USWNT post-World Cup

If there's a ball near you and me, and I swing my leg FIRST, and *after* I start swinging my leg, you stick your leg out between my foot and the ball, and my foot strikes your leg, it's automatically a foul on me? Even though I started my kicking motion first?
How slowly are you kicking your foot in this situation, exactly? That hypothetical makes the call sound ridiculous - which it would be, under those conditions. But the two actions in the actual game were simultaneous enough that the intent you suggest cannot be inferred from the situation. We've seen red cards awarded via VAR when a player kicks the ball and then follows through with his studs into an opponent's chest; that seems more egregious to me than the USA-Canada situation.
 

hunter05

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I personally don’t think the penalty is that egregious. She got between the ball and the defender and was kicked. I think CP has it right. During the normal flow of play that isn’t going to be called. Once I saw the replay and that it was going to VAR, I knew they’d rule it a penalty. If only to spare Reggiecleveland from going nuclear and destroying the planet. More upset about the lack communication and overall terrible play.
 

Silverdude2167

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I personally don’t think the penalty is that egregious. She got between the ball and the defender and was kicked. I think CP has it right. During the normal flow of play that isn’t going to be called. Once I saw the replay and that it was going to VAR, I knew they’d rule it a penalty. If only to spare Reggiecleveland from going nuclear and destroying the planet. More upset about the lack communication and overall terrible play.
I don't understand how you can think this is a penalty.

View: https://twitter.com/TelemundoSports/status/1422130258069893122?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1422130258069893122%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Folympics%2F2021%2F08%2F02%2Fuswnt-canada-video-highlights-olympics-lavelle-morgan-ertz


Why does the Canadian player have more of a right to the ball?
She did not play it but was chasing a ball over the top. She never had possession or even made an attempt to play the ball, if she had played it around the defender and then got kicked like this sure. But she commits more of a foul here than the defender, she prevented her from kicking the ball.

I have never seen a player who was a step behind the person about to kick the ball get in front of the player trying to kick the ball and get the benefit of the call.

The two screen caps below you can see at 0 and 1 seconds both the distance and that the start of the kicking motion has stared in the screen caps below. The Canadian player is behind the defender and initating contact...how do you see this and think penalty?


43119

43118

These are good views, how does this person have more of a right to the ball and how is the lunge not a foul?

43122

43121
 

67YAZ

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How slowly are you kicking your foot in this situation, exactly? That hypothetical makes the call sound ridiculous - which it would be, under those conditions. But the two actions in the actual game were simultaneous enough that the intent you suggest cannot be inferred from the situation. We've seen red cards awarded via VAR when a player kicks the ball and then follows through with his studs into an opponent's chest; that seems more egregious to me than the USA-Canada situation.
I get pissy on this topic as a defender. There’s a basic asymmetry in the way the game is officiated - when an attacker enters the box with the ball, every defender knows that an arm away from your body, a dangling foot, going to ground for the block, or even going shoulder to shoulder can draw a PK. But as soon as they lose the ball, attackers go into full scrum mode and rarely get called for it. Most of the time, defenders know that’s the way the world goes round and no one wants to hear your griping. But when an attacker gets into your leg swing? C’mon. That’s how people get really hurt.
 
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67YAZ

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Match is being replayed in entirety on NBCSN starting now (9am central)…in case anyone need to rage up again.
 

Kliq

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I think its a penalty. Are we sure the Canadian player isn't playing the ball? To my eyes, she beat the American player at the last second and was looking to seal off the defender while also controlling the ball to head towards the goal, and the American player was just trying to boot the ball away for a clearance. In this case, the faster and more aggressive player won the position and the American player definitely committed a foul in kicking her leg out from underneath her.
 

67YAZ

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I hope the USA women are happy the rest of the world is catching up. It is hard to describe how hated they were in countries where women don't even get to play, and players had to fundraise/borrow money to get to the world cup when they complained about their share, what they got for money.

USA still has huge advantage, and the NCAA trained most of if not all our team.

Unlike other Canadian fans I recognize the proximity to the USA greatly helps our female athletes…
This is so dumb. It’s a great thing that competition is improving around the world and that generations of American feminists have helped raise standards for women in soccer around the world. If the current USWNT sees discrimination, then they should go after it regardless what anyone else thinks. The job is not done, far from it - domestically and abroad. And American women pushing forward will ultimately benefit the entire sport.

So congrats to Canada. I hope they win the gold for CONCACAF and you can get a grip.
 

teddykgb

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I think its a penalty. Are we sure the Canadian player isn't playing the ball? To my eyes, she beat the American player at the last second and was looking to seal off the defender while also controlling the ball to head towards the goal, and the American player was just trying to boot the ball away for a clearance. In this case, the faster and more aggressive player won the position and the American player definitely committed a foul in kicking her leg out from underneath her.
You can’t seal off a defender from behind them. It’s a bad call. We started to see this a bit in the Prem last season too and the rules need to be adapted because common sense no longer prevails. The attacker is wrong side and second to the ball and as long as I’ve watched or played this game that has always mattered. We cannot arrive at a situation where attackers can earn penalties by throwing limbs into a players kicking motion. There are versions of this where everything is in front of the defender and they make a bad choice and that needs to be penalized but the Canadian attacker is attempting to play the ball from behind the other player and is responsible for the subsequent contact. If anything it is a foul by her as she is preventing the completion of the kicking motion.
 

Kliq

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You can’t seal off a defender from behind them. It’s a bad call. We started to see this a bit in the Prem last season too and the rules need to be adapted because common sense no longer prevails. The attacker is wrong side and second to the ball and as long as I’ve watched or played this game that has always mattered. We cannot arrive at a situation where attackers can earn penalties by throwing limbs into a players kicking motion. There are versions of this where everything is in front of the defender and they make a bad choice and that needs to be penalized but the Canadian attacker is attempting to play the ball from behind the other player and is responsible for the subsequent contact. If anything it is a foul by her as she is preventing the completion of the kicking motion.
I disagree that she is behind her when she goes to seal off the ball, she is at least side-by-side with the defender and given the direction the ball was rolling, ended up actually in a position closer to the ball (the ball even hits her left shin!) when the foul is committed. It's a bang-bang play, but I think its clear that the US defender slowed up to make the clearance, while the Canadian player ran hard to the ball and by the time the foul is committed, has the superior position. She isn't on the wrong side and she isn't second to the ball.
 

BaseballJones

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I disagree that she is behind her when she goes to seal off the ball, she is at least side-by-side with the defender and given the direction the ball was rolling, ended up actually in a position closer to the ball (the ball even hits her left shin!) when the foul is committed. It's a bang-bang play, but I think its clear that the US defender slowed up to make the clearance, while the Canadian player ran hard to the ball and by the time the foul is committed, has the superior position. She isn't on the wrong side and she isn't second to the ball.
She's coming up on the defender's blind side. The defender starts the kicking motion and the attacker (moving very quickly) slides in front of her, but the defender had already started the kicking motion, and when she had, the defender was still just behind her. You can't fault the defender for contact that happens in that situation.

I don't think a foul should have been called on the attacker because she did hustle and get in front of her. You don't penalize her for that and call a foul on her. But you also don't call a foul on the defender who had superior position at the moment she started her kicking motion.
 

Silverdude2167

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I disagree that she is behind her when she goes to seal off the ball, she is at least side-by-side with the defender and given the direction the ball was rolling, ended up actually in a position closer to the ball (the ball even hits her left shin!) when the foul is committed. It's a bang-bang play, but I think its clear that the US defender slowed up to make the clearance, while the Canadian player ran hard to the ball and by the time the foul is committed, has the superior position. She isn't on the wrong side and she isn't second to the ball.
I will post this image again, the defender has already started her kicking motion in this screen cap. The Canidian player is cleraly behind her and iniating contact.

43125
 

teddykgb

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I disagree that she is behind her when she goes to seal off the ball, she is at least side-by-side with the defender and given the direction the ball was rolling, ended up actually in a position closer to the ball (the ball even hits her left shin!) when the foul is committed. It's a bang-bang play, but I think its clear that the US defender slowed up to make the clearance, while the Canadian player ran hard to the ball and by the time the foul is committed, has the superior position. She isn't on the wrong side and she isn't second to the ball.
This is tortured logic which defines possession as when the ball is contacted. Look at the screenshots by Silverdude above — she has her forearm in the small of the back of the defender and is causing the contact herself from behind. She is unquestionably wrong side in that moment. And the defender has possession well before the kicking motion — the player from Canada is always second to the ball and giving chase. It’s excellent hustle but she is never closer to the ball than the American player until after she has chosen to risk getting kicked. Much like in hockey, the Canadian player is the only one with perfect information and needs to be responsible for any contact which arises as she is the only person who can evaluate the situation
 

Kliq

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She's coming up on the defender's blind side. The defender starts the kicking motion and the attacker (moving very quickly) slides in front of her, but the defender had already started the kicking motion, and when she had, the defender was still just behind her. You can't fault the defender for contact that happens in that situation.

I don't think a foul should have been called on the attacker because she did hustle and get in front of her. You don't penalize her for that and call a foul on her. But you also don't call a foul on the defender who had superior position at the moment she started her kicking motion.
If the defender did her job properly, she would have sealed off the attacking player and either watched the ball roll out for a goal kick or cleared it away. Instead she slowed up before controlling the ball and left herself open to the Canadian player to end up in better position, which is why she ended up hacking her down.

This is tortured logic which defines possession as when the ball is contacted. Look at the screenshots by Silverdude above — she has her forearm in the small of the back of the defender and is causing the contact herself from behind. She is unquestionably wrong side in that moment. And the defender has possession well before the kicking motion — the player from Canada is always second to the ball and giving chase. It’s excellent hustle but she is never closer to the ball than the American player until after she has chosen to risk getting kicked. Much like in hockey, the Canadian player is the only one with perfect information and needs to be responsible for any contact which arises as she is the only person who can evaluate the situation
She is not entitled to possession before she even touches the ball; she ends up being late because she went to wind up to boot the ball away, instead of trying to take a touch or seal off the attacker. She SHOULD have had possession and she SHOULD have won the ball, but unfortunately she made mistake in leaving herself open to the attacking player overtaking her possession at the last moment and drawing the penalty. This is pretty cut-and-dry, but I'm not going to die on this hill.
 

Ale Xander

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Sick to my stomach

but they were awful (compared to what they should be) in 4 of 5 games.

No SOG until 65:00. Need more Carlis out there

Don’t know if it’s the coaching, but no willingness or ability to go 1v1was annoying as f
 

Arroyo Con Frijoles

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She is not entitled to possession before she even touches the ball;
Isn't she? If not a lot of the logic surrounding defenders sealing off attackers goes out the window, I think. Because otherwise it's just a player body blocking an opponent while not in possession.
 

Kliq

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Isn't she? If not a lot of the logic surrounding defenders sealing off attackers goes out the window, I think. Because otherwise it's just a player body blocking an opponent while not in possession.
Not in this scenario, she doesn't clearly have possession or position imo, it's still a 50/50 ball, which is why the Canadian player ends up in front of her.
 

tmracht

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This is tortured logic which defines possession as when the ball is contacted. Look at the screenshots by Silverdude above — she has her forearm in the small of the back of the defender and is causing the contact herself from behind. She is unquestionably wrong side in that moment. And the defender has possession well before the kicking motion — the player from Canada is always second to the ball and giving chase. It’s excellent hustle but she is never closer to the ball than the American player until after she has chosen to risk getting kicked. Much like in hockey, the Canadian player is the only one with perfect information and needs to be responsible for any contact which arises as she is the only person who can evaluate the situation
I agree I missed the game so only saw the highlights a little while ago. There is no way this is the defenders fault. To award a penalty is beyond harsh. If this was her marshalling it out and she gets a forearm to the back and uses that to sling herself around front isn't that always call for the defender. To allow the forearm mid backswing then allow the attacker to jump into the path of the kick and then give a penalty is really awful.
Not in this scenario, she doesn't clearly have possession or position imo, it's still a 50/50 ball, which is why the Canadian player ends up in front of her.
Doesn't she gain the position advantage by just being able to bomb into the defender without a real plan?
 

Ale Xander

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Hoping Foudy sees the replays a few more times and changes her mind so I can get angry at the ref (who is Ukrainian iiirc which adds to my anger) but as of the halftime of the Sweden Australia game she said it was a penalty by the rules.
I’m not going to argue it’s a horrendous call if she says it isn’t. if Dahlkemper is in, I think we’re still playing. I do hope every single player tells Davidson it’s not her fault.

eric cartman was right
And F the replayification of sports.
 

Ale Xander

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Fucking rights. It 4:30 am here.
I waited a lot longer for the SOx to beat the Yankees. But this is right up there.
I hope the USA women are happy the rest of the world is catching up. It is hard to describe how hated they were in countries where women don't even get to play, and players had to fundraise/borrow money to get to the world cup when they complained about their share, what they got for money.

USA still has huge advantage, and the NCAA trained most of if not all our team.

Unlike other Canadian fans I recognize the proximity to the USA greatly helps our female athletes, since despite best efforts sports participation is still skewed heavily in favor of boys, so due to title 9 many more Canadian women are on USA teams than emn, though hockey and GTA hoops mitigates that's gap a bit.

USA olympic media is as bad as Canadian hockey coverage, and you can check I complain about the homerism on TSN in world juniors.
USA it appears has already caught and passed Canada in hockey.

But this is great. I hope Hope Solo bet the last of her meth money on USA this game.
Because of this post I’m rooting for Sweden. Especially since they have been the clear best team in the tournament.
 

reggiecleveland

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Because of this post I’m rooting for Sweden. Especially since they have been the clear best team in the tournament.
As would have I had the USA won.

Anyway reading twitter USA lost because of their support for BLM. Rapinoe's classy actions and comments post loss are also refreshing.

I would think a group of Red Sox fans would understand people cheering against an overwhelming, arrogant, overdog. I know I have met americans who were shocked Canadians cheer for their own athletes over the USA, but not expecting it around here.

As I said have a personal connection to a player that was screwed out of chance at gold in 2012, that was a better team, that would have probably won gold. As mentioned here neither of these teams has played well.
 
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cromulence

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As would have I had the USA won.

Anyway reading twitter USA lost because of their support for BLM. Rapinoe's classy actions and comments post loss are also refreshing.

I would think a group of Red Sox fans would understand people cheering against an overwhelming, arrogant, overdog. I know I have met americans who were shocked Canadians cheer for their own athletes over the USA, but not expecting it around here.

As I said have a personal connection to a player that was screwed out of chance at gold in 2012, that was a better team, that would have probably won gold. As mentioned here neither of these teams has played well.
What are you even doing? You come in here after a painful and somewhat controversial loss and proceed to rub it in everyone's faces while calling the American team and their fans arrogant? Maybe just fuck off and enjoy your win because this is a bad look for you.
 

Kliq

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Rubbing in your victory in the faces of fans of other teams is a time-honored tradition on SoSH. If there was a Canadian women's national team thread he could post in there, I guess.
 

Ale Xander

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Rubbing in your victory in the faces of fans of other teams is a time-honored tradition on SoSH. If there was a Canadian women's national team thread he could post in there, I guess.
Can’t wait for the hockey and curling threads for the Winter Games.
 

reggiecleveland

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Can’t wait for the hockey and curling threads for the Winter Games.
Canada deserves what it gets in hockey. Our TSN World Juniors coverage level is Bob Costas 'just divide Michael Johnson's 200m time in 2 and you see he is faster than Donavon Bailey' level biased and stupid. (I mean in aggragte, that is the single dumbest sports comment I have heard on air) USA will dominate amateur international hockey male and female for the foreseeable future. When I went to Disney in Californie when my kid was 10 there were more kids signed up for hockey in our little city in canada than in all of California. He is 19 and I expect he will still be in college when the number of hockey players in just LA passes all of Western Canada. USA is the future of hockey. There is time coming when the USA has maybe 10 times more kids playing hockey. Not only that their system of college hockey identifies players better than our system, where how good you are at age 14 is what matters. I am resigned to USA dominating hockey, and we will be like England in soccer talking about how we invented the game but never winning anything.

Of course pretty good chance after you guys let your democracy slip away I will suffer unspeakable retribution at some point.
Rubbing in your victory in the faces of fans of other teams is a time-honored tradition on SoSH. If there was a Canadian women's national team thread he could post in there, I guess.
Thanks.
I recall we had a thread where we joined NYYfans in 04. My user names was 'chokahs'
 
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67YAZ

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If anyone is watching Japan-Spain right now, the opposite foul just occurred - Spain’s Merino was readying to shoot when Japan’s Yoshida slid in from behind to nip the ball in the box. Merino kicks Yosida in the calf instead of getting the ball. Ref originally calls a PK and yellow on Yoshida, but reverses it all after a VAR check. Good call today.

Edit: this is an excellent 0-0 match in the 92nd minute right now. An extra 30 will be welcome viewing, though I don’t know how these guys are still running.
 
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DJnVa

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I would think a group of Red Sox fans would understand people cheering against an overwhelming, arrogant, overdog.
The judges were looking for "Patriots fans".

At no point, even in 2018 when they crushed everyone, were the Sox an arrogant overdog. That's silly.
 

Kliq

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The judges were looking for "Patriots fans".

At no point, even in 2018 when they crushed everyone, were the Sox an arrogant overdog. That's silly.
He's talking about the Yankees, not the Red Sox.
 

Section30

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Watching the tepid performance by the US team in this competition I have to wonder if it is complacency ? Aging team ? Coaching ? . They are looking like just another good team rather than the best on the field.

Overall I think the top European teams have improved to the point where they could win any given match against the US. I see the US as kind of like the Brazilian mens team. Looked at as a top team but not dominating any more. I say this as the changing of the guard that is about to occur with several probable retirements in the offing.

People will argue and point to the last fifty game record put up by the team. But so many of those wins were against the minnows and teams on the decline like Mexico.

I hope I am wrong and that the next generation of players will come through and keep the high standards, but it is a much more level playing field now.
 

teddykgb

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The USA started from such a strong position relative to the world and it showed. Most of the world have made huge investments in professional-izing the women’s game and it is hardly a surprise that the US team can no longer show up and expect to dominate. This is a good thing overall and the Us team is well positioned to stay a powerhouse but the complete domination of the sport is probably gone forever unless women’s club football fizzles out for some reason.
 

Kliq

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That's dumb. Yankees suck. Always have.
No, I mean Reggie is saying that he thinks Red Sox fans, due to their years of experience of rooting against the arrogant Yankees, would understand what it's like to see that kind of opponent beaten.
 

DJnVa

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No, I mean Reggie is saying that he thinks Red Sox fans, due to their years of experience of rooting against the arrogant Yankees, would understand what it's like to see that kind of opponent beaten.
Yes, I get that. Now. Earlier was pre-coffee.

I'm saying all references to Yankees are dumb. On principle.
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
And now Australia shank a clearance right to Rapinoe for a sweet volley. 2-1 USA.

The first 20 minutes of this game have been more entertaining than the rest of the tournament combined.
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
Lloyd with a great goal in first half stoppage time to make it 3-1. Maybe the team's age isn't really a problem after all.
 

Batman Likes The Sox

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That was a wildly different game than the 0-0, though I suppose understandable given the tie outcome they needed in that one. But everyone's play was so much more alive in this one. It was much more like how we saw the team play twice in person in Hartford at the send off.

Thankful for the medal after less than ideal play by USWNT in this olympics and looking forward to the team reboot. Lots of fun players to watch coming up in NWSL.

Looks like the gold medal match has been moved and given their play in this tournament looking forward to Sweden getting their gold.

Canada was the worst team of the four entering the semis but I presume somebody will put a silver around the neck of the VAR after the final.
 

67YAZ

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That was wildly entertaining. Both teams just went for it. Fun!

A Megan Rapinoe appreciation - has there ever been an athlete who steps up bigger? Gets called out by the President, bangs in 2. Faces the media honestly and thoroughly after an Olympic loss, bangs in 2. And at the final whistles today, she had the biggest smile - she was joyful, where took many of her teammates were muted. Rapinoe is just incredible and will be sorely missed whenever she decides to leave the game.
 
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Batman Likes The Sox

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It took 20 minutes or so, but the incredibly boring style of play from Canada was finally broken down by Sweden who dominated the rest of the time and is leading into the half 1-0. Makes it clear that Sweden was better than the U.S. and I think would have won the gold no matter what. U.S. couldn't figure out the Canada style (though they clearly outplayed Canada, who needed a penalty to advance). I still stand by Canada being the weakest team among the last four - Sweden have to be thrilled with the draw.

Should be a straightforward second half, but you never know, the VAR is still active.