Waller… Shot Caller. The 2021 Las Vegas Raiders Thread

Gunfighter 09

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I am probably jinxing a great start by doing this.

But the Raiders look pretty damn good so far and might be worth some board conversation this year.

- Derek Carr has been playing great since halftime of game 1. I think Gruden fixed Carr in terms of improving his pocket presence and forcing him to be more aggressive and use his arm talent.

- The receiving group is really well constructed. Waller is the best non Kelce TE in the game. Ruggs is a legit deep threat. Bryan Edwards is a quality big bodied wide out. Hunter Renfrow is going to be an excellent slot recorder for the next decade or so. The extra pieces like Zay Jones, Foster Moreaux & full back Alex Ingold have all played quite well so far and punished teams who focused on Waller & Ruggs. Kenyan Drake is overpaid, but probably a perfect receiving back for Gruden & Carr.

- The Raiders chose to get younger and cheaper on the offensive line by getting rid of Trent Brown, Rodney Hudson and Gabe Jackson. That saved more than $35M in cap room, but there is definitely some lost effectiveness with the young guys. They can’t seem to run the ball against good defenses and Carr is being forced to use that better pocket presence quite a bit.

- Gus Bradley has taken over the defense and brought in several former players like Yannik Ngakoue, Denzel Perryman, Casey Hayward and KJ Wright with him. These guys have put former first round picks Clellin Ferrell & Damon Arnette on the bench, but with the Raiders offense being as good as they are, they only need to be competent rather than the horror show we have seen the last three years and so far that seems to be working. Maxx Crosby appears to be breaking out at RDE, but some of that might just be the fact that Ngakoue can’t be ignored like previous Raider pass rushers opposite Mad Maxx.

- This team has a divisional round ceiling, but Gruden’s slow re-build seems to be progressing towards that direction. Lastly, the stadium in Vegas is fucking amazing. I strongly recommend catching a game there. It’s a bit weird as a long time Oakland season ticket holder, in that I just don’t know what to do in a world class facility, but the Death Star will feel like home soon enough. It was really loud last Monday, so it should produce a decent home field advantage, even if there are always a bunch of visiting fans tourists at games.
 
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j-man

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the raiders have a great Off the key for them is avoid INJ and keep improving on def and can u beat KC once
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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GF - if you and/or other silver and black fans have access to HBO Max check out the Real Sports piece on Mark Davis. He comes across as a really likeable guy and the sort of owner that you would want for your team. It was eye opening.
 

Gunfighter 09

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GF - if you and/or other silver and black fans have access to HBO Max check out the Real Sports piece on Mark Davis. He comes across as a really likeable guy and the sort of owner that you would want for your team. It was eye opening.

Thank you for this. It was good TV and certainly caught who Mark Davis is. My brothers and I shared a couple beers with Mark and Cliff Branch in a bar (famous Raider bar Ricky's in San Leandro, CA) back in 2012. It wasn't just a famous guy coming down to a well known team bar to meet a few of a fans. He had two rounds with us (he wasn't drinking alcohol) and talked about football and life with our little group and the bartender. He seemed genuinely interested in what my brother and I did in the Marine Corps and about our family's long held support for his team. He was fascinated by the fact that I had been in the Oakland Coliseum as a four year old kid. He seemed very, very genuine and real for someone worth hundreds of millions of dollars at the time. You can see why NFL owner types consider him strange and why Raider fans that have encountered him seem to like him quite a bit.

My only issue with the Real Sports piece was that they sort of glossed the public stadium funding questions with Mark in their interview. I've heard him discuss his opinion of how Allegiant Stadium and Vegas has very different math on what it gives back to the city in terms of bringing in visitors and their dollars to the city. I don't know if I totally buy that logic, but I think that would be a more interesting discussion than quoting the Stanford stadium study for the 50th time and just saying "blame the politicians, not Mark."

In other Raiders' news, Josh Jacobs will likely miss his second straight week with an ankle injury. His durability continues to be a concern and it will be challenging for the Raiders to continue producing consistent offensive output with an average at best Offensive Line and no real running game.
 

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Awesome picture.

Kudos to Real Sports who laid it all out there and then proceeded to obliterate almost every narrative that the takesphere has on Davis using mostly facts and the actual person's words. I am a Mark Davis fan now, if only because he comes across as authentic.
 

bosockboy

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3-0 banged up. 3 10 win teams. Morrow and Jacobs likely back next week.

They are following the script to the letter. Score 30 a game and improve the defense like 25%. Bend don’t break.
 

j-man

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i see vegas as a 10 win team

hot take alert if LAC beats u on mon night they are the afc west fav

i doubt this will happen but as of now i see all 4 teams 10-11 type of win teams we all could be 3-3 in the west i kinda wanna see all 4 afc west teams in the playoffs
 

bosockboy

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i see vegas as a 10 win team

hot take alert if LAC beats u on mon night they are the afc west fav

i doubt this will happen but as of now i see all 4 teams 10-11 type of win teams we all could be 3-3 in the west i kinda wanna see all 4 afc west teams in the playoffs
Need to see the Broncos against a non-cupcake first before I go there.

Raiders first home game at SoFi Monday. Probably 80/20 at minimum Raiders fans.
 

Gunfighter 09

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I moved all of the offensive (for a Raider fan) Broncos content to J-Man's thread.

In Raider news:

Derek Carr is the offensive player of the month for September. Seems appropriate, he's leading the league in passing yards, has two overtime wins and probably leads the league in holy shit! throws so far as well. So far it is like his 2016 aggression and ballsyness have mixed with his 2020 efficiency and command of the offense. He's a few more weeks away from making Gruden and Mayock regret not extending him this offseason.

View: https://twitter.com/Raiders/status/1443554218716155910



There are two big questions for this week agains the Chargers. First, how the Raiders handle the running backs. The Raiders really need Josh Jacobs back, and the Raiders are being extremely tight lipped about his health and status. The Chargers are basically excellent at everything except for stopping the run (and all of the typical Charger stuff like special teams, clock management and freakishly catastrophic injury luck). Peyton Barber played well last week against Miami, with over 170 total yards and 144 yards rushing, but on re-watch, I really felt like he left 50 or 60 additional yards out there. Jacobs is excellent at finding small holes and exploiting them, and it is not hard to imagine that the upgrade over Barber could really help balance the offense against a team like the Bolts, who are very good agains the pass, but will concede the run. Jacobs is also a much, much better short yardage back than Barber. Jalen Richard is probably also back this week, it will be interesting to see how he fits on the team with Kenyon Drake getting most of the passing down RB snaps. Drake seems like a better version of Richard (except for pass blocking, where Richard might be the best of any "3rd down back" and Drake is merely good) and he seems to have a good connection with Carr in the passing game. Drake already has 13 catches for 138 yards and 6 first downs this season. Richard is the second longest tenured Raider, is beloved by coaches and teammates, but is also a publicly militant anti-vaxxer (even pre COVID) who is overpaid at $3M/year. The fact that he is still on the team, despite there being a better version of himself on the team, being overpaid for his position and being the only unvaxxed player on the roster means that he has achieved top tier Gruden binky status. I would not be shocked to see Richard play over Drake this week, which would probably be a mistake.

View: https://twitter.com/VicTafur/status/1442583786324070407

Gruden has done a great job throwing out weird and confusing personnel packages (check out the clip from the great Ted Nguyen below) designed to keep opposing defenses in base personnel and then attack mixed up line backers and safeties. So, if Jacobs doesn't play, perhaps we see some 21 or 22 personnel packages with both Drake and Richard, who are both comfortable split out wide. My guess is that Brandon Staley is just going to concede the running game and stay with 5 or 6 DBs and force the Raiders to run the ball.

View: https://twitter.com/FB_FilmAnalysis/status/1442950398558420999


The second question is this:

Raiders first home game at SoFi Monday. Probably 80/20 at minimum Raiders fans.



I know multiple LA based Raider fans that are more hyped for attending this game than any game in Vegas. Raider fans are still sensitive about losing the return to LA race and all of the (frankly racist) bullshit media coverage about Raider fans that came with that decision, even if it all worked out better for the Raiders than being Stan Kroenke's tenets. Here is the best estimate I can find:

View: https://twitter.com/gorillarilla/status/1442990993867902984


My brother will be attending the game. My sad story is that I have been waiting 6 months for the VA to get me an appointment for a bum knee, and they finally got me one, with an excellent doctor... at 8AM on Tuesday morning. So I will not be there screaming at Herbert with 50,000 of my finest silver black clad friends on Monday night.
 
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bosockboy

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Great post. Just don’t see room for Richard; they paid Drake starter money to be an accessory piece and Barber is a great cheap backup also.

Jacobs’ inability to stay on the field means it’s unlikely he will stick around long term. They are going to be handing out big paydays for Carr, Miller, Waller and Crosby very soon.
 

Gunfighter 09

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Great post. Just don’t see room for Richard; they paid Drake starter money to be an accessory piece and Barber is a great cheap backup also.

Jacobs’ inability to stay on the field means it’s unlikely he will stick around long term. They are going to be handing out big paydays for Carr, Miller, Waller and Crosby very soon.

All after they pay the GOAT:



Miller already extended as well. but your point holds, I think Jacobs will be the odd man out.
 

bosockboy

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All after they pay the GOAT:



Miller already extended as well. but your point holds, I think Jacobs will be the odd man out.
Yep my bad on Miller. And Renfrow would definitely get it over Jacobs. Tough look after getting zip from Ferrell and Arnette and probably letting Jacobs walk. Such a waste of first round capital.
 

EvilEmpire

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Disappointing loss last night, but I take some solace in how they played in the second half. I think they have plenty of quality on both sides of the ball now, even on the defensive side, but not enough to perform at a consistently high level against the better teams. Offensive line and defensive secondary are going to hold them back some, especially with all the injuries.
 

bosockboy

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Disappointing loss last night, but I take some solace in how they played in the second half. I think they have plenty of quality on both sides of the ball now, even on the defensive side, but not enough to perform at a consistently high level against the better teams. Offensive line and defensive secondary are going to hold them back some, especially with all the injuries.
They need to acquire a guard at trade deadline.

The defense is much better; they were on the field too much last night. Frankly they will win most games holding to 28 or under.

But the awful first halves need to end. Concerned the Bears are a trap game on a short week.
 

Marciano490

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Disappointing loss last night, but I take some solace in how they played in the second half. I think they have plenty of quality on both sides of the ball now, even on the defensive side, but not enough to perform at a consistently high level against the better teams. Offensive line and defensive secondary are going to hold them back some, especially with all the injuries.
Were they such slow starters the last couple years? Small sample size and all, but the first v second half numbers are striking.
 

EvilEmpire

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That is a good question. I don't remember. I suspect last season they may have been slow starters, but it was hard to tell because they were also slow finishers so often. :(
 

Gunfighter 09

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This is the place to talk about Gruden getting fired and who will take over, the excitement of our third rebuild in 7 years and all that. FML.
 

scott bankheadcase

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Posting here instead of Gruden thread:


Raiders have multiple former head coaches on staff (Bradley, Marinelli, Cable) but none of them really a no brainer to be interim coach.
Marinelli is in his 70s. Cable has a .386 nfl winning percentage and that’s better than what Bradley has.

yeah, maybe just promote the OC?
 

SMU_Sox

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The thing with Gruden is that he is their de facto GM. Lots of Gruden guys in the building right now. Mayock - does he get a chance to actually be in charge now? Wonder if the do a full clean sweep or not. My guess is probably yes. I think Bienemi is a good candidate to replace him. An offensive minded HC to help Carr and the offense.
 

Cellar-Door

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A new GM would have some things to work with. Carr has no guaranteed money next year, trading him away gets you over $70M in cap space to play with, and other guys could clear even more. You could completely remake that team pretty quickly if an outsider were brought in.
 

Phil Plantier

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The thing with Gruden is that he is their de facto GM. Lots of Gruden guys in the building right now. Mayock - does he get a chance to actually be in charge now? Wonder if the do a full clean sweep or not. My guess is probably yes. I think Bienemi is a good candidate to replace him. An offensive minded HC to help Carr and the offense.
What kind of odds could you have gotten last week that Mayock would outlast Gruden? 100-1?

Will be interesting to see if he makes better decisions now that he is the decision-maker.
 

j-man

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Sunday is a de-fasco playoff game for both teams the key will be

can Denver start fast only played 1 good q out of the last 8

the game should be raiders off vs Denver def Denver has not got enough pressure on the qb the last 2 weeks

this game could be tittle the Rodgers bowl but as i said on Denver's blog i am hoping the eagles fall in love with a 1st round qb and then trade hurts to Denver

denver has a OL worry as well more so at G/C than T

thin death at WR with hitlon at 3 to beat denver your WR must beat their CB
 

j-man

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What kind of odds could you have gotten last week that Mayock would outlast Gruden? 100-1?

Will be interesting to see if he makes better decisions now that he is the decision-maker.
maylock drafted fellell at 4 overall that a fell what davis should is hire daniel jeremiah as the next gm replaced maylock plus calles LAC games was a ravend scout as well if u could get LAC off with Balt Def u guys would be much tougher to beat
 

luckiestman

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Sunday is a de-fasco playoff game for both teams the key will be

can Denver start fast only played 1 good q out of the last 8

the game should be raiders off vs Denver def Denver has not got enough pressure on the qb the last 2 weeks

this game could be tittle the Rodgers bowl but as i said on Denver's blog i am hoping the eagles fall in love with a 1st round qb and then trade hurts to Denver

denver has a OL worry as well more so at G/C than T

thin death at WR with hitlon at 3 to beat denver your WR must beat their CB
I’m surprised you like Hurts. I have not been impressed with what I see.
 

j-man

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I’m surprised you like Hurts. I have not been impressed with what I see.
well rodgers will cost 35-40 mil of denver pjod 76 mil cap room plus 3 1sts when miller sutton and patrick will also be fa's plus denver will need OL help as well rodgers is a great qb but idk if he is worth loseing miller suttion and patrick over
 

SMU_Sox

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Honestly J-Man I’m not sure that Mayock vs Gruden drafted those guys. I think Gruden made the call. How does one even evaluate Mayock if Gruden was making the decisions?
 

j-man

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Honestly J-Man I’m not sure that Mayock vs Gruden drafted those guys. I think Gruden made the call. How does one even evaluate Mayock if Gruden was making the decisions?
that is true if Gruden was makeing the picks but i watched NFL network for years when maylock was the guy i think it was 50-50 the q for the raiders is can carr lead them on deep playoffs runs their Off is close the def is better they still need CB'S or faster LB'S
 

Gunfighter 09

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No problem brother. I just busy pouting at this point.
I was really excited to finally go to a game at Mile High this weekend. I somewhat less excited as the Raiders are once again an embarrassment.

It is a big game for both teams, the problem is that Gruden was the offensive staff, they don’t even list a QB coach. So, it’s hard to see them fixing their offensive woes this week.
 

sodenj5

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The question moving forwards is: do they keep Mayock or clean house? Do you give Mike one year to see what his draft looks like out from under Gruden’s thumb?
 

Gunfighter 09

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Super Nomario

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The question moving forwards is: do they keep Mayock or clean house? Do you give Mike one year to see what his draft looks like out from under Gruden’s thumb?
I wouldn't. I think you do an exhaustive search for a new "head of football" (whether a coach with full personnel like Gruden or a GM you empower to hire the HC). Davis doesn't seem up for arbitrating power between a HC and a GM (generally a dumb idea anyway IMO) so I think they need a clean sweep.
 

sodenj5

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I wouldn't. I think you do an exhaustive search for a new "head of football" (whether a coach with full personnel like Gruden or a GM you empower to hire the HC). Davis doesn't seem up for arbitrating power between a HC and a GM (generally a dumb idea anyway IMO) so I think they need a clean sweep.
I would agree, and I don’t think Mayock has proven himself indispensable.

Half measures typically don’t work and they probably need a clean house and let someone else bring in a new staff entirely.
 

PedroKsBambino

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How appealing the Raiders gig is for the next guy is fascinating to me---there's some real pluses (historic franchise; interesting market; some good pieces in place on roster) and also minuses (Davis is some level of buffoon, though opinions vary a little how much; aftermath of this could be ugly; expectations may be a little higher than quality of team).

Curious where they go...
 

Gunfighter 09

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How appealing the Raiders gig is for the next guy is fascinating to me---there's some real pluses (historic franchise; interesting market; some good pieces in place on roster) and also minuses (Davis is some level of buffoon, though opinions vary a little how much; aftermath of this could be ugly; expectations may be a little higher than quality of team).

Curious where they go...

Assets:

- all of their draft picks going forward
-$50-60M in cap room next year, over $155 in 2023
-Carr will be on the last year of his deal next year. He's a bargain at $19m, but you have to trade him or extend him.
-A bunch of interesting young pieces, but no real high level stars outside of Darren Waller, who you have on the best non rookie contract in the NFL. Ruggs, Renfrow, Crosby, Abram, Jacobs, Edwards, Mullen are all good to very good but not great players.
-Your long term veteran obligations are not terrible - Kolton Miller, Yannick Ngakoue, Corry Littleton


I am hoping for a very normal coaching hire - some OC in his late 30's / early 40's on a 4 year contract, Byron Leftwich would be my pick. Of course, I hope they make the David Shaw call and offer him a whole bunch. We'll see.


The real issue is they have to hire a team President and perhaps a GM, as well as a head coach. There is a bunch of pressure on Mark Davis to get it right.
 

EvilEmpire

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I am hoping for a very normal coaching hire - some OC in his late 30's / early 40's on a 4 year contract, Byron Leftwich would be my pick. Of course, I hope they make the David Shaw call and offer him a whole bunch. We'll see.
I would be happy with either of those picks, especially Shaw.
 

Tony C

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Absolutely. From a football only perspective it’s a huge break to get out from under him.
It really is a break, especially if the resignation deal saves Davis a lot of money that he puts into the club. Gruden is highly overrated and they're football fortunate to not have him as an albatross. Oh, and he's also....:) -- will leave that for a different thread.
 

j-man

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shaw has lost some juice at stanford the last 2 years

this will never happhen but if the pats go 5-12 i call mr kraft and say how much for bill b maybe 3 ones but short of that

1 Mcd
2 kellen moore
3 joe brady
4 pete carmiael
5 john harbaugh