Well Done: Cooks' Season One in NE

E5 Yaz

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Mike Reiss ESPN Staff Writer
With ESPN's Diana Russini tweeting this morning that the Patriots are considering a trade of cornerback Malcolm Butler to the New Orleans Saints in a deal that involves wide receiver Brandin Cooks, here are a few thoughts:

1) If the Patriots deal Butler, it would be economic-based with the thinking that an extension is highly unlikely after his restricted free-agent season of 2017. So it would be similar to the Chandler Jones trade from last year from the team's perspective: Get something for a player you don't believe will be part of your long-term plans because of a difference of opinion on value;

2) The sides were close to a deal last year but couldn't push it over the goal-line. There has been no advancement since that time, and if anything, Butler could make a stronger case to hold firm in his stance after a solid 2016 season;

3) Trading Butler and using some of the money to sign a player outside of the system in Stephon Gilmore comes with risk – both on the field and from a perception standpoint with players. Butler is almost everything the Patriots could have wanted, and those are the types of players the team usually wants to reward. But in this case, he would be leaving the organization to get his big financial reward.
 

lexrageorge

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And what's Butler going to do if he doesn't sign the tender for a trade? Hold out? Bill already made his move with Gilmore; he's not gonna budge for a top of the line contract. One issue I see is the Saints might be scared off by long-term questions, but they have the same issues with Cooks, albeit an extra year. Pats will have to pay for that extra year, probably a 3rd or 4th.
He could sign it after 4/22 and play for $4M. Just saying that if he feels that the Saints aren't going to extend him, then he will probably wait to see if another team would be willing to come in and offer him a better deal. Worse comes to worse, he signs for the $4M. He's not compelled to sign anything today.
 

DJnVa

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sure if he's had conversations with them already.

But the original post was about if he didn't think the Saints were going to offer him a suitable deal.

If he's agreed to a deal or close enough then sure.

But the question then is can they get him cheap enough to say it is a better move than signing a top UFA and trading Cooks elsewhere.
I guess I don't know why the team matters at this point--his choices would be hold out or play for $4m. I don't think it really matters a bunch to him which team is paying him. NE gave him his chance, and NO is closer to home.
 

lexrageorge

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I guess I don't know why the team matters at this point--his choices would be hold out or play for $4m. I don't think it really matters a bunch to him which team is paying him. NE gave him his chance, and NO is closer to home.
Except that there is still time for another team to come in with an offer sheet. So why sign that tender today unless he felt he could get an extension from the Saints.
 

BigJimEd

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I guess I don't know why the team matters at this point--his choices would be hold out or play for $4m. I don't think it really matters a bunch to him which team is paying him. NE gave him his chance, and NO is closer to home.
The team doesn't matter but as lex has said numerous times, the timing does. Pats can't trade him without signing him. Butler is in no hurry to sign. Why sign now just to facilitate a trade? Why not wait and see if there are offers.


Edit: lex beat me to it. or what he said
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The team doesn't matter but as lex has said numerous times, the timing does. Pats can't trade him without signing him. Butler is in no hurry to sign. Why sign now just to facilitate a trade? Why not wait and see if there are offers.


Edit: lex beat me to it. or what he said
I think it's the same reason that any free agent signs fast. If something is being discussed with the Saints, Butler's agent knows what it means in terms of contract. He also surely is talking with other teams about his player and knows what the market is for a good free agent that costs a first round pick.

Butler can shop whatever the terms of the Saints deal would be and the agent will know immediately if another team could do better. I mean, I suppose it's possible that a team that wants Butler could be out there saying, "we don't know yet whether we're going to make him an offer," but if there's significant money on the table for a trade with the Saints, you have to decide fast whether to jump or not because you can't assume it's going to be there tomorrow.

I agree with everyone saying that there's no way a trade happens with Butler playing under the tender amount. But I think it's very very unlikely that a trade involving Butler could get past one phone call without his agent being instrumental in the discussion and getting terms with which Butler would rather be traded than being an RFA.
 

MainerInExile

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Butler and his agent know it's unlikely they'll sign a big deal with a team besides the Pats this year, because of his RFA status. But they'd be stupid not to use the RFA status to talk to other teams and establish his market value. That's why he won't sign the tender soon. However, if he talks to the Saints and is comfortable with the extension he would get with them, I'd imagine he'd sign to facilitate the trade.
 

E5 Yaz

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I think it's the same reason that any free agent signs fast. If something is being discussed with the Saints, Butler's agent knows what it means in terms of contract. He also surely is talking with other teams about his player and knows what the market is for a good free agent that costs a first round pick.
Especially now that Gilmore and Bouye appear to be off the market.
 

kelpapa

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I have not heard anything about his willingness to sign a tender. I was just explaining his options, as there seems to be a misunderstanding from time to time:

1.) He could sign his tender today, and try to work out an extension with the Pats; or New Orleans if he's indeed traded there.

2.) He could wait until 4/22 to see what his market would be.

He's unlikely to go with option 1 unless he feels an extension is imminent, either with New England or the Saints. Or if he feels that the market for his services is nil. Otherwise, he's giving up what little leverage he has.
I didn't realize he had that leverage. Thanks for clarifying.
 

nothumb

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I think it's the same reason that any free agent signs fast. If something is being discussed with the Saints, Butler's agent knows what it means in terms of contract. He also surely is talking with other teams about his player and knows what the market is for a good free agent that costs a first round pick.

Butler can shop whatever the terms of the Saints deal would be and the agent will know immediately if another team could do better. I mean, I suppose it's possible that a team that wants Butler could be out there saying, "we don't know yet whether we're going to make him an offer," but if there's significant money on the table for a trade with the Saints, you have to decide fast whether to jump or not because you can't assume it's going to be there tomorrow.

I agree with everyone saying that there's no way a trade happens with Butler playing under the tender amount. But I think it's very very unlikely that a trade involving Butler could get past one phone call without his agent being instrumental in the discussion and getting terms with which Butler would rather be traded than being an RFA.
Agree with all of this. This is all either a total smokescreen to help out Payton, or the parties know what it will take for Butler to sign and think they can get there.
 

pedroia'sboys

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According to Reiss both sides were close last year what the heck happened. They messed up should of closed the deal when they had 2 years of leverage. Probably would of signed for 8-10 mill per.
 

DJnVa

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The team doesn't matter but as lex has said numerous times, the timing does. Pats can't trade him without signing him. Butler is in no hurry to sign. Why sign now just to facilitate a trade? Why not wait and see if there are offers.
I mean, okay.

How many FA are signing today? How long is the FA signing period?
 

BigJimEd

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I mean, okay.

How many FA are signing today? How long is the FA signing period?
Not sure your point?
My post was in response to a post that Butler would sign the RFA without knowing what NO was offering or even knowing that they aren't offering a suitable deal for him.
If that was the case I'm not sure why he wouldn't wait as long as possible.

But imo this is all moot unless you actually think he would sign the RFA so the Pats chips trade him without having a decent idea that a new contact could be worked out.
And If you think that then I'm not sure there's much more I can say that might convince you otherwise.
 

Van Everyman

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Malcom, stay?
Brown is staying regardless.

Given the point upthread about Butler's agent being green, this is an interesting development. If you are Butler, do you take a (slightly?) below market deal now? Or do you wait a year for your big payday, hope you play well and don't get hurt? Or do you try to wait this out?

Do we still have the poster on this board who was an agent? Would be fascinated to know what SOP for this kind of negotiation from a player's standpoint.
 

DJnVa

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Not sure your point?
My point was that sometimes players and teams move quickly and while of course Butler could sit and wait and see what other offers may or may not come in, there is precedence for players not really waiting all that long--like the myriad of FA who signed one first day.

Or, shorter, I'm bored and want something to happen.
 

ehaz

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Really hoping that we keep Butler at least for next season.

Maybe you can trade Jimmy for #12, and the Saints would be content having back to back picks at 11/12 in exchange for Cooks if BB wants him that badly.
 

One Red Seat

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Really hoping that we keep Butler at least for next season.

Maybe you can trade Jimmy for #12, and the Saints would be content having back to back picks at 11/12 in exchange for Cooks if BB wants him that badly.
Reportedly, BB did not want to give up our own pick #32 for Cooks so, can't imagine we are trading JG for pick 12 & then giving that up for Cooks
 

ehaz

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Reportedly, BB did not want to give up our own pick #32 for Cooks so, can't imagine we are trading JG for pick 12 & then giving that up for Cooks
I thought it was the other way around?

the Patriots offered the 32nd pick in the draft, but the Saints are looking for one in the middle of the opening round, per multiple sources.
Maybe I missed where this was refuted.
 

tims4wins

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Cooks is under contract for 2 more years. Then he is going to want a huge payday. Why would the Pats be interested? I just don't understand this.
 

gammoseditor

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Cooks is under contract for 2 more years. Then he is going to want a huge payday. Why would the Pats be interested? I just don't understand this.
Malcolm is under contract for 1 more year, then he is going to want a huge payday.

Don't get me wrong, I love Malcom and don't want to see him go. But Cooks at his contract probably has more value than Malcom at his.
 

DJnVa

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Cooks is under contract for 2 more years. Then he is going to want a huge payday. Why would the Pats be interested? I just don't understand this.
Maybe they see 2 years are the realistic Brady window and then it's a reset anyway?

I know BB always looks ahead, but if he thinks Butler isn't staying, then maybe he'd prefer 2 years of Cooks.
 

Valek123

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Malcolm is under contract for 1 more year, then he is going to want a huge payday.

Don't get me wrong, I love Malcom and don't want to see him go. But Cooks at his contract probably has more value than Malcom at his.
With BB's relationship with Payton I always wonder if this was to smoke out other teams interested in Cooks and increase leverage to get Malcolm to sign an extension... There just always seems to be more to leaked Patriots reports.
 

tims4wins

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Malcolm is under contract for 1 more year, then he is going to want a huge payday.

Don't get me wrong, I love Malcom and don't want to see him go. But Cooks at his contract probably has more value than Malcom at his.
True, I just figured he would be easier to sign to a fair deal than Cooks, but this doesn't seem to be playing out that way

Maybe they see 2 years are the realistic Brady window and then it's a reset anyway?

I know BB always looks ahead, but if he thinks Butler isn't staying, then maybe he'd prefer 2 years of Cooks.
Fair point, and the Pats could walk away with a 3rd round comp pick if they let him walk after the two years
 

lexrageorge

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My point was that sometimes players and teams move quickly and while of course Butler could sit and wait and see what other offers may or may not come in, there is precedence for players not really waiting all that long--like the myriad of FA who signed one first day.

Or, shorter, I'm bored and want something to happen.
The difference is that the first day feeding frenzy is always focused around unrestricted free agents, and usually the most sought after UFA's. If there is a market for Butler as an RFA, it could very well take a few days to develop; teams try to sign guys with no strings attached first.

Now, if Butler's agent is already talking to the Saints, and the Saints have given him the warm and fuzzies about a post-trade extension, then Butler probably signs the tender.
 

DJnVa

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Even more than that, they may have also decided that they simply don't want to franchise Butler next year for some reason, and it's 2 years of Cooks versus 1 of Butler.
 

I am an Idiot

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What does that mean? He wanted BB to give up his leverage and offer a contract equivalent to an UFA this year?
Pretty much. His agent is basically a used car salesman. He's not being advised by the best and brightest.
 

ehaz

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Just now on WEEI -- Dale & Holley saying they got a text from a member of the media who said "brace the Pats fans because this trade Butler/Cooks trade is happening"
 

Van Everyman

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Plan B if Malcolm doesn't come back?

Bill Burt‏ @BurtTalksSports
Bill Burt Retweeted Rich Cimini

Would Bill Belichick take Revis? You're darn right he would ... but at his price. Stay tuned.

Bill Burt added,

Rich CiminiVerified account @RichCimini
And now it's official: The Jets have released Darrelle Revis. #Jets