What will be the next number retired by the Celtics?

[JohnnyTheBone]

Poll is closed. Looks like most SoSHers believe Alfred J. Horford will the next number hoisted to the rafters.

Danny Ainge is a surprise runner-up. I assumed the ship had sailed on his candidacy, but some compelling arguments were made.

The surprise, to me, was how little support there is for Ray Allen. I thought he was going to win the poll. Thanks for voting!

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Here's Danny angling for #44.

View: https://twitter.com/TheCelticsWire/status/1803593733020975280

Danny Ainge reveals he could have dealt picks that became Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum for Jimmy Butler

 

[The Social Chair]

Does he reveal he tried really hard to trade Tatum for AD to keep Kyrie?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Is there a HoFer who won a title in Boston that isn’t in the rafters?

I don’t think Horford is a HOFer but here is the list. I don’t think I missed anyone.

Ray Allen
Bill Walton
Paul Westphal

Deleted Don Nelson, forgot his number was retired by Celtics.

 

[bankshot1]

Is there a HoFer who won a title in Boston that isn’t in the rafters?

Bailey Howell wore #18, was a starting forward in the mid-late 60s and won two titles and is a HoF. #18 is in the rafters but honors Dave Cowens.

 

[Euclis20]

Is there a HoFer who won a title in Boston that isn’t in the rafters?

Bill Walton?

*edit - HRB already got him. I don't think Horford ends up in the rafters (they've gotta start being a little more conservative with these), but JB and JT are a lock from the current group IF they don't win any more titles with this core.

 

[Brand Name]

Is there a HoFer who won a title in Boston that isn’t in the rafters?

Of the 30 HOFers to win at at least one title with the Celtics, 12 have not had their jersey retired by the team.

Bailey Howell
John Thompson
Clyde Lovellette
Ray Allen
Bill Walton
Tiny Archibald
Charlie Scott
Paul Westphal
Wayne Embry
Carl Braun
Arnie Risen
Andy Phillip

From there, only Howell, Thompson, and Lovellette won multiple titles in green, with all three winning two.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Don’t know how I forgot Carl Braun.

 

[Jakarta]

Al’s 6 years with the Celtics the team has gone: ECF, ECF, 2nd round, NBA Finals, ECF, NBA Champs. I think he’s a lock to have his jersey retired.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

I don’t think Horford is a HOFer but here is the list. I don’t think I missed anyone.

HRB, come on, man. I respect your opinion on all things hoops but Horford is a lead-pipe cinch HOFer. Two titles in college, a stellar pro career, an NBA champion, and massively respected leaguewide. Far lesser players have made the Hall.

 

[Saints Rest]

Maybe I'm an old man yelling at a cloud, but I think that teams retire too many numbers. A retired number should be reserved for cases where a player and a number are so legendary that it would be instantly preposterous for any other player to wear it. Bird's 33. Russell's 6. Auerbach's 2. Like, if whatever kid the Celtics draft in the first round next year started wearing #3, or #16, or #22, how long would it take until anybody remembered those are actually retired numbers? We all love Al Horford. If he gets his ring this year, I couldn't be happier for him. But let's be real, he's not such an all-time Celtics legend that no one else should wear 42 ever in memory of him.

But since the poll is about "will" not "should" I guess he's the correct answer. But I honestly don't see why his number would be retired but not Rondo's.

Red and Walter Browns 'numbers' are kind of silly. Celtics have 24 retired numbers, far too many, but precedent has been set. I can see 44 going up. Al and Ray Allen are less likely, but who knows.

I would only have 11 retired numbers

00- Chief
6- Bill
10- Jojo
14- Cousy
15- Heinsohn
17- Havlicek
18- Cowens
24- Sam Jones
32- McHale
33- Bird
34- Pierce

I agree with both these posts. For too long, the Celtics retired numbers for nice players who did not deserve it.
I don't think a couple years with the team + a title = retirement worthy. I don't think "died prematurely after a couple of very good seasons" = retirement worthy.

 

[slamminsammya]

HRB, come on, man. I respect your opinion on all things hoops but Horford is a lead-pipe cinch HOFer. Two titles in college, a stellar pro career, an NBA champion, and massively respected leaguewide. Far lesser players have made the Hall.

Their model seems iffy but for whatever it is worth Basketball Reference has Horford at 23%. I don't think they take into account college careers. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html

 

[Jimbodandy]

Their model seems iffy but for whatever it is worth Basketball Reference has Horford at 23%. I don't think they take into account college careers. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html

His "similarity scores" on BBRef has a bunch of guys at the top who are already in the hall. I'd be surprised if he doesn't make it.

edit: Laimbeer, Mourning, Sikma, Mutombo, Unseld, Chandler, M. Gasol, Divac, Lanier, Brad Miller.

 

[bsj]

I don't know that i buy those numbers.
Brown for instance. 0.7%? Really? Probably a Longshot but if he wins another ring or two, and collects some hardware, and plays another 7 or 8 years, he's gonna be a 30% guy imo.

Al probably isn't in, but I think this win gets him closer to 35-40%. 2 more years and another title I think makes him a coin flip

 

[slamminsammya]

I don't know that i buy those numbers.
Brown for instance. 0.7%? Really? Probably a Longshot but if he wins another ring or two, and collects some hardware, and plays another 7 or 8 years, he's gonna be a 30% guy imo.

Al probably isn't in, but I think this win gets him closer to 35-40%. 2 more years and another title I think makes him a coin flip

I assume for the active players it’s “if they retired today” and not projecting the rest of their careers.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

HRB, come on, man. I respect your opinion on all things hoops but Horford is a lead-pipe cinch HOFer. Two titles in college, a stellar pro career, an NBA champion, and massively respected leaguewide. Far lesser players have made the Hall.

I dunno. He’s more like a Hall of Very Good guy to me. It was only a couple years ago when his nickname was Average Al. I think todays recency bias is clouding his overall resume but when he gets on the ballot the full body of work will be analyzed without this bias. Over his NBA career he has made zero 1st or 2nd All-NBA teams and only one 3rd Team. That’s a Gordon Hayward resume with a longer career.

 

[slamminsammya]

I dunno. He’s more like a Hall of Very Good guy to me. It was only a couple years ago when his nickname was Average Al. I think todays recency bias is clouding his overall resume but when he gets on the ballot the full body of work will be analyzed without this bias. Over his NBA career he has made zero 1st or 2nd All-NBA teams and only one 3rd Team. That’s a Gordon Hayward resume with a longer career.

are you seriously referencing lou merloni in making your case here? i agree with the overall point but average al?

 

[jezza1918]

I dunno. He’s more like a Hall of Very Good guy to me. It was only a couple years ago when his nickname was Average Al. I think todays recency bias is clouding his overall resume but when he gets on the ballot the full body of work will be analyzed without this bias. Over his NBA career he has made zero 1st or 2nd All-NBA teams and only one 3rd Team. That’s a Gordon Hayward resume with a longer career.

Seems like a somewhat unfair comp given Al has 5 ASG appearances to Haywards 1...and the 3rd team all nba, and 2nd team all defense. How much do the back to back NCAA titles matter when it comes to making the hall?

 

[Justthetippett]

I dunno. He’s more like a Hall of Very Good guy to me. It was only a couple years ago when his nickname was Average Al. I think todays recency bias is clouding his overall resume but when he gets on the ballot the full body of work will be analyzed without this bias. Over his NBA career he has made zero 1st or 2nd All-NBA teams and only one 3rd Team. That’s a Gordon Hayward resume with a longer career.

But if Hayward had won two NCAA championships and at least one NBA title. The way the criteria are applied for the BBall hall of fame, I don't think there's any way he doesn't get in. He's also likely to be very ambassadorial in retirement, and that never hurts.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

are you seriously referencing lou merloni in making your case here? i agree with the overall point but average al?

I never felt this way but half of New England was calling him this in a kind way.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Seems like a somewhat unfair comp given Al has 5 ASG appearances to Haywards 1...and the 3rd team all nba, and 2nd team all defense. How much do the back to back NCAA titles matter when it comes to making the hall?

Yeah I wouldn’t go to war on this like I said I’d guess 70/30. I wouldn’t be shocked if he did and I can even be swayed some to have this closer to a coinflip. As others have said there have been worse inductees and his college career helps too.

 

[jezza1918]

Yeah I wouldn’t go to war on this like I said I’d guess 70/30. I wouldn’t be shocked if he did and I can even be swayed some to have this closer to a coinflip. As others have said there have been worse inductees and his college career helps too.

Gotcha. That last part was a legit question though fwiw, not a leading one ha! Genuinely curious if you or anyone else have insight on how much the college stuff helps.

 

[bakahump]

Its not the pro BB hall of fame. Its the BB hall of fame. If foreign players get all that credit then surely being one of it not the Man on B2B College Champs certainly vaults him in. I think this championship is the lock.
I wonder how many 15 year players, who won both an NBA title and at least 1 NCAA title are NOT in the HOF.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Gotcha. That last part was a legit question though fwiw, not a leading one ha! Genuinely curious if you or anyone else have insight on how much the college stuff helps.

Dino Radja is in the HOF.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Gotcha. That last part was a legit question though fwiw, not a leading one ha! Genuinely curious if you or anyone else have insight on how much the college stuff helps.

Historically the order for players has been. 1- NBA, 2- International , 3- NCAA

You could even make a case to flip flop 1 and 2.

 

[Brand Name]

I wonder how many 15 year players, who won both an NBA title and at least 1 NCAA title are NOT in the HOF.

Only ones I could think of among inactives are Jason Terry, Nazr Mohammed, and Glen Rice.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

I wonder how many 15 year players, who won both an NBA title and at least 1 NCAA title are NOT in the HOF.

Only ones I could think of among inactives are Jason Terry, Nazr Mohammed, and Glen Rice.

So, I know I'm revealing my own ignorance when I say than I've been later to noticing your work than lots of other people but god damn, this is an impressive pull

 

[Brand Name]

So, I know I'm revealing my own ignorance when I say than I've been later to noticing your work than lots of other people but god damn, this is an impressive pull

Thanks, I truly appreciate the kind words. Your contributions are always fantastic.

I like doing this so anyone can have answers at anytime, anywhere, for anything. Life's goal is to try to answer every single question. Never know when you'll need it or when anyone will ask. Always an ask away.

 

[Eagle3]

I agree with those who have said the Celtics are far too generous with their criteria for retiring numbers. You should be a HOFer before even being considered, plus also spending the majority of your career with the team, and definitely should be contributions as a player only. Retired numbers should only be for the absolute best of the best players.
Create a Celtics Hall of Fame, or Ring of Honor, whatever you want to call it to recognize the non-player contributions and the really good but maybe not great players that had a big impact. Similar to what the Red Sox do.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

My man!!

https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nba/boston-celtics/danny-ainge-celtics-number-retirement-case/623583/

 

[brendan f]

Poll is closed. Looks like most SoSHers believe Alfred J. Horford will the next number hoisted to the rafters.

Danny Ainge is a surprise runner-up. I assumed the ship had sailed on his candidacy, but some compelling arguments were made.

Wyc said a long time ago he plans to retire Ainge's number even before Ainge had such as lasting impact as a GM so I would expect that to come relatively soon.

I don't think Horford makes it. Great guy, great player, but he didn't have an incredible impact on the organization relative to other recent players who have made it. He'll have a case if they win it again this year.

 

[bakahump]

Thanks, I truly appreciate the kind words. Your contributions are always fantastic.

I like doing this so anyone can have answers at anytime, anywhere, for anything. Life's goal is to try to answer every single question. Never know when you'll need it or when anyone will ask. Always an ask away.

That is awesom @Brand Name

When and if you have a second......how many ARE in the HOF who fit this criteria?

That could make for a compelling argument. If there were 106 or 55 and only a handful are not in the HOF.

Only ones I could think of among inactives are Jason Terry, Nazr Mohammed, and Glen Rice.

Al bests all three in "Career WS" With Terry Being 10 behind and Al still putting up 6+ the last 3 seasons.

For what its worth too Only Shawn Marion, Horace Grant and Dwight Howard are ahead of him in Winshares and not in the HOF. (along with harden, Steph, Lebron and similar Lead pipe cinches).

But it is WS and it is a BB stat....sooo.....

 

[Brand Name]

That is awesom @Brand Name

When and if you have a second......how many ARE in the HOF who fit this criteria?

That could make for a compelling argument. If there were 106 or 55 and only a handful are not in the HOF.

Al bests all three in "Career WS" With Terry Being 10 behind and Al still putting up 6+ the last 3 seasons.

For what its worth too Only Shawn Marion, Horace Grant and Dwight Howard are ahead of him in Winshares and not in the HOF. (along with harden, Steph, Lebron and similar Lead pipe cinches).

But it is WS and it is a BB stat....sooo.....

Hey, I actively enjoy doing it, used to make my money this way. Here's a way too detailed breakdown that I had fun making, hope you enjoy it as much as I did.


By the numbers, including actives...

-192 have 15+ seasons
-851 have at least one ring, including BAA and ABA
-933 players have at least one college national championship since 1947-48, including those who never it to the next level of ABA, NBA, or BAA
-89 have 15+ seasons and one ring
-8* have 15+ seasons, one ring, and a college national championship, including Al
-3 have 15+ seasons, one ring, a college national championship, and are in the HOF, since we know the three that didn't, from above: Michael Jordan, Kareem, and Hondo.

*Wait, so there's another active out there this applies to since 3 HOF + 3 out + Al is only 7? Yep! Danny Green.

The first three numbers are with each variable using the total number, so a player with one season, one ring, like your Jordan Walshes of the world, will show up in ring havers. On that note, this means these also include this season's Celtics.

 

[McBride11]

I would be shocked if Al doesnt make the BB HoF. Stellar college career followed by a great
nBA career including at least 1 ring.

I think Ainge and Al would be worthy of the Loscy treatment (i know he requested his name not number). If Ainge’s GM success put him over the top, putting 44 up there seems a little silly.

 

[TripleOT]

There are very few players who have won two NCAA titles and two NBA titles. If Al gets another title next season, he should be a shoo in (off the top of my head: Kareem, Jamaal Wilkes, Russell, KC Jones, Walton). There aren’t a lot of players with two NCAA titles and an NBA championship. With Al’ s two college titles and NBA title, considering that in the modern (Bird/Magic) era, very few players have won twice in college, he should be in the Hall even if the Celts don’t win again.

Ainge should have his number in the rafters for his total contribution to the franchise. He won two titles as a player, as one of the best starting fives of all time, won one as a GM, and should be credited for acquiring the foundation of the 18th championship team. The man that finally surrounded the Jays with the right players to win, Brad Stevens, was brought in by Ainge. Danny has had a hand in four titles, even though he wasn’t with the team when the fourth one was secured, and there aren’t any other people in the modern era who have contributed to four titles

I hope they do it this upcoming season. Celtics legends are dropping like flies lately, and IIRC they have Chipotle in Utah.

 

[bankshot1]

Given the Celts historically liberal policy towards honoring past great and near greats, both players and non players, perhaps Red's bench buddy and iirc a key role player aiding 8 championship teams, should be so honored. I imagine many would like to see him hung from the rafters.

 

[bakahump]

Hey, I actively enjoy doing it, used to make my money this way. Here's a way too detailed breakdown that I had fun making, hope you enjoy it as much as I did.


By the numbers, including actives...

-3 have 15+ seasons, one ring, a college national championship, and are in the HOF, since we know the three that didn't, from above: Michael Jordan, Kareem, and Hondo.

Yea but did any of those 3 win multiple Championships?

 

[Brand Name]

Yea but did any of those 3 win multiple Championships?

Just Kareem in college with the other conditions. So hey, I think that's absolutely possible. And hopeful!

 

[mostman]

I agree with those who have said the Celtics are far too generous with their criteria for retiring numbers. You should be a HOFer before even being considered, plus also spending the majority of your career with the team, and definitely should be contributions as a player only. Retired numbers should only be for the absolute best of the best players.
Create a Celtics Hall of Fame, or Ring of Honor, whatever you want to call it to recognize the non-player contributions and the really good but maybe not great players that had a big impact. Similar to what the Red Sox do.

This would be an interesting thread topic. Who is currently in the rafters that probably shouldn’t be?

 

[Devizier]

This would be an interesting thread topic. Who is currently in the rafters that probably shouldn’t be?

Counting from lowest number up:

3 DJ
5 KG
10 Jo Jo White
16 Satch Sanders
19 Don Nelson
23 Frank Ramsey
24 Sam Jones
25 KC Jones
31 Cedric Maxwell
LOSCY

That would still leave them with 14 retired numbers, most in the NBA.

At least they never retired someone else’s jersey like the Heat (Jordan).

 

[Al Zarilla]

Counting from lowest number up:

3 DJ
5 KG
10 Jo Jo White
16 Satch Sanders
19 Don Nelson
23 Frank Ramsey
24 Sam Jones
25 KC Jones
31 Cedric Maxwell
LOSCY

That would still leave them with 14 retired numbers, most in the NBA.

At least they never retired someone else’s jersey like the Heat (Jordan).

You’d retire Ed McCauley’s number, but not Sam Jones’s? I don’t know what to say.

 

[JohnnyTheBone]

You’d retire Ed McCauley’s number, but not Sam Jones’s? I don’t know what to say.

He was before my time, but 10-time champion Sam Jones absofugginlutely deserves to be in the rafters.

 

[Devizier]

You’d retire Ed McCauley’s number, but not Sam Jones’s? I don’t know what to say.

You know what? Easy Ed can go, too.

And not for nothing, when George Mikan demanded that all his teammates retired with him, the Lakers refused to do that. Although it still doesn’t excuse them for waiting 17 years after his death to put his number up.

 

[bankshot1]

Sam was a legit HoF and one of the best shooting guards of his era. He was lightening quick on his drive and had this shot, the name escapes me right now,
that was a thing of beauty. IIRC at the time of his retirement he was the Celts leader in points scored and 2nd in rings. Sam belongs.

 

[Rudi Fingers]

Sam was a legit HoF and one of the best shooting guards of his era. He was lightening quick on his drive and had this shot, the name escapes me right now,
that was a thing of beauty. IIRC at the time of his retirement he was the Celts leader in points scored and 2nd in rings. Sam belongs.

Username and avatar checks out </obvious>

 

[Al Zarilla]

Sam was a legit HoF and one of the best shooting guards of his era. He was lightening quick on his drive and had this shot, the name escapes me right now,
that was a thing of beauty. IIRC at the time of his retirement he was the Celts leader in points scored and 2nd in rings. Sam belongs.

Nice. Sweetest bank shot of all time. If he didn’t invent it, he was the first player to make it his calling card.

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

Sam Jones and Jo Jo White absolutely deserve to have their numbers retired, the rest I agree with.

 

[lexrageorge]

Sam Jones and Jo Jo White absolutely deserve to have their numbers retired, the rest I agree with.

This. Both were key pieces on their respective teams. As in they don’t win as many titles without either (and probably none without JoJo). Seems strange to single them out as undeserving.

There are still over 60 numbers available even after accounting for current players and someone like Ainge.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Username and avatar checks out </obvious>

His burner account is twohandedbouncepass

Anyway, wtf is Don Nelson’s number retired? He avg over 14ppg once, he avg over 6rpg twice, he wasn’t a playmaker, and avg 21.8mpg during his Celtics tenure.

Nice role player but he has Kelly Olynyk stats across the board including role.

 

[bankshot1]

His burner account is twohandedbouncepass

I changed it to : 3toMake2