Vrabel named HC of the NEP

EddieYost

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I can't picture Mayo answering these questions anywhere near as well as Vrabel. He oozes confidence.
 

Manzivino

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Yeah I was leaning towards Johnson, but listening to Vrabel I realized this is the guy to get the team back to respectability. The culture needs a full reset and he's the right guy at the right time.
I have no idea if Vrabel can make the Patriots SB contenders long term, but I have no doubt he can rebuild them into a functioning professional organization moving in that direction.
 

cshea

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Maybe it's just because Mayo was so bad at press conferences but I thought Vrabel was outstanding. I'm ready to play football.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Bill O'Brien raved about Vrabel to Bedard.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2025/01/12/bedard-boston-colleges-bill-obrien-shares-his-unique-insight-on-mike-vrabels-return-to-the-patriots

GB: You had Mike on your staff. You went against him in the AFC South ... What's your reaction to the news?

BOB
: Yeah, I was very happy for the Patriots and for Mike. I knew, obviously Mike from when I coached with the Patriots the first time around. Mike was the type of guy, no matter what position you had on the coaching staff, he knew everybody. So I was quality control/wide receiver coach while Mike was there, and we got to know each other. And then when I went to Penn State, I tried to hire him at Penn State - he wasn't going to leave Ohio State. And then he was one of the first guys I hired in Houston and did a great job coaching. I always tell people, look at the development of guys like Whitney Mercilus, Jadeveon Clowney, Brian Cushing when we got there, Mike did all that, Mike coached the shit out of those guys. Then he was the defensive coordinator in '17, we weren't very good, we had a lot of injuries. And then he got the head job at the Titans, and then we coached against him, and had battles and went back and forth. Just a very well-coached team, very tough team. We had similar type teams, you know, Houston and Tennessee, when I was there. He just did a great job. And he's the thing about Mike, he's a great friend. He's a good guy. He's a man's man. He knows a lot about your family. He's just a really good, good person, you know, good guy. It's a great choice by the Krafts.
In Houston, did he do a good job of reaching guys individually and getting them to play at a higher level?

That's probably one of the things that he does the best. That's a strength of his, that he has a way of getting to know somebody and understanding where the guy comes from, what makes the guy tick, how to inspire a guy. We always talk about not necessarily motivating somebody, but just inspiring somebody to be more than what they are. And that's one of his strengths. He does a really good job of that. He's very smart, right? So he knows how coach the positions. He knows both sides of the ball, special teams. He's got a good base of knowledge that'll really help those guys get better at every position.
He went to the Browns and helped with the tight ends and offensive line, and learned how they approached analytics. Does that surprise you?

Yeah, I knew that he was doing that, and that didn't surprise me at all, because he's the type of guy that he could probably go coach the offensive line for the Cleveland Browns, or coach the tight ends. He understands what it what it takes to teach those positions, because he's put the time in. I remember one time we did a staff clinic. So I gave each guy, like an area to kind of present to the subject as present to the staff. And he had tackling. So he went through all the different types of tackles that took place that year, in whatever year it was, 2016 in the NFL. Side tackles, straight-on tackles, sideline tackles, angle ... I mean, just all kinds of different tackles. And he presented it to the staff, and had different ways to teach tackling, and different ways to think about tackling, how to take on a stiff arm. It was really, really good. And I think that's what he is. He puts a lot of time into all facets of football. And I think that's why you saw that he could, you know, help out with the offensive line in Cleveland this year.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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It’s a fun puff piece but Vrabel’s one year as DC in Houston, they had the worst defense in the NFL. 32 out of 32

so take anything BOB says about Vrabel’s defensive prowess or ability to develop defensive talent with many grains of salt

A decent CEO coach he might be, as he was in Tennessee. A defensive whiz, I don’t think there’s any evidence of that.
 

Justthetippett

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I can't picture Mayo answering these questions anywhere near as well as Vrabel. He oozes confidence.
He clearly feels like he knows what he's doing, which unfortunately Mayo clearly did not. Could almost sense his lack of confidence in every answer this past year...what should I say, what do they want me to say...Vrabel has none of that. LFG.
 

BaseballJones

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He clearly feels like he knows what he's doing, which unfortunately Mayo clearly did not. Could almost sense his lack of confidence in every answer this past year...what should I say, what do they want me to say...Vrabel has none of that. LFG.
He very much came across to me full of confidence. His experience has been super beneficial to him.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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It’s a fun puff piece but Vrabel’s one year as DC in Houston, they had the worst defense in the NFL. 32 out of 32

so take anything BOB says about Vrabel’s defensive prowess or ability to develop defensive talent with many grains of salt

A decent CEO coach he might be, as he was in Tennessee. A defensive whiz, I don’t think there’s any evidence of that.
Good thing that he wasn't hired to be the DC
 
Oct 12, 2023
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The big takeaway other than generic talking points is that he claims to not have any idea who his coordinators will be (likely BS) and seems to love the idea of working with Wolf.

the rest seems like standard fare for an introductory presser. Of course he’s going to say they will play hard, they want to win etc
 

Over Guapo Grande

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BOB mentioned in the "puff piece" that they were last in defense with MV as a coordinator. And then he grew as a coach. So I am not sure what your point was with this:


It’s a fun puff piece but Vrabel’s one year as DC in Houston, they had the worst defense in the NFL. 32 out of 32

so take anything BOB says about Vrabel’s defensive prowess or ability to develop defensive talent with many grains of salt

A decent CEO coach he might be, as he was in Tennessee. A defensive whiz, I don’t think there’s any evidence of that.
 

Myt1

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I think we should keep trying to ground this sort of conversation in the facts, and what is known vs. not

We have no evidence that that whole "open to being wowed" actually reflects Kraft's mindset, or that of anyone else in the process. It's a phrase that a journalist wrote up and did not attribute to anyone inside the Patriot's organization

We shouldn't assume that journalists are reporting anything accurate about what's happening in the room, unless they come with much more substantial evidence that anything that's been reported the last couple of weeks
Thanks. I’m not assuming anything, and I accurately presented the fact that this was merely being reported. If it were simply one point, instead of existing on a list of similar issues, one year after a botched promotion based on Kraft thinking he had his guy—and his follow-on public statements regarding his confidence in his own coach-picking abilities—it would have less weight, IMHO.

There’s a lot of smoke here. You can give whatever weight you want to it.
 

sezwho

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Thought he made some interesting observations about developing the offense and specifically the qb. First, he said put great people around them. Pablum but true, sure. Then he talked about ‘protecting the middle of the pocket’ and having ‘an efficient passing offense’.

I wonder how those last two manifest.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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He hates Vrabel’s hiring. Need to make sure everyone gets reminded constantly.
I don’t hate Vrabel’s hiring, I hate the lack of process. I’m indifferent to Vrabel. He could be fine, he could suck. Better than the Mayo hiring from a pure coaching perspective but that would be true of just about anyone
 

NortheasternPJ

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I don’t hate Vrabel’s hiring, I hate the lack of process. I’m indifferent to Vrabel. He could be fine, he could suck. Better than the Mayo hiring from a pure coaching perspective but that would be true of just about anyone
I get the lack of process to an extent. There’s legit concerns there, but a sham extensive process isn’t better than a lack of an extensive process..

Who was your 1st choice?
 

Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache

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Thanks. I’m not assuming anything
Fair enough

And FWIW I'm Switzerland on the whole debate of to what degree the Krafts should be tarred-and-feathered for how they ran this process

And...

If it were simply one point, instead of existing on a list of similar issues... it would have less weight, IMHO.

...FWIW, things should be given whatever weight they have earned, independent of the other evidence

Slander someone once, and it's inaccurate

Slander something a dozen time, it's no more accurate because the statements are part of a larger pattern

Things that are unsubstantiated should not be taken seriously. If other things have been substantiated, focus on those. Better to make a case with less solid evidence, than more evidence which is largely bogus

As you say, YMMV
 

Myt1

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Fair enough

And FWIW I'm Switzerland on the whole debate of to what degree the Krafts should be tarred-and-feathered for how they ran this process

And...




...FWIW, things should be given whatever weight they have earned, independent of the other evidence

Slander someone once, and it's inaccurate

Slander something a dozen time, it's no more accurate because the statements are part of a larger pattern

Things that are unsubstantiated should not be taken seriously. If other things have been substantiated, focus on those. Better to make a case with less solid evidence, than more evidence which is largely bogus

As you say, YMMV
Really? If you were in a tent, and heard a lot of thumps and neighing outside and happened to be in a location that was known for zebra, and you heard a voice outside say, “Hey, look at the zebras!” you’d evaluate every single one of those factors independently in trying to determine what animals might be outside of your tent?

Of course not. Because that’s not how reasoning works.

You have no idea if the report is slander or bogus or accurate. I don’t either. It is consistent, however, with prior behavior. Consistency with prior behavior carries a greater indicia of potential likelihood.
 

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Belichick weighs in on the Vrabel hiring today

"I think Mike's done a great job. Certainly his entry in coaching was no surprise to anyone that knew him. Coached him at New England. I talked to him when he was at Ohio State, and then when he went to the Texans, and then, of course, at Tennessee. We practiced against them," Belichick explained during an appearance on the Pat McAfee show.

"I’ve stayed in very close contact with Mike. So I have a ton of respect for Mike. I think he does a great job. He prepares his teams well, they’re very good in situational football, they’re tough, they’re competitive, they’re smart — just like he was as a player."

"I think teams that he’s coached and the positions he’s coached follow very much in his playing style and his preparation style," he added. "So, I love Mike. I love everything that he stands for as a football coach, and I have a lot of respect for him. I’m sure he’ll do a great job.”
 

Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache

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If you're going to declare yourself Switzerland, then act like Switzerland.
OK

Erklären Sie, warum die Krafts miserabel sind und Sie sie aus tiefstem Herzen verabscheuen sollten




Edit: I'm Switzerland in that I have no desire to engage in this debate, which I find kinda boring and stupid. And would love it if all of you would take it out in the parking lot, and leave the threads that are supposed to be about other things to those things.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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The part where BOB confirmed Vrabel “reached guys individually and got them playing to a higher level”

That seems like nonsense given the 2017 defensive results. It’s just smoke BOB is blowing to talk up a friend. Who on that 2017 Houston D played to a higher level that year? That unit was garbage and several of their best players regressed
And then he was one of the first guys I hired in Houston and did a great job coaching. I always tell people, look at the development of guys like Whitney Mercilus, Jadeveon Clowney, Brian Cushing when we got there, Mike did all that, Mike coached the shit out of those guys.


As we have seen-it takes more than 3 people to a defense make.


EDIT- This got caught in the thread move - meant to be in the Vrabel thread.
 
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snowmanny

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I think we should keep trying to ground this sort of conversation in the facts, and what is known vs. not

We have no evidence that that whole "open to being wowed" actually reflects Kraft's mindset, or that of anyone else in the process. It's a phrase that a journalist wrote up and did not attribute to anyone inside the Patriot's organization

We shouldn't assume that journalists are reporting anything accurate about what's happening in the room, unless they come with much more substantial evidence that anything that's been reported the last couple of weeks
I know Myt1, whose summary seemed spot on to me, addressed this and you responded. Since you also quoted me, I just want to add that I too was not necessarily taking the reporting as gospel and therefore specifically included the caveat “if the reporting is accurate” in my comment regarding the “open to be wowed” statement. I think it’s completely fair for us to draw inferences off of news reports, while acknowledging that when we do so they are just inferences, and that they are drawn from reports, not facts.
 

amfox1

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The #Giants are allowing executive advisor to the GM Ryan Cowden out of his current deal and he is expected to join the #Patriots’ front office under Eliot Wolf, sources tell me and @RapSheet. Nothing finalized but the former #Titans exec will soon reunite with Mike Vrabel.
 

amfox1

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Giants senior advisor Ryan Cowden has accepted a job with the Patriots, per sources. Cowden will have a big role in the New England front office, and be reunited with Mike Vrabel. Title will be along the lines of VP of player personnel. He'll be de facto No. 2 to Eliot Wolf.
 

BaseballJones

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The #Giants are allowing executive advisor to the GM Ryan Cowden out of his current deal and he is expected to join the #Patriots’ front office under Eliot Wolf, sources tell me and @RapSheet. Nothing finalized but the former #Titans exec will soon reunite with Mike Vrabel.
Is Cowden any good at this? The Giants are an absolute mess.
 

RedOctober3829

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Is Cowden any good at this? The Giants are an absolute mess.
Look at the drafts he was apart of in Tennessee. AJ Brown, Derrick Henry, Jeffrey Simmons, Jack Conklin, Jonnu Smith, Kevin Byard, Adoree Jackson, Rashaan Evans, Harold Landry, Kristian Fulton. In Carolina for the time he was either a national scout or assistant director of college scouting they drafted Shaq Thompson, Trai Turner, Star Lotuleili, Kawann Short, Luke Kuechly, Josh Norman, Cam Newton.
 

Cellar-Door

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Is Cowden any good at this? The Giants are an absolute mess.
He was an advisor, so not much of a role... TEN is where he had most of his high level experience... not a ton there to make a judgement on, only thing that was supposedly with him in charge is the 2023 draft.

In terms of overall performance when he was the #2 or #3 guy..... not great. Some really good drafts up through 2019, but 2020-2022 were rough (But Robinson was in charge)
 

cshea

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Is Cowden any good at this? The Giants are an absolute mess.
He was only with the Giants for a year as an Executive Advisor so hard to know how much input he really had. I also think the Giants problems are mostly QB related but that's another story.

Cowden was the #2 in Tennessee under Robinson when Vrabel was HC. Was briefly the intermin GM after Robinson was fired. Spent 15 years with the Panthers working his way up the scouting ranks ultimately becoming the assistant director of college scouting before going to the Titans. At first glance, the Titans seemed to draft reasonably well while he was there.
 

Cellar-Door

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Look at the drafts he was apart of in Tennessee. AJ Brown, Derrick Henry, Jeffrey Simmons, Jack Conklin, Jonnu Smith, Kevin Byard, Adoree Jackson, Rashaan Evans, Harold Landry, Kristian Fulton,
Mixed bag.. all of those picks are between 2016 and 2019, his last 4 drafts were quite bad including the one he was in charge of.
Other thing I notice... Jackson got cut and had much more success later, Conklin didn't have his 5th year option exercised and left, Brown got traded after 3 years (for a 1st they whiffed on), Jonnu they let go after 4 years, Fulton was let go and played better in LA, etc.
The Titans had what should have been a murderer's row of picks in the 2016-2019 drafts... they ended up with a couple good players, and a bunch of guys who actually ended up accumulating more value for someone else than TEN... then they kind of tanked the 2020-2023 drafts. I'd say that was a front office that had a good stretch then a really bad stretch... hard to judge.
 

joe dokes

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It's hard to know precisely what Cowden's roles were. But we can be pretty sure that he knows the basic parameters of what Vrabel wants. Doesn't mean they'll be good picks, but if Vrabel is confident that everyone is "tall" or "smart" or whatever qualities he values (and Vrabel knows what Vrabel values; at this point, I'm not certain that Mayo knew what kind of player Mayo wanted.), it adds some cohesiveness to the player acquisition process. I'm also going to guess that it wont quite be the black box that Belichick was.
 

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From skimming the guy's professional bio... He came up through the ranks. Was hired as a regional scout >20 years ago and then was promoted about every 2-3 years since then. That tends to me that someone is good and does good work

He obviously has some credibility with Vrabel, who in general does not suffer fools

If Cowden helps Wolf and Vrabel work together better, because he's in the weeds with the first and can anticipate the reactions of, translate, go-between to the second, that might help some things go smoother.

And, in general, to the extent the front office is understaffed and we know we want to add people, we could do worse than add folks who have been successful and promoted most everywhere they've been
 

KiltedFool

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I agree with basically everything you said. And I believe this could be a perfectly good hire and I am reasonably sure we will see an upgrade in the quality of the coaching staff from this year to next.

But on point 5, I just want to add ( if the reporting is accurate ), that that thought process by Kraft is a little odd and does illuminate the limits of the search. It means that he was pretty much set on Vrabel, but acknowledged the possibility that there was someone out there who could conceivably “wow” him and blow him out of the water to the degree that he might change his mind. And then he identified one (1) person who might fall into that category*, interviewed him, and decided such a person probably didn’t exist and it was better to just hire Vrabel.

I mean, fine, the search was what the search was and this might be a very fine hire. Kraft seems more comfortable with people he knows. Lots of bosses are like that.

*Maybe two, if you count the other Lions coordinator.

Minor sidenote about this dynamic, Tomlin wasn't the heir apparent when he was hired by the Steelers. Russ Grimm was, everyone expected he would step right in, but Tomlin was one of the three finalists and blew the Rooneys away. I recall Grimm being a little salty about it for a while.
 

RedOctober3829

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Mixed bag.. all of those picks are between 2016 and 2019, his last 4 drafts were quite bad including the one he was in charge of.
Other thing I notice... Jackson got cut and had much more success later, Conklin didn't have his 5th year option exercised and left, Brown got traded after 3 years (for a 1st they whiffed on), Jonnu they let go after 4 years, Fulton was let go and played better in LA, etc.
The Titans had what should have been a murderer's row of picks in the 2016-2019 drafts... they ended up with a couple good players, and a bunch of guys who actually ended up accumulating more value for someone else than TEN... then they kind of tanked the 2020-2023 drafts. I'd say that was a front office that had a good stretch then a really bad stretch... hard to judge.
I think his area was college scouting. Did a pretty decent job of helping to identify the right talent. Everyone has swings and misses.
 

biollante

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.545 win percentage with Tennessee, not sure why everyone is so excited ?
Because he knows how to do press conferences ?
I guess the proof will be in the pudding.
 

snowmanny

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Minor sidenote about this dynamic, Tomlin wasn't the heir apparent when he was hired by the Steelers. Russ Grimm was, everyone expected he would step right in, but Tomlin was one of the three finalists and blew the Rooneys away. I recall Grimm being a little salty about it for a while.
Interesting. I had to look up that story. And Grimm was never a head coach. I can see being a little salty; HC of the Steelers is about as good a job as an NFL coach can get.
 

RedOctober3829

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.545 win percentage with Tennessee, not sure why everyone is so excited ?
Because he knows how to do press conferences ?
I guess the proof will be in the pudding.
When he had a semblence of competent QB play, his teams did very well. When they did not, they struggled. Guess what the Patriots have at QB play? Good play with potential for elite play if developed correctly.