Has Berhalter’s teams beaten any team they weren’t supposed to? Feel like the team has slipped back into mediocrity in the past two cycles.. to a team that you never expect to beat a quality opponent.
USMNT Summer 2024: Beauty is in the Eye of the Berhalter
- Thread starter rguilmar
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The one legitimate exception was probably the 2021 Gold Cup, beating an A team Mexico with a B team US squad was a genuine surprise, regardless of Mexico's diminishment (they were also at least somewhat less diminished at the time than now).
Non-Mexico, nope. He's had less opportunity to do so between UEFA locking itself into its Nations' Leagues and CONCACAF following suit (also COVID), but he has certainly taken none of the opportunity he has been given.
Non-Mexico, nope. He's had less opportunity to do so between UEFA locking itself into its Nations' Leagues and CONCACAF following suit (also COVID), but he has certainly taken none of the opportunity he has been given.
From the Nations League final in 2021, I had a microscopic but real hope we could straight up win the WC at home, projecting the group’s best-case growth over the 5 year ramp up. Last night buried that for good. So, if we can’t win playing the “better” way, I’m down to switch it up and at least make things interesting heading into 2026.
I guess it’s nostalgia, but I kinda want the US to go back to being a stalwart defensive / all hustle / lethal countering team. I embraced the possession concept as our players’ talent level has grown, but we plateaued somewhere. Perhaps we can modulate it. Play possession against teams we should beat; mix in more old-school American countering against the ones we shouldn’t. I miss Landon against Brazil in the Confed, Landon against Algeria in the WC, Charlie Davies in Azteca (!), Sanneh to McBride v Portugal and Landon vs MX in 2002. Understood that it’s a tactical step back, but can we do it a bit more without giving up a modern approach? And maybe do it even better, since we have more sophisticated players? What are the other options if the current approach isn’t going to get it done?
I actually think this squad would be good at the lightning counter - that sequence that led to Haji’s (glacier-slow) shot combined a bunch of really clever one-touch passes to find him. Combine that with people running into the ball and into open space on the break and we have… something? We still have a pretty young squad who can motor. Robinson would be a menace. It also plays to Turner’s strengths - I don’t really want to watch him with the ball at his feat as the anchor of our offense in 2026. Just let him be a stopper.
If a genius manager, a bunch of training time and an abundance of great pre-WC matches fall out of the sky, sure, build up the possession-based approach the right way. If not… let’s go old school? Not trying to be regressive, I just want that puncher’s chance against any team. I don’t think we really have that now.
I guess it’s nostalgia, but I kinda want the US to go back to being a stalwart defensive / all hustle / lethal countering team. I embraced the possession concept as our players’ talent level has grown, but we plateaued somewhere. Perhaps we can modulate it. Play possession against teams we should beat; mix in more old-school American countering against the ones we shouldn’t. I miss Landon against Brazil in the Confed, Landon against Algeria in the WC, Charlie Davies in Azteca (!), Sanneh to McBride v Portugal and Landon vs MX in 2002. Understood that it’s a tactical step back, but can we do it a bit more without giving up a modern approach? And maybe do it even better, since we have more sophisticated players? What are the other options if the current approach isn’t going to get it done?
I actually think this squad would be good at the lightning counter - that sequence that led to Haji’s (glacier-slow) shot combined a bunch of really clever one-touch passes to find him. Combine that with people running into the ball and into open space on the break and we have… something? We still have a pretty young squad who can motor. Robinson would be a menace. It also plays to Turner’s strengths - I don’t really want to watch him with the ball at his feat as the anchor of our offense in 2026. Just let him be a stopper.
If a genius manager, a bunch of training time and an abundance of great pre-WC matches fall out of the sky, sure, build up the possession-based approach the right way. If not… let’s go old school? Not trying to be regressive, I just want that puncher’s chance against any team. I don’t think we really have that now.
It would be pretty dumb if true, because there are zero American players who are going to do much to move the needle financially. Of course, lots of clubs do dumb stuff all the time, but it's not like Chelsea or AC Milan have made a fortune selling Pulisic shirts to Americans. The key thing that clubs need to understand is that soccer still isn't that popular in the US, and — more importantly — most soccer fans in the US are not specifically fans of American soccer in a general sense. Even most posters on this board aren't really fans of American soccer in any sense broader than watching the national teams at summer tournaments and in WCQ.
I don't think it's that weird that Barcelona bought Dest. They have deep links to Ajax and often go shopping there. Dest has unique attributes as an attacking right back; he's the sauciest player who ever put on a US shirt. They were hoping that he'd iron out his mental lapses in defense. He didn't address a key weakness and got shipped out, which is a common story. Likewise, I often see Juventus presented as a bridge too far for McKennie. He's played nearly 7,000 Serie A minutes for them and started most games last season. The new coach doesn't want him and is trying to get rid of him, but it's not like he's in a zip code where he can't hang.
One of the other issues is the financial realities of the game. Going to England is bad for a lot of players at certain stages of their careers, but the EPL has an obscene amount of money and it's difficult for club and player to turn down EPL offers. The rising strength of MLS both on and off the field has taken a lot of second-tier league clubs off the table as possible destinations. Most Portuguese and Dutch clubs are far too financially weak to afford the prices commanded by MLS pros and prospects, so it's Ajax/PSV/Feyenoord/Porto/Benfica/Sporting plus a small handful of others, or nothing at all in those leagues.
The last spanner in the works has been that the market price for American players has been in flux. MLS and American prospects have always been fodder for bargain basement shopping, but the emergence of a new wave of bigger American talents and interesting younger foreign players in MLS changed that. Since so many club decision-makers mimic trends, this predictably spun a little out of control and you had deals like Pepi's $20m move to Augsburg or Reynolds' $11m move to Roma. There were a few too many deals that didn't pay off, and combined with the financial hit that clubs took due to COVID, the market adjusted once again. Top American prospects and good MLS players are still too expensive for a lot of second-tier league clubs (which is not necessarily a problem since these are the sorts of clubs that by and large are not better than MLS competition), but I don't think we'll see as many silly overreach deals.
Yes to all of this. I see the argument that teams buy US players for marketing purposes all the time, especially for El Tri fans, but it doesn’t make any sense. Teams have to operate under strict financial rules, and wasting money on transfers that don’t pay off is bad for business. Many teams in Europe are scrambling to be financially allowed to register players before each season kicks off. It can cost a team tens of millions of Euros or Pounds by dropping points. Imagine signing a player because they’re American then getting relegated or missing out on the UCL? This is how executives get fired. And what is the benefit financially? Where are the studies that show Americans spend more money on jerseys or tickets or whatever? What is the financial gain here?
Aside from a Ricardo Pepi to Augsburg move, I don’t see it.
Strong work in this thread. Keep it going.
Also, w/r/t Dest signing at Barca, I agree with the assessment that it made sense in footballing terms even if it was a longshot bet. The club paid (E)21M which isn't huge money (especially for Barca in 2020) for a promising player with a skillset highly in demand by major clubs throughout Europe. He had just broken thru at Ajax in the COVID-shortened '19-'20 season, and was a stapled on starter alongside Tadic, Lisandro Martinez, Tagliafico,
Very reasonable rejoinder TB. Thanks for your insight as always.
As an Arsenal fan, I may be too impacted by the Matt Turner experience, which continues to leave our fanbase befuddled. But its probably not that wise to draw big conclusions from decision making around backup keepers.
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Honestly surprising. It took 3 days, I assume because leadership absolutely opposed a statement and was finally worn down by membership anger. I was at 100% Gregg would be retained, but if AO which is a complete lapdog for the Fed is coming out I will drop it to 85% Gregg is retained.
Guys, Tim Howard has a plan.
View: https://twitter.com/timhowardgk/status/1808526683785568615?s=46&t=GfuLFvTYcOxcFiCZjyIYZw
View: https://twitter.com/timhowardgk/status/1808526683785568615?s=46&t=GfuLFvTYcOxcFiCZjyIYZw
I still don't buy it. But Tim can have a chat with Jurgen, then when he says no he can pop over to the UK and see if his former Everton manager wants the job. For all his flaws (and my personal distaste for watching him manage my club).... that is probably the best manager you could get, and a pragmatic counter-attacking mentality is what the USMNT probably needs to have success against WC competition
It’s sort of the main problem facing the US manager, right? You need to have a system to dominate concacaf teams who are going to thug it up and bunker down but need to have a team and system to play an entirely different way because your talent exists in an uncanny valley of being way too good for the vast majority of your federation matches and nowhere near good enough to dominate outside of it. Probably similar problems exist in Asia/Africa and maybe even managers with experience in those federations could be sneaky good candidates
I think a mid-table stalwart EPL type manager works for that valley. Moyes, Allardyce even... the type who built their careers on beating the teams they have more talent than, and hanging around with the teams that are far more talented. The kind of manager who knows you move on by beating Bournemouth 3-0 and just gutting out the point at Anfield.
But mid table EPL managers probably get paid way too much and can’t run the reputation risk of crashing and burning in a mid to lower mid tier international job
Salary is a good point, I had thought Moyes made around 3M, but it was 4M... USMNT probably pays somewhere between 2 and 2.5M to the next guy given Berhalter is supposedly on 1.6 that can be up to 2.2M.
For reputation risk.... nah, I don't mean the guys in their 40s, we're talking 60+ year olds who have managed a whole lot of clubs and are getting ready for the step back. If Moyes or Allardyce came here and we flopped out at the groups..... everyone would say "Those Yanks are so overrated", because they know what Moyes is... he's been successful at multiple PL clubs, he took Everton to Europe, he won a Euro Cup with West Ham.
It was about Bum Phillips, but your point stands - Berhalter is the opposite of that.
My goodness, this is funny. I am on the subway platform and randos are wondering why I'm giggling.
That's Sean Dyche's music, but you'll get him away from the blue half of Merseyside over my corpse only.
A few reports that I’ve seen on Twitter:
- Doug McIntyre says that pay equity between Emma Hayes and a hypothetical Berhalter replacement is not an issue.
- Jonathan Tannenwald says that Crocker has free rein and that the USSF board will not interfere with his decision to keep or fire Berhalter.
Berhalter’s top assistant was just announced as Nashville’s new manager. No tea leaves here though — Callaghan had been a done deal and they were just waiting for the US to be done with the Copa to make the announcement.
- Doug McIntyre says that pay equity between Emma Hayes and a hypothetical Berhalter replacement is not an issue.
- Jonathan Tannenwald says that Crocker has free rein and that the USSF board will not interfere with his decision to keep or fire Berhalter.
Berhalter’s top assistant was just announced as Nashville’s new manager. No tea leaves here though — Callaghan had been a done deal and they were just waiting for the US to be done with the Copa to make the announcement.
Does anyone have a sense about whether USSF is likely to make/lose money on the World Cup?
2026 is a massive opportunity that the USMNT cannot afford to screw up. If that means overpaying for the right coach to lead the team for the next two years, pull the trigger.
2026 is a massive opportunity that the USMNT cannot afford to screw up. If that means overpaying for the right coach to lead the team for the next two years, pull the trigger.
Likely make money. The US has pretty consistently been one of the few countries to make profits on these things (WC/Olympics) because everything is built already.
I mean.. they can totally afford it.. they’ve seemed to be happy with mediocrity for years.. rehiring ggg is a thing that happens nowhere else in the world.. never in a country serious about the sport. I don’t trust the people that brought him back to be the ones to select his replacement. They go with him into the next World Cup? The results will be as low as can be expected… I’d be surprised to see them get out of the group stages. The players seem too fat and happy with ggg as manager.
I believe the answer is “make money, but (percentagewise at least) not as much as last time”. I feel like I read somewhere that WC ‘94 was so good for USSF that it was one of the inciting events for international bodies like FIFA and the IOC to start taking a tighter grip on the process of hosting this stuff and take more of the money.
There are a lot of USSF stakeholders with vested interests in it going well. The MLS people want the game to keep growing in interest in the US, ECNL clubs and the like want a newer bigger wave of kids to be inspired and overpay for travel teams, etc.
Yes. This is a once every 40 years situation. If you’re the USSF, this is what you’re waiting for. Go all out. Inspire Americans to care by any/every means possible. I’m actually kind of shocked there’s not an existing plan to get a high-level manager in for the two years leading up to the Cup.
2026 is so simple if you’re the USSF. Get to the semis, you elevate the sport here permanently. Fail to get out of your group, and you set the program back by a decade or so. In between, status quo but with an undercurrent of disappointment. Spend every cent you can on the best possible outcome. There will never be a higher-leverage opportunity.
Lots of rumors floating around right now that he’s officially out. Keep waiting for it to be not rumors.
I don’t think even in a mythical world where you can get Pep or Klopp you can guarantee or even near guarantee getting out of a World Cup group right now. They can’t seriously plan for the semis, that would be an outrageous success. This “golden generation” has basically only beaten Mexico when Mexico has turned into Jamaica
I don’t think even in a mythical world where you can get Pep or Klopp you can guarantee or even near guarantee getting out of a World Cup group right now. They can’t seriously plan for the semis, that would be an outrageous success. This “golden generation” has basically only beaten Mexico when Mexico has turned into Jamaica
I think this is what you are saying but just to be clear, the line - He can take his'n and beat your'n, then he can take your'n and beat his'n - was allegedly uttered by Bum Phillips about either Bear Bryant or Don Shula, depending on which source you go to.
I’m heartened that Crocker made a home run hire with Hayes. The USWNT is in a very different a situation and Hayes was looking for a national team gig, but Crocker got it done quietly and quickly. He clearly erred with rehiring Gregg, but I’m hopeful. He can do this.
I mean... he also spent like $800k on a search firm to justify hiring Gregg as his first move.
I put no faith in a guy because he had by far the most attractive job AND by far the most money to spend, and was able to entice a great hire. If the USMNT were the best team in the world and the budget for men's coach was $30M or something... that would be the equivalent
I absolutely remember hearing him say it about Shula. Just learned, per Wikipedia, that he also said it about Bryant.
Thing about USSF is... expect complete and utter incompetence... that way if you get only kinda incompetent it's a nice pleasant surprise!
Klopp is either trolling us or angling for the job.
https://twiter.com/meninblazers/status/1808897905312551352?s=46&t=GfuLFvTYcOxcFiCZjyIYZw
https://twiter.com/meninblazers/status/1808897905312551352?s=46&t=GfuLFvTYcOxcFiCZjyIYZw
US Soccer turned off replies on their happy 4th tweet because every time they tweet all the responses are fire Gregg
…and where they go we’ll follow…
They missed an huge opportunity to potentially explode the team fan base by millions of fans. Between getting grouped in Copa and getting humiliated by Columbia all with very little sports media viewing competition, this has got to be an epic nut punch for sponsors and Fox itself.
Numbers were good but the outcomes not so much.
https://www.si.com/soccer/usmnt-drew-massive-copa-america-ratings-but-thats-over-now
The fact that they pissed away a huge Saturday night post-July 4th match against a major South American nation has got to be killing everyone involved on the marketing side of things.
I'm typically a shit poster so I'll try to actually make a good post for once.
Yes, I think the shift is actually starting to change in this country. Back in 03-07 when I'd say I was doing podcasts and radio in Providence covering the Revs/MLS/USMNT the looks were kind of haha, that's cute. Our pay was hilarious bad, an hour on a Sunday evening at WPRI got us $50 bucks and my friend and his dad were producing the whole show. It was always a very antagonistic amount of support when I'd say I wanted to do soccer media back then. My blog posts were usually "too technical" or "boring." I was asked why I don't write more about the time I got to interview players or go to closed scrimmages or things that I really didn't have much interest in writing which is fine, but the interest wasn't in the sport, but more in the drama (don't get me wrong soccer is dripping with drama).
However now, the ground swell is changing, people at work are asking me about Copa, about Euros, about the teams I wear on casual Fridays. I think the lead in to the World Cup had a real chance to really pop this thing open. I don't think one Copa result will tank that mindset, but a disaster in 2 years will be crippling. A lot of "casuals" really bought into the narrative of the US got screwed by the ref so that buys a little bit of good will. But we need to make a change at the top. The team doesn't have an identifiable identity moving into the World Cup. We don't have a narrative or vision to sell. Are we a possession based team that can't score, that won't play in the media. Look at the articles from 2002, cohesive and spirited, encouraging ability to score goals (https://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/26/sports/world-cup-2002-no-looking-back-for-americans.html).
The team under Gregg doesn't have that definitive characteristic, they don't have a signature win, they don't have a calling card. You can say that's not the point, but when you have big, big, money riding on this World Cup, when Fox pays $425M for the 2023 WWC, and the 2026 MWC, there is going to be a huge amount of pressure for the US to have a good tournament. As much as the players like him, I don't see how Gregg handles the media storm leading into the World Cup. But yeah, in terms of money and support this is a huge moment, hopefully it doesn't take a consulting firm 2 years to decide Gregg's the choice.
BJ Callahan leaving for another job sucks. Honestly, I would have been fine with him taking over permanently. He did a really solid job after Berhalter was temporarily fired. The idea of Berhalter being retained after losing his top man is too much to fathom.
I get it that this has been planned for awhile but I firmly believe that this team is worse off without Callahan on the bench and Berhalter still here, and that’s a very scary thing to consider. How much lower could this whole thing go?
I get it that this has been planned for awhile but I firmly believe that this team is worse off without Callahan on the bench and Berhalter still here, and that’s a very scary thing to consider. How much lower could this whole thing go?
Ecuador sacked their coach hours after going toe to toe with Argentina and losing in penalties and our braintrust are probably looking at flow charts.
Without comment on whether your other posts are shitposting or not*, I think you’re 100% dead on. The hook for the casual isn’t there, whether it’s a storyline, a style of play or identity on the pitch, or a star -Pusilic is a very good player and not without charisma but he is not a STAR.
A manager can’t spin gossamer to create magic where there isn’t any but a manager can at least get the outfit into form, mentally, and have them all pulling on the oars in unison, from which wins would presumably follow, and winning cures all ills.
Gregg doesn’t do those things. Ergo goodbye Gregg.
Is it possible(likely) that they are doing backchannel inquiries into some of the high profile guys on this boards list like Klopp to see if there is any reciprocal interest before bagging Berholter. I also read a report that Klopp made about 20 mill per year with his club team. If true, do we really expect him to sign on to the US job for maybe say 3 mill?