We need to talk about (getting) Kevin (Durant)

InstaFace

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This has come up in so many places now that it deserves a thread of its own, on-par with the Anthony Davis dreaming:

[Smart] is now at 42/37/80 with a TS pushing 58%. I predicted he would go 40/35/75 this year but I thought it would be borderline.

I'm firmly on the side that they should try to get KD via opt in and trade as opposed to going for [Davis]. Losing Smart in an AD trade on top of Tatum would be tough to swallow.

Kyrie/KD/Tatum/Smart>>>Kyrie/AD/Jaylen. Now obviously it's a long shot, but Jackie Mac/Windhorst/Bernardoni have all said it's at least a possibility.
Do you trade Horford via opt-in, or Hayward?

I, too, would prefer the certainty of Durant over the risk of Anthony Davis, even if the latter fits our team's complementary roster-building needs more. I'm a Durant fanboy, I love his game and think he's the single most unguardable player in the league. He's only 30. He's also a little prickly, sure, the same way Michael Jordan had a Hulk-like "I'm always angry" undercurrent. Such is the price of greatness.

The media that RM mentions:

Jackie Mac, Dec 28th - points out we were explicitly the "runner-up" last time and that we got a visit from him, but it was her podcast a few days earlier that she pointed out how tight Kyrie and Durant are, that they work out together in the offseason, and take a beach vacation together.

Bernardoni, Feb 3rd - Says his league sources indicate Durant has expressed a desire to join Boston.

Windhorst, March 7th - proposes S&T terms, but also says that a return to OKC was Durant's second choice.

And then, from Hardwood Houdini (Feb 17th), come 3 trade proposals where the money works, and a breakdown of them.

There are three related questions here:

1) Is it desirable for the Celtics?
2) Is there a realistic path to making it happen?
3) What's inside Durant's head, anyway?
 

RedOctober3829

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This has come up in so many places now that it deserves a thread of its own, on-par with the Anthony Davis dreaming:



Do you trade Horford via opt-in, or Hayward?

I, too, would prefer the certainty of Durant over the risk of Anthony Davis, even if the latter fits our team's complementary roster-building needs more. I'm a Durant fanboy, I love his game and think he's the single most unguardable player in the league. He's only 30. He's also a little prickly, sure, the same way Michael Jordan had a Hulk-like "I'm always angry" undercurrent. Such is the price of greatness.

The media that RM mentions:

Jackie Mac, Dec 28th - points out we were explicitly the "runner-up" last time and that we got a visit from him, but it was her podcast a few days earlier that she pointed out how tight Kyrie and Durant are, that they work out together in the offseason, and take a beach vacation together.

Bernardoni, Feb 3rd - Says his league sources indicate Durant has expressed a desire to join Boston.

Windhorst, March 7th - proposes S&T terms, but also says that a return to OKC was Durant's second choice.

And then, from Hardwood Houdini (Feb 17th), come 3 trade proposals where the money works, and a breakdown of them.

There are three related questions here:

1) Is it desirable for the Celtics?
2) Is there a realistic path to making it happen?
3) What's inside Durant's head, anyway?
1) Absolutely it is desirable for the Celtics. If you can get a trio of KD/Kyrie/AD you do it. And it can be done.
2) Yes by trading Horford as part of a opt in S&T. Horford/Jaylen Brown plus future 1sts for KD. If GS doesn't want to do this, KD walks and they lose him for nothing.
3) Hard to tell.
 

JCizzle

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The warriors would be so nasty with Horford and Brown added to that core. I'm not sure how you replace Horford whenever the time comes, we don't have a big man even close to his skill level.
 

InstaFace

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Part of the question of desirability is that by opting in to his final year, Durant would immediately be on an expiring contract next season. He might tell you he'd like to re-sign, but he is somewhat capricious and one thing you'd certainly lack is the ink on a contract that has him past that year.
 

RorschachsMask

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1) Absolutely it is desirable for the Celtics. If you can get a trio of KD/Kyrie/AD you do it. And it can be done.
2) Yes by trading Horford as part of a opt in S&T. Horford/Jaylen Brown plus future 1sts for KD. If GS doesn't want to do this, KD walks and they lose him for nothing.
3) Hard to tell.
I'm with you in that I think Danny probably tries to swing both moves, but I do wonder if they would look at just getting KD as enough. It minimizes the risk, you keep Tatum/Smart/valuable picks.

Kyrie/Smart/Tatum/Durant/Baynes with Hayward as a 6th man is pretty ridiculous. GS gets something for KD, and Al would be the perfect 5 there. In theory Hayward could work too, but is far less likely.

And yeah no clue what Durant is thinking heading into this, but the fact that he vacationed with Kyrie and Tatum last off season is something to remember. Especially when you consider that KD just isn't close with many other players.
 
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nighthob

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Do you trade Horford via opt-in, or Hayward?
Durant and Horford are friends, part of Boston's pitch is coming here to play with two of his friends. Also Horford isn't likely to cooperate due to age (every year he delays signing a new deal reduces his four year pay window). So it would be Hayward/picks for Durant.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Durant and Horford are friends, part of Boston's pitch is coming here to play with two of his friends. Also Horford isn't likely to cooperate due to age (every year he delays signing a new deal reduces his four year pay window). So it would be Hayward/picks for Durant.
You keep saying this but even with his recent improvement, I think the Warriors would prefer to let Durant walk versus taking on Hayward's contract.
 

nighthob

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Sure, they're always free to replace Cousins and Durant with a single MLE player.
 

NomarsFool

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Durant pretty much blocks Tatum. So, if he comes here, Tatum pretty much has to go somewhere else. I also don't really know how you make the trade work. In my mind Horford + Tatum is better than KD + I have no idea. Unfortunately, I think the idea of shipping Hayward out for KD would just be much too expensive.
 

nighthob

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Using Smart, Tatum, and Durant as your 2/3/4 combination is just fine in the pace & space era. It's Tatum and Brown that's the problem. But you can always move one for future value (and probably Brown to defer some of the luxury taxes).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Sure, they're always free to replace Cousins and Durant with a single MLE player.
True and they may well prefer that to taking on a max contract for non max production. Unless the Cs throw in all of their pick assets. Thinking you can obtain Kevin Durant for cheap is great but its difficult to see it happening.
 

nighthob

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Great, then the NBA will be a whole lot more competitive next year with the Warriors sliding down to the border of the second tier and being passed by Denver and likely the Clippers (assuming their free agency plans work) in the west.
 

BigSoxFan

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Me in 2016: KD is such a phony for going to GS

Me in 2019 if nighthob pulls this off: We did it!
 

Van Everyman

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One point in this happening’s favor: if Durant joined Kyrie on the Celtics, the Boston sports media might spontaneously combust.
 

Wilco's Last Fan

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True and they may well prefer that to taking on a max contract for non max production. Unless the Cs throw in all of their pick assets. Thinking you can obtain Kevin Durant for cheap is great but its difficult to see it happening.
You may well be right, but as of this offseason Hayward will be on a 1+1. Even if he never gets back to the player he was in his last season on the Jazz, he won't exactly be a franchise-hamstringing albatross. In fact, if they give him a chance next year and he still isn't 100%, he'll already be a nice piece for salary-matching purposes (one they wouldn't have otherwise with Iggy/Livingston as UFAs in 2020).

It also doesn't even preclude them from using the t-MLE, so the opportunity cost is literally only (relatively short-term) money. It's not absurd to imagine the Warriors thinking that (1) the upside in the event Hayward fully recovers is well worth the risk that he never does, and (2) in light of their cap situation, GH is the best chance to acquire an All-Star to replace KD.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Great, then the NBA will be a whole lot more competitive next year with the Warriors sliding down to the border of the second tier and being passed by Denver and likely the Clippers (assuming their free agency plans work) in the west.
And you are arguing that the Warriors can forestall that slide by effectively swapping for a guy whose upside, assuming he fully recovers, is the floor for the guy they are trading away and taking on two years of a max money contract in the process.

I like Hayward and I think he will continue to progress. However its hard for me to see him as an effective replacement for Durant at his salary. You may be right but I see any deal with Golden State costing a lot more than the privilege of paying Gordon Hayward to find his new path in the NBA.
 

Sam Ray Not

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I think there's about a 2% chance KD ends up in Boston next season, but fwiw, if he requested a S/T (and the alternative were his walking for nothing), I'd happily take one of the H'rds plus one of the Jays (best case Tatum and Horford, least-good case Jaylen and Hayward).

I mean, I'd rather keep KD (and still think there's a great chance he stays in GS) but Curry-Thompson-Tatum-Green-Horford is not a horrible group.
 

RorschachsMask

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And you are arguing that the Warriors can forestall that slide by effectively swapping for a guy whose upside, assuming he fully recovers, is the floor for the guy they are trading away and taking on two years of a max money contract in the process.

I like Hayward and I think he will continue to progress. However its hard for me to see him as an effective replacement for Durant at his salary. You may be right but I see any deal with Golden State costing a lot more than the privilege of paying Gordon Hayward to find his new path in the NBA.
I'd guess it'd be Horford+Jaylen+Celtics pick. Or in the less likely case of Hayward, probably Hayward+Jaylen+Kings pick.

Curry/Klay/Jaylen/Green/Horford is a pretty damn good team, better than him walking for nothing. Of course this is a long shot, but a fit could be there that makes sense for GS.
 

NomarsFool

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Using Smart, Tatum, and Durant as your 2/3/4 combination is just fine in the pace & space era. It's Tatum and Brown that's the problem. But you can always move one for future value (and probably Brown to defer some of the luxury taxes).
Can KD really play the 4? I know he's tall, but I don't really see him having the strength to play the 4.
 

lovegtm

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And you are arguing that the Warriors can forestall that slide by effectively swapping for a guy whose upside, assuming he fully recovers, is the floor for the guy they are trading away and taking on two years of a max money contract in the process.

I like Hayward and I think he will continue to progress. However its hard for me to see him as an effective replacement for Durant at his salary. You may be right but I see any deal with Golden State costing a lot more than the privilege of paying Gordon Hayward to find his new path in the NBA.
Golden State’s choice in that scenario isn’t “Kevin Durant or a replacement for Kevin Durant”, it’s “Kevin Durant or whatever we can get in an S&T to replace him from a destination he wants to go to.”

If Hayward looks like he’s anything close to back during the next 2 months, that’s a much better option for GSW than nothing, particularly given Steph’s window.

Expecting to get an asset as good as Brown, Tatum, or MEM in an S&T is wishful thinking imo, based on the history of NBA S&Ts and the factors involved here.
 

Bunt4aTriple

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I'd guess it'd be Horford+Jaylen+Celtics pick. Or in the less likely case of Hayward, probably Hayward+Jaylen+Kings pick.

Curry/Klay/Jaylen/Green/Horford is a pretty damn good team, better than him walking for nothing. Of course this is a long shot, but a fit could be there that makes sense for GS.
Why any pick? It's only about making the salaries work, no? Otherwise, kd can go elsewhere and they get nothing.
 

DrewDawg

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I thought it was said by KD himself that BOS really had no shot last time around. It was stay in OKC or join GSW
He said OKC was #2, not Boston.

Since joining the Warriors, Durant has appeared on Bill Simmons' podcast multiple times, granting the head of The Ringer some of the most enlightening player interviews we've heard in recent years. In Simmons' latest interview with Durant, the long-time Celtics fan suggested the Celtics were the runners-up behind the Warriors when Durant was making his decision.

Durant shot him down.

"No, you weren't," Durant said flatly, and then, when asked who did come in second, added, "OKC. It wasn't Golden State/Boston."
 

Kliq

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Should be noted that KD was mostly full of shit in those interviews though.

I wouldn't say no to Durant coming to Boston, but boy oh boy would Durant and Kyrie be an all-time head-case pairing.
 

DrewDawg

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Should be noted that KD was mostly full of shit in those interviews though.

I wouldn't say no to Durant coming to Boston, but boy oh boy would Durant and Kyrie be an all-time head-case pairing.
Maybe, but with each other there, some of that might be mitigated.
 

cheech13

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Is this actually coming up anywhere but here?
I consider myself something of a hoops junkie especially when it comes to player movement/contracts/etc. and I haven't seen the connection anywhere outside of this board. Maybe there's a 1% chance he considers it, but I wouldn't hold my breath .
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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Can KD really play the 4? I know he's tall, but I don't really see him having the strength to play the 4.
I mean we've had Marcus Morris doing it all year. I'd take KD over Morris.

PS I do not believe there is any chance of KD coming here.
 

nighthob

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Is this actually coming up anywhere but here?
Do you mean Durant in Boston specifically? Or just Durant and Irving forming their own super team? Jackie Mac mentioned the former back in December. There have been approximately 13 godzillion stories about the latter.

The hope here is that Irving likes it enough in Boston to sell KD on this being their super team. I wouldn’t rule out the Clippers, though. The Knicks could get in the race if they win the Zion Sweepstakes and can offer Irving and Durant the opportunity to team up with AD.
 

cheech13

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Do you mean Durant in Boston specifically? Or just Durant and Irving forming their own super team? Jackie Mac mentioned the former back in December. There have been approximately 13 godzillion stories about the latter.

The hope here is that Irving likes it enough in Boston to sell KD on this being their super team. I wouldn’t rule out the Clippers, though. The Knicks could get in the race if they win the Zion Sweepstakes and can offer Irving and Durant the opportunity to team up with AD.
If Kyrie and KD love each other so much and want to play together above all else why wouldn't they just both sign as free agents in New York? Why go through the unnecessary hassle of forcing a sign-and-trade?
 

nighthob

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Because Boston already has a supporting cast and New York would be rounding out the roster with vet min signings. Now maybe Irving doesn’t like it here, in which case I’d lay odds on the Clippers or Knicks.
 

Sam Ray Not

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We're only making plans for Kevin
Kevin's whole future is as good as sealed...
And if young Kevin says he's happy
He must be happy
He must be happy in his work
Kevin is not outspoken
But he likes to speak
And loves to be spoken to
Kevin is happy in his work...