What does 2023 look like?

snowmanny

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Talked to X and got the OK? I can't imagine Xander would care and I can't imagine why anyone else would care if he did care. That number is never getting retired, not for Bogaerts anyway.
 

Deweys New Stance

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I think it’s kinda odd because:
Turner wore 10 for the Dodgers; afaik he only wore #2 for the Mets a decade ago (edit: obviously he’s not taking 10 away from Story)
The Sox have famously kept #21 out of circulation for 26 seasons after a guy with a similar tenure left in free agency

With that said, they gave Mookie’s #50 to Kutter Crawford last season. And I don’t personally think it’s a big deal, and I suspect Xander doesn’t care much either.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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I don't see any backlash at all. Xander left as a free agent and the number is available. Life goes on.
Agreed. I didn't click the link, but I'm assuming that based on the Yankees anecdote, it's PeteAbe stirring shit trying to make number-gate a thing. Someone was going to wear #2 eventually. Might as well rip the band-aid off ASAP and there are worse choices than Turner to do that.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Do Red Sox articles generate an exorbitant amount of outrage? More than other teams?
I’m starting to suspect that if some”writer” or blogger or Tweeter or whoever posts/publishes/uploads/tweets something dumping on Bloom and/or the Sox in general, they get tons of clicks= money.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I don't know if it's about clicks = money (it might be). I've just noticed that PeteAbe more than most has been on the "shit on Bloom/Henry/Red Sox" train for a while, especially when it comes to the Bogaerts saga. He's turning into a bitter old crank...in fine Boston media fashion.
 

Yo La Tengo

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I think this is the portion of the article that needs some attention:

"The Red Sox have installed LED lights at Fenway Park, which use less energy and last longer. It also will allow for special effects during a game."

So help us gawd if they flash the lights following a home run. Are there any other possible "special effects during a game" that would not be a total embarrassment?
 

Minneapolis Millers

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I think this is the portion of the article that needs some attention:

"The Red Sox have installed LED lights at Fenway Park, which use less energy and last longer. It also will allow for special effects during a game."

So help us gawd if they flash the lights following a home run. Are there any other possible "special effects during a game" that would not be a total embarrassment?
Sure, but unlikely. Other parks have these. It allows them to use some color (probably red and blue). They’re not going to turn it into some garish neo-disco.
 

Rasputin

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Trlicek's Whip

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Looks like the Yankees have been doing this for a while. I want absolutely no part of that AA fan experience at Fenway Park.

View: https://twitter.com/andy_vasquez/status/728760126652452865
Most park experience at Yankee Stadium is really chintzy. The "aaaaaOOOOOOOOga" submarine crash alert when an opposing batter is at two strikes is especially epileptic, with the Diamondvision and every available banner light board in the stadium flashing clipart graphics. And I don't know if every park does this (I've only been in KC and Mets and NYY in the past few years), but Yankee Stadium serving up wall-to-wall sound and music cues to clap or "make some noise" is like Fred Norris drunk at his soundboard at 10:55 on a Stern broadcast.

At least they finally retired Cotton Eyed Joe as a stretch song a few years ago. One steps forward, two steps back I guess :)
 

joe dokes

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I don't know if it's about clicks = money (it might be). I've just noticed that PeteAbe more than most has been on the "shit on Bloom/Henry/Red Sox" train for a while, especially when it comes to the Bogaerts saga. He's turning into a bitter old crank...in fine Boston media fashion.
I think that they think that their competition is no longer other newspapers but the various hot take machines.
 

InsideTheParker

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Yankee Stadium looks junky even on the TV. Fenway is one of the few ballparks remaining that are not too covered with ads. If that changes, or other "stadium enhancements" happen, it will be a dark day for this particular fan. But I doubt they care about the likes of me, who throw so little $ in their direction.
 

YTF

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Yankee Stadium looks junky even on the TV. Fenway is one of the few ballparks remaining that are not too covered with ads. If that changes, or other "stadium enhancements" happen, it will be a dark day for this particular fan. But I doubt they care about the likes of me, who throw so little $ in their direction.
Extended advertising aside, it still seems strange that franchises go through all of these "theatrics" to draw/appeal to people who could not care less and in all likelihood won't invest themselves into the team while turning off many of those who are lifers. I guess they figure that eventually we'll be gone.
 

joe dokes

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I think that they think that their competition is no longer other newspapers but the various hot take machines.
They’re probably right.
I think they are, too. At the same time, the (shrinking) audience for newspapers probably doesn't care much for the hot-take machine, and, for the most part, the hot-take consumers don't care about newspapers at all. And finally, trained newspaper people like Abraham probably dont enjoy the hot-take stuff but have little choice. (But see Speier, who has a newspaper job but avoids the hot takes).
 

cornwalls@6

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Having been to a fair amount of other current MLB ballparks around the country, one of the things I’ve always appreciated about Fenway is how low it is on the scale of show biz/spectacle/bells and whistles. I hope these special effects lights aren’t a sign that it’s on the road to “make some noize” idiocy. I’m not optimistic though.
 
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YTF

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Having been to a fair amount of other current MLB ballparks around the country, one of things I’ve always appreciated about Fenway is how low it is on the scale of show biz/spectacle/bells and whistles it is. I hope these special effects lights aren’t a sign that it’s on the road to “make some noize” idiocy. I’m not optimistic though.
I've been to Camden Yards a couple of times, but not in the past 20 or so years. The thing that I loved about that park is that as the first of the "new era" of parks they got SO much right. Walking into Camden gave me the feel of what a baseball park should be. The architecture was a throwback to another day, but the park itself was built to watch baseball today and came slightly before the parks to follow were glitzed up.
 
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cornwalls@6

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I've been to Camdem Yard a couple of times, but not in the past 20 or so years. The thing that I loved about that park is that as the first of the "new era" of parks they got SO much right. Walking into Camden gave me the feel of what a baseball park should be. The architecture was a throwback to another day, but the park itself was built to watch baseball today and came slightly before the parks to follow were glitzed up.
Agree. It’s been 10 years for me, but it was still primarily a really good Baseball watching experience. Unlike so many other I’ve been to with the incessant, everybody clap your hands, racket.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Agree. It’s been 10 years for me, but it was still primarily a really good Baseball watching experience. Unlike so many other I’ve been to with the incessant, everybody clap your hands, racket.
It seems like MLB has an inferiority complex relative to the NBA. Personally, I find going to an NBA game kind of overwhelming - too much noise, too many flashing lights, too much idiotic "entertainment" during the breaks. What will be next after the strobe lights at the ballpark? The Red Sox City Dancers?
 

BornToRun

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You guys are boring. Maybe they'll flash lights for a few seconds. It'll probably look cool.

THE HORROR!
I‘m fine with lights. I think the pomp and circumstance you get with closer entrances, like Edwin Diaz, where they flash the lights is pretty cool but please spare us any of the obnoxious sound effects.
 

brs3

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Extended advertising aside, it still seems strange that franchises go through all of these "theatrics" to draw/appeal to people businesses who could not care less and in all likelihood won't invest themselves into the team while turning off many of those who are lifers. I guess they figure that eventually we'll be gone.
Replace people with businesses and read that again. Businesses buy entire rows every year, maybe even every series or even every game, and then give them to their execs, employees, clients, potential clients, friends, family. The casual fan/non fan will probably love the lightshow theatrics. Businesses continue to invest more in single games than baseball lifers will in an entire season between their ticket purchases and swag buying. Baseball lifers do not have any purchasing power to impact their experience at games. The Reds don't care if nobody comes, the Yankees & Red Sox don't care if lifers don't like the lightshow, because there are enough people & companies willing to pay and show up that lifers are a minority as far as what they care about.

That's a pretty negative view, but where's the lie?
 

moondog80

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I‘m fine with lights. I think the pomp and circumstance you get with closer entrances, like Edwin Diaz, where they flash the lights is pretty cool but please spare us any of the obnoxious sound effects.
Yeah, in certain situations it can really add to the experience. I'm even cool with Sweet Caroline. The thing I don't like is that every single microsecond of downtime needs to be filled with some gimmick or promotion. I see this at all levels, including minor leagues and college. It might even be worse there, in fact.

Also, get off my lawn.
 

BornToRun

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Yeah, in certain situations it can really add to the experience. I'm even cool with Sweet Caroline. The thing I don't like is that every single microsecond of downtime needs to be filled with some gimmick or promotion. I see this at all levels, including minor leagues and college. It might even be worse there, in fact.

Also, get off my lawn.
Oh no, I agree with you. Here and there is fine so long as it isn’t overused
 

mauidano

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Talked to X and got the OK? I can't imagine Xander would care and I can't imagine why anyone else would care if he did care. That number is never getting retired, not for Bogaerts anyway.
And this is it. It's nonsense to think otherwise. It was fun while it lasted with X but he left on his own and that number is available. Go get it JT!
 

uncannymanny

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Extended advertising aside, it still seems strange that franchises go through all of these "theatrics" to draw/appeal to people who could not care less and in all likelihood won't invest themselves into the team while turning off many of those who are lifers. I guess they figure that eventually we'll be gone.
I’m just going to guess that you’re the one who has the balance sheet upside down, and not the billionaires and finance departments running teams. They probably make 10x more off a bachelor party than a season ticket holder.
 

YTF

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I’m just going to guess that you’re the one who has the balance sheet upside down, and not the billionaires and finance departments running teams. They probably make 10x more off a bachelor party than a season ticket holder.
And do you think that they give a rat's ass about about the modern-day ballpark theatrics? The cost of beer and pre/post game activities are probably more of a concern.
 

uncannymanny

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And do you think that they give a rat's ass about about the modern-day ballpark theatrics? The cost of beer and pre/post game activities are probably more of a concern.
Yes. Do you think the teams are blindly making this choice?
 

soxhop411

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Yeah, in certain situations it can really add to the experience. I'm even cool with Sweet Caroline. The thing I don't like is that every single microsecond of downtime needs to be filled with some gimmick or promotion. I see this at all levels, including minor leagues and college. It might even be worse there, in fact.

Also, get off my lawn.
. Most people have the attention span of a gnat. MLB copying some of the things from the minors is fine with me. If it can keep people engaged in between innings and not on their phones etc.
 

YTF

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Yes. Do you think the teams are blindly making this choice?
Blindly, no. Do I question the effectiveness? Yes. The #1 complaint about the game is pace of play, not a lack of flashing lights and increased volume. IMHO this isn't bringing new fans to the park. It's an attempt to keep up with the other leagues that employ these methods, but the structure of the game is different. Each team isn't scoring 100 points with celebrations after each bucket. Baseball often requires a series of events to produce a single run. Hockey has built in occasions (icing, offsides, penalties, etc...) in which to injected this sort of thing. Baseball is different. 15-20 seconds now between pitches. Do they whoop it up as the pitcher is trying to figure out the signals being relayed into his hat? Sure there are opportunities now that are already filled with other novelties. I don't see where adding more lights and noise adds anything to the experience. Services and amenities? Sure, but that wasn't my claim.
 
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Max Power

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For me that was the "Woo Woo" noise after strikeouts
That doesn't bother me as much as the 5 seconds of music when a Red Sox pitcher gets 2 strikes on a batter. It showed up at the end of 2021 and stuck around all year. It seems to make the crowd quieter because it's short and confusing. I don't know why they keep doing it.
 

YTF

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Yeah, in certain situations it can really add to the experience. I'm even cool with Sweet Caroline. The thing I don't like is that every single microsecond of downtime needs to be filled with some gimmick or promotion. I see this at all levels, including minor leagues and college. It might even be worse there, in fact.

Also, get off my lawn.
Agreed. This is what I meant in another post about the structure of baseball being different. In between innings, great. Have your kiss cams, fan cams, sing-a-longs, sausage races, what have you. In game.. woo woo on a strike out, loud HR celebrations, the intro to "Walk This Way" when the opposing team gives up a key BB...OK, sure. But the key here is as you mention, "every single microsecond of downtime".
 

walt in maryland

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Most park experience at Yankee Stadium is really chintzy. The "aaaaaOOOOOOOOga" submarine crash alert when an opposing batter is at two strikes is especially epileptic, with the Diamondvision and every available banner light board in the stadium flashing clipart graphics. And I don't know if every park does this (I've only been in KC and Mets and NYY in the past few years), but Yankee Stadium serving up wall-to-wall sound and music cues to clap or "make some noise" is like Fred Norris drunk at his soundboard at 10:55 on a Stern broadcast.

At least they finally retired Cotton Eyed Joe as a stretch song a few years ago. One steps forward, two steps back I guess :)
They've also retired winning World Series, which is a huge step forward.:)
 

Yo La Tengo

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You guys are boring. Maybe they'll flash lights for a few seconds. It'll probably look cool.

THE HORROR!
As with most things, it depends. I'm fine with Sweet Caroline and I like player walk up music. Let's bring back the bullpen cart while we're at it (and Edwin Diaz's entrance is awesome). Big picture, I think giving players the chance to express themselves is great, doing something fun/engaging with the fans between innings is a plus, but the added "entertainment" during play undermines the ballpark experience for me. And, as a general rule, pre-packaged sounds and effects suck. (And, I'll add, this is a personal taste thing- you may love the "EVERYBODY CLAP YOUR HANDS" loop.)

For example, I really like the Mariners home field and watched a ton of games there but the constant noise and flashing graphics sometimes overwhelmed the game itself. Plus, the canned "enthusiasm" often felt out of sync with the actual game, as a 340 foot flyball that just cleared the fence to cut the lead to 8 runs during a day game in April was made to look pathetic with the echoing preprogrammed noise that came with a push of a button.

I don't think baseball needs to have stimuli every 5 seconds. Not every home run needs fireworks and being told to clap our hands does not make a 2 strike count more exciting. Fenway Park is a special place that is made less so by making it sound and look like every other ballpark. So, while flashing lights seem like a minor thing, it is the slippery slope that concerns me.
 
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8slim

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As with most things, it depends. I'm fine with Sweet Caroline and I like player walk up music. Let's bring back the bullpen cart while we're at it (and Edwin Diaz's entrance is awesome). Big picture, I think giving players the chance to express themselves is great, doing something fun/engaging with the fans between innings is a plus, but the added "entertainment" during play undermines the ballpark experience for me. And, as a general rule, pre-packaged sounds and effects suck. (And, I'll add, this is a personal taste thing- you may love the "EVERYBODY CLAP YOUR HANDS" loop.)

For example, I really like the Mariners home field and watched a ton of games there but the constant noise and flashing graphics sometimes overwhelmed the game itself. Plus, the canned "enthusiasm" often felt out of sync with the actual game, as a 340 foot flyball that just cleared the fence to cut the lead to 8 runs during a day game in April was made to look pathetic with the echoing preprogrammed noise that came with a push of a button.

I don't think baseball needs to have stimuli every 5 seconds. Not every home run needs fireworks and being told to clap our hands does not make a 2 strike count more exciting. Fenway Park is a special place that is made less so by making it sound and look like every other ballpark. So, while flashing lights seem like a minor thing, it is the slippery slope that concerns me.
I understand all of that. None of us want Fenway to resemble an NBA game in Oklahoma City.

I think the folks who run the game day experience have done a good job balancing the unique environment of the league's oldest venue with flourishes that keep modern fans engaged. I don't imagine that adding LED lights will upset that balance to any great degree. And if they go over the line it's not like they can't dial it back if enough fans express their displeasure.
 

cantor44

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As with most things, it depends. I'm fine with Sweet Caroline and I like player walk up music. Let's bring back the bullpen cart while we're at it (and Edwin Diaz's entrance is awesome). Big picture, I think giving players the chance to express themselves is great, doing something fun/engaging with the fans between innings is a plus, but the added "entertainment" during play undermines the ballpark experience for me. And, as a general rule, pre-packaged sounds and effects suck. (And, I'll add, this is a personal taste thing- you may love the "EVERYBODY CLAP YOUR HANDS" loop.)

For example, I really like the Mariners home field and watched a ton of games there but the constant noise and flashing graphics sometimes overwhelmed the game itself. Plus, the canned "enthusiasm" often felt out of sync with the actual game, as a 340 foot flyball that just cleared the fence to cut the lead to 8 runs during a day game in April was made to look pathetic with the echoing preprogrammed noise that came with a push of a button.

I don't think baseball needs to have stimuli every 5 seconds. Not every home run needs fireworks and being told to clap our hands does not make a 2 strike count more exciting. Fenway Park is a special place that is made less so by making it sound and look like every other ballpark. So, while flashing lights seem like a minor thing, it is the slippery slope that concerns me.
I so totally agree. The thing that I dislike about constant noise and video effects at sporting events is not necessarily that it is not traditional. It's that all that pumped out junk actually engenders a kind of passivity in the crowd. The "energy" is imposed on everyone, rather than organically generated from the crowd itself. Red Sox fans don't need that shit. The Brooklyn Dodgers had their "Sym-Phony" regular folks in the crowd who snuck their instruments into the stands and created an actual fan culture. I'd much rather have fans pounding kettle drums and blowing trombones, than speakers blasting bullshit top-40 songs and video game sound effects. The first is fun, celebratory, the second kinda soulless.
 

joe dokes

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As with most things, it depends. I'm fine with Sweet Caroline and I like player walk up music. Let's bring back the bullpen cart while we're at it (and Edwin Diaz's entrance is awesome). Big picture, I think giving players the chance to express themselves is great, doing something fun/engaging with the fans between innings is a plus, but the added "entertainment" during play undermines the ballpark experience for me. And, as a general rule, pre-packaged sounds and effects suck. (And, I'll add, this is a personal taste thing- you may love the "EVERYBODY CLAP YOUR HANDS" loop.)

For example, I really like the Mariners home field and watched a ton of games there but the constant noise and flashing graphics sometimes overwhelmed the game itself. Plus, the canned "enthusiasm" often felt out of sync with the actual game, as a 340 foot flyball that just cleared the fence to cut the lead to 8 runs during a day game in April was made to look pathetic with the echoing preprogrammed noise that came with a push of a button.

I don't think baseball needs to have stimuli every 5 seconds. Not every home run needs fireworks and being told to clap our hands does not make a 2 strike count more exciting. Fenway Park is a special place that is made less so by making it sound and look like every other ballpark. So, while flashing lights seem like a minor thing, it is the slippery slope that concerns me.
That's pretty much where I am. At my last Fenway trip in September, I dont recall being overwhelmed by the noise *during* the inning. My gauge is simply whether I can talk with my friend while the game is going on. (It's always about the game, I promise!) . As long as there's 15,000 people there, there's always a continuous organic buzz that needs no augmentation; and it apears management feels the same way.
I've made peace with whatever they want to do between innings. (and my best baseball friend and I are about halfway through composing utterly NSFW lyrics to Sweet Caroline -- beyond the natural creepy innuendo of the song -- that will never be spoken of except between us. Will take time, as we only work on it while at games once or twice a year).
 

manny

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I am more old-school too but I think clearly there is some demand for this "gimmickry"--a pretty common refrain you have from people that go to minor league games are that they are "so much fun" and/or "family-friendly" (i.e. entertaining children with stuff other than the game). I am by no means advocating for that but there likely is an inverse relationship between degree of baseball fandom and degree of liking this stuff. And MLB does seem to want to attract the more casual fans. I think they also don't necessarily "not care" about the diehards but know that a diehard is not going to stop going to games because of this stuff.

But I do think an even more common refrain you have from people that go to minor league games is how cheap it is. For as much as baseball tries to do stuff to keep baseball popularity from diminishing, I really think lowering the cost of the game would go a long game toward growing the game. I'm sure everyone here has a memory of going to a game or multiple games when they were young and that really grew their interest in the game. Of course baseball would lose some ticket and concessions revenue, but all I hear is all the money is in TV deals and I think increasing access and attendance in-person would eventually increase TV ratings and baseball popularity overall.

Sorry for derailing this thread further but just thinking that if you were to ask a family of four would they rather go to four relatively affordable games a year with no theatrics or one game a year paying up the ass with all the theatrics, most would choose the former. I know it's probably not happening anytime soon, particularly at Fenway.
 

Cassvt2023

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10 of the Sox first 17 games are at home. They play Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Tampa Bay and Anaheim. A good start is very doable with this schedule. Sometimes that's all it takes for a team to be off and running, especially with all the new faces. I have hope.
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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Reading these comments about the lights you'd think it was 1960 and we are talking about Comiskey Park scoreboard. To answer the thread title: it'll look a bit clearer and brighter, and hopefully that applies to the team on the field, too.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I still love the full spectrum glow of sulphur lights over a park at night- with all the hot humid air almost visible. But I get it and LED’s have some decent qualities beyond cost.
 

JM3

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So Cotillo doesn't have Pivetta in his projected rotation...

STARTING PITCHERS (5): LHP Chris Sale, RHP Corey Kluber, RHP Garrett Whitlock, RHP Brayan Bello, LHP James Paxton
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/02/red-sox-roster-projection-includes-nick-pivetta-in-surprise-role-bobby-dalbec-on-team.html

Seems much more sensible to trade him at that point than do this...

RELIEF PITCHERS (8): RHP Kenley Jansen, RHP Chris Martin, RHP John Schreiber, RHP Tanner Houck, LHP Joely Rodríguez, LHP Richard Bleier, RHP Ryan Brasier, RHP Nick Pivetta
But we shall see.

This is the rest...

CATCHERS (2): C Reese McGuire, C Jorge Alfaro

INFIELDERS (7): 1B Triston Casas, 2B Christian Arroyo, SS Kiké Hernández, 3B Rafael Devers, 1B Bobby Dalbec, INF/OF Niko Goodrum, INF/DH Justin Turner

INJURED LIST (2): 2B/SS Trevor Story, 2B/SS Adalberto Mondesí

OUTFIELDERS (4): LF Masataka Yoshida, CF Adam Duvall, RF Alex Verdugo, OF Rob Refsnyder