And it can only be better for Vazquez and the team for him to start learning Major League hitters and getting more familiar with the Sox pitching staff earlier rather than later.
What should the Red Sox do with AJ Pierzynski's roster spot for the rest of 2014?
- Thread starter Snodgrass'Muff
- Start date
This team doesn't have Manny / Ortiz in the middle of the order anymore. Well, OK, we still have Ortiz, but he's 38 now. The Red Sox need 1-9 production since the middle-of-the-order bats aren't anything special anymore.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
Hindsight is 20/20. I don't hate AJP but I won't mis him OR Ross. He's not Kelly Shoppach who was a cancer and HAD to go in 2012.
Kurt Suzuki was available in the off season and his always hit well at Fenway. A workhorse behind the plate. Ross although a likable guy is NOT the answer either. If you decide to blow up the position and be sellers, don't even whine the rest of the way.
Kurt Suzuki was available in the off season and his always hit well at Fenway. A workhorse behind the plate. Ross although a likable guy is NOT the answer either. If you decide to blow up the position and be sellers, don't even whine the rest of the way.
Sign me up for some Russell Martin or Kurt Suzuki, but I have my doubts that either one will be interested in a 1 year mentoring gig and anything more than I would shy away from.
Likely this doesn't amount to much, as it looks like Swihart is certainly on tap for a June 2015 arrival. I agree Vazquez does need to get substantial major league time before the end of the year.
Likely this doesn't amount to much, as it looks like Swihart is certainly on tap for a June 2015 arrival. I agree Vazquez does need to get substantial major league time before the end of the year.
But they're not getting 1-9 production now. Its not like Vazquez is going to make it worse. Can it get worse?Super Nomario said:
Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
I can't speak for others, but I wasn't citing his offense as a reason to keep him down in the sense that I think it's going to matter much for the 2014 Sox how well he hits. I pretty much agree with you on that. My concern is that exposure to ML pitching at this point might be counterproductive developmentally. If there's any chance at all of that, they should let him ripen a little more on the farm.
I'm of the belief that it will soon be time to see what the kids can do, and that applies especially to the catcher situation. The reality is that if the team finishes out of the playoffs (which seems likely), next year's team is going to look substantially different from this year's. I would ignore "there's no quality players available next year" meme; we heard the same during the depths of the 2012 season as well.
However, there's no reason to dump AJP today. Shop him, and continue to play him and hope that he turns around somewhat at the plate, and hope for another team to have an injury to their catcher between now and the end of July. Might as well maximize the return you get from any player you plan to trade; there's no rush to "sell low".
If Vazquez doesn't hit this year, so be it. At least the FO would have some info on what they need to bring in for 2015. There's no need to block Vazquez simply because Stephen Drew and Gomes aren't hitting.
However, there's no reason to dump AJP today. Shop him, and continue to play him and hope that he turns around somewhat at the plate, and hope for another team to have an injury to their catcher between now and the end of July. Might as well maximize the return you get from any player you plan to trade; there's no rush to "sell low".
If Vazquez doesn't hit this year, so be it. At least the FO would have some info on what they need to bring in for 2015. There's no need to block Vazquez simply because Stephen Drew and Gomes aren't hitting.
Looking at his minor league numbers he seems like the type of player that gets better offensively the more time he has at any level. He's done it through every promotion. He starts slow but by the next year he's hitting at an acceptable rate. I'd rather get that clock started at the major league level now so by next year he will be better acclimated to this level.Savin Hillbilly said:
Oh, it can always get worse.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
For 2014, it probably doesn't matter, since the team appears to be going nowhere fast. I'm just skeptical of penciling in Vazquez as a 2015 starter given his 2014 performance to date, unless they're planning to drastically improve some of the other lineup spots.
That's one interpretation - you could easily read those patterns as suggesting the Sox should be more conservative with his MLB promotion if they want his bat to be readier. And they haven't promoted him after so few games at a level or so little success since they jumped him out of the NYPL at age 18.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
From the standpoint of pure enjoyment of watching baseball, I want Vazquez to take over for AJP, ASAP.
I've been of the opinion all along for this season that it was going to be bumpy, but I was going to enjoy watching X, Bradley, et al break into the majors. Has JBJ been an abomination at the plate? Sorta, yes. But man I like watching him play center.
I suspect the experience with Vazquez will be very similar. He will definitely look lost at the plate at times, but behind it he'll look spectacular. This is a guy with a plus-plus arm, who handles the ball effortlessly, and who just looks like he's completely comfortable playing defense at all times.
If I have to watch AJ drop pitch after pitch and look like he's handling a hot piece of uranium for the rest of the season, it's going to seriously impact my enjoyment level.
The season is spent. Even with the extra wildcard and the Jays coming back to the pack, the Sox just don't have the offensive firepower, it looks like Victorino may just not pan out this season, and there are going to be a ton more 3-2 losses on the schedule.
DFA AJ for all I care.
I've been of the opinion all along for this season that it was going to be bumpy, but I was going to enjoy watching X, Bradley, et al break into the majors. Has JBJ been an abomination at the plate? Sorta, yes. But man I like watching him play center.
I suspect the experience with Vazquez will be very similar. He will definitely look lost at the plate at times, but behind it he'll look spectacular. This is a guy with a plus-plus arm, who handles the ball effortlessly, and who just looks like he's completely comfortable playing defense at all times.
If I have to watch AJ drop pitch after pitch and look like he's handling a hot piece of uranium for the rest of the season, it's going to seriously impact my enjoyment level.
The season is spent. Even with the extra wildcard and the Jays coming back to the pack, the Sox just don't have the offensive firepower, it looks like Victorino may just not pan out this season, and there are going to be a ton more 3-2 losses on the schedule.
DFA AJ for all I care.
Years too, right? I think the Sox really didn't want to go past one year, given the prospects in the system, and there are very few players of any consequence available at that position on a one-year deal. Even a two year deal (e.g. for Salty) is a way bigger problem given Vazquez' readiness.moondog80 said:
chrisfont9 said:
And as some of us said during the offseason, that made no sense. In 2014 he would've been the clear starter. Next year, if one of the prospects was ready, they could've split time. In 2016 Salty becomes the backup or is traded. Refusing to go three years at a very reasonable cost assuming that the prospects will be ready to handle the full-time catching duties in 2015 didn't, and still doesn't, seem like a well thought out plan. Worst case scenario, Salty becomes a fairly expensive backup to a minimum salary player for half of the deal.
Rudy Pemberton said:
Sure. If he told them he wasn't interested then obviously this whole discussion is moot. But since we don't know that to be the case my point is directed at people who have posted the argument that signing him for three years wouldn't have made any sense given the prospects in the system. Were there any stories about bad blood between him and the team? If not, I don't see why he would choose Miami over Boston all things being equal.
not one/ no one Either requires the singular verb. But you got me on that missing "t."JohntheBaptist said:
I wish I had the time to try to answer my own question about how AJP compares to other Sox players re numbers of runners stranded. If anyone has those numbers, I would really enjoy seeing them.
Super Nomario said:
He has a decent average and his OPS is low due to his lack of power. He gets on base at a decent clip considering he doesn't walk much. I think he's performed pretty well for his first year in AAA. I understand the skepticism, but I doubt he's going to be a blackhole and he would have to be to make his glove not worth it.
InsideTheParker said:
No, it doesn't. That this is a grammatical universal is a misconception. Many--if not most--I've encountered say otherwise. I'd link but I'm sure you have Google too.
Yes, I expect usage may have changed. But as an older person who used to teach, I find this trend regrettable. Pet peeve.JohntheBaptist said:
I'll shut up now, as I realize I've strayed further off-topic than I originally intended.
I wonder which will be greater tonight, the numbers of pitches taken by AJP or the number of times he drops the ball?
Well, just saying, it may be you were subject to the trend. It was never a rigid grammatical rule.
I'm fairly certain that "none" is not definitionally a singular word. There are certain words that can be both singular and plural depending upon the sentence.
So
None of the money was lost
None of the dollars were lost
are both correct.
Other words like that are 'most", and "some"
I'm just not sure that none is one of those words----but it sounds right.
So
None of the money was lost
None of the dollars were lost
are both correct.
Other words like that are 'most", and "some"
I'm just not sure that none is one of those words----but it sounds right.
I don't really see the point of ditching Pierzynski unless you A) get a phenomenal deal or B) get someone else in some other deal who can start for the rest of this year and maybe next.
I love Vazquez' arm as much as anyone, but he's a guy who has taken a long time to adjust to new levels, isn't likely to produce at the plate, and other than his arm, we don't know that his defense is a great improvement over AJ. Sure, the arm is a pretty big thing, but it's not enough to make the change based on hating Pierzynski.
I love Vazquez' arm as much as anyone, but he's a guy who has taken a long time to adjust to new levels, isn't likely to produce at the plate, and other than his arm, we don't know that his defense is a great improvement over AJ. Sure, the arm is a pretty big thing, but it's not enough to make the change based on hating Pierzynski.
Rasputin said:
Actually we do. He's also been praised for his preparation and game calling. He's not just an arm. He's the whole package behind the dish.
Rasputin said:
Everything I've read has said the exact opposite. This is the latest:
http://nesn.com/2014/06/scout-red-soxs-christian-vazquez-is-major-league-ready-right-now/
Why can't we have nice things?
geoduck no quahog said:
This is the type of post that immediately formed in my mind as well. Apologies for the fact that it is not typically 'main board worthy' and aware that it is based on precisely zero factual knowledge and in fact probably nothing more than confirmation bias from someone who was hating this signing from before it even happened...
AJP, more than any other player I've ever watched, screams 'guy who doesn't give a shit and is just cashing in his last big paycheck and counting the days until he can go hunting and fishing'. Both his at bats and his defense really give off this vibe, and I agree with MDLTG that it detracts from the entertainment of watching this team. I feel like he is so deeply in 'i don't care' mode that forecasting his future production with the projection systems is not realistic.
I voted to take the best offer for him (I wouldn't expect much - what contender even really needs a catcher?) and call up Butler, as I'm in the camp that believes that it'd be best to give Vazquez's bat more development time if we are hoping it will ever be at all serviceable.
This piece is bullish on his overall D, particularly his pitch framing:Rasputin said:
http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20140609-catcher-christian-vazquez-becoming-more-than-just-an-arm.ece
I thought he looked good overall in spring as well, from the little I saw.
AJP is the new John Lackey.
I don't see how one can pencil in Vasquez for a .650-.700 OPS at the MLB level when he is barely doing it in AAA. The best hitting catcher in our system is in AA, and may be the best overall.
Would this team go with two rookie catchers?
I don't see how one can pencil in Vasquez for a .650-.700 OPS at the MLB level when he is barely doing it in AAA. The best hitting catcher in our system is in AA, and may be the best overall.
Would this team go with two rookie catchers?
Bradley starts hitting to his MLE, Nava starts hitting righties to his career averages, Pyrzinski starts hitting like he did last season, and Buchholz has fixed his mechanics.Papelbon's Poutine said:
All the arguments for bringing up Vazquez are even weaker than the arguments for handing CF to JBJ this season, and all the arguments for dumping AJP and not even considering him for next year contradict the rationale for signing him in the first place.
Glad so many people have come around to my position on Salty though. To bad it, along with its sister decisions of not having veteran depth at CF or the left side of the infield, helped create this nearly unwatchable disaster of a half season and likely uncompetitive and pointless second half.
It might be an uncompetitive 2nd half but it won't be pointless. Good chance we will be watching Vazquez, Bogaerts, Bradley, Betts, Middlebrooks, Delarosa, Workman, Ranaudo and Webster, if not Cecchini, Wright and Swihart too. Should be fun to watch even if they are losing more than winning.
.KillerBs said:
If I want to watch minor league baseball, I go to a local ballpark and sit outside under the stars. I don't see the need to pay MLB TV rates for the privilege.
Plympton91 said:
What? A 38 yr old catcher in obvious decline is something they should be considering for next year?
Plympton91 said:
Wouldn't it be more expensive than MLBTV to go to a minor league baseball game everyday?
As opposed to a 37 year old catcher in obvious decline being something that should have been considered for this year?Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
I don't watch minor league baseball everyday, and when I do, I watch it live. That's the point. I'm not interested in watching the Pawtucket Sea Dogs attempt to play major league teams.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
I understand this point, I really do. But personally I am frustrated with watching a listless team. I'm not faulting effort (in all cases), but they are playing without any sustained energy. If bringing up a bunch of the kids provides energy - then I'm inclined to watch that more than the product that is on the field thus far in 2014.Plympton91 said:
Why do you doubt he'd be a black hole? He has a .322 OBP and a .367 in AAA and is leading the IL in GIDP. How does that line project to MLB? It's got to be pretty bad (unfortunately I can't find the MLE calculator any more).Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
Vazquez has actually been hitting pretty well the last couple weeks. The best thing for him right now is to just leave him alone and let him get more AAA at bats and hopefully continue to adjust well to the new level. Nothing is going to be gained by bringing him up now.
This season has been awful so there's an understandably strong desire among many people to throw in the towel and play the kids as soon as possible just so that we won't have to continue watching this frustrating team continue floundering around. But it doesn't really make sense.
This season has been awful so there's an understandably strong desire among many people to throw in the towel and play the kids as soon as possible just so that we won't have to continue watching this frustrating team continue floundering around. But it doesn't really make sense.
He's had 3 months in AAA and one was bad (May.) Are we really going to condemn him on such a SSS? He's been at least average for most of his minor league career and has been hitting much better recently.Super Nomario said:
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Why do you think he will necessarily be better off for it? Moving as fast as possible is not always the best answer. He's just starting to have some success at the AAA level and now people want to throw him into the fire in the majors, where he'll probably struggle mightily. Why not let him take his time, build on his improvement in AAA and consolidate whatever he's learning down there, and come up at the end of the season?
Yes it matters. The kid is on a developmental path. If bringing him up before he has demonstrated that he's ready is going to mean the difference between winning and losing, you do it. If not, why would you mess with him?Papelbon's Poutine said:
While we're at it, the whole "they have X team's to climb over" is a silly one this early. Case in point, they now have to climb over just five, and getting to .500 would put them ahead of another two.
That's the kind of argument you use with a month left when you can't guarantee everyone is going to lose twenty more games.
If this team plays .500 for any kind of sustained stretch at all, overtaking those teams isn't going to be hard.
Besides, there are only three teams in the division to climb over and it would only take two and a half games a month to do it.
Ross and crew are better than what's in the minors. The Red Sox have talent in their minor league system. But for every Pedroia there are three dozen Lars Andersens.KillerBs said:
You play the kids on the farm to see what you have for 2015 and get them used to the show. Not because it'll be pretty.
It depends on what we're talking about. Overall as a prospect, there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic. If we're talking about how we'd expect him to hit at the major league level for the rest of 2014 and for 2015, it's probably going to be bad.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
Why not? We are condemning AJP for a bad stretch that was smaller (3 weeks) than a bad month, On May 30th he was batting ,288 and his OPS as .735. If that was his line at the end of the season everyone here would be talking about how he was a brilliant bridge year catcher while we try to get the kids ready.
There's a big difference between a 23 yr old making his way into the game and a 37 yr old fading out of it.NDame616 said: