What's left this off season?

Cesar Crespo

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Outside of acquiring another big, what other moves are left for the team?

There are a few roster spots to fill in but I'd guess those are used on Fitts and Morgan types. They have 4 empty roster spots and 2 2 way spots. 2 of those should be filled by Hauser and a Big. That leaves 2 and the 2 2 ways. They have 3 other players under control but aren't on the 15+2, yet.

Tatum
Brown
Time Lord
Horford
Smart
Brogdon
White
Gallo
Grant Williams
PP
Luke Kornet
------ Should happen but hasn't yet
Sam Hauser
Empty Spot 1 (Big)


------ Possibilities for last 2 roster spots and 2 way deals
Davidson
Begarin
Madar


Do people envision this team to make any more trades this offseason? I could see PP and/or Grant Williams being traded. I don't see much playing time for PP but I'm also not sure how much of a return he could bring. Anyone the C's could get in return would also never play. Maybe they could acquire a pick for him to use in future trades. Grant Williams is due for an extension and should have some value around the league but he offers value to the C's as well.

If everyone is healthy, there is going to be a minutes crunch. Of course, that never happens but the C's are now playing with 9 legit rotation players instead of 7. So even if everyone isn't healthy, minutes will be hard to come by. Looking at it from that perspective, a 2 for 1 or even 3 for 1 type of deal would make sense. While I don't think it's necessary at all to move one of Smart or White, I do wonder what a Smart/White + Grant + PP package would net in return. It's about $23 million in salary. I'm not a cap guy but they also have holds on Ryan and Thomas for a total of 3.1 million. If they are allowed to add them to any deal, it would bring it to $26 million. I don't see White or Smart being traded, though. Maybe if they could get someone like John Collins but Atlanta doesn't have a use for White or Smart.

Anyone have a preference to who fills the 14th and 15th roster spots? I'd like to see Begarin and Davidson on the 2 ways in Maine. They are both intriguing athletes so I'd rather the C's have a more hands on approach with them. The team also has plenty of shooting, at least on paper. Not sure what I'd fill the last 2 roster spots with. They have everything mostly covered. Maybe a water bug PG that isn't Davidson.
 

Cellar-Door

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My guess is that 14 will be whoever pops most in SL and 15 will be left open to start the year

Edit though 14 could be a vet wing if someone slated for a mini MLE has their Market collapse and is looking for a 1 year spot on a contender
 

lovegtm

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I like having all the guards, since Smart/White/Brogdon all play big, and Smart can easily defend up to the 3 spot.

I'd like to get a quality backup big, like "playable in a big game if TL is hurt" level guy. The team is really, really good at the 1-4, and it would be a shame to lose a winnable round in the playoffs when an ok big would have gotten you through.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I like having all the guards, since Smart/White/Brogdon all play big, and Smart can easily defend up to the 3 spot.

I'd like to get a quality backup big, like "playable in a big game if TL is hurt" level guy. The team is really, really good at the 1-4, and it would be a shame to lose a winnable round in the playoffs when an ok big would have gotten you through.
Do you have a preference between Poeltl, Bryant or Jalen Smith? Poeltl would probably cost Grant Williams but is the most similar to TL.

I'm not sure if there are other options out there. Naz Reid? He's not seeing the court in Minnesota anytime soon.
 

Cellar-Door

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Do you have a preference between Poeltl, Bryant or Jalen Smith? Poeltl would probably cost Grant Williams but is the most similar to TL.

I'm not sure if there are other options out there. Naz Reid? He's not seeing the court in Minnesota anytime soon.
Smith re-signed already. And the odds of the Celtics paying like $45M plus trade assets for Poetl is basically nil.

Edit-here are the best C available for the minimum possibly... Bryant, Gorgui Dieng, Ibaka, Whiteside, Howard, Ed Davis.
PF.. Aldridge, Griffin Harrell
 
Last edited:

Cesar Crespo

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Smith re-signed already. And the odds of the Celtics paying like $45M plus trade assets for Poetl is basically nil.
Just saw that. 2/9.6. Damn.

I agree with Poeltl but he was a target in other threads. They could fit him in the TPE but that isn't happening.
 

m0ckduck

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The minutes crunch seems like something best resolved mid-season at the trade deadline, once PBOS and Udoka have had a chance to assess how the pieces fit together (and what injuries have wrought). Venturing any trades now seems like an exercise in hubris. I've never gotten over the 1990 Red Sox preemptively "solving" the closer "problem" by trading away Lee Smith rather than just rolling into the season with him and Jeff Reardon and seeing how things played out.
 

tbb345

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Do you have a preference between Poeltl, Bryant or Jalen Smith? Poeltl would probably cost Grant Williams but is the most similar to TL.

I'm not sure if there are other options out there. Naz Reid? He's not seeing the court in Minnesota anytime soon.
Pritchard for Naz Reid makes a lot of sense….
 

kazuneko

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Bryant apparently is trying to decide between the Cs, Lakers and Raptors (for a vet minimum contact). Boston seems as least as good an option for playing time (backing up a fragile Rob and an aging Al??) and a far better place to win - which also ups his chance of getting more exposure in a long playoff run. Maybe he has personal reasons for considering the other options but if we don’t get him it will be super disappointing.
 

Cellar-Door

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Bryant apparently is trying to decide between the Cs, Lakers and Raptors (for a vet minimum contact). Boston seems as least as good an option for playing time (backing up a fragile Rob and an aging Al??) and a far better place to win - which also ups his chance of getting more exposure in a long playoff run. Maybe he has personal reasons for considering the other options but if we don’t get him it will be super disappointing.
Lakers I think he honestly gets starts maybe a lot of them
 

Cesar Crespo

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Pritchard for Naz Reid makes a lot of sense….
PP would replace Beasley. He'd probably light it up in Minnesota.

Reid wouldn't be my first option but he's young and can stretch the floor some. 7'1 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach. Very cheap.
 

JM3

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Idk about Naz. He's been -8.7 on/off each of the last 2 years. Toggling with KAT obviously doesn't help, but it's a bit of a red flag. Also, he only has 1 year of his rookie contract left before becoming a UFA. The fact that he turns 23 next month would normally be a good thing, but as a 1-year rental I'm not really sure he's ready to contribute to winning basketball.
 

tbb345

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Idk about Naz. He's been -8.7 on/off each of the last 2 years. Toggling with KAT obviously doesn't help, but it's a bit of a red flag. Also, he only has 1 year of his rookie contract left before becoming a UFA. The fact that he turns 23 next month would normally be a good thing, but as a 1-year rental I'm not really sure he's ready to contribute to winning basketball.
Hmmm…yeah that’s not great.

I am trying to think of young bigs who are about at PP’s level (roughly 9yh men but definitely rotation types)
 

Cesar Crespo

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Idk about Naz. He's been -8.7 on/off each of the last 2 years. Toggling with KAT obviously doesn't help, but it's a bit of a red flag. Also, he only has 1 year of his rookie contract left before becoming a UFA. The fact that he turns 23 next month would normally be a good thing, but as a 1-year rental I'm not really sure he's ready to contribute to winning basketball.
Right but if Bryant goes elsewhere, who is left? The player would have to be acquired by trade, not require a lot of assets, and be cheap unless the Celtics are willing to spend and/or trade a rotation player. Naz Reid fits the bill.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/center/

Outside of Ayton (and maybe Bryant), none of the remaining centers strike me as guys who can give the C's a fighting chance by playing 28-30 minutes a game if TL or Al is out. Ibaka might be nice in a 13-15 minute role but I don't want him playing 30.

Same could be said about Naz Reid but at least he has youth on his side. We also talk about how it's easy to find a big in the off season, but most of them were already gobbled up and at really good prices.

They could go with someone off this list but none of them really fit the bill.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/power-forward/


Any other cheap, potential trade targets at the 5? Naz Reid might be one of the better targets.
 

JM3

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I was going to float the idea of a Biyombo minimum signing, but he apparently agreed to terms with Phx a couple hours ago. Not sure if that would have solved any problems, but maybe Bryant + Biyombo would have been fun depth.
 

JM3

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Right but if Bryant goes elsewhere, who is left? The player would have to be acquired by trade, not require a lot of assets, and be cheap unless the Celtics are willing to spend and/or trade a rotation player. Naz Reid fits the bill.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/center/

Outside of Ayton (and maybe Bryant), none of the remaining centers strike me as guys who can give the C's a fighting chance by playing 28-30 minutes a game if TL or Al is out. Ibaka might be nice in a 13-15 minute role but I don't want him playing 30.

Same could be said about Naz Reid but at least he has youth on his side. We also talk about how it's easy to find a big in the off season, but most of them were already gobbled up and at really good prices.

They could go with someone off this list but none of them really fit the bill.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/power-forward/


Any other cheap, potential trade targets at the 5? Naz Reid might be one of the better targets.
I definitely think it's an interesting idea - I just think he probably has more value to a different team & my first reaction is that would be a great idea, but then I was a bit meh on it after some thought. If there's nothing better, there's nothing better, though.

Dieng could be non-disastrous.
 

Cesar Crespo

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They could always go into the year with a less than ideal back up and wait until buyout season. It's "risky" but there are always bigs available and the C's have contender status now.
 

benhogan

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Top targets
1. Bryant
2. Muscala
3. Kenrich Williams
4. not opposed to old friends Fernando or Moses Brown

If Bryant doesn't jump on board they could wait until the Durant carnage, Summer League, pre-season

They could also use the Juancho/DS TPEs for teams that toss in the towel or wait for buyout season to make a more permanent choice behind TL/Al

What's the story with Trez and his brick of weed?

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022-nba-free-agency-tracker-zach-lavine-gets-supermax-jalen-brunson-to-knicks-celtics-add-danilo-gallinari/
 

JakeRae

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I don’t know Bryant at all, why is the board so high on him?
When healthy, he’s a young big who’s solid across the board and very good at scoring (he’s a 65% shooter from 2 and a 35% shooter from 3, on low but not non-existent volume). He has done that on decent usage (around 18%), so it’s not like he’s someone who is thriving only because he’s being ignored. He’s not an earth shattering talent, but he is someone who if he had a better health history probably would be looking at closer to $20 million/year than the minimum.
 

mcpickl

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Provided everyone is OK with their roles, and Wyc is OK with their current payroll, they just need to sign a minimum backup center and they're done.

I would be sniffing around on moving Grant Williams for a wing of a similar ability level(struggling to find a guy), because they're a bit overloaded with bigs(I consider Gallinari a big) and only have two wings in the rotation(luckily, they're real good so it's not a major issue)
 

benhogan

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Provided everyone is OK with their roles, and Wyc is OK with their current payroll, they just need to sign a minimum backup center and they're done.

I would be sniffing around on moving Grant Williams for a wing of a similar ability level(struggling to find a guy), because they're a bit overloaded with bigs(I consider Gallinari a big) and only have two wings in the rotation(luckily, they're real good so it's not a major issue)
not sure why you and few others want to deal Grant? He's getting paid peanuts. Not many bench guys can guard Giannis/KD, and shoot 40% from 3
 

NomarsFool

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I thought they needed a backup big before Theis was traded, so I feel like they need two now.
 

Cellar-Door

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I thought they needed a backup big before Theis was traded, so I feel like they need two now.
You want to carry 7 bigs?
To me we need 1 big, since we are going to play plenty of Grant and Gallo at the 4. Two big is a product of Horford and TL, if one or both are out you want to get more time for your starter caliber players off the bench guys not bench bigs.
 

mcpickl

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not sure why you and few others want to deal Grant? He's getting paid peanuts. Not many bench guys can guard Giannis/KD, and shoot 40% from 3
Just because I think four bigs are too many, and they're short on wings.

I look at a 9 man rotation like this.

Three guards, any two that can play together - Smart, Brogdon, White. (Pritchard is now on the fringe) Check
Three bigs, any two that can play together - Rob, Al, Grant, Gallinari. Check, but I'm over by one
Three wings, all three that can play together - Tatum, Jaylen, nobody. No Check

If Gallinari or Grant could slide down and play the 3, it's not an issue. I don't think they can.

So it's about best use of resources for me. Would I rather have Grant be in the mix fighting for minutes among 4 bigs, or use his value in a trade where I could add a 3rd wing to the mix? I'd rather balance my rotation if possible.

So if they flipped Grant for a wing, and assuming they sign a minimum center, the rotation would be

Guard Brogdon, Smart, White, Pritchard injury insurance
Big Rob, Horford, Gallinari, vet minimum center as injury insurance
Wing Tatum, Jaylen, guy I trade Grant for, Hauser as injury insurance
 

Cellar-Door

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Just because I think four bigs are too many, and they're short on wings.

I look at a 9 man rotation like this.

Three guards, any two that can play together - Smart, Brogdon, White. (Pritchard is now on the fringe) Check
Three bigs, any two that can play together - Rob, Al, Grant, Gallinari. Check, but I'm over by one
Three wings, all three that can play together - Tatum, Jaylen, nobody. No Check

If Gallinari or Grant could slide down and play the 3, it's not an issue. I don't think they can.

So it's about best use of resources for me. Would I rather have Grant be in the mix fighting for minutes among 4 bigs, or use his value in a trade where I could add a 3rd wing to the mix? I'd rather balance my rotation if possible.

So if they flipped Grant for a wing, and assuming they sign a minimum center, the rotation would be

Guard Brogdon, Smart, White, Pritchard injury insurance
Big Rob, Horford, Gallinari, vet minimum center as injury insurance
Wing Tatum, Jaylen, guy I trade Grant for, Hauser as injury insurance
I think I move PP if I want a wing (or just sign a min vet) because of those bigs 2 are maybe on their last year and with no pick this year and no young bigs in development (unlike wing/guard) my depth past this season is shaky, where guard/wing I have more long term commitment.
Also I think that you can play Smart as a defacto wing in bench lineups
 

mcpickl

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I think I move PP if I want a wing (or just sign a min vet) because of those bigs 2 are maybe on their last year and with no pick this year and no young bigs in development (unlike wing/guard) my depth past this season is shaky, where guard/wing I have more long term commitment.
Also I think that you can play Smart as a defacto wing in bench lineups
Can you get a good wing for PP? I'm thinking I can probably get a decent one for Grant.

Also don't think Smart is a good fit as a defacto wing with this roster. In that scenario all three guards are playing at the same time while, I guess, 3 of the 4 bigs are resting(assuming one of Tatum/Brown is the 5th guy)

So if Grant were turned into a wing, with that guy playing instead of defacto Smart, now you'd have one of your guards resting, one of Tatum/Brown resting, and 2 of your 3 bigs resting. That would make the following minutes easier to navigate.

It's not a matter of can Smart do it. It's how it fits with the current roster.

And I like Grant Williams. I really like Grant Williams on his rookie contract. I don't know how much I'll like Grant Williams on his next contract.
 

tbb345

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Just because I think four bigs are too many, and they're short on wings.

I look at a 9 man rotation like this.

Three guards, any two that can play together - Smart, Brogdon, White. (Pritchard is now on the fringe) Check
Three bigs, any two that can play together - Rob, Al, Grant, Gallinari. Check, but I'm over by one
Three wings, all three that can play together - Tatum, Jaylen, nobody. No Check

If Gallinari or Grant could slide down and play the 3, it's not an issue. I don't think they can.

So it's about best use of resources for me. Would I rather have Grant be in the mix fighting for minutes among 4 bigs, or use his value in a trade where I could add a 3rd wing to the mix? I'd rather balance my rotation if possible.

So if they flipped Grant for a wing, and assuming they sign a minimum center, the rotation would be

Guard Brogdon, Smart, White, Pritchard injury insurance
Big Rob, Horford, Gallinari, vet minimum center as injury insurance
Wing Tatum, Jaylen, guy I trade Grant for, Hauser as injury insurance
I look at that roster and I think the one obvious need is another center. Rob is injury prone and they’re going to want to give Horford as much time off as possible to stay fresh.
Williams can play small ball 5 in a pinch but id imagine the Celtics would prefer that he not take the pounding.

Basically, if they aren’t able to sign Thomas Bryant I think trading Pritchard for someone like that is the move.

I did a quick look through teams rosters and the names I could come up with were Trendon Watford, Willy Hernangomez, Naz Reid, Isaiah Roby and Chimezie Metu
 

Cellar-Door

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I look at that roster and I think the one obvious need is another center. Rob is injury prone and they’re going to want to give Horford as much time off as possible to stay fresh.
Williams can play small ball 5 in a pinch but id imagine the Celtics would prefer that he not take the pounding.

Basically, if they aren’t able to sign Thomas Bryant I think trading Pritchard for someone like that is the move.

I did a quick look through teams rosters and the names I could come up with were Trendon Watford, Willy Hernangomez, Naz Reid, Isaiah Roby and Chimezie Metu
At that point I'd rather just sign a vet min and wait for the buyouts, there are some contenders there:
Olynyk
Zach Collins
Derrick Favors
Noel
Boban
Plumlee
 

JM3

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I've been kicking around ideas on how to get Mo Bamba here because I'm a Mo-pologist, but it seems impossible.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Also don't think Smart is a good fit as a defacto wing with this roster. In that scenario all three guards are playing at the same time while, I guess, 3 of the 4 bigs are resting(assuming one of Tatum/Brown is the 5th guy)
Smart is the PG on this roster when he is in the lineup.
 

tbb345

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At that point I'd rather just sign a vet min and wait for the buyouts, there are some contenders there:
Olynyk
Zach Collins
Derrick Favors
Noel
Boban
Plumlee
Other than Boban I think those are all really good options and about the level of player I was talking about trading for.

Obviously Brad and the FO have a better reading of the tea leaves than I do so if they think one of those guys will be available then there’s no need to trade PP for one.

It’s an incredibly minor concern but I think that the only player on the roster who could potentially be a malcontent is Pritchard. He’s still on his rookie contract, hasn’t had his big payday and he’s currently the 10th man on the team. At full strength he’s not going to see the floor…obviously there are injuries that happens throughout the year and he’s backing up two of the more injury prone players on the roster (Smart and Brogdon) so maybe it’s a moot point in the end. But I wouldn’t mind trading him for a more veteran player (Torrey Craig immediately comes to mind) who is comfortable being at the end of the rotation but can still play
 

Jakarta

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While Grant and Gallinari get lumped into the big guy category, neither is playable as the lone big guy as they don’t really provide rebounding or rim protection. With questions around how much we want Al and TL playing in the regular season, there is a need for another serviceable rebounder and rim protector. Whereas there are 7-8 guys who can be sufficiently rotated to cover the other 4 positions (yes, Gallinari/Grant won’t be the primary ball handler but there are enough other options there that they don’t have to be).
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't see why we're calling Gallo a big. Yeah, he's tall, but he doesn't do big things. If he guards Embiid or Jokic once this season, it's one time too many. Definitely Embiid.

I'm all for a more classic wing for depth, but I don’t see a path for getting there. The Jay depth will come from the tallish guard brigade imo.
 

JM3

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I don't see why we're calling Gallo a big. Yeah, he's tall, but he doesn't do big things. If he guards Embiid or Jokic once this season, it's one time too many. Definitely Embiid.

I'm all for a more classic wing for depth, but I don’t see a path for getting there. The Jay depth will come from the tallish guard brigade imo.
This screenshot is an easier way to explain Gallo's position transition over the years...

Also, I think it's pretty interesting that his on/off has been positive almost every single year.

But yeah, he certainly can't protect the rim, but you're never playing him with 2 bigs.

Screenshot_20220702-232701_Chrome.jpg
 

Cellar-Door

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This screenshot is an easier way to explain Gallo's position transition over the years...

Also, I think it's pretty interesting that his on/off has been positive almost every single year.

But yeah, he certainly can't protect the rim, but you're never playing him with 2 bigs.

View attachment 52874
Yeah, I wonder how much of his defensive slide has been playing C. I think his footspeed is down, but tracking says he gets killed on post-ups far more than PnR.
I actually wonder if he might play some with 2 "bigs" if one of them is Grant who can guard some 3s. I also think they might occasionally put him on 3s who can't really dribble by anyone (say Thybulle). Generally I think he's the bench 4 though. He'll play with 1 other big, usually Horford or TL.
 

JM3

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Yeah, I wonder how much of his defensive slide has been playing C. I think his footspeed is down, but tracking says he gets killed on post-ups far more than PnR.
I actually wonder if he might play some with 2 "bigs" if one of them is Grant who can guard some 3s. I also think they might occasionally put him on 3s who can't really dribble by anyone (say Thybulle). Generally I think he's the bench 4 though. He'll play with 1 other big, usually Horford or TL.
Yeah, I'd consider Grant the 3 in those lineups, & I would not be happy about their existence but it's possible.

& yeah, he should play basically all his minutes at the 4 with 1 real center.

Does anyone actually cover Thybulle?
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, I wonder how much of his defensive slide has been playing C. I think his footspeed is down, but tracking says he gets killed on post-ups far more than PnR.
I actually wonder if he might play some with 2 "bigs" if one of them is Grant who can guard some 3s. I also think they might occasionally put him on 3s who can't really dribble by anyone (say Thybulle). Generally I think he's the bench 4 though. He'll play with 1 other big, usually Horford or TL.
This mostly speaks to how many lineup permutations the Celtics now have. Very flexible against tons of opponent styles.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Still some vet min wing options out there in guys like Hood/Bazemore/McLemore. Nothing special but they are NBA bodies.