If you're taking Jones from NYG, do you try the DET approach and draft one of the stud WRs at 6, doing WR or OL maneuvering at 34 and 47?
What do you want Pats to do with #3?
- Thread starter BigSoxFan
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100%. Move down if you don't like the options at 3 are want to just get more value and build out the team, maybe including a QB flyer in round 2 or later. Don't move down out of some crazy calculus that seven different things will subsequently fall your way and allow you to move back up for a different QB.
Yeah, I can see this happening.
Yeah, then you're stuck with Jones and Jacoby as your QB, or you trade back again and get Penix, or you try for your future QB next year and use #6 to draft Alt or Nabers or whomever.
No doubt there's risk involved in all these potential moves.
Just looking at Jones’ contract, it is mostly base. He did not get a very large bonus. So he comes with a $36 million cap hit. That makes it a non-starter.
Just this season though and that is why NYG would have to pay more to include him. I think there is a 1% chance in it happening but it is fun to game theory around it while we kill another 9hrs.
Sorry, but pretty sure everyone knows this, Tom. I really wish today had a FF button.
I think you're right, and I don't think it's a bad plan.
Come on, man. #Resist!
Is there a way for NFL teams to trade a player but retain some of the contract? I thought that was a baseball thing. I could be wrong but I thought in football you have to restructure and then trade. Not sure why I think that. I probably made it up.
The bonuses already paid to Jones would be attributed to NYG and NE would be on the hook for remaining salary guarantees. There are some post June 1 things that can further stretch out the cap hits but that is effectively how it works. NYG couldn't just decide to pay 1/2 the remaining salary though. That is a baseball/hockey thing.
I keep thinking about these second read accuracy jump off numbers in the piece that @Cellar-Door helpfully posted and what they mean for the difficulties of projecting a QB. Like, we know that, in general, good NFL QBs need to be good at second read (and more throws). But looking at the top six QBs this year, we see that they have been very successful despite having considerably lower accuracy in their second reads. In effect, then, we want to know if they will develop this as a pro despite them not really being pushed to do it to succeed in college. That’s a super hard thing to do.
We've talked about the WRs and OTs and QBs. TE wise I would be happy with Sanders, Sinnott, Theo Johnson, or Stover sometime day 2 or 3. For Sinnott think LaPorta, for Stover think well-rounded good athlete (in-line), Johnson is a high end athlete and in-line guy, and Sanders is Njoku.
Johnson is fast but he’s straight line. His 3 cone was very unimpressive given his other testing and you can see it on the field in his lack of COD and stiffness in his routes. As a backup who can get a couple vertical chunk plays for you, maybe he can contribute.
I disagree a bit here. His shuttle was a 4.15 or 4.19 (93rd percentile for his size) and his cone is a 7.15 which is 69th percentile for his size. His CoD to me wasn't as much of an issue as the lack of route refinement vs tighter man coverage and waist-bending as a blocker. I think he could evolve into a starting in-line guy but no, not an elite one. Still, a starting in-line guy has some value.
Quick edit: I think his routes actually have some promise.
Keep in mind I didn't have a chance to look at everyone but:
LT top tier is: Joe Alt and Amarius Mims. Olu Fashanu is right behind them. Tyler Guyton is up there too but he is not a year one starter.
RT top tier is: Latham and then a dropoff and Fuaga.
Day 2 there are multiple options for potential LTs: Paul, Fisher, Amegadjie, Suamataia, Coleman are your best bets. Rosengarten might be able to play there too but I think it is likely he is a RT.
Day 2 or late day 3 I think Caedan Wallace has a chance to develop into an RT. Foster can be a swing OT.
I do so 9-10 potential starting left tackles though which is a lot. Last year we had a top 4-5 guys and then a huge dropoff and no good day 2 prospects. This year it is very different.
Grade wise: I see the top 4 guys as top 15 - 20 picks, 5-6 as 20-35, 7-10 as 30/35-64, 11-14 as 55/64-90. So a chunk of a range.
I am lower on Fuaga, Fautanu, and Fashanu vs consensus and higher on Mims and Guyton.
How dare you not look at everyone and post it here for free!??!!?
This is why SoSH remains the best. And also, to me, more reason to stick & pick a QB at #3. Based on your rankings, there should be good OT's available into Round 3, in other words, certainly at #34 and likely at #68 as well.
Not exactly. The Jets paid half of the roster bonus. As far as I can tell you cannot pay the salary in a trade. You can negotiate on bonuses. So in a Daniel Jones trade... can't touch the base but could pay his $500k workout bonus.
If they were trading Jones and the receiving team wanted them to eat money they'd have to re-negotiate the deal to transfer base to bonus.
Personally as long as Maye holds up a Patriots jersey and smiles for the cameras, I'll be happy whether they draft the Coleman twins or not.
Given the similarity of your rankings, if Paul's on the board at #34 would you pick him, or trade down/wait for #68 and hope one of Rosengarten/Fisher/etc. is still there? Or does that depend upon which WRs/others are still available at #34?
One thing I don't understand is that if you are convinced Maye can be the franchise quarterback, why does trading out under any circumstances make sense? Even in the scenario when they offer up a massive draft haul I don't see how that helps because I don't see a way to acquire one in the future without giving up that massive haul.
Yeah, best case scenario you need to use the 2025 first you get for trading down to trade up for a QB next year.
Yeah, you only do the trade if you're out on Maye as a potential franchise guy.
I think the majority of us agree there is no trade that makes sense if Maye is there at 3 but what else are we going to do to entertain ourselves for another 5hrs?
Hold out hope that they trade back into the 1st to grab a sliding OT or WR? Also, drink. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it.
Wait, did you mean the 5 hours from now until the clock starts? Or clock starts until the end of the first round?
I guess that doesn't really change my statement though. I still plan on doing both.
What's the difference?
Wilson was due a 5.5M salary this year.
The Jets are paying 2.75M, and the broncos are paying him 2.75M this year.
I would ignore my board and use a consensus one. Paul is probably a little rich at 34 and I would guess might even be there at 68.
34 is tough because the first and second tier of WRs and OTs are gone. I happen to love Xavier Worthy but he isn’t coming here.
There is also the question of whether or not Coleman is a good fit with Maye. It’s mixed.
Wilson was owed a base salary of $1.055M (he still is) and a roster bonus of just under 4.5M. The Jets paid 2.76M of the bonus, effectively halving what DEN would owe. But they paid none of it from base salary.
Jones for example is owed $30M in BASE, and no roster bonus. AS far as I can tell, a team cannot pay any of a player's BASE salary (what we would consider salary) in a trade in the NFL. They can pay a portion of the bonuses, as the Jets did.
So that is the difference.
It's a PoS compared to other years but somehow I still got to evaluate close to 60 players.
Here is the link.
But we're talking about, can the Giants pay half of Jones 30M salary to facilitate a trade?
So what's the difference if the Giants just pay him 15M as a bonus, and his acquiring team pays him the rest of his 15M as salary?
This happens all the time.
I don't understand the issue here?
It's downright incredible how many variations of this exact same report we've read in the past two weeks.
Right, it basically says that they are inclined to keep the pick but won't if they get an offer that they like.
Hope they stay put. Next years crop of QB's sounds nowhere near this one. And if they did, have fun trying to convince a team to trade out of it. Doesn't seem smart or worth it all. You need an elite QB to go anywhere. Especially, the AFC.
If it's the Vikings? Probably not for me. That team is primed to pick in the 20s for the foreseeable future. LV? Much more attractive.
Right. Which is basically a description of established reality. Gravity is still in effect too.
This has been my concern all along. I mean, theoretically we'd have another 2025 1st rounder (from the Giants/Vikings/whoever), but there's no guarantee either of our picks would be a Top 5 pick, and I don't see why we're any more likely to find The Guy (TM) next year than this year.
Also, to @SoxFanInPdx's point, here are the ages of some of the other AFC QBs:
- Patrick Mahomes, 28
- Josh Allen, 27
- Joe Burrow, 27
- Lamar Jackson, 27
- Tua T., 26
- Justin Herbert, 26
- Lawrence, 24
- CJ Stroud, 22
- Anthony Richardson, 21
This isn't the mid-late 2010s, when Brady, Manning, Big Ben, Flacco and Rivers were all in their 30s and nearing the end of the line. The Pats are going to need to compete with this murderer's row in the AFC for the foreseeable future, and they can't do that without a QB on their level, and the most likely place to find him is tonight at pick #3.
Sorry, but you were supposed to tweet that and attribute gravity being in effect to an unnamed league executive.
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They would have to get him to agree to re-negotiate his contract. Could he be willing to do that? Maybe? But most likely he'd want to get something out of it, like more guarantees in future years, otherwise he has no incentive.
The key here is... you can split bonus money in the existing contract however you want, you can't split the actual guaranteed salary. So the Jets could trade Zach Wilson and pay some of his bonus without him being involved. If his SALARY had been $5M... they would have had to have him re-negotiate in order to pay that.
Teams can't unilaterally change a contract to make the salary into bonus.
As to whether it happens all the time.... kind of? But not really, ususally the player is getting something in terms of guarantees or something else. So sometimes it's guaranteeing an extra year to get a trade to go through, sometimes (like with Diggs) they might get rid of un-guaranteed future years to let a guy hit FA earlier... but in all of those cases the player has to re-work the contract and he has to get something for it.
On the case of Jones... he has $81M guaranteed on his deal, if you want him to re-work the deal to convert some of his 2024-25 salary to roster bonus.... you have to give him something, whether that is adding money this year, or guaranteeing an extra year of Base in 2025-26, he doesn't have much incentive to just do you a solid.
Would you consider McConkey at 34? I definitely would, he might not be a great fit with Maye next season but I'm not counting on Maye next season in fact I'd prefer he sit the majority if not all his rookie season. Let him develop and McConkey will be a go to 85/1100 yd receiver waiting for him in 2025.