Victor Oladipo to Houston

nighthob

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That's a pretty short-sighted deal. But I guess as they don't control their first they want to try and make the playoffs anyway so that the CP3 and three firsts plus pick swaps for John Wall and a far future first doesn't look so biblically awful.
 

BigSoxFan

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Everything must go! Complete teardown for Houston, which is probably the right approach.
 

scottyno

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Levert is a better player today, is cheaper, younger, and has 2 more years of team control.

So this makes a ton of sense for a team that doesn't control it's own draft pick this year unless it's top 4, unless they're getting something really really good back.
 

TripleOT

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Maybe Oladipo will be bought out at the deadline. He would be great off the bench for Boston’s playoff run
 

nighthob

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Houston isn't tanking, they're betting on an Oladipo recovery to get them into the 2021 playoffs before blowing it up next summer.
 

radsoxfan

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Maybe I like LaVert more than most, but I don't get this part of the deal for Houston at all.

Going forward isn't having Lavert on a reasonable deal for a few yers better than buying out Oladipo or getting something worse than LaVert back for him at the trade deadline?
 

Tony C

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I love it for the Pacers, too. On talent, on contract and just that Victor O was unhappy and needed to be moved.
 

nighthob

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Maybe I like LaVert more than most, but I don't get this part of the deal for Houston at all.

Going forward isn't having Lavert on a reasonable deal for a few yers better than buying out Oladipo or getting something worse than LaVert back for him at the trade deadline?
LaVert has a lengthy injury history himself, and Houston's betting that Oladipo is extra motivated in a contract year. If Oladipo helps carry the Rockets into the playoffs in the minds of management they've justified the very visible part of the Russell Westbrook trade (the loss of their '21 #1). If/when Oladipo walks next summer the Rockets control their own picks in '22 and '23. So those will be the teardown years with the hopes that they find cornerstone guys to build around. After that their draft belongs to OKC and they're praying that the Nets implode.
 

Cellar-Door

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Maybe I like LaVert more than most, but I don't get this part of the deal for Houston at all.

Going forward isn't having Lavert on a reasonable deal for a few yers better than buying out Oladipo or getting something worse than LaVert back for him at the trade deadline?
They could think that they'd rather have 22M in cap space in the summer than either. and letting Oladipo walk gets them there
 

radsoxfan

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They could think that they'd rather have 22M in cap space in the summer than either. and letting Oladipo walk gets them there
I guess so, I just had the sense (perhaps wrongly), that Lavert has a decent amount of positive value on his deal. If they want cap space, trade him for something else.

I don't really see Oladipo with a ton of value as an unhappy expiring, though I guess maybe he does have more upside if a contender gets desperate.

Having Oladipo help them maybe sneak in as a #8 seed doesn't make any sense to me. It's tear down time already.
 

nighthob

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I guess so, I just had the sense (perhaps wrongly), that Lavert has a decent amount of positive value on his deal. If they want cap space, trade him for something else.

I don't really see Oladipo with a ton of value as an unhappy expiring, though I guess maybe he does have more upside if a contender gets desperate.

Having Oladipo help them maybe sneak in as a #8 seed doesn't make any sense to me. It's tear down time already.
They don’t have a first round pick this year, it was already dealt as part of the Westbrook trade. So they’re trying to bleed every win out of their team in order to justify it. Losing the 16th/17th pick for the 22nd one and no one cares. Lose the 8th pick for the 22nd? And people don’t stop talking about it.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Ah, thanks. So they just expanded the original deal.
That is the latest detail.

I like LeVert for Indy and feel like he is a better fit than Oladipo - if only because its a fresh start for both sides (Oladipo has historically been the better player overall). If Sabonis continues to improve, Indiana, who is already a decent team, gets a touch better defensively and their offense is probably around the same given Dipo's struggles the last few seasons.
 

scottyno

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They don’t have a first round pick this year, it was already dealt as part of the Westbrook trade. So they’re trying to bleed every win out of their team in order to justify it. Losing the 16th/17th pick for the 22nd one and no one cares. Lose the 8th pick for the 22nd? And people don’t stop talking about it.
They have their first this year if it ends up 1-4
 

nighthob

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They have their first this year if it ends up 1-4
Which there was a 25% chance of them doing if they were the worst team in the NBA. Which they weren't going to be because they still have decent roleplayers and were likely to sink no lower than #8. Meaning that the odds were, nearly certainly, that OKC was going to get their pick this year. I've already said that I think the Oladipo deal was a shortsighted attempt to justify the horrendous Westbrook deal(s) and that they should have looked for better longterm value for LaVert.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Steph and Oladipo were making serious goo-goo eyes together after last night’s game. He’d be perfect in GS with the Big 3 and JDub, if they could get the $$$ to work...
 

radsoxfan

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They don’t have a first round pick this year, it was already dealt as part of the Westbrook trade. So they’re trying to bleed every win out of their team in order to justify it.
It's entirely possible thats their motive but I think it's silly. Bleed out every win to maybe sneak into a first round playoff defeat? Why?

I get they aren't in the mix to tank, but even so, I just think Lavert makes more long term sense as a trade chip or player on a reasonable deal the next 2 seasons after this one.
 

ColonelMustard

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Which there was a 25% chance of them doing if they were the worst team in the NBA. Which they weren't going to be because they still have decent roleplayers and were likely to sink no lower than #8. Meaning that the odds were, nearly certainly, that OKC was going to get their pick this year. I've already said that I think the Oladipo deal was a shortsighted attempt to justify the horrendous Westbrook deal(s) and that they should have looked for better longterm value for LaVert.
Could they get a mid-to-late round pick for Oladipo though? They might be able to convince a contender to part with late picks for their role players as well. It's way too early to tell but the "spray and pray approach" seemed to work better this year and more steals were found later in the draft. (Editors note: This is a VERY circumstantial observation on my part) This could perhaps be due to less information due to the pandemic, canceled games (march madness), NBA 2020 schedule challenges, and scouting restrictions. This could also happen in 2021.
 

scottyno

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Which there was a 25% chance of them doing if they were the worst team in the NBA. Which they weren't going to be because they still have decent roleplayers and were likely to sink no lower than #8. Meaning that the odds were, nearly certainly, that OKC was going to get their pick this year. I've already said that I think the Oladipo deal was a shortsighted attempt to justify the horrendous Westbrook deal(s) and that they should have looked for better longterm value for LaVert.
That's not even close to right, they could be the 8th worst team and still have better than a 25% chance of having a top 4 pick.
 

nighthob

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It's entirely possible thats their motive but I think it's silly. Bleed out every win to maybe sneak into a first round playoff defeat? Why?
Oh, I agree with this. I started with the remark that it was shortsighted. I'm sure there were better longterm trades for LaVert. They just had to accept that they were going to suck this year and get nothing but Miami's (or possibly Brooklyn's) #1 for their pain.
 

nighthob

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Could they get a mid-to-late round pick for Oladipo though? They might be able to convince a contender to part with late picks for their role players as well. It's way too early to tell but the "spray and pray approach" seemed to work better this year and more steals were found later in the draft. (Editors note: This is a VERY circumstantial observation on my part) This could perhaps be due to less information due to the pandemic, canceled games (march madness), NBA 2020 schedule challenges, and scouting restrictions. This could also happen in 2021.
If someone with something to trade were to make a serious offer I'm sure they'd take it. The '21 draft runs about 20 players deep, so if they could land a pick in the 14-18 range for him they'd likely do it in hopes of striking it big.
 

scottyno

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Prayers aren't a rebuilding plan.
What's the prayer? That team without any talent replacing Harden is really bad, they could easily be one of the worst teams and then they likely keep their pick.

If their goal is to try and make the playoffs this year giving up Allen for a late 1st makes no sense.
 

scottyno

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They're 3-6, they beat a bad kings team twice and a shorthanded magic team and just traded by far their best player. Beyond Christian Wood there's really nothing on that team under contract beyond this year that you'd actually want on your NBA team, where exactly is this talent? And the talent that's expiring isn't enough talent to actually win you anything this year.
 

nighthob

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John Wall, Eric Gordon, Danuel House, Christian Wood. I hate to break it to you, they ain’t horrible players. Wall is overpaid thanks to all the injuries, but he’s still a decent player. They were never going to be in competition with the worst of the worst. Their odds of their keeping their pick were negligible. Much like the Nets teams of the middle of last decade, tanking for a future just wasn’t an option because their draft was owned by another team.
 

amarshal2

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I saw speculation about Oladipo as a buyout but why wait. Thoughts on him in the TPE? Whoever is healthier between him and Kemba starts and the other runs the bench. He’s a good defensive player and conceivably could make their best lineup over Kemba.
 
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nighthob

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Why would Houston have paid a second round pick in order to acquire a buyout? If all they were interested in doing was unloading LaVert for air teams would have actually given up picks for him (like Boston, for one).
 

scottyno

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John Wall, Eric Gordon, Danuel House, Christian Wood. I hate to break it to you, they ain’t horrible players. Wall is overpaid thanks to all the injuries, but he’s still a decent player. They were never going to be in competition with the worst of the worst. Their odds of their keeping their pick were negligible. Much like the Nets teams of the middle of last decade, tanking for a future just wasn’t an option because their draft was owned by another team.
When they're the best players on your team that's pretty horrible. Gordon isn't that good, especially with no Harden for defenses to key on, House is mediocre, and sure Wall is decent but making a bajillion dollars to be decent.

We also seem to have different definitions of negligible.
 

bakahump

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Anyway the celts could pry him away from Houston?
Would they want to?
Would it be a wise move?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Anyway the celts could pry him away from Houston?
Would they want to?
Would it be a wise move?
Maybe and maybe. Hard to really know what kind of return Oladipo gets and a lot of it would depend if he'd re-sign here or not. I'm also not sure the C's can really afford to pay him with Kemba on the books anyway.

I'd say most likely, it would not be a wise move. You'd be getting rid of a few of the young guys who have shown promise and are on cheap contracts for at least another season if not 3 more for a guy you may not be able to re-sign.

Chances are if you are getting Oladipo, you wouldn't really be subtracting impact players from the roster this year (maybe PP). So it would definitely make the current team a lot better.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Anyway the celts could pry him away from Houston?
Would they want to?
Would it be a wise move?
As always, it depends on asking price. Oladipo fits pretty nicely into the TPE, so it just depends on how many, and what combination, of picks/players Houston would be looking for. My guess, though, is that there is some other team out there that would be able to put together a better offer than what the Celtics might reasonably offer.

Edit: And that's assuming they want to trade him at all, of course. As many others have theorized they want to give it as much of a go as they can this year to justify their other trades and because they don't really have much to lose since they basically already traded away all of their own picks for the next few years.
 

bakahump

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I suppose a Rockets Sign and Trade (Using the TPE....which would still be available right) might be in order If Vic wants to go to Boston/Contender. That would certainly lesson the Cost they could extract (say a 2022 1st? which would be deep into the 20s)

Work the phones Jalen and Jason! :p

Does he fit schematically? Or are he and Jalen redundant.
 

OurF'ingCity

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I suppose a Rockets Sign and Trade (Using the TPE....which would still be available right) might be in order If Vic wants to go to Boston/Contender. That would certainly lesson the Cost they could extract (say a 2022 1st? which would be deep into the 20s)

Work the phones Jalen and Jason! :p

Does he fit schematically? Or are he and Jalen redundant.
Can't do sign-and-trades during the season, and the Rockets won't even be able to sign-and-trade Oladipo in the offseason because the player has to have started the previous season with the same team.
 

the moops

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This is such an odd move for HOU. The chances of them making the playoffs with Oladipo compared to Levert is barely different, if at all. And instead of having a guy in Levert that they could move in the offseason for assets, they have an Oladipo who is a free agent.
 

nighthob

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This is such an odd move for HOU. The chances of them making the playoffs with Oladipo compared to Levert is barely different, if at all. And instead of having a guy in Levert that they could move in the offseason for assets, they have an Oladipo who is a free agent.
Oladipo's peak is better than anything LaVert's likely to produce. Whether he can ever hit it again is obviously the question.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The other part of this is that perhaps Houston just really didn't like LeVert and felt his max value was dealing him off now as opposed to later when his game might be exposed to more usage. He is a decent player but unless he is about to make a leap at age 26, he is simply rotational and is well paid for that role. In the end, I don't think Houston choosing Oladipo over LeVert should be interpreted as anything other than the Rockets trying to mend their payroll as well as buy a lottery ticket on the cheap. Its not likely to amount to a big deal for the club in the long term and probably won't impact their results much at all this year.
 

nighthob

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The other part of this is that perhaps Houston just really didn't like LeVert and felt his max value was dealing him off now as opposed to later when his game might be exposed to more usage. He is a decent player but unless he is about to make a leap at age 26, he is simply rotational and is well paid for that role. In the end, I don't think Houston choosing Oladipo over LeVert should be interpreted as anything other than the Rockets trying to mend their payroll as well as buy a lottery ticket on the cheap. Its not likely to amount to a big deal for the club in the long term and probably won't impact their results much at all this year.
Yeah, my only complaint with the deal is that they could have gotten draft capital for the rebuild from LaVert rather than a short term justify the Westbrook trade deal. There were a lot of teams, including Boston, that could have given them picks/prospects for LaVert to help speed up the rebuild. But it would have looked bad when they conveyed a top ten pick to OKC.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah, my only complaint with the deal is that they could have gotten draft capital for the rebuild from LaVert rather than a short term justify the Westbrook trade deal. There were a lot of teams, including Boston, that could have given them picks/prospects for LaVert to help speed up the rebuild. But it would have looked bad when they conveyed a top ten pick to OKC.
The problem with analyzing this deal and the Harden one is that the only information we have is what has been reported on. We don't know what Boston would have surrendered for LeVert or if they would have been in on him at all. He would fit on the roster but he is well paid for what he does - its not clear he'd be the kind of guy that Danny/Zarren could sell to Wyc as being worth amping up their tax bill. Its the same thing as the questions about Philly - we don't know how serious they were in the Harden sweepstakes and what Houston would have actually required to get the deal done.

At the end of the day, all we know is that the Rockets preferred having Oladipo over LeVert on their roster. The rest is just stuff we are collectively imagining in the space between our ears.
 

nighthob

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The problem with analyzing this deal and the Harden one is that the only information we have is what has been reported on. We don't know what Boston would have surrendered for LeVert or if they would have been in on him at all. He would fit on the roster but he is well paid for what he does - its not clear he'd be the kind of guy that Danny/Zarren could sell to Wyc as being worth amping up their tax bill. Its the same thing as the questions about Philly - we don't know how serious they were in the Harden sweepstakes and what Houston would have actually required to get the deal done.

At the end of the day, all we know is that the Rockets preferred having Oladipo over LeVert on their roster. The rest is just stuff we are collectively imagining in the space between our ears.
I don't think that they ever considered getting picks for LaVert at all, they were willing to pay a second rounder for the chance of conveying a mid first rather than a top ten pick. Those sorts of deals are short-sighted. Especially if the NBA puts off the draft question until the next CBA, because without a double draft on the horizon the '22 pool is suddenly a lot less enticing and the '23 pool might not be terribly deep. Houston made a huge bet on those two drafts with a real possibility of no safety net.
 

shoelace

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The other part of this is that perhaps Houston just really didn't like LeVert and felt his max value was dealing him off now as opposed to later when his game might be exposed to more usage. He is a decent player but unless he is about to make a leap at age 26, he is simply rotational and is well paid for that role. In the end, I don't think Houston choosing Oladipo over LeVert should be interpreted as anything other than the Rockets trying to mend their payroll as well as buy a lottery ticket on the cheap. Its not likely to amount to a big deal for the club in the long term and probably won't impact their results much at all this year.
I think this is pretty much spot on. I find it hard to imagine that Houston didn't get a sense of the kinds of future assets that other teams would have been willing to deal for LeVert before trading him for Oladipo. We can guess that the potential return was lacking because the league does not value LeVert as highly as some in this thread.

Or, perhaps they felt the ability to showcase Oladipo and then spin him off at the trade deadline would lead to a better haul than whatever they could get for LeVert now. Now that's a gamble, but I think there's an underlying logic to the move.