Well he’s done this a lot more than Mayo (press conferences)I can't picture Mayo answering these questions anywhere near as well as Vrabel. He oozes confidence.
I see what you did there. Even if it wasn't on purpose.I'm not really being wowed by this press conference. He seems incredibly competent, but I'm not being "blown away" here.
I have no idea if Vrabel can make the Patriots SB contenders long term, but I have no doubt he can rebuild them into a functioning professional organization moving in that direction.Yeah I was leaning towards Johnson, but listening to Vrabel I realized this is the guy to get the team back to respectability. The culture needs a full reset and he's the right guy at the right time.
GB: You had Mike on your staff. You went against him in the AFC South ... What's your reaction to the news?
BOB: Yeah, I was very happy for the Patriots and for Mike. I knew, obviously Mike from when I coached with the Patriots the first time around. Mike was the type of guy, no matter what position you had on the coaching staff, he knew everybody. So I was quality control/wide receiver coach while Mike was there, and we got to know each other. And then when I went to Penn State, I tried to hire him at Penn State - he wasn't going to leave Ohio State. And then he was one of the first guys I hired in Houston and did a great job coaching. I always tell people, look at the development of guys like Whitney Mercilus, Jadeveon Clowney, Brian Cushing when we got there, Mike did all that, Mike coached the shit out of those guys. Then he was the defensive coordinator in '17, we weren't very good, we had a lot of injuries. And then he got the head job at the Titans, and then we coached against him, and had battles and went back and forth. Just a very well-coached team, very tough team. We had similar type teams, you know, Houston and Tennessee, when I was there. He just did a great job. And he's the thing about Mike, he's a great friend. He's a good guy. He's a man's man. He knows a lot about your family. He's just a really good, good person, you know, good guy. It's a great choice by the Krafts.
In Houston, did he do a good job of reaching guys individually and getting them to play at a higher level?
That's probably one of the things that he does the best. That's a strength of his, that he has a way of getting to know somebody and understanding where the guy comes from, what makes the guy tick, how to inspire a guy. We always talk about not necessarily motivating somebody, but just inspiring somebody to be more than what they are. And that's one of his strengths. He does a really good job of that. He's very smart, right? So he knows how coach the positions. He knows both sides of the ball, special teams. He's got a good base of knowledge that'll really help those guys get better at every position.
He went to the Browns and helped with the tight ends and offensive line, and learned how they approached analytics. Does that surprise you?
Yeah, I knew that he was doing that, and that didn't surprise me at all, because he's the type of guy that he could probably go coach the offensive line for the Cleveland Browns, or coach the tight ends. He understands what it what it takes to teach those positions, because he's put the time in. I remember one time we did a staff clinic. So I gave each guy, like an area to kind of present to the subject as present to the staff. And he had tackling. So he went through all the different types of tackles that took place that year, in whatever year it was, 2016 in the NFL. Side tackles, straight-on tackles, sideline tackles, angle ... I mean, just all kinds of different tackles. And he presented it to the staff, and had different ways to teach tackling, and different ways to think about tackling, how to take on a stiff arm. It was really, really good. And I think that's what he is. He puts a lot of time into all facets of football. And I think that's why you saw that he could, you know, help out with the offensive line in Cleveland this year.
It’s a fun puff piece but Vrabel’s one year as DC in Houston, they had the worst defense in the NFL. 32 out of 32Bill O'Brien raved about Vrabel to Bedard.
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2025/01/12/bedard-boston-colleges-bill-obrien-shares-his-unique-insight-on-mike-vrabels-return-to-the-patriots
He clearly feels like he knows what he's doing, which unfortunately Mayo clearly did not. Could almost sense his lack of confidence in every answer this past year...what should I say, what do they want me to say...Vrabel has none of that. LFG.I can't picture Mayo answering these questions anywhere near as well as Vrabel. He oozes confidence.
He very much came across to me full of confidence. His experience has been super beneficial to him.He clearly feels like he knows what he's doing, which unfortunately Mayo clearly did not. Could almost sense his lack of confidence in every answer this past year...what should I say, what do they want me to say...Vrabel has none of that. LFG.
Good thing that he wasn't hired to be the DCIt’s a fun puff piece but Vrabel’s one year as DC in Houston, they had the worst defense in the NFL. 32 out of 32
so take anything BOB says about Vrabel’s defensive prowess or ability to develop defensive talent with many grains of salt
A decent CEO coach he might be, as he was in Tennessee. A defensive whiz, I don’t think there’s any evidence of that.
yes I agree. Not sure what your point is though.Good thing that he wasn't hired to be the DC
It’s a fun puff piece but Vrabel’s one year as DC in Houston, they had the worst defense in the NFL. 32 out of 32
so take anything BOB says about Vrabel’s defensive prowess or ability to develop defensive talent with many grains of salt
A decent CEO coach he might be, as he was in Tennessee. A defensive whiz, I don’t think there’s any evidence of that.
He hates Vrabel’s hiring. Need to make sure everyone gets reminded constantly.BOB mentioned in the "puff piece" that they were last in defense with MV as a coordinator. And then he grew as a coach. So I am not sure what your point was with this:
Thanks. I’m not assuming anything, and I accurately presented the fact that this was merely being reported. If it were simply one point, instead of existing on a list of similar issues, one year after a botched promotion based on Kraft thinking he had his guy—and his follow-on public statements regarding his confidence in his own coach-picking abilities—it would have less weight, IMHO.I think we should keep trying to ground this sort of conversation in the facts, and what is known vs. not
We have no evidence that that whole "open to being wowed" actually reflects Kraft's mindset, or that of anyone else in the process. It's a phrase that a journalist wrote up and did not attribute to anyone inside the Patriot's organization
We shouldn't assume that journalists are reporting anything accurate about what's happening in the room, unless they come with much more substantial evidence that anything that's been reported the last couple of weeks
I don’t hate Vrabel’s hiring, I hate the lack of process. I’m indifferent to Vrabel. He could be fine, he could suck. Better than the Mayo hiring from a pure coaching perspective but that would be true of just about anyoneHe hates Vrabel’s hiring. Need to make sure everyone gets reminded constantly.
I get the lack of process to an extent. There’s legit concerns there, but a sham extensive process isn’t better than a lack of an extensive process..I don’t hate Vrabel’s hiring, I hate the lack of process. I’m indifferent to Vrabel. He could be fine, he could suck. Better than the Mayo hiring from a pure coaching perspective but that would be true of just about anyone
Fair enoughThanks. I’m not assuming anything
If it were simply one point, instead of existing on a list of similar issues... it would have less weight, IMHO.
Really? If you were in a tent, and heard a lot of thumps and neighing outside and happened to be in a location that was known for zebra, and you heard a voice outside say, “Hey, look at the zebras!” you’d evaluate every single one of those factors independently in trying to determine what animals might be outside of your tent?Fair enough
And FWIW I'm Switzerland on the whole debate of to what degree the Krafts should be tarred-and-feathered for how they ran this process
And...
...FWIW, things should be given whatever weight they have earned, independent of the other evidence
Slander someone once, and it's inaccurate
Slander something a dozen time, it's no more accurate because the statements are part of a larger pattern
Things that are unsubstantiated should not be taken seriously. If other things have been substantiated, focus on those. Better to make a case with less solid evidence, than more evidence which is largely bogus
As you say, YMMV
"I think Mike's done a great job. Certainly his entry in coaching was no surprise to anyone that knew him. Coached him at New England. I talked to him when he was at Ohio State, and then when he went to the Texans, and then, of course, at Tennessee. We practiced against them," Belichick explained during an appearance on the Pat McAfee show.
"I’ve stayed in very close contact with Mike. So I have a ton of respect for Mike. I think he does a great job. He prepares his teams well, they’re very good in situational football, they’re tough, they’re competitive, they’re smart — just like he was as a player."
"I think teams that he’s coached and the positions he’s coached follow very much in his playing style and his preparation style," he added. "So, I love Mike. I love everything that he stands for as a football coach, and I have a lot of respect for him. I’m sure he’ll do a great job.”
You'd prefer Lou Holtz doing magic tricks?the rest seems like standard fare for an introductory presser. Of course he’s going to say they will play hard, they want to win etc
If you're going to declare yourself Switzerland, then act like Switzerland.Call it: "Why the Kraft suck and you should hate them with every fiber of your being" or something
OKIf you're going to declare yourself Switzerland, then act like Switzerland.
And then he was one of the first guys I hired in Houston and did a great job coaching. I always tell people, look at the development of guys like Whitney Mercilus, Jadeveon Clowney, Brian Cushing when we got there, Mike did all that, Mike coached the shit out of those guys.The part where BOB confirmed Vrabel “reached guys individually and got them playing to a higher level”
That seems like nonsense given the 2017 defensive results. It’s just smoke BOB is blowing to talk up a friend. Who on that 2017 Houston D played to a higher level that year? That unit was garbage and several of their best players regressed
Done.Hey Mods,
Could you split all these posts on the Krafts into a new thread?
Call it: "Why the Kraft suck and you should hate them with every fiber of your being" or something
But it would be good to keep this focused on Vrabel
I know Myt1, whose summary seemed spot on to me, addressed this and you responded. Since you also quoted me, I just want to add that I too was not necessarily taking the reporting as gospel and therefore specifically included the caveat “if the reporting is accurate” in my comment regarding the “open to be wowed” statement. I think it’s completely fair for us to draw inferences off of news reports, while acknowledging that when we do so they are just inferences, and that they are drawn from reports, not facts.I think we should keep trying to ground this sort of conversation in the facts, and what is known vs. not
We have no evidence that that whole "open to being wowed" actually reflects Kraft's mindset, or that of anyone else in the process. It's a phrase that a journalist wrote up and did not attribute to anyone inside the Patriot's organization
We shouldn't assume that journalists are reporting anything accurate about what's happening in the room, unless they come with much more substantial evidence that anything that's been reported the last couple of weeks
Is Cowden any good at this? The Giants are an absolute mess.Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
2m
The #Giants are allowing executive advisor to the GM Ryan Cowden out of his current deal and he is expected to join the #Patriots’ front office under Eliot Wolf, sources tell me and @RapSheet. Nothing finalized but the former #Titans exec will soon reunite with Mike Vrabel.
How much say did he even have in NY. That's Joe Schoen's show there. Cowden was part of the Panthers front office that went to the Super Bowl in 2015.Is Cowden any good at this? The Giants are an absolute mess.
Malik Nabers? (joking- that is like saying Maye is a sign of good drafting)Is Cowden any good at this? The Giants are an absolute mess.
Look at the drafts he was apart of in Tennessee. AJ Brown, Derrick Henry, Jeffrey Simmons, Jack Conklin, Jonnu Smith, Kevin Byard, Adoree Jackson, Rashaan Evans, Harold Landry, Kristian Fulton. In Carolina for the time he was either a national scout or assistant director of college scouting they drafted Shaq Thompson, Trai Turner, Star Lotuleili, Kawann Short, Luke Kuechly, Josh Norman, Cam Newton.Is Cowden any good at this? The Giants are an absolute mess.
He was an advisor, so not much of a role... TEN is where he had most of his high level experience... not a ton there to make a judgement on, only thing that was supposedly with him in charge is the 2023 draft.Is Cowden any good at this? The Giants are an absolute mess.
He was only with the Giants for a year as an Executive Advisor so hard to know how much input he really had. I also think the Giants problems are mostly QB related but that's another story.Is Cowden any good at this? The Giants are an absolute mess.
Mixed bag.. all of those picks are between 2016 and 2019, his last 4 drafts were quite bad including the one he was in charge of.Look at the drafts he was apart of in Tennessee. AJ Brown, Derrick Henry, Jeffrey Simmons, Jack Conklin, Jonnu Smith, Kevin Byard, Adoree Jackson, Rashaan Evans, Harold Landry, Kristian Fulton,
I agree with basically everything you said. And I believe this could be a perfectly good hire and I am reasonably sure we will see an upgrade in the quality of the coaching staff from this year to next.
But on point 5, I just want to add ( if the reporting is accurate ), that that thought process by Kraft is a little odd and does illuminate the limits of the search. It means that he was pretty much set on Vrabel, but acknowledged the possibility that there was someone out there who could conceivably “wow” him and blow him out of the water to the degree that he might change his mind. And then he identified one (1) person who might fall into that category*, interviewed him, and decided such a person probably didn’t exist and it was better to just hire Vrabel.
I mean, fine, the search was what the search was and this might be a very fine hire. Kraft seems more comfortable with people he knows. Lots of bosses are like that.
*Maybe two, if you count the other Lions coordinator.
I think his area was college scouting. Did a pretty decent job of helping to identify the right talent. Everyone has swings and misses.Mixed bag.. all of those picks are between 2016 and 2019, his last 4 drafts were quite bad including the one he was in charge of.
Other thing I notice... Jackson got cut and had much more success later, Conklin didn't have his 5th year option exercised and left, Brown got traded after 3 years (for a 1st they whiffed on), Jonnu they let go after 4 years, Fulton was let go and played better in LA, etc.
The Titans had what should have been a murderer's row of picks in the 2016-2019 drafts... they ended up with a couple good players, and a bunch of guys who actually ended up accumulating more value for someone else than TEN... then they kind of tanked the 2020-2023 drafts. I'd say that was a front office that had a good stretch then a really bad stretch... hard to judge.
Interesting. I had to look up that story. And Grimm was never a head coach. I can see being a little salty; HC of the Steelers is about as good a job as an NFL coach can get.Minor sidenote about this dynamic, Tomlin wasn't the heir apparent when he was hired by the Steelers. Russ Grimm was, everyone expected he would step right in, but Tomlin was one of the three finalists and blew the Rooneys away. I recall Grimm being a little salty about it for a while.
When he had a semblence of competent QB play, his teams did very well. When they did not, they struggled. Guess what the Patriots have at QB play? Good play with potential for elite play if developed correctly..545 win percentage with Tennessee, not sure why everyone is so excited ?
Because he knows how to do press conferences ?
I guess the proof will be in the pudding.
If he was hired, I would have been just as shocked as you guys.Well i stand corrected. He was obviously the one to hire. There could have been no complaints.