Watching the Jones: Dazed & Confused

GeorgeCostanza

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May 16, 2009
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Go f*ck yourself
Before Pete Carroll was hired, I tried to convince my friends in HS I had an inside source with the Patriots. I told them i was hearing that George Seifert was the front runner for the position, just pulling a name out of my ass. Next day, back page of the Herald was a picture of Seifert saying he was close to signing. I was a god for about 2 days before they figured out I was a total fraud.
 

Stitch01

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I think benching Jones beyond some sort of symbolic not starting thing which wont matter too much given they rotate Ninkovich/Sheard/Jones through would be really dumb given what we know about the situation, so Im hoping that source thing is farce or not true (no idea whether there is an actual source, Ive sort of given up figuring up what's real and what's satire on the site this week)
 

dwhogan

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No. Synthetic weed was moved to federal Schedule I in 2012, making it illegal throughout the United States.
Only certain compounds are included in that legislation. Basically synthetic "weed" is more appropriately referred to as synethetic cannabanoids, as these are compounds unrelated to THC which act upon cannabanoid receptors in the brain. These compounds continue to be synthesized and modified to create a psychoactive effect similar to marijuana, while being chemically distinct enough to remain legal under the letter of the law. This allows smoke shops and internet vendors to sell these substances, though not for human consumption.

There are hundreds of compounds that have been created, many with nearly no history of human use. This is incredibly scary as users are essentially acting as test subjects. Each time a new substance is scheduled federally, new compounds are being released which take it's place. Legislation cannot act quickly enough.

Quick aside: What's the attraction of synthetic weed? I live in a state where you can legally get whatever variety of organic weed, hash, kief, hash oil, wax, etc. - all certified to be chemical-free so maybe I'm out of touch.

Jones couldn't score the real thing? (Assuming the account is true, which I still don't buy into).
Like most people who use this stuff, he was likely trying to avoid drug testing requirements. Some people actually prefer some of these synthetics to tried and true marijuana. Why, I have no idea. I've heard so many terrifying stories from users that I've worked with.

Marijuana is so much safer, with a long history of human use. This is one of the major side-effects of criminalization.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Dec 4, 2005
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I think benching Jones beyond some sort of symbolic not starting thing which wont matter too much given they rotate Ninkovich/Sheard/Jones through would be really dumb given what we know about the situation, so Im hoping that source thing is farce or not true (no idea whether there is an actual source, Ive sort of given up figuring up what's real and what's satire on the site this week)

The game is on Saturday.
 

Koufax

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I think the calendar is the source. He'll be too sore on Sunday to play any more football.
 

SumnerH

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Only certain compounds are included in that legislation. Basically synthetic "weed" is more appropriately referred to as synethetic cannabanoids, as these are compounds unrelated to THC which act upon cannabanoid receptors in the brain. These compounds continue to be synthesized and modified to create a psychoactive effect similar to marijuana, while being chemically distinct enough to remain legal under the letter of the law. This allows smoke shops and internet vendors to sell these substances, though not for human consumption.

There are hundreds of compounds that have been created, many with nearly no history of human use. This is incredibly scary as users are essentially acting as test subjects. Each time a new substance is scheduled federally, new compounds are being released which take it's place. Legislation cannot act quickly enough.
The whole point of the 2012 legislation was to stop playing that kind of legislative whack-a-mole. It doesn't attempt to exhaustively enumerate specific compounds, rather it bans broadly any cannabinoid receptor agonist in a broad umbrella of structural classes, including "any material, compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any quantity of cannabimimetic agents, or which contains their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers".


As a side note, even outside of this particular legislation there are two ways the government reacts more quickly than legislation to new designer drugs: the DEA can administratively do an emergency schedule of them (as was done for many of the cannabanoids in Spice/K2/etc in 2010--the 2012 act extends the allowed duration of emergency scheduling to 2 years), and the Drug Analogs Act automatically makes any "substantially similar" chemicals scheduled on the same footing as their analogs.
 

brandonchristensen

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Feb 4, 2012
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Before Pete Carroll was hired, I tried to convince my friends in HS I had an inside source with the Patriots. I told them i was hearing that George Seifert was the front runner for the position, just pulling a name out of my ass. Next day, back page of the Herald was a picture of Seifert saying he was close to signing. I was a god for about 2 days before they figured out I was a total fraud.
Still a better track record than Theo.
 

EricFeczko

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Apr 26, 2014
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The whole point of the 2012 legislation was to stop playing that kind of legislative whack-a-mole. It doesn't attempt to exhaustively enumerate specific compounds, rather it bans broadly any cannabinoid receptor agonist in a broad umbrella of structural classes, including "any material, compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any quantity of cannabimimetic agents, or which contains their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers".


As a side note, even outside of this particular legislation there are two ways the government reacts more quickly than legislation to new designer drugs: the DEA can administratively do an emergency schedule of them (as was done for many of the cannabanoids in Spice/K2/etc in 2010--the 2012 act extends the allowed duration of emergency scheduling to 2 years), and the Drug Analogs Act automatically makes any "substantially similar" chemicals scheduled on the same footing as their analogs.
This is true on a federal level, however, it doesn't mean local police will enforce this law. Local police certainly won't enforce it for a high-profile celebrity that lives within walking distance.
Even at the federal level the Drug Analogs Act isn't always enforced properly. In 2003, you could order 5-meo-DMT and get it shipped to your door.

Given that they've confirmed a legal substance, however, I'll concede that Crystalline is likely correct that it is some combination of ambien and low drug resistance. I still find the shirtless/shoeless surprising without some hallucinogen (e.g. LSD or psilocybin; Salvia is a joke for people prone to suggestion) or a heavy dose of psychostimulants (e.g. cocaine). Some people just can't handle their drugs.
If he was truly smoking synthetic weed, in 2016, then he's a moron and should be off the team next year for sheer stupidity.
 

dwhogan

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The whole point of the 2012 legislation was to stop playing that kind of legislative whack-a-mole. It doesn't attempt to exhaustively enumerate specific compounds, rather it bans broadly any cannabinoid receptor agonist in a broad umbrella of structural classes, including "any material, compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any quantity of cannabimimetic agents, or which contains their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers".
The next added paragraph after the sentence you quoted then indicates what a cannabimimetic agent is, and outlines certain chemical backbones. In response, manufacturers are simply moving on to differently structured agents. Wired wrote an article back in 2012 which examines how the law was obsolete when it was signed d/t agents already available at that time which were not impacted.

They can emergency schedule this stuff, but the problem is it's being synthesized and put out so quickly that it's impossible (and irresponsible) to keep up. All this is doing is pushing chemists to create new drugs which avoid the law, but continue to produce more unknown effects. These compounds are exactly the reason that criminalization of these compounds is a poor strategy. They are created in direct response to the drug war and are having the effect of making people less safe.
 

wiffleballhero

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The stupidest person in sports media has weighed in. Whatever is beyond contemptible applies. My god.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/15/cris-carter-speculates-chandler-jones-smoked-pcp/

This says more about Carter than anything else. One could just as easily "think" that Carter's particular interpretation of what Jones was doing reflect the bias of his own habits.

It does not pass the "smell" test for me to imagine that someone could think like this without a long personal history of PCP use.
 

Van Everyman

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The stupidest person in sports media has weighed in. Whatever is beyond contemptible applies. My god.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/15/cris-carter-speculates-chandler-jones-smoked-pcp/
Good on PFT (Michael David Smith, not Florio, but still) for calling Carter out for speculating without any evidence whatsoever .

That said, when you fuck up like this, this is what you get: rando's coming out of the woodwork, saying stupid crap, making irresponsible claims and weaving inane conspiracy theories.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Sep 9, 2008
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Usually Patriots hate kind of rolls of my back. By Carter is really letting his hate cloud an important issue. The bottom line is that we want 25 year olds -- whether they are NFL players or not -- seeking help for bad drug reactions. I'm not trying to defend Jones. But holy shit -- public shaming and comparing Jones to Hernandez? I guess it's not a journalist's job to give anyone a free pass, but Carter is not really a journalist and purportedly loves the league. Is potentially making it so that the next guy has a harder time picking up the phone than trying to ride it out really where Chris Carter (or anyone else wanting this to be a bigger story) wants to be on this?
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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Obviously, still just speculation, but his brother had some bad drug problems but has seemed to come on strong after hitting rock bottom.
 

mwonow

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This says more about Carter than anything else. One could just as easily "think" that Carter's particular interpretation of what Jones was doing reflect the bias of his own habits.

It does not pass the "smell" test for me to imagine that someone could think like this without a long personal history of PCP use.
Well, he's got a long personal history, all right. My quick Google search on "Cris Carter drugs" found 183K hits...
 

cornwalls@6

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Apr 23, 2010
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You would hope someone who had his history of drug issues, and overcame them, would be much more sensitive to, and less inclined to engage in, the irresponsible crap of speculating what someone was doing, without having been there or have any more information than the public has. And invoking comparisons to Hernandez is just beyond the pale of moronic trolling. A classic example of Bristol-izing a guy who was something of dip-shit to begin with.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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May 16, 2009
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Go f*ck yourself
Good on PFT (Michael David Smith, not Florio, but still) for calling Carter out for speculating without any evidence whatsoever .

That said, when you fuck up like this, this is what you get: rando's coming out of the woodwork, saying stupid crap, making irresponsible claims and weaving inane conspiracy theories.
I think publishing these comments makes Carter look worse than Jones to be honest. While he made a mistake, Jones ultimately did the responsible thing. Every word out of Carters mouth here is irresponsible. Love the summary by smith.
That’s quite a leap for Carter to make. To begin his statement by admitting he doesn’t know the facts and then go on to speculate that Jones was using PCP and connect him to a convicted murderer seems irresponsible. ESPN’s management may tell Carter to choose his words more carefully. Or next time he says something irresponsible, find a fall guy.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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I hate drawing the parallels between Manning and Jones but Manning gets off beyond reproach by Carter when HGH gets mailed to his house. Meanwhile it's okay for him to accuse Jones with lack of evidence of smoking PCP. The only question I would ask was Mark Brunell crying in the background when Carter commented.
 

Devizier

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Anecdotes aren't enough to establish that such reactions are common occurrences.
True, but this isn't exactly an undocumented phenomenon.
Patients typically use zolpidem to benefit from temporary sedative effects that aid them in attaining restful sleep. Adverse reactions have occurred, including daytime drowsiness, dizziness, hallucinations, behavioral changes (e.g., bizarre behavior and agitation), and complex behaviors such as sleepwalking and "sleep driving" (i.e., driving while not fully awake).2,3,4,5,8
 

SumnerH

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They can emergency schedule this stuff, but the problem is it's being synthesized and put out so quickly that it's impossible (and irresponsible) to keep up. All this is doing is pushing chemists to create new drugs which avoid the law, but continue to produce more unknown effects. These compounds are exactly the reason that criminalization of these compounds is a poor strategy. They are created in direct response to the drug war and are having the effect of making people less safe.
Well, that and the fact that prohibition doesn't work in general even with stable compounds (see: alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, heroin).
 

dwhogan

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Well, that and the fact that prohibition doesn't work in general even with stable compounds (see: alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, heroin).
If you get a chance, the book Chasing the Scream is a pretty good read and addresses a lot of these ideas. I'm really into drug policy so this stuff is my bread and butter.