What To Do About the Bullpen

How to fix the bullpen?

  • A. Move Houck to the pen, and Richards/Perez back to rotation

    Votes: 9 10.7%
  • B. Move Houck to the pen, with Seabold promoted and moved into the rotation

    Votes: 16 19.0%
  • C. Promote Valdez and Rios and shed some dead weight (Robles, Davis)

    Votes: 22 26.2%
  • D. Add some players, like Brice, Ort, Feltman to the 40-man, promote them, and shed dead weight

    Votes: 27 32.1%
  • E. Hang tight and hope guys that are currently on the team get better

    Votes: 21 25.0%
  • F. Something else

    Votes: 3 3.6%

  • Total voters
    84

scottyno

late Bloomer
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Dec 7, 2008
11,308
Moving Houck to the pen solves so many issues for the rest of the season. Between him Whitlock and Richards they should be able to throw out a very good guy who can potentially go 2-3 innings almost every night. I almost wonder if that's a logical option for next season rather than trying to move one of them back into the rotation, but that's a concern for another day depending on who makes sense in the free agent market.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Jan 23, 2009
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Moving Houck to the pen solves so many issues for the rest of the season. Between him Whitlock and Richards they should be able to throw out a very good guy who can potentially go 2-3 innings almost every night. I almost wonder if that's a logical option for next season rather than trying to move one of them back into the rotation, but that's a concern for another day depending on who makes sense in the free agent market.
With the two extra roster spots this month and the time remaining in this season, particularly with the off-days allowing them to run with just four starters, it makes all the sense in the world. Post-season as well.

I don't see it as a sustainable strategy over 162 games though. The only way it could work for a full season is if you incorporate more of the minor league shuttle guys, so you can rotate fatigued/overworked arms out and get fresh arms up. But I don't think they want to commit Houck and Whitlock and Seabold and Mata and Groome, just to name a few guys with options who could fit the bill, to being 2-3 inning guys instead of figuring out how to be 5-6+ inning big league starters (either in Worcester or Boston's rotation).
 

nvalvo

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Jul 16, 2005
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With the two extra roster spots this month and the time remaining in this season, particularly with the off-days allowing them to run with just four starters, it makes all the sense in the world. Post-season as well.

I don't see it as a sustainable strategy over 162 games though. The only way it could work for a full season is if you incorporate more of the minor league shuttle guys, so you can rotate fatigued/overworked arms out and get fresh arms up. But I don't think they want to commit Houck and Whitlock and Seabold and Mata and Groome, just to name a few guys with options who could fit the bill, to being 2-3 inning guys instead of figuring out how to be 5-6+ inning big league starters (either in Worcester or Boston's rotation).
Bryan Mata is throwing again after his surgery, which is tremendous news. He could be back in our starting depth picture by the second half of next season.

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1438903207988764680
 

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
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Jul 20, 2005
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With the two extra roster spots this month and the time remaining in this season, particularly with the off-days allowing them to run with just four starters, it makes all the sense in the world. Post-season as well.

I don't see it as a sustainable strategy over 162 games though. The only way it could work for a full season is if you incorporate more of the minor league shuttle guys, so you can rotate fatigued/overworked arms out and get fresh arms up. But I don't think they want to commit Houck and Whitlock and Seabold and Mata and Groome, just to name a few guys with options who could fit the bill, to being 2-3 inning guys instead of figuring out how to be 5-6+ inning big league starters (either in Worcester or Boston's rotation).
It doesn't necessarily have to be those guys, but there's an opportunity to rethink how bullpens work in the age of 5 inning starters. Most teams have been carrying 13 or 14 pitchers, which generally works out to 5 starters, 7 or 8 one inning guys, and a multiple inning mop up guy. In the Red Sox case, the multiple inning guy has been really good and not used in mop up situations. If you can find the right players, it may work better to have 5 starters, 3 decent or better multiple inning guys, and 5 one inning guys. You'd be able to give the multiple inning relievers 2-3 days off between appearances and you'd have one available every night.

It may be possible to stretch out a one inning reliever to become a multiple inning guy. Or maybe you use young starters who haven't been built up to a full starting load or don't have a decent third pitch. If you could build a staff like that, I think it would work better than the current situation of having 4 or 5 different pitchers appearing in every single game.
 

cantor44

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Dec 23, 2020
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It doesn't necessarily have to be those guys, but there's an opportunity to rethink how bullpens work in the age of 5 inning starters. Most teams have been carrying 13 or 14 pitchers, which generally works out to 5 starters, 7 or 8 one inning guys, and a multiple inning mop up guy. In the Red Sox case, the multiple inning guy has been really good and not used in mop up situations. If you can find the right players, it may work better to have 5 starters, 3 decent or better multiple inning guys, and 5 one inning guys. You'd be able to give the multiple inning relievers 2-3 days off between appearances and you'd have one available every night.

It may be possible to stretch out a one inning reliever to become a multiple inning guy. Or maybe you use young starters who haven't been built up to a full starting load or don't have a decent third pitch. If you could build a staff like that, I think it would work better than the current situation of having 4 or 5 different pitchers appearing in every single game.
I think this makes a tremendous amount of sense, and could well be the next "thing" we see in baseball. If nothing else the Red Sox are seeing it is a strength they can play to for the stretch run and playoffs. Good for Cora (and Bloom) showing creativity and flexibility pivoting the team this way.
 

VORP Speed

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Apr 23, 2010
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It doesn't necessarily have to be those guys, but there's an opportunity to rethink how bullpens work in the age of 5 inning starters. Most teams have been carrying 13 or 14 pitchers, which generally works out to 5 starters, 7 or 8 one inning guys, and a multiple inning mop up guy. In the Red Sox case, the multiple inning guy has been really good and not used in mop up situations. If you can find the right players, it may work better to have 5 starters, 3 decent or better multiple inning guys, and 5 one inning guys. You'd be able to give the multiple inning relievers 2-3 days off between appearances and you'd have one available every night.

It may be possible to stretch out a one inning reliever to become a multiple inning guy. Or maybe you use young starters who haven't been built up to a full starting load or don't have a decent third pitch. If you could build a staff like that, I think it would work better than the current situation of having 4 or 5 different pitchers appearing in every single game.
In other words, what the Rays are doing
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,308
It doesn't necessarily have to be those guys, but there's an opportunity to rethink how bullpens work in the age of 5 inning starters. Most teams have been carrying 13 or 14 pitchers, which generally works out to 5 starters, 7 or 8 one inning guys, and a multiple inning mop up guy. In the Red Sox case, the multiple inning guy has been really good and not used in mop up situations. If you can find the right players, it may work better to have 5 starters, 3 decent or better multiple inning guys, and 5 one inning guys. You'd be able to give the multiple inning relievers 2-3 days off between appearances and you'd have one available every night.

It may be possible to stretch out a one inning reliever to become a multiple inning guy. Or maybe you use young starters who haven't been built up to a full starting load or don't have a decent third pitch. If you could build a staff like that, I think it would work better than the current situation of having 4 or 5 different pitchers appearing in every single game.
They already have 4 of the 5 starters without including any of Whitlock Houck or Richards (if he's back) if they want to go with Seabold. Barnes, Hernandez, Taylor and Sawamura are probably all locked in to 4 of the 1 inning roles in some capacity so they're in decent shape there already.
 
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Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Mar 11, 2007
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Darwinzon has looked quite good in his return. Richards has been good.
I'd like to see what Barnes looks like in a tighter spot to see if he can regain his "pre-sticky-stuff" stuff.
Houck is a great addition.
Lining up the BP (without assuming Cora did with starters what he did in '18) I'm nervous as shit when Hiro gets on the mound... and Whitlock's injury is seriously worrisome. Without good Barnes and sans Whitlock the pen is a serious weakness. Even with them it's still got holes
 

TheGhostOfJackClark

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May 23, 2021
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Basically we need to pray that Whitlock is fine and that a week of rest resolves this pec tightness. If it’s strained or torn we are Fd.
 

scottyno

late Bloomer
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Dec 7, 2008
11,308
Robles and Davis have yet to give up a run this month, and Robles looks like a flame-throwing machine with 12 ks 1 bb and 3 hits in 7 and 2/3rds
 

nvalvo

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Robles and Davis have yet to give up a run this month, and Robles looks like a flame-throwing machine with 12 ks 1 bb and 3 hits in 7 and 2/3rds
I just learned that Austin Davis has just a touch above one season of service time. We hold his rights through 2026.
 

SouthernBoSox

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Robles and Davis have yet to give up a run this month, and Robles looks like a flame-throwing machine with 12 ks 1 bb and 3 hits in 7 and 2/3rds
For some reason this isn’t discussed in the Trade Deadline thread and instead people are arguing that Danny Santana was a better option at first than Bobby Dalbec before the deadline.

It’s very obvious Bloom doesn’t care about past performance. Rather, he cares about the analyzing a player for future performance.

Everyone made fun of grabbing Robles and Davis for absolutely nothing. Quickly glancing at this ERA’s and thinking they were nothing. Instead, you’ve got two very important bullpen pieces pitching in important innings.
 

cantor44

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Dec 23, 2020
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For some reason this isn’t discussed in the Trade Deadline thread and instead people are arguing that Danny Santana was a better option at first than Bobby Dalbec before the deadline.

It’s very obvious Bloom doesn’t care about past performance. Rather, he cares about the analyzing a player for future performance.

Everyone made fun of grabbing Robles and Davis for absolutely nothing. Quickly glancing at this ERA’s and thinking they were nothing. Instead, you’ve got two very important bullpen pieces pitching in important innings.
I am totally guilty of dismissing those acquisitions. I'm stepping up to take it on the chin here, and give Bloom due credit. He does indeed excel at identifying undervalued talent.

Meanwhile, forgive the game thread nature of this, but it involves the bullpen: How did Barnes look last night? I didn't see the game after the 3rd. I see his line in the box score looks nice, but how was to the eye test?

Always looking for harbingers in games, win or lose. Maybe his performance was a silver lining last night?
 

cantor44

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I can't find any updates on Whitlock. Is he going to be activated tomorrow today? Seems like a big deal if he's avail or not ...Anyone know?
 
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