actual rotation big, & I think he would be exposed if he ever played real minutes.

Kind of like a poor man's version of how advanced metrics always loved Ed Davis but actual NBA teams never wanted him to play more than 20 minutes a game.
 

JM3

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Looks like the Bulls were tanking when they started Kornet for 14 games toward the end of the season. Went 4-10. He never had more than 1 block in any of those games. He did have a 25 point, 2 rebound game where he fouled out (& a 12/9 game where they won by 1 point).
 

Cellar-Door

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He started 14 games that season & played 15.5 minutes per game for 36 games.

I just don't really see anything in his profile that shows he's likely to ever be an actual rotation big, & I think he would be exposed if he ever played real minutes.

Kind of like a poor man's version of how advanced metrics always loved Ed Davis but actual NBA teams never wanted him to play more than 20 minutes a game.
I mean, Theis played 18MPG last year... and even that is skewed by a bunch of late games with no TL, that's the kind of role we're looking at... 5 MPG when healthy, maybe 15-20 when TL is out.

I don't think he should be the full solution, BUT... I think if I'm starting the year looking at these guys, Kornet is the one I want over LMA or Dwight, or even Cousins. If I can get Whiteside, or trade cheap for someone legit... sure. My point is, Kornet is on the roster and likely to give you the same as those guys in limited minutes, if we need more than that it's going to have to be a trade or buyout, because LMA and Dwight showed themselves to be legit unplayable vs. real competition last year... it's not an accident that when the Nets desperately needed anything from a big late last year and in the playoffs they were going to Blake Griffin over LMA, he's 100% toast on D.
 

Fishy1

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I mean, Theis played 18MPG last year... and even that is skewed by a bunch of late games with no TL, that's the kind of role we're looking at... 5 MPG when healthy, maybe 15-20 when TL is out.

I don't think he should be the full solution, BUT... I think if I'm starting the year looking at these guys, Kornet is the one I want over LMA or Dwight, or even Cousins. If I can get Whiteside, or trade cheap for someone legit... sure. My point is, Kornet is on the roster and likely to give you the same as those guys in limited minutes, if we need more than that it's going to have to be a trade or buyout, because LMA and Dwight showed themselves to be legit unplayable vs. real competition last year... it's not an accident that when the Nets desperately needed anything from a big late last year and in the playoffs they were going to Blake Griffin over LMA, he's 100% toast on D.
Agreed. We don't need Kornet to light it up from three point land in fifteen minutes every few games. We need him to be competent defensively, know the offense, and pass the ball. He'll do that just fine, and will be happy to ride the bench the rest of the time. The guy is serviceable.

If we come away with someone better, or if we want to sign someone else to compete with him for minutes, I'd be happy with that. But Kornet will do just fine if it comes down to it. There will definitely be buyouts available later in the season who will outplay him too.

It's not going to make or break our season. If Horford or TL go down for a long time, that's rough, but we weren't going to get Thomas Bryant and we probably won't get Whiteside either.
 

JM3

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I mean, Theis played 18MPG last year... and even that is skewed by a bunch of late games with no TL, that's the kind of role we're looking at... 5 MPG when healthy, maybe 15-20 when TL is out.

I don't think he should be the full solution, BUT... I think if I'm starting the year looking at these guys, Kornet is the one I want over LMA or Dwight, or even Cousins. If I can get Whiteside, or trade cheap for someone legit... sure. My point is, Kornet is on the roster and likely to give you the same as those guys in limited minutes, if we need more than that it's going to have to be a trade or buyout, because LMA and Dwight showed themselves to be legit unplayable vs. real competition last year... it's not an accident that when the Nets desperately needed anything from a big late last year and in the playoffs they were going to Blake Griffin over LMA, he's 100% toast on D.
I thought LMA was mostly knocked out of the rotation due to his hip injury. How healthy he is would definitely be a big factor.

I have no interest in Howard, but would feel much more comfortable if Kornet is the 4th or 5th center than the 3rd.

I'm not in a huge rush & I trust whatever Stevens decides, but I would be pretty shocked if Kornet played competently in a regular role for an extended period of time.
 

Jimbodandy

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I would be pretty shocked if Kornet played competently in a regular role for an extended period of time.
I don't think that you're going to get an argument here on that whatsoever. I'm not sure that the Kornet family would disagree.

Question is whether those other guys would clear that bar.
 

JM3

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I don't think that you're going to get an argument here on that whatsoever. I'm not sure that the Kornet family would disagree.

Question is whether those other guys would clear that bar.
I guess it depends on your definition of competence. My bar is pretty low. I would say LMA played competently last year.

I would sat Whiteside played very competently/pretty well.

& I'm excited for the MFIONDU era of competence (patent pending).
 

nighthob

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I mean the best part of Luke is that he’s The Green Kornet. For that alone he’s earned his roster spot.
 

bakahump

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Can't tell if you're kidding.

He played for us last year... and played a minor role before getting benched and eventually released after about the 1000th failure to hustle or give good defensive effort.
I was actually serious. We have established its a pretty Low Bar to be in the conversation.

Yes he played 12 entire games in 21-22 and 10 in 20-21. Was it hustle? I dont remember any rumors or gnashing of teeth about hustle per se'. Though i could have missed it. Of course on that team (TT, Teague, Carsonist etc etc) i can see where he might have been a bit depressed. And I thought 21-22 parting was due to Roster moves.

As a garbage time/break glass kinda guy he would cover wing (albeit a big wing) and Big.

His per 36 was actually decent ish. for both years. 9 Rebs and 16.5 ish points.
Vorp of .1 Not terrible for a end of bench guy. .7 BPM. A 113-105 Off/Def Rating which didnt even take into account the turnaround the last half of the season.

Not sure what his Darko is.
Again I am not interested in specifically carrying the water for Jabari Parker......but as we have said the bar is LOOOOOW, He knows the team, the team knows him and he is available. Kick the (flat?) tires at least?

Unless your right and there was a real attitude issue.
 

JM3

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No interest in renewing the Jabari experience.

He's basically a 4 & we already have Grant/Gallo for bench 4 minutes.
 

JM3

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There's some wings I'd be interested in kicking the tires on if I was a team that wasn't good at basketball, like Josh Jackson, Jarrett Culver & Isaac Bonga, but don't see a lot that would help us...

Previously discussed options I'd go Bazemore over McLemore over Hood.

Carmelo is technically still alive. LANCE? Jeremy Lamb? Blah.

Other bigs who are technically still alive include the aforementioned Ed Davis & Markief Morris.
 

chilidawg

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There's some wings I'd be interested in kicking the tires on if I was a team that wasn't good at basketball, like Josh Jackson, Jarrett Culver & Isaac Bonga, but don't see a lot that would help us...

Previously discussed options I'd go Bazemore over McLemore over Hood.

Carmelo is technically still alive. LANCE? Jeremy Lamb? Blah.

Other bigs who are technically still alive include the aforementioned Ed Davis & Markief Morris.
I always thought Davis was a pretty good 15-20 minute bench big. Has he tailed off? Big no on the Morrissii, that's just not the person or the basketball player we need.
 

JM3

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I always thought Davis was a pretty good 15-20 minute bench big. Has he tailed off? Big no on the Morrissii, that's just not the person or the basketball player we need.
All I really know is that Ed has played 303, 299 & 201 minutes the past 3 seasons. So he seems pretty done.
 

Fishy1

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I was actually serious. We have established its a pretty Low Bar to be in the conversation.

Yes he played 12 entire games in 21-22 and 10 in 20-21. Was it hustle? I dont remember any rumors or gnashing of teeth about hustle per se'. Though i could have missed it. Of course on that team (TT, Teague, Carsonist etc etc) i can see where he might have been a bit depressed. And I thought 21-22 parting was due to Roster moves.

As a garbage time/break glass kinda guy he would cover wing (albeit a big wing) and Big.

His per 36 was actually decent ish. for both years. 9 Rebs and 16.5 ish points.
Vorp of .1 Not terrible for a end of bench guy. .7 BPM. A 113-105 Off/Def Rating which didnt even take into account the turnaround the last half of the season.

Not sure what his Darko is.
Again I am not interested in specifically carrying the water for Jabari Parker......but as we have said the bar is LOOOOOW, He knows the team, the team knows him and he is available. Kick the (flat?) tires at least?

Unless your right and there was a real attitude issue.
I can't seem to corroborate that by combing through the news, but I remember myself and others finding his effort and defense really, really poor.

It was odd to me that no one picked him up after January given that guys were dropping like flies. I mean, Greg Monroe played 14 games last year after not being in the NBA for three years.

Nonetheless, apparently he's trying out for the Jazz. Here's the quote from Utah's general manager:

“It’s similar to, really, anybody else that we want to see, to be honest. For someone like him, it’s more, is he in shape, interacting with him, getting to know him better,” Taylor said. “Obviously, Danny knows him well — they had him in Boston when he was there. But getting the rest of our staff and other people that know him little bit to see him up close, see what he can do on the court, and just see how he plays with this group of guys that we have. You know, it’s really as simple as that, to be honest.”"
Nothing super dramatic there, but it seems like he's looking for chemistry.

Who knows, maybe Parker wanted some time off and turned down a bunch of contracts.
 

benhogan

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Grant Williams extension discussion up next after Brad signs a tall person better than Luke.

Let the Grant hate commence

A solid, beneficial contract would be around a four-year, $44 million extension. Williams certainly could request more, and the Celtics could certainly oblige, but don’t expect the front office to spend too much considering the amount of money the team has on the books for the upcoming seasons.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/7/7/23192089/exploring-the-potential-extensions-for-grant-williams-and-jaylen-brown-boston-celtics-brad-stevens
 

Jed Zeppelin

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There’s almost no contract—for a good player—within shouting distance of $10 mil that I would be opposed to. He doesn’t have the ceiling to outplay it necessarily but should be fair value and remain movable through the life of the deal. Roughly equivalent to the Ainge’s Jae Crowder extension adjusted for salary inflation. If that is the range that gets it done.
 

benhogan

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Can Ben Hogan get a sig change to advocate for the Return Of Baynes?
Yikes, I thought Baynes was done after the Tokyo ICU. Good to hear he is healthy enough to work out for NBA scouts.
I'm not getting my hopes up, he was pretty toasty his last NBA year in TOR.

If he signs... Baynes Hogan will have to reappear.

@HomeRunBaker, you ready for the Baynes Train? ;)
 

JM3

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I hope for the best for him, but Baynes was pretty pretty bad for Toronto 2 years ago.