The underthrown ball to Henry (as compared to Burrow's perfectly-thrown ball to Gesicki in virtually the same spot) is a stark reminder of non-exceptionality. But it is better than what came before.
Week 1: Game Balls vs Bengals
- Thread starter Eddie Jurak
- Start date
Sorry, yes, I was referring to the fact that he has not called plays previously.
Brissett was smack dab in the middle of the pack in terms of EPA/play in Week 1, pending tonight’s game. This is exactly what you wanna see from him, presnap acumen, steady under pressure, converts some key third downs, and isn’t putting you in several backbreaking plays per game.
Agree, caveat that our most talented QB is not starting yet. But Thornton has been judged a complete failure until now. Keion White was buried down the depth chart. OLine fill ins Robinson, Michael Jordan and Caedan Wallace as a TE. Probably others who could end up being more successful in 2024 than previously thought.
Maybe it’s just that the Pats actually won. We will see.
The biggest surprise for me was how clean they played, night and day from the preseason.
Also, Brissett staying under control was huge.
Also, Brissett staying under control was huge.
A comparison between yesterday's game and Brissett's first start for New England in 2016:
Brissett: 15-24, 121 yards, 1 sack for 1 yard, 0 TD, 0 INT, 75.2 rating, 7 rushes, 32 yards, 4.6 ypc
Stevenson: 120 yards on 25 attempts, 4.8 ypc, 1 TD
Brissett: 11-19, 103 yards, 1 sack for 6 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 72.9 rating, 8 rushes, 48 yards, 6 ypc, 1 rushing TD
LeGarrette Blount: 105 yards on 24 rushes, 4.4 ypc, 2 TD
One difference is that Brissett played with a broken hand for a good portion of the 2nd half in 2016.
Brissett: 15-24, 121 yards, 1 sack for 1 yard, 0 TD, 0 INT, 75.2 rating, 7 rushes, 32 yards, 4.6 ypc
Stevenson: 120 yards on 25 attempts, 4.8 ypc, 1 TD
Brissett: 11-19, 103 yards, 1 sack for 6 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 72.9 rating, 8 rushes, 48 yards, 6 ypc, 1 rushing TD
LeGarrette Blount: 105 yards on 24 rushes, 4.4 ypc, 2 TD
One difference is that Brissett played with a broken hand for a good portion of the 2nd half in 2016.
He was the playcaller in 09 (looked it up and that was weird, Jauron fired the OC right before the season started, literally 10 days before the opener, after pre-season games, promoted AVP and made him playcaller), and he called plays in one playoff game from the Browns when Stefanski was out.
Here's another thing I loved about yesterday's game. The Pats are up 16-10 and punt the ball to Cincy with 3:14 left in the game, a great punt and excellent coverage, pinning the Bengals back at their own 10 yard line. At this point, we might be figuring that this is the last drive for Cincy, so it's time for the Pats' defense to step up. Here's the four plays:
1-10, Burrow under pressure, incomplete
2-10, Burrow under pressure, incomplete
3-10, Burrow under pressure, complete for 5 yards
4-5, Cincy punts
Ok so at that point, they figured deep in their own end, with the 2:00 warning plus three timeouts left, punt it and force NE to give up the ball. So their guy hits an absolute moonshot of a punt and the Pats get the ball at their own 25. Now it's up to the offense to run out the clock if possible, or at least keep the ball long enough to make it nearly impossible for Cincy to drive the length of the field for the winning TD. Here's how the Pats' offensive possession went:
1-10, Stevenson run for 5 yards
2-5, Stevenson run for 9 yards
1-10, Stevenson run for 3 yards
2-7, Stevenson run for 9 yards
And that was followed by three kneel downs for the win.
On all four of those running plays, they put Wallace in as an extra blocker. Telegraphing to the world that the Pats were running, and they picked up 26 yards on 4 carries against a run-heavy defense.
So in the last 3+ minutes, we saw: (1) excellent job by the special teams pinning Cincy deep in their own end, (2) excellent job by the defense, holding the Bengals to a 3-and-out, and (3) excellent job by the offense running out the clock when everyone on earth knew they were running the ball.
All three phases - excellent job there at the end.
1-10, Burrow under pressure, incomplete
2-10, Burrow under pressure, incomplete
3-10, Burrow under pressure, complete for 5 yards
4-5, Cincy punts
Ok so at that point, they figured deep in their own end, with the 2:00 warning plus three timeouts left, punt it and force NE to give up the ball. So their guy hits an absolute moonshot of a punt and the Pats get the ball at their own 25. Now it's up to the offense to run out the clock if possible, or at least keep the ball long enough to make it nearly impossible for Cincy to drive the length of the field for the winning TD. Here's how the Pats' offensive possession went:
1-10, Stevenson run for 5 yards
2-5, Stevenson run for 9 yards
1-10, Stevenson run for 3 yards
2-7, Stevenson run for 9 yards
And that was followed by three kneel downs for the win.
On all four of those running plays, they put Wallace in as an extra blocker. Telegraphing to the world that the Pats were running, and they picked up 26 yards on 4 carries against a run-heavy defense.
So in the last 3+ minutes, we saw: (1) excellent job by the special teams pinning Cincy deep in their own end, (2) excellent job by the defense, holding the Bengals to a 3-and-out, and (3) excellent job by the offense running out the clock when everyone on earth knew they were running the ball.
All three phases - excellent job there at the end.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bill-belichick-has-shopped-mac-jones-this-offseason
No actual reports to my knowledge. If you find one that is real sourced reporting, $50 to the Jimmy Fund.
I'm standing by my assertion of bullshit but I'll tone it down, thanks. This mythology that BB hated Mac and played him out of spite or some other crap is nonsense. He was part of the crew that chose him.
SI report
Bleacher Report. This is reporting on a paywalled ESPN article by Wickersham. The actual quote is the Wickersham story:
This is now derailing the thread. Any further comments can go into a more appropriate thread or my inbox.
Mayo and the coaching staff
Dugger/Gonzo/White
Entire special teams
the offensive line
And the Bengals offense for not showing up for the game.
I'm not going to get super excited about this one just yet. It's fun to win a game, but the Pats played with the lead, and were able to move the ball on the ground. If Cincy had jumped out to a 10-0 lead, I didn't see anything in this Pats offense that would lead me to believe they'd be able to come back. Cincy just couldn't do shit. Chase playing 80% of the snaps after getting food poisoning Friday, and Tee Higgins being unavailable killed them and Burrow was rusty as hell (not to mention letting Mixon and Tyler Boyd walk for a combined 10mil this season came back to bite them.
Oh and game ball to embedded Patriot, Mike Gesicki for not completing the catch, leading to the strip at the goal line a couple of plays later.
Dugger/Gonzo/White
Entire special teams
the offensive line
And the Bengals offense for not showing up for the game.
I'm not going to get super excited about this one just yet. It's fun to win a game, but the Pats played with the lead, and were able to move the ball on the ground. If Cincy had jumped out to a 10-0 lead, I didn't see anything in this Pats offense that would lead me to believe they'd be able to come back. Cincy just couldn't do shit. Chase playing 80% of the snaps after getting food poisoning Friday, and Tee Higgins being unavailable killed them and Burrow was rusty as hell (not to mention letting Mixon and Tyler Boyd walk for a combined 10mil this season came back to bite them.
Oh and game ball to embedded Patriot, Mike Gesicki for not completing the catch, leading to the strip at the goal line a couple of plays later.
You do realize that the story is about as well-sourced as you're ever going to get. No GM is going to go on the record to be quoted as "Bill called me about Mac for a 3rd round pick, but it never went anywhere". That just doesn't happen in the NFL.
There's enough out there that is certainly more probable than not that Bill was open to trading Mac after the disastrous 2022 season. Mac was also insubordinate as well as ineffective, and that is just not something Bill typically tolerates. What we do know (from A Football Life) is that Bill would sit down and discuss personnel with Kraft.
What we don't know is (a) how hard Kraft actually pushed back on the suggestion of trading Mac; and (b) how hard Bill tried to sell Kraft on the idea. The latter was certainly part of Bill's job description when he was in New England, as was ultimately pulling the trigger on drafting a QB in the first round in 2021. Nobody disputes that, and nobody here is pining for Bill. People are just stating facts. Another fact is that White, Dugger, Stevenson, Andrews, Onwenu, and Brissett (lol) were all drafted by Bill.
I think Bill would have shopped his own mother if he thought it could lead to more wins for the team, so him shopping Mac doesn't seem even remotely far fetched.
Kraft stopping Bill? I doubt it, myself. I feel like as the Krafts began knifing Bill in the back with their friendly media, Bill's folks were starting to do the same to Kraft, and that's all this shit really is/was.
If Dallas shits the bed later this season as they normally do, I'm still betting Bill ends up there.
Now back to talking about Mike Gesicki saving the game for us yesterday.
Kraft stopping Bill? I doubt it, myself. I feel like as the Krafts began knifing Bill in the back with their friendly media, Bill's folks were starting to do the same to Kraft, and that's all this shit really is/was.
If Dallas shits the bed later this season as they normally do, I'm still betting Bill ends up there.
Now back to talking about Mike Gesicki saving the game for us yesterday.
So what you're suggesting - and I'm just going on the facts here - is that BB essentially quiet quit. BB wanted to get rid of a player but was forced to play him and ultimately create his own demise as a coach.
Nevermind that Kraft literally referenced a problem of concentration of power in his firing speech.
BB wanting Mac gone and somehow being stuck with him while he helplessly lost 13 games last season is the dumbest narrative I have ever heard about the Brady/BB era.
It was less Gesicki than Hudson. Talk about a hilariously bad fumble, he had one arm extended with no protection on the ball on what would have been first and goal from the 1 or 2. Or maybe he scores if he just secures and lowers his shoulder. That play there was the game.
I'm with you on repeatability, though, so we'll see. One thing I hope to see change is the decision-making on 4th and short. It worked out, of course, but there were probably 2 instances yesterday where the situations likely called for going for it. Instead they kicked. That works out fine if you're going win the turnover battle by 2 every week (with one of them being on the 1 yard line), but I'd prefer that not be the approach. Mayo promised more aggression, so let's see it.
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You’re being annoying and ruining the thread for people like myself who just want to read about the Pats
In Mayo's defense, I think some of that decision to kick was game-dependent. I think he thought that the Pats' defense had the Bengals' number. (obviusly, or else he would have gone for it). But there will be games where he is less certain of the D and I think he will be more aggressive. IOW--I dont think this is some sort of philosophy from Mayo.
I guess, but a lot of that just seems like a repeat of what we've seen on those decisions the past few years. A 10 point lead is nothing in the NFL, and that's a very good offense and QB on the other side. Without that fluke fumble on the 1, you might well have seen a different outcome. I just prefer there to be aggression as the general rule, especially when you're facing a Top 5 QB.
Did anyone else feel an enlightened confidence in having Alex VP calling the plays yesterday? Every time they showed him on the sideline, I said, "Oh, good - he's making the call." It must be a form of PTSD from the last two years.
Yep, the Hudson fumble was awful. I saw about 6-7 of them like that this weekend between NFL and college games. I was thinking to myself all weekend "Did these guys all forget how to play football in the offseason?" I don't remember this much rust from such a huge swath of players in week one like we saw this week, especially on offense.
That said, I like to shit on Gesicki, because he sucks, he always sucked, and he will continue to suck (but he'll put up some decent fantasy games and people will say some version of "why can't we get players like that" about 6 times this year).
I'd put this in the same category as Brissett. All of sudden mediocrity was extremely comforting. He at least belongs on an NFL field/sideline. As the players settle in, it will be interesting to see if AVP can open things up more.
Getting to mediocre is the first step to no longer being 4-13.
As others have pointed out, the Bengals made a ton of errors and paid for them yesterday, the Pats were not hurt by their errors and made fewer of them to begin with. Against a less error-prone opponent the game goes differently, but that is the case for nearly every game in the NFL.
I think I read that one QB has thrown for 300 yards so far this season? Seems like starters got a lot fewer reps this preseason and it seems to be obvious the offenses didn't come out of the gate ready to go.
There's also the fact that it seems like the Pats took the preseason seriously, and learned from it. If you look around the league, you see lots of teams who sat all their key players for multiple games and it seems to be affecting them on the field (e.g. Jayden Daniels and many WAS starters not even dressing for Preseason G3, someone named Logan Woodside playing QB for all of G3 for the Bengals). The Pats may not have looked polished in the preseason, but they suited up, did what they needed to, and it could pay dividends early in the season.
We watched an entire season of a coach and QB who really didn't want to be here. Watching this team try is a breath of fresh air.
The average team has thrown for about 187 passing yards per game this year, down from about 219 the past two years (which was already down from an average of 235 from 2011-2021). Very unlikely to continue at this rate, as 187 would be the fewest since 1979 (and the league hasn't been under 210 since 2006).
I liked the decision to kick there-- if you don't make it, you give the ball back at mid-field with 3something left on the clock. It is automatic 4 down territory there, So Cincy wouldn't be forced to be too aggressive. They could go on a non-hurried 35 yard drive, and give themselves 4 shots at the endzone with 45 seconds left on the clock. I did a glute workout earlier in the week, I didn't need more clenching there.
On the ensuing punt back to the Pats after the 3 and out, I was screaming at the TV for Marcus Jones to not touch the ball. I didn't want a Chris Harper Redux. Or at least not try to return it... When I saw the flag on the play, my past several year angst kicked in and I thought "Tell me they didn't line up offside" It was a nice change to see all the bonehead plays being made by the other team.
More notes from Lazar: https://www.patriots.com/news/after-further-review-breaking-down-jacoby-brissett-the-run-game-and-the-patriots-defense-in-win-over-bengals
Said Pop and Polk were getting open, so hopefully AVP and Brissett try to do a little more with them next week.
Said Pop and Polk were getting open, so hopefully AVP and Brissett try to do a little more with them next week.
In Bedard's film review, he was a lot less complementary towards the offensive line and a lot more complimentary towards Brissett and Stevenson.
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/09/09/bedards-breakdown-offense-in-the-face-of-penetration-and-pressure-stevenson-and-brissett-saved-patriots-offense
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/09/09/bedards-breakdown-offense-in-the-face-of-penetration-and-pressure-stevenson-and-brissett-saved-patriots-offense
Disagree, kind of. We've seen the Pats for the past 3 years and we have views on how well their OL performed in that span. And I think the question of how this team different from those of the recent past is useful info. (Maybe pass rushers are going hog wild this year because of the emphasis on illegal formations, and that will be important to know, but how the past are doing as compered to recent Pats teams is still somewhat informative.
I didn't want to get into Bedard's semiquantitve evaluations. (Basically, he just rates plays that are positive and negative from his point of view and then scores each player by net percentage of positive plays. Highly subjective and not built to measure lots of relevant things, like how good or bad a play was. But same system and observer for 3 years so not without value.)
I take Bedard with a grain of salt mostly because he's an irredeemable prick and always has been.
That's fair. Though I just disagree based on my (admittedly simpleton) bigger-picture view that they aren't competing against last year's team. If everyone sucks this year, the idea is to suck less than everyone this year.
Sure. If the average pressure rate around the league is much higher than in years past, that suggests the OL should get less flak for a 50% rate.
That's why I was wondering about how they ranked. We know that the Patriots' pass-blocking is "not great." We don't need a number to tell us that. We can see. But some number out there might tell us just how "not great" they are.
This is probably a me thing, but my issue with Bedard is that he's been such a negative prick about the team for so many years that I have a very hard time viewing his analysis as objective. He's always going to present his stuff in the light that's most unfavorable towards the Pats. It took me about .000000000034819 seconds to find a film clip showing that the pressure rate in the game was likely very misleading, yet Bedard presents it as some sort of golden truth.
ESPN had the Pats at 46% pass block win rate (28th) and 70% in run block win rate (21st). I’m not a Bedard fan but I don’t think his #’s are all that far off from reality.
There is some small sample size noise but “they couldn’t block Trey Hendrickson and sometimes there were free rushers” seems like a “but other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln” situation. They got lined up and it wasn’t historically bad or worst-line-in-the-league bad but it also was a below average performance.
Hendrickson is like the only player you have to block on Cincy and they struggled, albeit it was a lot of 1:1 at our weakest line spot (LT). With the free rushers, were they blitzes where they didn’t have enough blockers or were there missed assignments/checks? The one that stands out is the 3rd down after the 4th down stop where Brissett got crushed in the ribs and was slow to get up. Wilson ran free up the middle and got to Brissett untouched. Stevenson was in the backfield and went out on a route, was he supposed to stay in and chip/block?
There is some small sample size noise but “they couldn’t block Trey Hendrickson and sometimes there were free rushers” seems like a “but other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln” situation. They got lined up and it wasn’t historically bad or worst-line-in-the-league bad but it also was a below average performance.
Hendrickson is like the only player you have to block on Cincy and they struggled, albeit it was a lot of 1:1 at our weakest line spot (LT). With the free rushers, were they blitzes where they didn’t have enough blockers or were there missed assignments/checks? The one that stands out is the 3rd down after the 4th down stop where Brissett got crushed in the ribs and was slow to get up. Wilson ran free up the middle and got to Brissett untouched. Stevenson was in the backfield and went out on a route, was he supposed to stay in and chip/block?